Ops, again, please.

[Butterdoll]

8 hours ago, JapLance said:

Just for curiosity, in one of the games I was sunk before the end I did take some screenshots of the bot ships to check what signal flags were they flying.

 

Battleships: India Delta (+repair), Sierra Mike (+speed), Juliet Charlie ( no detonation), Hotel Yankee (+ramming)

Cruisers: India X-ray (+fire), Victor Lima (+fire), Sierra Mike (+speed)

 

thank you

 

I got a lot of damage that wouldn't get in the past against cruisers

and after I make the bbs blow the repair party and manage to set perma fires on them, they didn't last for long.

 

[Aragathor]

Well after trying ops several time after the change, I must say the way the bots have been programmed, I'd rather take on a super unicum division in Randoms. Alone, in a stock ship, with a captain in retraining. Because I have a better chance against them.

Ops have lost any of the fun factor they had for me. Getting melted when spotted for low reward is not how I want to spend my time.

 

I really hope that the changes to the bots herald the removal of scenarios.

[EdiJo]

On 10.05.2018 at 12:12 AM, Sargento_YO said:

Usually I get 4 - 5 stars when I play with Ryujo.

I sink the first Furutaka, then hammer the Myogi,

Sure, sure. 

Quote

send planes to south, attack Zuiho (sometimes I need two waves to sink it).

I HATE when CV does that. You are very very good with carriers, yet you "sometimes" have to allow Zuiho to live for the second cycle. As soon as he's spotted he starts sending torpedo bombers at escorted vessels! And when cruisers are busy either defending vs planes or trying to kill ships YOU triggered, there is not enough fast shooting ships to kill the frontally attacking DD and cruisers. Also cruisers don't have time to position for healing!

Perfect recipe for at least losing a star, and quite often a game. 

Imagine "average Steve" in his CV taking your above "recipe" and trying to do that. I've seen that many times - his planes are decimated and Zuiho is torping ships from the side, while DD murder from the front. NO. DON'T SPOT ZUIHO. He can be perfectly easy and harmlessly killed later, in the corner. 

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Then move the carrier AHEAD of Raptor (it's much more desireable that I got sunk instead of Raptor, which is an instant lose), send the planes to sink one of the dds on the middle of the map (usually here is where we lose a star because the second dd sometimes launches its torpedoes and sinks one of the support ships),

i wonder why cruisers can't kill 2 little DD... Maybe they are busy with the mess you did earlier, hm? 

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sink second dd, stop waves from enemy Ryujo, attack and sink Ryujo, attack and sink the last wave of ships and still go ahead of Raptor to outrun it.

 

Rinse and repeat.

If it works well, i.e. IF you kill Zuiho fast enough that he doesn't torp anything important, IF cruisers are not distracted enough to allow DD to torp, IF you are not killed by bots which finally start shooting at you when cruisers are too far... Lotsa IF's 

 

Why not just support the main direction, LEAVE THE ZUIHO INACTIVE, kill DD, cruisers and Ryujo first, and only then activate Zuiho and kill him?

This way you don't have to fight another Minekaze and Kuma in the most critical moment of the scenario (middle DD attack) and have cruisers positioned to heal themselves and protect escorted ships.

18 hours ago, Yedwy said:

I really dont get how u re supposed to get 5 stars in this "Defence of the Newport station" maybee only by incredible bout of dumb blind luck becouse that (3rd i think) wave of ships (the one with nurnberg in it) usually brakes the line and u re screwed. Winning in itself while far from certain isnt really a problem but stars...

I just played it one single time and we had 2 full potato ships (1 Farragut which ate Kuma torp right from the 1st wave and inactive Bayern which survived) - but the remaining ships (Mex - scored 1st!, 2 Cleves, Budyo and Nurnberg) managed to score 5 stars loosing only 1 Cleveland which had to brawl the Izumo at 3-5km distance...

We did it even despite bloody 2 cruisers spawned right 5km from the Lexington in that isolated bay and we barely managed to rescue the poor fella. 

It is possible to win, although you have to MOVE to keep bot waves out of the harbor and keep them focusing you and not forts. Forts - if survive - are great in killing bot DD.

 

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IE tried with Ryujo and simply cant strike fast enogh, to kill them off, not to mention that hiryu coming later has aa cover for his planes and twice as many fighters up as u have, independence strikes even slower then that so not worth trying it, might as well take AS Ryujo and at least have air control... With cruisers u are not tough enough to stop them all they bleed u to death and bbs (even dunq) are just to slow to reposition properly and shoot to inacuratley to stop all those dds pushing in.

All depends on number of brains in the team. You don't have to kill CV - just spot him so BB or maybe some Budyonny takes him down. 

In my today's game a slow Mex managed to do 5 kills and scored first. 

Quote

 

Edit:

Managed those 5 stars, but barley - took me like 7-8 attempts.

Yup, it is roulette.

1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Well after trying ops several time after the change, I must say the way the bots have been programmed, I'd rather take on a super unicum division in Randoms. Alone, in a stock ship, with a captain in retraining. Because I have a better chance against them.

Ops have lost any of the fun factor they had for me. Getting melted when spotted for low reward is not how I want to spend my time.

In T6 scenarios is not so hard. But when they get T7+ ships it starts to be less funny. 

Quote

I really hope that the changes to the bots herald the removal of scenarios.

For me it would be enough to tune down this bot cheating mechanisms (they always know where you are and pre-aim guns), make focusing more random (now they focused the weakest human all at once without mercy) - and it should be fine. 

 

Yesterday I tried to exp Gaede in Raptor scenario - and I did very stupid thing. I smoked up near the path of Aoba + Kuma pair to do some torp ambush + AP hits. Kuma suddenly turned and just directly charged me as I would be plainly visible, avoided both of my torpedo salvos and gunned + torped me down in seconds without any problem. It wasn't bot, it was a unicum Kuma with added perma radar and sonar, and only kept himself from shooting me "before real spotting" to pretend he did not see me 

[Aragathor]

26 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

In T6 scenarios is not so hard. But when they get T7+ ships it starts to be less funny. 

Try playing the Defense of Newport. The first three waves just go through the defenders like a hot knife through butter. That's what happens when the aim assist is combined with 19p captains and flags.

 

27 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

For me it would be enough to tune down this bot cheating mechanisms (they always know where you are and pre-aim guns), make focusing more random (now they focused the weakest human all at once without mercy) - and it should be fine.

Maybe. But the whole bot behavior should be reworked. Because as they are right now they outfight average players.

[MoveZig]

3 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Try playing the Defense of Newport. The first three waves just go through the defenders like a hot knife through butter. That's what happens when the aim assist is combined with 19p captains and flags.

 

A bit overblown. I've been farming it on every t6 ship I have wih the +200% and have not lost a match yet. 3 stars minimum each game. Though actually killing everything in time is very spotty, so 3-4 stars is most common. Having lots of Cleves and Leanders helps.

[DanteriusHB]

On 6.5.2018 at 8:22 PM, nambr9 said:

Bots are cheating :)

 

Try a DD ... as soon as you are spotted on the start (the exact same moment) every bot has its gun facing you and shoots you with deadly accuracy.

I like some challenge, but this is just BS.

i try to point that out since ages.

try a DD vs CV in testroom and sail complete away from cap and co. the planes will fly straight at you, like the bot knows your location from the start.

[Hyperion84]

On 5/6/2018 at 7:08 PM, TigerMoth said:

They made the bots better than their player base - which is not hard to do, to be honest.

Seems to me many players are bots themselves, mindlessly driving around spaming HE only and broadsiding enemy ships.

 

But yeah it's really surprising so many players have zero or almost none-existent learning curve

On 5/6/2018 at 8:22 PM, nambr9 said:

Bots are cheating :)

 

Try a DD ... as soon as you are spotted on the start (the exact same moment) every bot has its gun facing you and shoots you with deadly accuracy.

I like some challenge, but this is just BS.

Well I've used destroyers (Gnevny) in ops a couple of times, yes, you will get focused hard if you don't disengage or at least wait until the bots engage other players - once another player has taken damage, then it seems bots focus more on the player then destroyer itself. Also if they keep missing you due to maneuvers that's quite possible if you engage enemies at max range, then they actually stop shooting at you, at least for a moment giving you ample chance to put dish out some fires . 

 

Also thus far, I have survived all my ops in RU Destroyers. But I will taking it into combat some more this weekend for seeing how it perform in defense of Newport. In rescue Raptor it was not half bad, so I have high expectations.

[NothingButTheRain]

I always cry a little when I see a DD in ops 

"But I'm good with DD!" yes maybe, but you'd be even more better if you had taken a CL 

or a CA or BB or a CV 

 

And whatsnot, other more new players will see this and start thinking "Hey, I'll bring all my 3pt captain stock DDs into operations too!" yes very much funny.

 

So far Defend seems to be operating normally, kinda like it used to. It does seem to require more good players and imo for the Defend scenario, DPM >> everything!

So don't bring puny gunned DDs and don't die (also don't sacrifice before the final assault, it's better to then let them penetrate the green boundary).

And all stay withing the green circle. At the final assault all cruisers should go into the repair areas. BBs are more free to roam around a bit more but BBs that do that I do see dying a lot (I mean a LOT! Almost always do they end up dying but I think the CLs are more important in the end bit anyway due to their firepower and consumables and perhaps speed to quickly kill the last CV).

 

This operation is also good for CVs and for some reason I perform better with Ryujo here then I did at Raptor.

 

I think this ops has good balance and basically is just right, though regarding operations I tend to perform above average.

[IanH755]

3 hours ago, DanteriusHB said:

i try to point that out since ages.

try a DD vs CV in testroom and sail complete away from cap and co. the planes will fly straight at you, like the bot knows your location from the start.

 

It's well known that bots have something similar to "RPF" so they always know the rough direction to sail to find you. I did a thread on it with a Ru DD following my IJN DD for about 5 minutes, even through smoke etc in the training room.

 

For what I understand WG added this RPF-Style skill to the Bots AI for 2 reasons,

 

1. To make the matches more exciting as the bots charge at you.

2. So that you couldn't hide from them if you were losing, forcing the game to last the full 20 minutes while the bots searched for you.

[IanH755]

Well I'm not playing Scenarios any more - I broke my back carrying teams and still can't get above 2 stars on Defence of Newport while Raptor Rescue (the easiest and most fun to play) is no longer any fun etc.

 

So what's caused this - is it the new Bot AI/Captain Skills etc making Bots hyper amazing - not really, it's just players getting more and more crap the longer I play the game and I'm sick of depending on 6 potential mouth-breathers who, for the vast majority, negate all the good stuff I'm doing.

 

In a cruiser I'm DPM'ing like crazy (killing DD's before trying to hit other ships), in a BB I'm tanking like crazy (being further forward than the cruisers so bots shoot at me) and yet game after game nothing I do matters as the rest of the team (bar maybe one other player) turns out to be a cabbage, undo-ing all my hard work by sniping in a BB or running away so cruisers are left tanking, or charging in with a cruiser to face a BB whilst leaving the DD's alone etc.

 

Here's just two results which give an idea as to the potato level playing today - A loss in a Cleveland and a 2 Star win in a New Mexico (earning the "Solo Warrior" type award) and in both games I was the last alive and still fighting. In the Cleveland game, our only BB (a 3/4 health Normadie) ran back to spawn to heal (died to CV torps - too far from me for AA Cover) while I was dropping DD's all-over the map and in the NM game we did well despite the CV being a goon until the cruisers (at least 2) allowed a DD to burst the perimeter as they were shooting a 12km BB instead of the 6km DD, despite me pinging the ship for all 30 seconds while I reloaded, and then it all went to rat-poop!

 

***EDIT*** - Checked up the stats of the two teams I played on - WOW!!! NM Team was 38-47% WR with our CV having played only 1 PvP game in it (AFK with 11 XP) and Cleveland team was 44-47% with 1 other player >50% WR (the other Cleveland who came 2nd) and our single "tanking" BB at 44% from 2 games in it.

 

 

[Butterdoll]

10 hours ago, IanH755 said:

Well I'm not playing Scenarios any more - I broke my back carrying teams and still can't get above 2 stars on Defence of Newport while Raptor Rescue (the easiest and most fun to play) is no longer any fun etc.

 

So what's caused this - is it the new Bot AI/Captain Skills etc making Bots hyper amazing - not really, it's just players getting more and more crap the longer I play the game and I'm sick of depending on 6 potential mouth-breathers who, for the vast majority, negate all the good stuff I'm doing.

 

In a cruiser I'm DPM'ing like crazy (killing DD's before trying to hit other ships), in a BB I'm tanking like crazy (being further forward than the cruisers so bots shoot at me) and yet game after game nothing I do matters as the rest of the team (bar maybe one other player) turns out to be a cabbage, undo-ing all my hard work by sniping in a BB or running away so cruisers are left tanking, or charging in with a cruiser to face a BB whilst leaving the DD's alone etc.

 

Here's just two results which give an idea as to the potato level playing today - A loss in a Cleveland and a 2 Star win in a New Mexico (earning the "Solo Warrior" type award) and in both games I was the last alive and still fighting. In the Cleveland game, our only BB (a 3/4 health Normadie) ran back to spawn to heal (died to CV torps - too far from me for AA Cover) while I was dropping DD's all-over the map and in the NM game we did well despite the CV being a goon until the cruisers (at least 2) allowed a DD to burst the perimeter as they were shooting a 12km BB instead of the 6km DD, despite me pinging the ship for all 30 seconds while I reloaded, and then it all went to rat-poop!

 

***EDIT*** - Checked up the stats of the two teams I played on - WOW!!! NM Team was 38-47% WR with our CV having played only 1 PvP game in it (AFK with 11 XP) and Cleveland team was 44-47% with 1 other player >50% WR (the other Cleveland who came 2nd) and our single "tanking" BB at 44% from 2 games in it.

 

 

well, today was not a bad day, I can't complain about the team mates I got. The normal usual.

the fun thing is... I don't think  this ops was changed like the others were. My last game award me with a will to win thing, thou.

Ultimate frontier- t1000 bots

Killer whale- I didn't notice any thing unusual

Raptor rescue- t1000 bots

 

Maybe they are retrieving samples, numbers, data and all of that math stuff.

 

I had a couple of teams that rushed the second wave, and in one of them I stood alone in the end, a 3 stars win, ufff.

 

 

by the way.

a special thanks to NothingButTheRain and his clan mates, they literally saved me from the raptor ops... I was hitting a wall in the last day of that op.

 

 

 

 

 

[EgyptOverseer]

Can't play OPs with cruisers anymore. Crazy enemy accuracy increase, and automatic focus target. It's bad enough that bots know your position at all times and can see your torps as they are launched. Couple that with them ignoring BBs most of the time it practically means that unless you have a significant amount of BBs it never ends well now.

[IanH755]

5 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Couple that with them ignoring BBs most of the time it practically means that unless you have a significant amount of BBs it never ends well now.

 

Yeah thats something I've noticed more over the past few months. The bots really seem to focus cruisers heavily (Atlanta especially), ignoring closer BB's, which makes tanking as a BB a lot harder than it should be as you almost need to be within torp range before a bot will notice you over the 12km cruiser it's shooting at.

[anonym_FDOLXpxOfXXq]

21 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

And whatsnot, other more new players will see this and start thinking "Hey, I'll bring all my 3pt captain stock DDs into operations too!" yes very much funny.

Well, I see your point, but with the easy Ops gone, where are we supposed to take our stock ships and new captains ?

(and please don't say coop, with the current level of rewards it's just not an option :D).

I *really* hope WG will actually introduce the easy/hard mode for Ops...

[NothingButTheRain]

3 hours ago, AmiralPotato said:

Well, I see your point, but with the easy Ops gone, where are we supposed to take our stock ships and new captains ?

(and please don't say coop, with the current level of rewards it's just not an option :D).

I *really* hope WG will actually introduce the easy/hard mode for Ops...

Coop, of course. Where else? Or use fxp for the modules instead of trying to freeload and hope the rest of the team can carry them.

I think Raptor turned more sour the last few days (with the amount of wins dropping WAY under 50%) due to too many freeloaders being in the teams.

The only defeat I had in Defend this week was a battle where we had 2 DDs, one was a IJN DD and of course these DDs ended at the bottom of the list, even below a CL who died in the first wave (I kid you not that CL really died in the first wave. And 1 DD placed even below him after we had lost and the other directly above him).

 

So yes, the answer is coop. You get +50% win like 95% of the times and coop battles last a lot shorter. Or play DDs in randoms and get much better rewards even if you loose, but a loss in scenario basically means you get even less reward then in coop while having spend maybe 3 times as much time...only because you got teamed up with too many freeloaders.