Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Butterdoll

Ops, again, please.

40 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[L4GG]
Players
3,040 posts
10,536 battles

I am with this feeling that not just Ultimate frontier got changed.

I'm playing this operation since it started (this week) with only one ship, (training it's captain and probably saying goodbye to a ship).

 

Now I am having trouble doing this... (post 16)

 

This mission was?, is ? One of the two where I got more citadels per game (26 or 27 ) and doing around 20 often, but now, I just can't manage to go to that number. Let alone over it.

Besides of getting more focus at C5  from an occasional set of incoming bb shells, now I have to take at account 3 or 4  that can ruin the last leg at B4, and thus farming some more citadels. Now, for some games I have to go to A3 not only to catch the cv when needed but to spread the chaos between the bots and in the process drawing some of their fire to me instead.

A3 or B4 I have my boat at 50% of HP at best sometimes at very low HP. while in the past I could brawl the Kuma, Aoba to kingdom come, sink the cv (when needed) and have enough HP to turn to the bbs and feast a lot or a little bit

At first I thought that was me, not being fresh and tired from work, but today  I got a good night sleep.

So...

the player is the same, as the player base.

the ship it's one of the usual, and I did out performed me in this ship when compared from this past week to today, so the same ship.

I was fresh today.

I did the same things as I did in the past raptors ops.

...pretty much the same.

Is just me or anybody else are finding this thing harder?

 

 

 

  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
2,191 posts
2 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Bots got smarter, that's about it

 

Indeed, the AI is a good deal better at fighting since the changes as it was under-performing before, this is true for all the operations. They have said they will review the stats and see if they've tweaked it too far or if it's what they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester, Players
365 posts

They made the bots better than their player base - which is not hard to do, to be honest.

  • Cool 4
  • Funny 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
26,133 posts
14,103 battles

Played it sixtimes at least, one loss, two five stars, one two star (no BB in match), rest four star.

The mission is still easy.

But if the BB do not tank, the cruisers get taken apart. Sailing broadside to enemy results in getting sunk.

 

Getting that many citadels means you have to take out all cruisers/CV by yourself, which is a hard thing to do, even before the change.

The only mission you can do that easily is Aegis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
3,040 posts
10,536 battles
54 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Indeed, the AI is a good deal better at fighting since the changes as it was under-performing before, this is true for all the operations. They have said they will review the stats and see if they've tweaked it too far or if it's what they want.

I thought that (bot change) was only for the ultimate frontier ops

In Killer whale I didn't noticed any difference from what it's the usual, but this...

it's just too much.

For what I'm concerned I think this it's turning into a thing.

i'll be more interested in the future how this all thing will be developed.

42 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Played it sixtimes at least, one loss, two five stars, one two star (no BB in match), rest four star.

The mission is still easy.

But if the BB do not tank, the cruisers get taken apart. Sailing broadside to enemy results in getting sunk.

 

Getting that many citadels means you have to take out all cruisers/CV by yourself, which is a hard thing to do, even before the change.

The only mission you can do that easily is Aegis.

well...

15 ops.

9 defeats, 0 stars.

6 wins, 1 five stars, 2 four stars, 1 three stars, 2 two stars.

 

a far cry from it used to be.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,006 posts
1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Bots got smarter, that's about it

Bots are cheating :)

 

Try a DD ... as soon as you are spotted on the start (the exact same moment) every bot has its gun facing you and shoots you with deadly accuracy.

I like some challenge, but this is just BS.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,546 posts
17,765 battles
1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Bots got smarter, that's about it

Actually bots are just as idiot as they were before.

 

Only now they have 19 point captains with IFHE, DE and all the good appropriate skills for the ships, and they have exaggerated accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WJDE]
Beta Tester
555 posts
8,741 battles

Smarter bots? Great, maybe wargaming will soon start developing robowaifus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
5,976 posts
11,310 battles

So far I've gotten these results:

 

14 wins 8 losses.

5x5*

5x4*

2x3*

1x2*

1x0* (yes we won with 0 stars lol)

 

The 8 losses I was 1st 2 times, 2nd 2 times and 3rd 3 times. I was 5th 1 time so basically my teammates were a big cause in the failures, and this is what I think as well.

More then one of these games we gotten the Raptor into the exit zone while ALL of us had died, so some of these were extremely close calls.

 

With Killer Whale I think balance is not bad, this operation doesn't seem to have changed much.

Raptor Rescue always was a bit more tricky. I don't know if it's gotten worse, but it certainly isn't easy to win this one unless you get a div of unicorns :Smile_popcorn:

 

I think the tier 7 operations are much too hard now, I agree with Butterdoll on this. With CLs it's not even funny anymore :Smile-angry:

But Killer Whale seems unaffected (I have not checked any stats here though), Raptor Rescue is far from a cakewalk but many teammates are just very poor players. Or just lazy and don't really caring much and hoping their teammates will carry them (literally it seems).

2 hours ago, nambr9 said:

Bots are cheating :)

 

Try a DD ... as soon as you are spotted on the start (the exact same moment) every bot has its gun facing you and shoots you with deadly accuracy.

I like some challenge, but this is just BS.

Frankly, most DDs are wasted slots in operations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,418 posts
10,953 battles

Yes, bots are better, but unlike in T7 scenarios, in Raptor Rescue it is still mostly fight T6 vs T4-T5 ships, and moves are quite predictable.

It is still enough to have only 3 brains in the team to get at least 4 stars - sometimes you lose an escorted ship to torpedo, or can't kill both CV in time.

 

The biggest mistake is to activate Zuiho bot too early - usually potato CV or DD players tend to do that. Then you end with air attacks & dealing with Zuiho at the same time when frontal DD & cruisers attack begins, and bye bye stars.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
3,781 posts
17,228 battles

So the bots got better, at least it's a challenge now ... are you going to whine with every Ops that it got "too difficult" ? :cap_old:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BS4]
Players
1,287 posts
7,215 battles
12 hours ago, nambr9 said:

Bots are cheating :)

 

Try a DD ... as soon as you are spotted on the start (the exact same moment) every bot has its gun facing you and shoots you with deadly accuracy.

I like some challenge, but this is just BS.

.....so just like random then....minus the bots....and accuracy!!:Smile_teethhappy:

 

I've always found the ops a little lacking as they were to easy IMO. The new AI and far more aggressive attitude of the bots is welcome and presents more of a challenge witch is good I think..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
5,976 posts
11,310 battles

I played 4 or 5 more operations today and all of them were losses. But this time it's definitely the players, hopefully this problem will go away once the 200% weekend is over.

 

Teammates in operations since yesterday have been atrocious. Really atrocious, a Cleveland being afk and after 10 minutes someone notices this and sais something along the lines of "All report afk Cleveland" and then the Cleveland sais something like "Allright I'll move".

People are deliberately trying to freeride and it's impossible to carry on your own like this. There wasn't even a close call, most ships are dead even before the DD torp part.

They don't care, they are lazy, they are absolutely not teamplayers but selfish. They go yolo to top left part of the map and die (so they get good damage and thus good reward if team carries him).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
3,040 posts
10,536 battles
16 hours ago, lup3s said:

So the bots got better, at least it's a challenge now ... are you going to whine with every Ops that it got "too difficult" ? :cap_old:

if this it's for me I can answer, no.

At least not as hard as the every ops are too easy guys.

 

I'm just surprised that WG did the experience thing with all the ops, I thought that was only with ultimate frontier. And apparently was a fiasco .

As I said in the other topic, when I play co-op or ops I don't seek challenge, I want a relaxing time and a quick way to gain oil and Xp.

I'm tired and I want some quick gratification (like brawling and so on).

On ‎06‎-‎05‎-‎2018 at 7:38 PM, JapLance said:

Actually bots are just as idiot as they were before.

 

Only now they have 19 point captains with IFHE, DE and all the good appropriate skills for the ships, and they have exaggerated accuracy.

well, 19 point captains, IFHE and DE bots it's way more than I have got. (In fact IFHE it's what I'm trying to get with the ship I talked about).

exaggerated accuracy, also.

Co-op and ops have many upsides. One of them being a great training room.

2 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I played 4 or 5 more operations today and all of them were losses. But this time it's definitely the players, hopefully this problem will go away once the 200% weekend is over.

 

Teammates in operations since yesterday have been atrocious. Really atrocious, a Cleveland being afk and after 10 minutes someone notices this and sais something along the lines of "All report afk Cleveland" and then the Cleveland sais something like "Allright I'll move".

People are deliberately trying to freeride and it's impossible to carry on your own like this. There wasn't even a close call, most ships are dead even before the DD torp part.

They don't care, they are lazy, they are absolutely not teamplayers but selfish. They go yolo to top left part of the map and die (so they get good damage and thus good reward if team carries him).

That happen to me also in the last weekend, 15 battles, 9 defeats.

9x0 stars.

that it's unheard of in ops, came on, people. whining? give me a break (not you Starbuck)

But in the past we had those too and wasn't impossible to have a field day.

 We had weekend and stuff also, and the thing usually didn't change much.

Now it's a completely different story.

 

 

 

 

 

If it's not me, it's another guy(s) of the  seven.

I was fine doing what I usually did (C5- B4) supporting the team, killing the Aoba and Kuma and sometimes a dd or two, then the last set Aoba/Kuma the cv and the bbs, right in their backyard, if I didn't got them all, I was able to sink some of them and make heavy damage to the rest, as well, providing cross fire for the team, drawing some of their fire from the convoy to me and be a safety net to the team regarding the second cv.

without fancy signals or other fancy stuff. Just my ship, a 10 point captain, me and my team. 

Now when and if I reach B4, I'm hardly battle effective , I can't take on 4 ships at once anymore (98% of the times that Kuma/Aoba were two guaranteed kills in the first minute or so after B4) I have to retreat to A3 now, and that it's not as effective to say the least.

Now I need help  to continue to make this approach (C5-B4) and division up  or not the problem is we (the team) just don't have any ships left to spare, specially with early loses.

The problem starts at that god forsaken island where Raptor is, always were, all or almost all the players go hide there, instead of creating a defensive perimeter they all go hide. But this problem wasn't as big as is now.

I never used the repair zone before. C5-B4 it's all about timing, dodging (there you will eat some damage), citadeling (everything else it's a fail) and timing again  to stop to be detected before the bbs can take a shot at, and wait for the last Aoba/Kuma make the left turn at that island to be broadsiding with me, two/three salvos each were enough to sink them.

Now I still can't go to that repair zone, if I get there my timing will be off, if I do C5-B4 I just don't have enough HP left.

 

So, scrap the t1000's and reinstate the t-100's

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
3,781 posts
17,228 battles
5 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

I can't take on 4 ships at once anymore

 

And this is bad because ... ?

 

Imo you're not supposed to be able to take on 4 ships at once -most of the time-, there are some exceptions ofcourse (e.g. CL vs 4 DDs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
6,278 posts
24,145 battles

I genuinley do not mind bots getting “smarter” and ops harder even if it means losing some but Yesterday i took out Arizona for a spin 46 hits and of those Like 34 overpens for almost no damage at all, similar happened few days back with warspite, really strange

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
3,040 posts
10,536 battles
11 hours ago, lup3s said:

 

And this is bad because ... ?

 

Imo you're not supposed to be able to take on 4 ships at once -most of the time-, there are some exceptions ofcourse (e.g. CL vs 4 DDs).

But I was... almost all the time.

because of some factors, like.

old bots.

not being alone.

etc.

Do you remember me saying in another topic the bot I feared the most in Raptor rescue was Piss?

Because I always knew if I had to sink the cv I most certainly would end up dead, and sometimes I simply couldn't handle the overall damage and be sunk by one of the bbs, Many times by Piss.

 

 

 

scraping that last kuma and Aoba (that I was able to guarantee, not anymore), I think it's precious to the team, not only it's two ships less but also no torps on the water. ( the cv will focus the guy that is up there).

In the past, at c5, again Kuma/Aoba, scrapping those was and is Lowering the possibility of the convoy being torped, and if you manage to at least occupy the dds, well, more to you. either wise they would fall on top of the convoy.

But neither B4 or C5 you are alone, I think, you have your team mates pumping hot lead also. 

A3, if the bots go south you simply don't have enough range.

 

 

tldr- It's bad because now you simply can't make sure of wining with ,at least, 4 stars.

Now it's defeats, again.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,374 posts
15,265 battles
On 06/05/2018 at 8:22 PM, nambr9 said:

Bots are cheating :)

 

Try a DD ... as soon as you are spotted on the start (the exact same moment) every bot has its gun facing you and shoots you with deadly accuracy.

Same goes for BBs sniping cruisers from 15 km. I guess OPS are meant to simulate Random battles more closely. :Smile_veryhappy:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
3,040 posts
10,536 battles

My team just melted in this on

 

ay.thumb.png.8555b229fda8a96c2397fdda341f09a7.png

what a waste of 1º win of the day bonus. I'm so frustrated because I needed it that bonus.

we won with two stars by the skin of our teeth.

Will to win awarded but I need so much the XP points to my 14º point...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,420 posts
8,350 battles

Usually I get 4 - 5 stars when I play with Ryujo.

I sink the first Furutaka, then hammer the Myogi, send planes to south, attack Zuiho (sometimes I need two waves to sink it). Then move the carrier AHEAD of Raptor (it's much more desireable that I got sunk instead of Raptor, which is an instant lose), send the planes to sink one of the dds on the middle of the map (usually here is where we lose a star because the second dd sometimes launches its torpedoes and sinks one of the support ships), sink second dd, stop waves from enemy Ryujo, attack and sink Ryujo, attack and sink the last wave of ships and still go ahead of Raptor to outrun it.

 

Rinse and repeat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
6,278 posts
24,145 battles

I really dont get how u re supposed to get 5 stars in this "Defence of the Newport station" maybee only by incredible bout of dumb blind luck becouse that (3rd i think) wave of ships (the one with nurnberg in it) usually brakes the line and u re screwed. Winning in itself while far from certain isnt really a problem but stars...

 

IE tried with Ryujo and simply cant strike fast enogh, to kill them off, not to mention that hiryu coming later has aa cover for his planes and twice as many fighters up as u have, independence strikes even slower then that so not worth trying it, might as well take AS Ryujo and at least have air control... With cruisers u are not tough enough to stop them all they bleed u to death and bbs (even dunq) are just to slow to reposition properly and shoot to inacuratley to stop all those dds pushing in.

 

Edit:

Managed those 5 stars, but barley - took me like 7-8 attempts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,956 posts
6,559 battles

As the OP of the Raptor thread above I can say I've not been able to have anywhere near as many "good" games anymore and the vast majority of the problem isn't the new Bot AI but the extremely poor skill levels of the other human players on my team.

 

I have had very few games where there has been any more than 2 "good" players on the team with most matches seeing 1-2 BB's chase the bottom right CV or firing HE, most of the team position themselves in areas which stop them shooting at bots, DD's sitting in their own smoke and don't scout (same with CV's) etc so the slight increase in bot ability is magnified by the utter potatoes currently infesting Scenarios.

 

I do wonder how much has been the increase in "PvP only" players dropping into scenarios to do the End of WW2 mission (kill 3 IJN ships bit) and using the more passive PvP tactics against the bots rather than being aggressive?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BONI]
Players
1,257 posts
12,064 battles
On 07/05/2018 at 12:17 AM, NothingButTheRain said:

Frankly, most DDs are wasted slots in operations.

 

I can consistently top the board in Aegis but I agree, at least Newport, Raptor and KW benefit more from another cruiser.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,546 posts
17,765 battles

Just for curiosity, in one of the games I was sunk before the end I did take some screenshots of the bot ships to check what signal flags were they flying.

 

Battleships: India Delta (+repair), Sierra Mike (+speed), Juliet Charlie ( no detonation), Hotel Yankee (+ramming)

Cruisers: India X-ray (+fire), Victor Lima (+fire), Sierra Mike (+speed)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×