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Fiold

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Hi,

As old WOT player, WOP beta tester and former WOW player I returned to play WOW after long pause. Game is better, but still not good. Don't take my post as an offence. I just want to make this game better and I decided to write few thoughts:

1. Guns and armor - I can see some potential damage from guns, but nothing more. I don't know what armor can I pierce, I don't know anything about accuracy. That is big problem. in WOT you know everything - penetration, aiming time, accuracy, damage, armor of the enemy. You could chose if you want to have sniper gun or brawler gun. You can chose  slow but hard hitting, or fast firing low damage gun. Here - nothing. So I'm sailing a destroyer against battleship and I have no idea if I should shot my guns or not. And if - should I use HE or AP? Should I aim high or low? Also - should my ship stay in long or short distance? What is more durable - side armor or deck armor? That is a very weak part of the game.

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot? Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun? Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes? Something like this was possible in Navy Field - one could customize his/her ship. Here? Nothnig.

3. Airplanes - again, like in point 2. I can't select my version of air wing. Maybe I want just bombers, or more fighters? Or maybe I want to arm my bombers with 2 light bombs each, not one single heavy bomb? Or maybe AP bombs not HE ones?

4. Captain's system? I preffer WOT version of crew and skills.

IMHO - game is worth to play for free, but I will not pay for it for a moment.

ANy comments guys?

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3 minutes ago, Fiold said:

1. Guns and armor - I can see some potential damage from guns, but nothing more. I don't know what armor can I pierce, I don't know anything about accuracy.

They change massively over different distances, which is why you generally can't linearly scale any of them. Doesn't matter that much either - the same general principles are true for all classes (like BB AP pening any broadside main belt or DD AP never pening BB main belt) no matter which ships you put in those places. Nurnberg vs Bayern will have pretty much the same idea as Hindenburg vs GK.

Individual ship knowledge comes from simply playing them

 

And you do know your horizontal accuracy at max range, that is given to you (probably the only linearly scaling thing in this whole system)

 

7 minutes ago, Fiold said:

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot?

Some ships have this ability (like GK / Mogami) while others never did (Yamatos only carried 460s as an example)

 

8 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun?

Benson C hull takes away 1 turret to gain more AA compared to B hull

 

8 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes?

Stronger torpedoes are usually slower to reload, afaik most DDs can choose between "stock" and "upgraded" torps with both having some advantages and disadvantages

 

10 minutes ago, Fiold said:

3. Airplanes - again, like in point 2. I can't select my version of air wing. Maybe I want just bombers, or more fighters?

On US CVs you can't do that anymore, true. Still can on Japanese

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6 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Hi,

As old WOT player, WOP beta tester and former WOW player I returned to play WOW after long pause. Game is better, but still not good. Don't take my post as an offence. I just want to make this game better and I decided to write few thoughts:

1. Guns and armor - I can see some potential damage from guns, but nothing more. I don't know what armor can I pierce, I don't know anything about accuracy. That is big problem. in WOT you know everything - penetration, aiming time, accuracy, damage, armor of the enemy. You could chose if you want to have sniper gun or brawler gun. You can chose  slow but hard hitting, or fast firing low damage gun. Here - nothing. So I'm sailing a destroyer against battleship and I have no idea if I should shot my guns or not. And if - should I use HE or AP? Should I aim high or low? Also - should my ship stay in long or short distance? What is more durable - side armor or deck armor? That is a very weak part of the game.

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot? Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun? Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes? Something like this was possible in Navy Field - one could customize his/her ship. Here? Nothnig.

3. Airplanes - again, like in point 2. I can't select my version of air wing. Maybe I want just bombers, or more fighters? Or maybe I want to arm my bombers with 2 light bombs each, not one single heavy bomb? Or maybe AP bombs not HE ones?

4. Captain's system? I preffer WOT version of crew and skills.

IMHO - game is worth to play for free, but I will not pay for it for a moment.

ANy comments guys?

You have no experience with the game, let alone tiering and what not. Armor isn't nearly as relevant as in wot. Here t8 ships can one shot t10s if the latter is stupid. 

 

You have different guns on a number of ships. There was however never a need for a short range naval gun, so differences are more the number and calibre. 

 

You don't want fully customizable ships. A haku with 8 tb squadrons would oneshot anything. 

 

I prefer this captain system. A lot. You can actually reach the maximum rather easily and then transfer xp to other captains. Wot = play 10k battles in ONE TANK to get the crew to the sixth skill (maybe).

 

Sorry that you haven't found your mojo yet, but wows is leaps and bounds better than wot ever was. 

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Never give much attention to what someone says before the "but".....

 

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You can customize you ship a bit, but playstile selection starts with ship selection in WoWs.

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33 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Hi,

As old WOT player, WOP beta tester and former WOW player I returned to play WOW after long pause. Game is better, but still not good. Don't take my post as an offence. I just want to make this game better and I decided to write few thoughts:

1. Guns and armor - I can see some potential damage from guns, but nothing more. I don't know what armor can I pierce, I don't know anything about accuracy. That is big problem. in WOT you know everything - penetration, aiming time, accuracy, damage, armor of the enemy. You could chose if you want to have sniper gun or brawler gun. You can chose  slow but hard hitting, or fast firing low damage gun. Here - nothing. So I'm sailing a destroyer against battleship and I have no idea if I should shot my guns or not. And if - should I use HE or AP? Should I aim high or low? Also - should my ship stay in long or short distance? What is more durable - side armor or deck armor? That is a very weak part of the game.

WoWS implemented an armour viewer a while ago where you can look at a quite detailed armoured scheme of all ships. So if you don't know which parts of a ship you can penetrate, you should use this to find out. There are also general rules of thumb you can easily keep in mind, like BBs of a certain tier and below/above having certain armour thicknesses on their bow and superstructure which you can penetrate/overmatch (or not). The only thing you don't have compared to WoT is the penetration indicator in your reticle. At least that's what I think you mean. Don't know if they still have it in the game. It also wouldn't make much sense as wilkatis pointed out because the penetration changes over distance, angles play a role and a general lower accuracy than in WoT makes your shells not land on spot anyway, especially over longer distances.

 

Quote

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot? Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun? Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes? Something like this was possible in Navy Field - one could customize his/her ship. Here? Nothnig.

Customization as in giving different armaments are possible for some ships. WG stays close to RL overall in most cases, though which IMO is a good thing. That's why you can't exchange the 3x3 460 mm guns on the Yamato for 3x6 155 mm guns, to give an extreme example. But some ships can switch calibres like the Mogami or two of the German destroyers. Others can exchange main guns for additional AA mounts etc.

But overall, if you want to have certain gun characteristics, you have to choose your class/ship accordingly.

 

Quote

3. Airplanes - again, like in point 2. I can't select my version of air wing. Maybe I want just bombers, or more fighters? Or maybe I want to arm my bombers with 2 light bombs each, not one single heavy bomb? Or maybe AP bombs not HE ones?

To argue about CVs at this point in time is a bit mute anyway because they are supposed to be overhauled soonTM. The given loadouts are supposed to be balanced and giving every player the possibility to make their own air wings will lead to a total FUBAR situation.

 

Quote

4. Captain's system? I preffer WOT version of crew and skills.

That's your opinion which is ok. Others prefer the WoWS system (or a completely different one).

 

Quote

IMHO - game is worth to play for free, but I will not pay for it for a moment.

ANy comments guys?

You should play more games before coming to the forum and making suggestions because at this point no one will really take you and your thoughts seriously. You haven't even left the tiers with protected MM. I have said it in other threads to other people (and it is not an offense either): You behave like someone who played one or two hours World of Warcraft while staying in the newby areas the whole time and then you go to the forum and make suggestions about the high level PvP class balancing. It just doesn't work.

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36 minutes ago, Fiold said:

 

4. Captain's system? I preffer WOT version of crew and skills.

Why would you EVER prefer the WoT version?

Have fun needing to play 100 games with your terribad crew PER SHIP before it reaches 100% while having slower reload, less accuracy, etc. And then play another 500 to finally get sixth sense (which is free in this game! thank the lord!).

No, I will quit playing WoWs (and I imagine a lot of players will) if they ever implement a crew system similar to WoT. I've tried getting back into WoT (I have 18+k battles there) and try the new tanks, but I can't since even starting with a 75% crew is horrible and I don't have the time to level them up all the way untill I get sixth sense.

 

For the rest of it... Seems you need to go watch some tutorials.

1) It is not like WoT is so forthcoming with information on what and how you can pen stuff. You kinda need to figure that out yourself as well. And believe me when I say WoWs is a LOT easier in that regard as well.

2) Ships were as they were. It is not like in real life they could just willy nilly remove and add guns, torpedoes and the like. There are some ships that have options though. Also, BALANCE is a thing?

3) yeah, though I would like to have more flexibility in flight decks, there would need to be some HEAVY restrictions on this. As dCK_Ad_Hominem above said: imagine CVs with TBs only. Or only fighters... Please no.

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5 minutes ago, Loran_Battle said:

Why would you EVER prefer the WoT version?

Have fun needing to play 100 games with your terribad crew PER SHIP before it reaches 100% while having slower reload, less accuracy, etc. And then play another 500 to finally get sixth sense (which is free in this game! thank the lord!).

No, I will quit playing WoWs (and I imagine a lot of players will) if they ever implement a crew system similar to WoT. I've tried getting back into WoT (I have 18+k battles there) and try the new tanks, but I can't since even starting with a 75% crew is horrible and I don't have the time to level them up all the way untill I get sixth sense.

 

For the rest of it... Seems you need to go watch some tutorials.

1) It is not like WoT is so forthcoming with information on what and how you can pen stuff. You kinda need to figure that out yourself as well. And believe me when I say WoWs is a LOT easier in that regard as well.

2) Ships were as they were. It is not like in real life they could just willy nilly remove and add guns, torpedoes and the like. There are some ships that have options though. Also, BALANCE is a thing?

3) yeah, though I would like to have more flexibility in flight decks, there would need to be some HEAVY restrictions on this. As dCK_Ad_Hominem above said: imagine CVs with TBs only. Or only fighters... Please no.

WG seems to be working on a 'crew' thingy, which is however different from the system WoT uses.

Iirc, they trying to add an XO which represents the 'crew' and has his own set of skills and perks, which sounds quite nice to me (tho, knowing WG, there's a lot room to eff it up^^).

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27 minutes ago, Fiold said:

1. Guns and armor - I can see some potential damage from guns, but nothing more. I don't know what armor can I pierce, I don't know anything about accuracy. That is big problem. in WOT you know everything - penetration, aiming time, accuracy, damage, armor of the enemy. You could chose if you want to have sniper gun or brawler gun. You can chose  slow but hard hitting, or fast firing low damage gun. Here - nothing. So I'm sailing a destroyer against battleship and I have no idea if I should shot my guns or not. And if - should I use HE or AP? Should I aim high or low? Also - should my ship stay in long or short distance? What is more durable - side armor or deck armor? That is a very weak part of the game.

Penetration in WoWs isn't a set value, it's a combination of several properties of guns/shells. Muzzle velocity, "Krupp" (sort of quality of AP shell), air drag, range etc.

As with everything, reading some on the wiki about these aspects of the game will explain most of the underlying mechanics. Then just check out some YT videos to help put it into practice.

 

Where to aim on ships will differ based on the target ship (not just its class) and what you are shooting at it.

Without sounding too harsh, WoWs is more of a "thinking man's game" than WoT and WoWp.

 

42 minutes ago, Fiold said:

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot? Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun? Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes? Something like this was possible in Navy Field - one could customize his/her ship. Here? Nothnig.

Navy Field had the ability to create "Franken-ships". While hilarious it's not very immersive and would just add yet another hurdle for inexperienced players.

WoWs uses historical configurations for their historical ships and "best guess" configurations for their blueprint/fantasy ships.

Some ships still offer a bit of customization like different torpedoes, but for the most part your customization comes from upgrades and captain skills.

 

48 minutes ago, Fiold said:

3. Airplanes - again, like in point 2. I can't select my version of air wing. Maybe I want just bombers, or more fighters? Or maybe I want to arm my bombers with 2 light bombs each, not one single heavy bomb? Or maybe AP bombs not HE ones?

Which would be impossible to balance.

No thanks.

You can pick HE or AP bombs on a few CVs and regular or deep water torpedoes on one. A few CVs offer slightly different fighter/TB/DB numbers as options.

 

54 minutes ago, Fiold said:

4. Captain's system? I preffer WOT version of crew and skills.

Absolutely don't agree. The captain system is one of the biggest advantages over WoT.

Juggling several guys per vehicle where the number and type you need varies from tank to tank... please miss me with that crap.

 

56 minutes ago, Fiold said:

IMHO - game is worth to play for free, but I will not pay for it for a moment.

That's your choice to make. For me WoWs is far superior to both the other on offer.

 

Personally I prefer the planning and slower pace of WoWs where choices you make play out over a longer time.

It has no gold ammo.

No artillery.

No broken spotting mechanics.

No "oh you're one tier below your enemy, now you can't damage him and he can 2-shot you from any angle"

 

For me there is no comparison.

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Ships are not tanks. Who'dve thought?

 

OP's thinking that WoT is more forthcoming with information is exceptionally biased, as an "old WoT player". You're just used to WoT's mechanics and armor models, whereas in WoWS you are not. You have simply forgotten what it is  like to need to learn. Do not confuse your inexperience with fault.

 

Most of WoT's meaningful information isn't in game, like armor models, people have to use Tanks.gg for that. In WoWs I can see any ship's armor model in-game whenever I want. WoT's crew system is trash because of how grindy it is. I like the customize-ability it brings with different crew members with different skills, but it isn't worth having to play 500 games in a single vehicle just so I know if I'm spotted or not. My most played ship is my Amagi with only 302 battles atm, if this was world of tanks I'd barely have started her crew grind, but she has a 19 point captain.

 

Lastly, WoT has been out for what, 8 years? WoWs is barely past it's second birthday, give it time. Though I'd be fooling myself if OP is going to respond to this thread again, seems more like the "drop sage advice and bail" type.

 

EDIT: Also [edited]premium ammo lol.

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WoWs does everything better than WoT. From developer interraction to outplaying instead of outpaying (premium ammo).

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2 hours ago, Fiold said:

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot? Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun? Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes? Something like this was possible in Navy Field - one could customize his/her ship. Here? Nothnig.

 

2. as its way less of a grind that WoT your customization comes in the form of up to 4 classes across several nations at each tier each of which behave differently and dont need a million games to make all of them playable

 

also you can play for free through to T8 as an average player , have fun with it

 

 

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Atleast I don't get rekt by gold ammo from a tank that my team can't even see.

Here in WoWs I can burn down a Yamato with my St.Louis. Opportunities for everyone.:Smile_medal:

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2 hours ago, Fiold said:

Hi,

As old WOT player, WOP beta tester and former WOW player I returned to play WOW after long pause. Game is better, but still not good. Don't take my post as an offence. I just want to make this game better and I decided to write few thoughts:

(...)

ANy comments guys?

You're a complete newbie. You have no experience to speak of. Why do you believe that your input - grown on the ground (in the pond?) of blissful ignorance - is going to be of any use to anyone?

But, to respond to your ideas point by point...

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

1. Guns and armor - I can see some potential damage from guns, but nothing more. I don't know what armor can I pierce, I don't know anything about accuracy. That is big problem. in WOT you know everything - penetration, aiming time, accuracy, damage, armor of the enemy.

Even tanks don't have a uniform front/side/back armor layout. Ships are much more complicated than this. Even the best armored ships have superstructures that end up pierced by pretty much anything. as for other things...

 - penetration for HE might be added to the client (as it follows a relatively simple formula) but for AP it wouldn't make much sense

 - there is no such thing as aiming time in WoWs

 - accuracy (dispersion) is known. Would be nice to have it given for some set range, problem is: maximum range for some ships is far below the normal engagement range for others

 - armor layout of the ships can be checked in port

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

You could chose if you want to have sniper gun or brawler gun.

You can choose ships with more accurate and less accurate guns too. There are ships that fit the "sniper" or "brawler" archetype better.

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

You can chose  slow but hard hitting, or fast firing low damage gun.

Want good RoF? Go light cruisers (or certain gunboats) - the ships that carry lower caliber but faster firing guns. Want a big boom twice a minute? Most battleships specialize in big caliber guns that pack one hell of a punch but reload slowly.

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

So I'm sailing a destroyer against battleship and I have no idea if I should shot my guns or not.

Depends a lot on what destroyer you're sailing and on tactical situation. The usual answer is "no" - not because you can't damage the enemy (in WoWs, unlike in WoT, it's VERY rare for a ship to lack ability to damage another ship, even two tiers higher) but because by shooting your guns you expose your position - and this, in the stealth-dependent class of DDs, tends to not be worth it. There are exceptions (especially in USSR DD line, that one is half a step away from being one big exception from this point) but usually maintaining stealth is preferable.

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

2. I want to customize my ship. Maybe someone wants to have more, but lighter guns? Or guns with faster reload time but lower damage per shot? Maybe someone wants to exchange torpedo tube for gun or AA gun? Or maybe more but weaker torpedoes? Something like this was possible in Navy Field - one could customize his/her ship. Here? Nothnig.

This is not a LEGO naval warfare game, though. You can slightly alter characteristics of your ship by choosing certain upgrades and modules, sometimes you have big choices to make with consumables. But ships tend to not be all that customizable - you can't expect to be able to freely swap torpedo tubes for guns and vice versa. There are some ships with "alternative hulls" (different set-ups rather than straight upgrades) but in most cases that wouldn't make much sense.

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

3. Airplanes - again, like in point 2. I can't select my version of air wing. Maybe I want just bombers, or more fighters? Or maybe I want to arm my bombers with 2 light bombs each, not one single heavy bomb? Or maybe AP bombs not HE ones?

There are carriers that can choose AP vs HE bombs (USN high tier, generally speaking).

Most carriers (silvver IJN CVs along with most if not all premiums) have different squadron configurations to pick from. You don't get to mix-and-match them, yes, but if you played the game a bit (in or even against CVs), you'd realize what a nightmare to balance it would be to try and implement full freedom in picking the configuration of squadrons.

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

4. Captain's system? I preffer WOT version of crew and skills.

9325080020.jpg

 

To each their own - I, for one, strictly prefer WoWs system. Unless you give some arguments, you're simply expressing your opinion which is, well, not very helpful even if you actually were a player with extensive some experience with the system you comment about.

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OK guys, so my points are:

1. Armor - still I think that it is weak part of the game. I know, that I can check armor in port, but what can I do with it? Nothing. In real naval combat it was very important to maintain proper distance to enemy - if you had strong belt armor you wanted to get close, if you had strong deck - stay in distance. Just think about Hood and Bismarck. Now it is black magic for me. I have guns, but I don't know if there is any point of shoting at enemy or not. I also don't know how good is my armor. Can I go into blow by blow fight with enemy, or not? This part of game should be reworked to make ships and artillery combat more strategic - use your armor wise. Keep distance or close to enemy. Use strong points of your ship and weak points of enemy. For example - you see Hood? Keep distance, cos it's deck's  armour is weak. Now it is just "click, click, click".

 

2. Customization should give more flexibility to game. Players should be able to choose - for example shells for main battery -  heavier with shorter range, or lighter with longer range. Secondary guns - light with AA capabilities or medium without AA capabilities. Also torpedos - fast, but visible steam ones or slow but hidden electrical? It will not affect historical accuracy, because many ships of same class were modified during their duty - for example Warspite and Queen Elizabeth were identical in 1913, but far different in 1944 (ships had different secondary batteries, FCS, different armour, propulsion etc). Also British 15 inch guns Mark I had 12 different types of shells - 8 AP, 3 HE and shrapnell. Not to mention, that various torpedoes and equipment were used on same ships.

Let's see at Polish destroyer Garland. Started as G-class destroyer with 4x120 mm guns, 4x.50MG and 8 torpedo tubes, ended with 2x105 mm guns, 6x20 mm guns and lot of antisubmarine equipment. Also between start and end of her carrer she was armed with 76 mm AA gun in place of one torpedo launcher. So there should be many options to customize ship, but in realistic mode.

Now it is very simple and IMHO poor.

 

3. Airplanes - yes it would be difficult to balance game with posibility to make your own wings, but it will bring more strategy to game. It could be done in such way - every carrier has number of fighters, bombers and torpedo planes. You can choose weapons for them - one heavy bomb or 2 light? And torpedos - set them to longer range or faster speed? Use Mark XII or Mark XIV aerial torpedo - again - faster or with longer range. Now it is again "click, click"

 

4. It is just my opinion.

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31 minutes ago, Fiold said:

1. Armor - still I think that it is weak part of the game. (..) what can I do with it? Nothing.

Actually you can do a whole lot with it. Learn to angle correctly

 

33 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Now it is black magic for me. I have guns, but I don't know if there is any point of shoting at enemy or not. I also don't know how good is my armor.

No way, someone with barely more than 200 battles doesn't know these things?! Can't be!

Just play the god damn game and you'll get to know

 

In that same WoT your penetration value is given (or at least was some 3...4 years ago) at a distance of 100m against a flat armour plate with (assuming I remember this correctly, haven't played WoT for years) a 25% error (a.k.a. RNG) margin.

Lets say you have 100mm of pen given to you. That means you can pen anything up to between 75 and 125mm of flat armour at that distance. Your 100mm of pen will sometimes bounce on a 76mm plate and other times pen a 124mm one.

Angled armour would take that down further, even if we ignore any bounce chances. On flat ground 100mm flat vertical armour is the same as approximately 87mm armour angled 30° away from vertical or 50mm armour angled at 60° away from vertical. Is that given to you somewhere?

And then, how many mm will you pen at 200m? At 300m? Those values are not given despite your penetration actually going down (HE & HEAT obviously excluded due to how they work).

 

45 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Can I go into blow by blow fight with enemy, or not? This part of game should be reworked to make ships and artillery combat more strategic - use your armor wise.

It already is. Just because you are incapable of using your ships armour doesn't mean everyone is

 

46 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Use strong points of your ship and weak points of enemy.

Yes, that is exactly how it works. Not that you would know that after 200-ish battles

 

47 minutes ago, Fiold said:

2. Customization should give more flexibility to game.

Customization comes from 1) your ship choice 2) captains skills 3) Modules mounted. That's more than enough.

 

Whatever it is how that Navy-whatever game had that you mentioned previously is not something I see ever working / being implemented / being needed in WoWS

What we have is more or less based on ships actual historical loadouts or their "would be" loadouts with a slight bit of game balancing added in

 

50 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Let's see at Polish destroyer Garland. Started as G-class destroyer with 4x120 mm guns, 4x.50MG and 8 torpedo tubes, ended with 2x105 mm guns, 6x20 mm guns and lot of antisubmarine equipment. Also between start and end of her carrer she was armed with 76 mm AA gun in place of one torpedo launcher. So there should be many options to customize ship, but in realistic mode.

Already mentioned - look up a ship like the Benson. That's already how it works

 

51 minutes ago, Fiold said:

3. Airplanes - yes it would be difficult to balance game with posibility to make your own wings, but it will bring more strategy to game. It could be done in such way - every carrier has number of fighters, bombers and torpedo planes. You can choose weapons for them - one heavy bomb or 2 light? And torpedos - set them to longer range or faster speed? Use Mark XII or Mark XIV aerial torpedo - again - faster or with longer range. Now it is again "click, click"

Those are changes you already make before battle by selecting your loadouts, modules and skills.

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35 minutes ago, Fiold said:

1. Armor - still I think that it is weak part of the game. I know, that I can check armor in port, but what can I do with it? Nothing. In real naval combat it was very important to maintain proper distance to enemy - if you had strong belt armor you wanted to get close, if you had strong deck - stay in distance. Just think about Hood and Bismarck. Now it is black magic for me. I have guns, but I don't know if there is any point of shoting at enemy or not. I also don't know how good is my armor. Can I go into blow by blow fight with enemy, or not? This part of game should be reworked to make ships and artillery combat more strategic - use your armor wise. Keep distance or close to enemy. Use strong points of your ship and weak points of enemy. For example - you see Hood? Keep distance, cos it's deck's  armour is weak. Now it is just "click, click, click".

What you're describing here is exactly how the game works.

You just don't know it because you haven't made the effort to find these things out.

 

38 minutes ago, Fiold said:

2. Customization should give more flexibility to game. Players should be able to choose - for example shells for main battery -  heavier with shorter range, or lighter with longer range. Secondary guns - light with AA capabilities or medium without AA capabilities. Also torpedos - fast, but visible steam ones or slow but hidden electrical? It will not affect historical accuracy, because many ships of same class were modified during their duty - for example Warspite and Queen Elizabeth were identical in 1913, but far different in 1944 (ships had different secondary batteries, FCS, different armour, propulsion etc). Also British 15 inch guns Mark I had 12 different types of shells - 8 AP, 3 HE and shrapnell. Not to mention, that various torpedoes and equipment were used on same ships.

Let's see at Polish destroyer Garland. Started as G-class destroyer with 4x120 mm guns, 4x.50MG and 8 torpedo tubes, ended with 2x105 mm guns, 6x20 mm guns and lot of antisubmarine equipment. Also between start and end of her carrer she was armed with 76 mm AA gun in place of one torpedo launcher. So there should be many options to customize ship, but in realistic mode.

Now it is very simple and IMHO poor.

As long as it's a historical variation on the ship then I'm all for it. But I'm sure you can understand the reason why this isn't the norm for most ships.

First of all it'll be a nightmare to balance all the different permutations.

Secondly from a developer standpoint you're spending much more time and resources on each ship instead of finally giving us RN DDs or whatever. You'd have to change the progression to scale off of much fewer ships since you still want as much play time out of the development resources put in.

It's a design choice to stick to more or less a specific variant of a ship and instead give us variety though a lot more different ships instead. If you would have preferred the alternative, fair enough, but it's not a complaint I see very often.

 

49 minutes ago, Fiold said:

3. Airplanes - yes it would be difficult to balance game with posibility to make your own wings, but it will bring more strategy to game. It could be done in such way - every carrier has number of fighters, bombers and torpedo planes. You can choose weapons for them - one heavy bomb or 2 light? And torpedos - set them to longer range or faster speed? Use Mark XII or Mark XIV aerial torpedo - again - faster or with longer range. Now it is again "click, click"

Either you spend time and energy trying to make the ultimate hangar load-out or you spend time mastering what is given to you. Either way it's going to come down to what you enjoy the most.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you're new, but if you knew the history of CVs in WoWs you'd probably not wish for more plane customization. It was not so long ago we had more options for plane load-outs on the USN CVs, that was only two options btw. They had to go down to a single load-out because the asymmetry that the alternative could cause in battles wasn't fun for anyone.

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Ad. 1 - So where is it? I can't see any usefull data in game. No informations about penetration, no information about accuracy. In wiki? Not good. In WOT I have everything clear and easy to find. Here I can't find any usefull information and maybe that is one of the reasons why WOW is 10 times less popular then WOT. And I miss this small thing from WOT - indicator if you are able to pen armour or not.

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6 hours ago, Fiold said:

ANy comments guys?

You are pretty much a noob and trying to give advice to the devs - that's bold!

  • Cool 2

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3 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Ad. 1 - So where is it? I can't see any usefull data in game. No informations about penetration, no information about accuracy. In wiki? Not good. In WOT I have everything clear and easy to find. Here I can't find any usefull information and maybe that is one of the reasons why WOW is 10 times less popular then WOT. And I miss this small thing from WOT - indicator if you are able to pen armour or not.

 

The thing with any kind of pen indicator is it wouldn't work in WoWs, mostly because of the flight times of the shells and the ships changing angles. What would be a massive damage broadside or one shot deletion fired at the citadel of a cruiser from 17km can become a bunch of ricochets if the target has turned between the time the shells left the barrel and them hitting the target, that's ignoring dispersion and sheer RNG.

There is a lot of useful information available, having the knowledge to apply it effectively is a matter of experience.

 

WoWs is NOT WoT, it has massive differences and comparing the two is simply impossible.

 

As to the popularity of the two games, there are many reasons, not the least being WoT has had time to build a larger player base and there are just more people interested in tanks than in ships. 

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47 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Ad. 1 - So where is it? 

You can find everything, if you put a lil effort in, heres moskva 4 example :Smile_honoring:

2JrHnm3.thumb.png.cafc7e9428aafb602a5fb497cca7f74b.png

 

Edit: play around in the traning room, now that its nolonger hidden :Smile_Default:

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6 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Ad. 1 - So where is it? I can't see any usefull data in game. No informations about penetration, no information about accuracy. In wiki? Not good. In WOT I have everything clear and easy to find. Here I can't find any usefull information and maybe that is one of the reasons why WOW is 10 times less popular then WOT. And I miss this small thing from WOT - indicator if you are able to pen armour or not.

Penetration is, like I mentioned before, a factor of a number of different properties of guns and shells. Players have mapped out curves for penetration over range, but it's not something you really need except for making theoretical comparisons.

You learn over time what guns work versus what armor at what ranges, that's part of getting better at the game.

For starters you can just go by caliber and ignore other aspects, then as you feel more secure with other aspects of the game you can start looking at the smaller details specific to different guns/shells.

Whether HE does damage is a pretty simple calculation. For most guns it's "caliber/6 -1 = the armor you can do damage through". All KM cruisers and BBs as well as RN BBs get "caliber/4 -1" instead. If you pick up the captain skill "Inertia Fuse for HE shells" you can add 33% more penetration to HE shells.

A good simple calculation to also keep in mind is how much armor AP shells can overmatch (same idea as WOT), which is "caliber/14.33333..."

 

Penetration indicator makes not much sense in WoWs for a number of reasons. Firstly you rarely aim directly at the part you want to hit. Secondly ships feature way way more layered armor than tanks, so a penetration indicator would give very little useful information. You also have a lot of variability depending on where you hit and at what range with impact angles being steeper at long range.

 

The best you can do if you really want to know the intricacies of a certain gun and its capabilities is to just ask or check out some videos of the ship in action with commentary.

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1 hour ago, Fiold said:

OK guys, so my points are:

1. Armor - still I think that it is weak part of the game. I know, that I can check armor in port, but what can I do with it? Nothing...

 

1. Two things you may be missing.

One, you can look at the armour of any ship in the tech tree by selecting it from there. This will allow you to compare how much armour it has in different places compared with ships of the same class and tier, and give you an idea of how good its armour is. 

Two, you can toggle different sections of armour on and off. This allows you to see any armour that might be hidden, for example on the Nelson it looks like 32mm on the sides but if you toggle off the "plating" then you can see the 356mm citadel armour belt beneath that. Toggling sections on and off also allows you to see how exposed a ship's citadel (the vital parts of it, which when hit causes more damage) is and therefore how risky exposing your side is. To use the Nelson again and compare with the Hood you might think the Nelson was more "brawly" as 356mm is more than the 305mm on the Hood, but if you toggle "casement" on and off it becomes clearer that that main armour belt is part of that on the Hood and part of the citadel on the Nelson. Similarly if you compare Montana to Yamato you could think 409mm and 410mm makes them as "brawly", but toggling casement or citadel on and off shows why Yamato players tend to be careful of their flanks, so they avoid exposing the weak points of their ship.

 

4 minutes ago, Fiold said:

Ad. 1 - So where is it? I can't see any useful data in game. No information about penetration, no information about accuracy. In wiki? Not good. In WOT I have everything clear and easy to find. Here I can't find any useful information and maybe that is one of the reasons why WOW is 10 times less popular then WOT. And I miss this small thing from WOT - indicator if you are able to pen armour or not.

 

You replied while I was typing. Information about accuracy is found by mousing over where the main-battery guns are listed for the ship and looking at the value for "Maximum Dispersion" (which is what Wilkatis_LV mentioned as horizontal accuracy at max range). This pop-up also tells you your reload time, turret traverse speed, and other useful things. And you have been told that penetration is harder to calculate in WoWs than WoT so it would have to be a table of values rather than a single value. Points to bear in mind though, which someone will likely take great pleasure in correcting me on if I am wrong:

 

  • The bigger the gun and the closer the range the more armour it can pierce with AP.
  • But AP shells need a certain amount of armour to arm their fuse, so if the fuse doesn't arm you get an overpenetration. This commonly happens with Battleship shells against the broadside of a Destroyer or Light Cruiser.
  • And even if the fuse does arm it still needs time before it explodes, how much depends on whether it is short or normal fuse AP, so it might have passed through a narrow ship or section of ship before exploding and this again an overpenetration. Short fuse AP has less chance of this sort of overpenetration, but as it explodes sooner has less chance of going deep enough in a larger ship to reach the vitals.
  • Conversely HE shells have a maximum thickness of armour they can penetrate which can be 1/4 or 1/6 their size, and which it is could be better documented in game. If they hit armour that is too thick, like a Destroyer shooting a Battleship main armour belt, then they shatter and do no damage, although they can still start fires. So HE shells are better aimed to strike less well armoured parts of ships.
  • AP shells can bounce if the angle they strike the armour at is too glancing, which you should be familiar with. Some ships, such as US Heavy Cruisers, have improved autobounce angles, but this again could be better documented in-game.
  • Rule of thumb would be HE against Destroyers and well angled Cruisers or Battleships and AP against less well angled Cruisers or Battleships as that can score citadel hits. There are a lot of exceptions to that rule though, Yamato and Musashi AP can overmatch other Battleships' bow plating so being head on is much less effective against them, 1/4 penetration HE against lightly armoured cruisers can score citadels and avoid overpenetrations, and so forth. So its a case of seeing what works best for you in that ship in that situation and learning from that.

     

1 hour ago, Fiold said:

2. Customization should give more flexibility to game...

 

2. As said before some ships get different equipment through different hulls and other ships do have the option of taking different guns. The Mogamis were built with 6" triple turrets and those were swapped for 8" dual turrets, and that is reflected in game. Other ships though the customisation seems to come from WG making cash by selling premiums, Scharnhorst or Gneisenau (11" or 15" guns), King George V or Duke of York (catapult or extra AA), Warspite or Queen Elizabeth (the heavier anti-ship guns or the lighter dual-purpose guns you mentioned), and with the free-XP Yamato or Musashi (more AA and dual-purpose secondaries or the triple 6" wing turrets they were built with) and Iowa or Missouri (plane or radar).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd quite like to swap ammo back and forth between Warspite, Hood, and Queen Elizabeth so they all have the better HE shells from the last and a choice of short or normal fused AP depending on whether its a Battleship or Cruiser that wanted a paddling, but I can understand why Wargaming would think that too fiddly and prefer to sell me stuff instead.

 

2 hours ago, Fiold said:

3. Airplanes - yes it would be difficult to balance game with possibility to make your own wings, but it will bring more strategy to game. It could be done in such way - every carrier has number of fighters, bombers and torpedo planes. You can choose weapons for them - one heavy bomb or 2 light? And torpedoes - set them to longer range or faster speed? Use Mark XII or Mark XIV aerial torpedo - again - faster or with longer range. Now it is again "click, click"

 

3. People have asked for the ability to switch between AP and HE bombs during a match rather than when selecting their loadout before this, and I can see where you might want a single heavy bomb against a capital ship and a couple of lighter bombs against a Destroyer (worked well for Henry T. Elrod). One possible complication though is that the Torpedo Acceleration Captain skill does work on aerial torpedoes and that increases torpedo speed at the expense of range (though as the arming time is still the same that means the torpedoes have to be dropped further away if they are moving faster), so if aircraft carriers got a choice of torpedoes then it would either make the skill a waste of points for anyone who'd taken it if the fast torpedoes were already fast enough or could lead to some very fast torpedoes. 

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