Chat ban - small change at least...

[HaachamaShipping]

19 hours ago, robihr said:

they are fail cause for them to work properly they need to move together. if they move together, other 2 caps usually dont have any dd support (unless a game with 4-5 dd). they fail not cause of damage or deadliness they can do, but cause strategically that option is a fail.

dd-s also have to scout so enemy dd cant flank. if you have dd only division they are usually leaving whole side open for enemy to flank. sure you sometimes have good players that can actually play good in dd only division, but that is more of an exception than a rule.

 

It's a fail division if you play that way. But if you cue up in 3 BBs and know how to actually position yourself, it is not necessarily a fail. If you do stick relatively close together, it allows for a more concerted push (provided you go through with it) or you can split up somewhat and create crossfires. It might be worthwhile cueing up as three BBs just alone so you know two other BBs in your team will have balls for sure and will not leave it to you alone to be at the front.

 

For triple DD division, all three sticking together would not necessarily be valuable early on, especially if the game mode is domination. But like with BBs, it helps to know you have 3 semi-decent DDs now, who are often critical to success and hopefully don't all yolo and die or run in circles in the back or do other stupid stuff that is of no use whatsoever. Endgame, when fewer ships are around, it also allows for more coordinated attacks at certain targets, like surviving enemy DDs.

 

Also, certain DDs go quite well together, comensating for each other's weaknesses and strengths. So, unless it's something like triple Leningrad or triple asashio, where you know these are just around for the memes and not for serious gameplay, it isn't necessarily a fail just because the 3 DDs are cued up together.

[biker_618]

Ok, are we discussing deserved/not deserved or punishment by itself... or something else?

 

In first case, problem is abuse with false reports and my solution would be to remove chat report option and use auto chat ban with rich key word database and ticket option for "smart wording" bullies.

 

Second case ... no "light" version of punishment. One of purposes of punishment is "educational" - think before you try to do that next time. Light version is not educational enough ... IMHO   

 

Third case... I`ll pass...

[Zen71_sniper]

27 minutes ago, biker_618 said:

Ok, are we discussing deserved/not deserved or punishment by itself... or something else?

 

In first case, problem is abuse with false reports and my solution would be to remove chat report option and use auto chat ban with rich key word database and ticket option for "smart wording" bullies.

 

Second case ... no "light" version of punishment. One of purposes of punishment is "educational" - think before you try to do that next time. Light version is not educational enough ... IMHO   

 

Third case... I`ll pass...

The topic was neither of the two.

 

It was about the implementation that is bad, there is no valid reason why a chatban should be enforced in port. 

 

How much simpler can I write?

[Sigimundus]

29 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

The topic was neither of the two.

 

It was about the implementation that is bad, there is no valid reason why a chatban should be enforced in port. 

 

How much simpler can I write?

 

I think that chat bun should be enforced not only in a port but also on the forum and in some cases on the whole internet.

 

Then the world will be much nicer and quieter place

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

[lafeel]

Would defeat it's purpose if it wasn't across the entire game. Suck it up, it is only temporary after all.

[biker_618]

1 hour ago, Zen71_sniper said:

The topic was neither of the two.

 

It was about the implementation that is bad, there is no valid reason why a chatban should be enforced in port. 

 

How much simpler can I write?

Than it is the second case because valid reason for existing one is educational.

[morgoroth]

1 hour ago, biker_618 said:

Than it is the second case because valid reason for existing one is educational.

And will there be such "educational punishment" for poor performance (it is quite easy to measure) and lack of team play?

 

Lets say ban from randoms for 24 hours, reduced income in coops?

[MrConway]

On 5/6/2018 at 11:30 AM, Zen71_sniper said:

Well, it finally happened, after 10K games

 

I got chat banned by a fail division for pointing out (really, no swearing, calling names etc) that they threw away a match by camping (oh, yes TX div...). 

 

Anyway, enough was said about how open to abuse is the whole mechanism.  BUT WHY do you block a chat to your clan, your division mates, etc???? I can't even talk to my contacts - while I understand a chatban INGAME, this is in port. Really, really badly thought out, you should at least allow chat in port....

 

 

 

 

As a general rule of advice, when taking to the forum complaining about a chat ban, make sure that your chat history is squeaky clean, or you will attract the attention of myself 

 

The simple fact is that even if all three members of a division report you, you will not be immediately chat banned. If they however push you over the threshold from other reports you have surely received for some of your colourful use of language, then there is little we can do.

 

Having the ban apply everywhere is of course not ideal, but from a technical perspective that is the way the system currently works. Since this only negatively affects the people who break the rules, we are not terribly motivated to invest time into changing this.

 

Cut down on your salt a little and it shouldn't happen again. :)

[aboomination]

12 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Cut down on your salt

[morgoroth]

37 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

As a general rule of advice, when taking to the forum complaining about a chat ban, make sure that your chat history is squeaky clean, or you will attract the attention of myself 

 

The simple fact is that even if all three members of a division report you, you will not be immediately chat banned. If they however push you over the threshold from other reports you have surely received for some of your colourful use of language, then there is little we can do.

 

Having the ban apply everywhere is of course not ideal, but from a technical perspective that is the way the system currently works. Since this only negatively affects the people who break the rules, we are not terribly motivated to invest time into changing this.

 

Cut down on your salt a little and it shouldn't happen again. :)

Comrad Stalin would be proud of you!

[RenamedUser_92906789]

3 hours ago, MrConway said:

If they however push you over the threshold from other reports you have surely received for some of your colourful use of language, then there is little we can do.

I am interested ... what is the treshold (reports/time) and how is it refreshed?

[Hades_warrior]

I didnt want to open new thread about this issue because I know that ''that'' thread subject was here acive many many times so ill say it here..

 

How long will take for weekend players (or any actually) to stop abusing report system? I rarelly have chat ban and when I get it I know its because of my actions in chat against players who doesnt play as they should, but tonight I got chat ban for nothing.

There was 4-5 of our BB's tiers 8-10 runing alone to A objective on map Islands of Ice, you know, A objective is covered with two big white mountains so ships canT cover B objective nor fire at anything for most of the time of match.

I complain on those BB's because anyone would tell them ''*edited*  are you doing up there?'' and I got chat banned...
I could post screenshots with team chat and anyone would clearly see there was no material in my words for ban.

 

When will report system be reworked? Having chat bans every 3rd day isn't fun... (for me 2 times in last 3 days) -.-

 

@MrConway or anyone from Staff? Is this type of system report really the right for you even if you are fully aware its offen abused and basically even people who are not harsh in chat got banned to?

[EdiJo]

On 12.05.2018 at 3:50 PM, MrConway said:

Having the ban apply everywhere is of course not ideal, but from a technical perspective that is the way the system currently works. Since this only negatively affects the people who break the rules, we are not terribly motivated to invest time into changing this.

I understand that is the official WG stance, so is this really how WG treats customers and supporting "free" player base?

You admit that this is "not ideal" (most of people here + me too would call it complete nonsense) - yet you say "you are not terribly motivated" to change this?

Is it really so huge "time investment"? Separate a few flagging variables for different chats or apply the current flag only for in-game part? Impossibru, really? Is the software so poorly written?

 

And it does NOT "only negatively affect the people who break the rules", because we are talking about division and clan chats, and this makes communication harder for the banned guy AND for his friends/clanmates. 

 

I really thought that most of threads on this subject made players point of view quite clear - yet months have passed, and you keep ignoring it? 

 

[ghostbuster_]

5 hours ago, Hades_warrior said:

 

@MrConway or anyone from Staff? Is this type of system report really the right for you even if you are fully aware its offen abused and basically even people who are not harsh in chat got banned to?

I got chatbanned so many times without writing anything in chat.  (I also got chatbanned after raging at some teammembers ofc) thats why if i want to report someone, i use the misbehaviour in chat option. Because it is the only option which actually punish the player in this stupid reporting system in wows.

[Hades_warrior]

Alle 5/14/2018 alle 05:11, EdiJo ha scritto:

And it does NOT "only negatively affect the people who break the rules", because we are talking about division and clan chats, and this makes communication harder for the banned guy AND for his friends/clanmates. 

 

I really thought that most of threads on this subject made players point of view quite clear - yet months have passed, and you keep ignoring it? 

 

But I def agree on this issue affecting and Clan chat. Because of some people who are stuck in boredom while playing and abusing report system, others cant communicate in port via Clan chat. I know most Clans are using TS or Discord but still, be in handycap just because someone was boring is stupid.

WG should separate that, make it that it doesn't affect it.

 

If im not wrong, WG did say something about this issue to be changed, BUT its not their priority at the moment. But, if its STILL not the priority, WHEN it will be...

 

Alle 5/14/2018 alle 07:22, ghostbuster_ ha scritto:

I got chatbanned so many times without writing anything in chat.  (I also got chatbanned after raging at some teammembers ofc) thats why if i want to report someone, i use the misbehaviour in chat option. Because it is the only option which actually punish the player in this stupid reporting system in wows.

I believe that some people may report you by mistake, when they want to report someone else and they missclick on names. When I reporting someone (mostly for AFK or unsport behavior) I check the names correct to avoid reporting wrong persons.

But then again, there are that type of people (the most shallow IMO) who report not just you but your entire Division as they obviouslly have a wish to create tensions between clan mates because 1 of those 3 guys said something in chat that this complainer with reports act like an *edited*

 

I know a guy who had 30 days ban. I was so surprise to hear that. I had no idea you can get that big chat ban, nor even how to earn it.

 

Alle 5/12/2018 alle 16:50, MrConway ha scritto:

 

Since this only negatively affects the people who break the rules,

 

This is not true. There are many players who get chat banned even if they are not using chat or breaking the rules in game at all.

If someone want you to chat ban you just because they dont like you, they will use misbehavior option couple of times until you get banned. Its simple...

[Fat_Maniac]

The simple way to avoid a chat ban is don't use it, no matter what the provocation.

 

Save all your salt and frustration, and vent it in TS or Discord with your clan mates or people you div with.

[Egoleter]

8 hours ago, EdiJo said:

I understand that is the official WG stance, so is this really how WG treats customers and supporting "free" player base?

You admit that this is "not ideal" (most of people here + me too would call it complete nonsense) - yet you say "you are not terribly motivated" to change this?

Is it really so huge "time investment"? Separate a few flagging variables for different chats or apply the current flag only for in-game part? Impossibru, really? Is the software so poorly written?

 

And it does NOT "only negatively affect the people who break the rules", because we are talking about division and clan chats, and this makes communication harder for the banned guy AND for his friends/clanmates. 

 

I really thought that most of threads on this subject made players point of view quite clear - yet months have passed, and you keep ignoring it? 

 

I'm sorry but how would it be a punishment again if you are only prevented from talking to the other team or public port chat?

I'd only see it as an inconvenience at best. It certainly isn't much of a punishment anymore. How would it encourage anyone to change their public chat behavior if you soften it the way you suggest it?

[EdiJo]

1 hour ago, Egoleter said:

I'm sorry but how would it be a punishment again if you are only prevented from talking to the other team or public port chat?

I'd only see it as an inconvenience at best. It certainly isn't much of a punishment anymore. How would it encourage anyone to change their public chat behavior if you soften it the way you suggest it?

It was told many many    many times before. Two reasons stand off:

 

1) with so many false reports WG simply should only restrict to "preventing" part of a punishment, i.e. the punishment should focus on restricting the offender from repeating the same action. Ban for the chat the crime was committed on, nothing else. 

All other parts of punishment, like the "discouraging" function - might be applied ONLY if there are practically no false positives.

 

2) Even IF one successfully filters only true offenders, by blocking also division and clan chats WG punishes also friends and clans, which did not break any rules. Also having "mute" guy in ranked is a problem for his team.

 

BTW even if we assume we filtered out false reports, you can effectively discourage AND prevent also by extending the ban for the in-game chat only, right? Repeating offenders may have in-game chat blocked for weeks and it will solve the problem.

 

The explanation which is given that separating chat bans is very complicated software issue and requires so much manpower to implement ... somehow doesn't appeal to me, sorry. 

 

[Egoleter]

1 hour ago, EdiJo said:

1) with so many false reports WG simply should only restrict to "preventing" part of a punishment, i.e. the punishment should focus on restricting the offender from repeating the same action. Ban for the chat the crime was committed on, nothing else. 

All other parts of punishment, like the "discouraging" function - might be applied ONLY if there are practically no false positives.

Please show me some numbers about these false reports. You make a claim that there are so many of them that they are noticable, yet I only see players getting banned and complaining about it if they are repeat offenders or if they were toxic and insulting in previous matches and the number of reports only added up afterwards. We only ever hear one side of the story on the forums. Yet there are at least two cases in recent history where a Wargaming official called the user out for telling us a fairy tale.

I'm sorry but I don't buy the story about the many players who are innocently chat banned. Not one player I am in closer contact with ever had one. In many tens of thousends of games combined, if they are active in chat or not.

 

1 hour ago, EdiJo said:

2) Even IF one successfully filters only true offenders, by blocking also division and clan chats WG punishes also friends and clans, which did not break any rules. Also having "mute" guy in ranked is a problem for his team.

The user who provoked the chat ban is the one responsible for it. You can not push the responsibility upon Wargaming just because they give you a chat and "a bad team".

If it diminishes the gameplay experience of his clanmates regularly, then those clanmates might want to rethink if they want to play with that person. It is also the "mute guy" who joins the ranked battle. No one is forcing the player to do so. If that player is so concerned about his fellow random teammates, then that player surely knows that it would be best to stay away from that mode while the ban lasts.

[Hades_warrior]

2 hours ago, Fat_Maniac said:

The simple way to avoid a chat ban is don't use it, no matter what the provocation.

 

Save all your salt and frustration, and vent it in TS or Discord with your clan mates or people you div with.

No you cant avoid that by avoiding using chat. If you do something that some your team mate doesnt like, in example of not giving him fire support or not giving smoke cover if you are DD, you will get reported offen. And that leads to bans.

Many players got banned by not even using chat. Thats why this abusing MUST STOP, once and for all.

 

Another example of this is my gameplay from last night. 4-5 of our BB's went alone to A objective on Islands of Ice map to became totally useless for the rest of team (as support because you cant fire trough a wall of mountains) and I get ganned by not insulting even if I should.

[Egoleter]

20 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

Many players got banned by not even using chat.

And here we have another fairy tale.

A report about chat abuse only lowers your karma if you did not write anything in chat. There is no chat ban punishment for silence.

[EdiJo]

3 hours ago, Egoleter said:

Please show me some numbers about these false reports. You make a claim that there are so many of them that they are noticable, yet I only see players getting banned and complaining about it if they are repeat offenders or if they were toxic and insulting in previous matches and the number of reports only added up afterwards. We only ever hear one side of the story on the forums. Yet there are at least two cases in recent history where a Wargaming official called the user out for telling us a fairy tale.

Actually, it is much easier to show that something exists, than that it does not. And you somehow have no problem with discrediting anyone writing here, but at the same time make assumptions based on exactly nothing.

Quote

I'm sorry but I don't buy the story about the many players who are innocently chat banned. Not one player I am in closer contact with ever had one. In many tens of thousends of games combined, if they are active in chat or not.

Nothing - like "not one player I am in closer contact". That's the statistics!  

Quote

 

The user who provoked the chat ban is the one responsible for it.

BS. I am really "toxic" in chat - SOMETIMES - so I've been chat banned quite a few times, I may even agree that some of those were deserved  - sometimes I just don't care, and like to tell what I think about someone.

Anyhow, being "near the threshold" quite often - gives me more insight into who reports me for what. I mean - if it is 1-2 reports which can make me banned, I know reasonably well when I was reported for "chat misbehavior". And, you know? USUALLY I am banned for saying something completely neutral, or by discussing some idiotic behavior although in polite form (because I am not yet whining, but rather trying to really make the guy listen...). Or just for exactly nothing (I am an easy target, because I use chat, so I don't have "said nothing" protection). So I have much better "review" of how many reports are unjustified, than you, who probably doesn't use the chat at all (like many - most? - of good players playing in divisions). 

Quote

You can not push the responsibility upon Wargaming just because they give you a chat and "a bad team".

Of course it is WG responsibility to punish ONLY those who made the offence. How can it be the other way?

Quote

If it diminishes the gameplay experience of his clanmates regularly, then those clanmates might want to rethink if they want to play with that person.

You somehow assume (from the thin air) that 1) all reports were justified  and 2) that clanmates care about what the banned guy said to potatoes in a RANDOM game.

Quote

It is also the "mute guy" who joins the ranked battle. No one is forcing the player to do so.

Hello? It is ban from the chat, not from ranked battles, remember? What more punishment will you invent to the poor guy because he annoyed too many potatoes and/or divisions? No ranked, no clan, no division, "clanmates might want to rethink" and throw him away? You are going way too far - just burn the witch and ban the account, it will be simpler... 

Quote

If that player is so concerned about his fellow random teammates, then that player surely knows that it would be best to stay away from that mode while the ban lasts.

B.S. That is not intended part of the punishment. Chat ban has exactly nothing to do with banning from participating in any type of game. 

[Zen71_sniper]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:50 PM, MrConway said:

 

As a general rule of advice, when taking to the forum complaining about a chat ban, make sure that your chat history is squeaky clean, or you will attract the attention of myself 

 

The simple fact is that even if all three members of a division report you, you will not be immediately chat banned. If they however push you over the threshold from other reports you have surely received for some of your colourful use of language, then there is little we can do.

 

Having the ban apply everywhere is of course not ideal, but from a technical perspective that is the way the system currently works. Since this only negatively affects the people who break the rules, we are not terribly motivated to invest time into changing this.

 

Cut down on your salt a little and it shouldn't happen again. :)

I have really expected a bit more from a community coordinator than this half baked, toe the company line effort.

 

I was not even discussing is the ban valid or not - and I think that everyone knows how easily it is abused. So, let's rather focus on two things that you stated here:

 

1. There is yet another hidden mechanism/threeshold/black magic that WG has implemented and for some reason it keeps it sikrit. WHY? Why don't you publish it - surely it is not so advanced that WG is afraid that someone will copy it? 

 

2. You are saying that you know it is badly implemented, but it is OK, as it doesn't effect everyone - so no big deal. Really? Is that a good attitude? Specially as it is open to abuse?

 

And to all those that are saying that punishment has to hurt - I agree - as long as it logically implemented to prevent transgression. But to put a blanket statement that justifies poor implementation is .... Well, I am not going to finish it, as I might be banned from forum as well.... 

 

 

[Hades_warrior]

4 hours ago, Egoleter said:

And here we have another fairy tale.

There is no chat ban punishment for silence.

Just because you haven't seen it on your eyes or you are Doubting Thomas or it never happen to you at all it doesnt mean its fairy tale.

So other players who says they got chat ban are liars? One guy here today/yesterday said also he got it that way, and he is not the only one.

 

A real fairy tale here is believing how players do not abuse report system.

[Egoleter]

1 hour ago, Hades_warrior said:

Just because you haven't seen it on your eyes or you are Doubting Thomas or it never happen to you at all it doesnt mean its fairy tale.

So other players who says they got chat ban are liars? One guy here today/yesterday said also he got it that way, and he is not the only one.

 

A real fairy tale here is believing how players do not abuse report system.

The patchnotes from November 2016 tell us this:

Reports for misbehaviour in chat will no longer be taken into account by the automatic ban system if the reported player has not written anything in the battle chat before the moment they are reported.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/updates/update-0514-release/

 

That has not changed since then. So you either encountered a bug, which you should properly report, or you are telling a lie.