Yueyang vs Gearing

[MassiveDYT]

I was reading some Reddit threads and came across this comment.

 

"Ok so 260 odd games in the Gearing under my belt and even more than that in the Fletcher - granted I only have about 10 games in the Yueyang (I really need to get back to some of my T10 ships one of these days) and that’s not enough to judge long term performance, but the games I generally have in it are…lewd to say the least (have never died in the ship yet, 9 wins out of 10 matches, still 100k av damage, I feel like a serial killer when I drive it)

Personally I prefer the Yueyang, the Gearing is not a bad ship by any stretch but when you get into the Gearing mindset/playstyle, imo the Yueyang is just a bit better at it, is just more flexible imo

So you have better stealth, always good, you are a bit more agile than the Gearing which is always nice given how fat that thing is (on this subject, the Chung Mu – the PA Fletcher – is sluggish, compared to a Fletcher at least, so when you go from that to the Yueyang, it is a lot more noticeable when you have better agility, even though its not a huge difference to a Gearing) which helps you in knifefights.

Your ship also sits much lower in the water than the Gearing, so no huge and exposed “shoot me here” area of hull that the Gearing has (this makes you harder to hit, less likely to receive BBAP blessing etc). You also get a bit more range on your guns (11.9km on Yue vs 11.1km on Gear). So in all the knifefighting – shooting gun areas, its either the same or better imo. You have the guns, bit more agile, harder to hit, you lose out on a tiny bit of HP but that is it, worth it for the better concealment alone.

THEN, you get the torps. 13.5km is more than enough for anything a useful DD player should be doing, extra knot of speed (you don’t need to take TA on these torps they are invisible already), but these are DW torps, which means your #1 nemesis – scary cruisers – can’t even dodge these, let alone the battleships, they screw them over so hard it isn’t even funny. They can’t hit DDs of course but outside of dumping into smoke that isn’t a huge problem, you still have the roflstomp DPM to melt them up close and if you are really tryhard, you can even mount radar to deal with that problem (in CW you see radar Yue a lot, since no CV)…

Which brings us to smoke, almost reloads as fast as the bloody guns. You basically never have smoke downtime, you also get extra charges. This means that when you want to smoke up to shoot something you can (and you should) and if you need to basically waste a smoke to disengage, you can. You can pretty much always take advantage of your gunpower if you want, which is what you look to try and do in the Gearing as well (but there you have long duration smokes, but they have reload downtime).

Downside to consumables is no defensive AA, but you get spood beest instead, def AA is great and all but honestly it is true that you don’t always see a CV and most these days don’t understand the concept of scouting anyway – but this is pretty much the main point of contention between the 2 ships (thus why you see Gearing in Kots).

The PA DDs kind of feel like a gift to players that have played the USN DD line and mastered it imo, I think some of the scariest players you can come across in game are truly competent DD players but it gets to Freddy Krueger levels when they are in a Yueyang…"

 

I'm mainly a DD player now, I want to have all the tier 10 destroyers. Gearing is one of the T10 dd's that I already own, it is my absolute favorite ship right now, I had trouble at first getting it to work, I tried many builds and finally got experienced enough with her that I started making 100K+ dmg per game consistently.

Pretty neat, but what is actually the story with the Yueyang?

 

Why is it a strictly better version of the Gearing? I mean other DD's really differentiate from one another, Khabarovsk is basically a CA, Shimikaze is torp spammer, Z52 is master ambusher, and Gearing use to be the master knife-fighter, untill Yeuyang came out, which has better stats in every possible way, + its more maneuverable (which is an issue you need to play around on Gearing), plus it's more stealthy - and most importantly it sits so much more lower in the water, I mean just look at this comparison.

 

What gives? :/ What's the point of having a Gearing if Yeuyang is a strictly better ... Gearing. I know it has some differences, like AA skill (which is useless now due to no-CV meta, and wasn't even that useful in the CV meta, a dedicated AA CA was still a better choice than butchering your stats for AA on Gearing)

 

Gearing torps can hit DD's sure, which again is not that useful against competent players outside random battles, and is more of a pleasant but ultimately random occurrence when you do sink a DD with torps, and when you do need to sink an enemy DD with Yueyang - you have those Gearing guns available to you, which freaking reload faster.

 

That being said Yeuyangs torps do the torp duty of sinking larger ships sooo much better due to stealth, great range and great speed (Gearing captains usually run TA in this meta anyway, so the only difference is 3 knots and you have to waste 2 points for it on the commander)

 

So ultimately, can we expect WG to differentiate these ships in any meaningful way, rather than "one is a better version of the other", or ?...

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

Yueyang sits lower in the water and is slightly shorter, thus offers a smaller target profile. She also gets deep water torps which are practically impossible to dodge if you don't do so preemptively or using consumables.

On the flipside DFAA will save your aft in a Gearing (and potentially those of your allies as well) if a CV does happen to be in the match. And unlike with the YY her torps can be used to flush DDs out of smokes or present a viable threat against any DD rushing your own.

Personally I don't believe many appreciate what the Gearing has to offer over the YY. CVs are rare in high tiers, true, but CVs are also by design your worst nightmare. Next to that the biggest threat to you are enemy DDs. Gearing is capable of dealing with every threat to some degree, YY is much more specialized in that regard.

 

In the current BB heavy + no CV meta I can see why many prefer the YY over the Gearing. However even if that warrants a buff to the Gearing (which is debatable), it should be a minor one. Personally I'd just lower the Gearing deeper into the water to give her the same draft as the YY and that's it.

[MassiveDYT]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Yueyang sits lower in the water and is slightly shorter, thus offers a smaller target profile. She also gets deep water torps which are practically impossible to dodge if you don't do so preemptively or using consumables.

On the flipside DFAA will save your aft in a Gearing (and potentially those of your allies as well) if a CV does happen to be in the match. And unlike with the YY her torps can be used to flush DDs out of smokes or present a viable threat against any DD rushing your own.

Personally I don't believe many appreciate what the Gearing has to offer over the YY. CVs are rare in high tiers, true, but CVs are also by design your worst nightmare. Next to that the biggest threat to you are enemy DDs. Gearing is capable of dealing with every threat to some degree, YY is much more specialized in that regard.

 

In the current BB heavy + no CV meta I can see why many prefer the YY over the Gearing. However even if that warrants a buff to the Gearing (which is debatable), it should be a minor one. Personally I'd just lower the Gearing deeper into the water to give her the same draft as the YY and that's it.

Well yeah, I see what you are saying, but even back in the CV meta I was using speed boost rather than DFAA , because it's more versatile in order to dominate the map & in those extremely rare scenarios where a CV is actively trying to flush you out, you just pop speed boost, run away from gun fires due to spotting, and just dodge the torpedoes using speed boost (which Yeuyang is even better at doing that because of the better maneuverability), the use of DFAA is just so debatable, even in heavy CV meta...

 

Sitting gearing lower in the water and giving same draft would definitely be a start tho.

 

That being said, since I'm playing my Gearing as a Torpedo Boat + DD Hunter at the second stage of the game (with radio locator), and it's still a Gearing, you push into the DD's nose first and if they are not another Gearing or Yeuyang (I really don't count Khaba as a DD) they are not gonna last very long, so technically I do not mind Yeuyang that much, however it's still very irritating to know that if I had Yeuyang it would be better in every way regarding my playstyle as a Torpedo Boat + DD hunter (due to better overall stats), with additional choice like radar.

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, MassiveDYT said:

just dodge the torpedoes using speed boost

 

You cannot dodge a perfectly set up cross drop. If you're out without support nearby and a CV wants you dead, speed boost is not going to help you in any way.

Besides, DFAA can be used to save allies as well.

Totally forgot about USN smoke btw, although WG has nerfed that hard with the smoke firing changes.

 

Imo it's enough that YY torps can't hit DDs to compensate. It makes you a much, much worse cap contester and DD hunter. In fact you can easily become hunted yourself as other DDs can rush you without fear and while you may win a potential 1vs1, I'd hope that people are smart enough to not rush a YY without support unless they're sure they can win the ensuing knife fight.

[MassiveDYT]

11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You cannot dodge a perfectly set up cross drop. If you're out without support nearby and a CV wants you dead, speed boost is not going to help you in any way.

Besides, DFAA can be used to save allies as well.

Totally forgot about USN smoke btw, although WG has nerfed that hard with the smoke firing changes.

 

Imo it's enough that YY torps can't hit DDs to compensate. It makes you a much, much worse cap contester and DD hunter. In fact you can easily become hunted yourself as other DDs can rush you without fear and while you may win a potential 1vs1, I'd hope that people are smart enough to not rush a YY without support unless they're sure they can win the ensuing knife fight.

 

Cap contesting is different now in radar meta, if you immediately go for cap and enemy has radars you are dead anyway, so torping DDS is even less important 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

Cap contesting is different now in radar meta

 

In my experience there usually aren't enough radar ships to cover every cap in a match and the few that are there will rarely commit to an early push to flush you out as that makes them prime targets for BBs.

[MassiveDYT]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

In my experience there usually aren't enough radar ships to cover every cap in a match and the few that are there will rarely commit to an early push to flush you out as that makes them prime targets for BBs.

Huh? This is the EU server right? Every single game for the last week I played had 3-4 radars on each team on average

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

Every single game for the last week I played had 3-4 radars on each team on average

 

Meh, I can count the amount of radar ships in my past few matches on one hand.

Maybe you're just lucky. :D

[aboomination]

12 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

Every single game for the last week I played had 3-4 radars on each team on average

[MassiveDYT]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meh, I can count the amount of radar ships in my past few matches on one hand.

Maybe you're just lucky. :D

Trust me... as a DD exclusive player - you notice :P to the point where I completely changed my DD builds and respeced the captains for early game scouting and torping, then mid game to late game capping and DD hunting, DD's who insta rush for caps are dead instantly, what I like to do is scout out the CA's going for the radar push, nuke the BB's behind them, and then DD hunt with the sweet Gearing guns. Gearing in general is very good for this, you feel like you are dominating the match every time and consistently, just that judging by stats Yeuyang is annoyingly better at this... Really all the bags of Pros that the YY has over Gearing does not weigh equally vs the one con of not being able to torp dds :/ if Yeuyang didn't have gearing guns then it would make sense, better torps, radar, lesser profile, but worse DPM or little bit more armor to gearing , or something, now YY just has everything, it literally is a straight up upgrade but annoyingly in a different freaking tech-tree

[MassiveDYT]

5 minutes ago, aboomination said:

 

To prove a point, literally just finished a game while participating in this thread and the enemy had 2 radars, 3 hydros, same story with our team. This was literally the most generous match-up I've seen in weeks regarding radar.

 

I don't think I even had a non-radar related death recently now that I think back over the last few weeks.

 

It's not the problem tho, I like the radar meta because I learned to play around it, this thread is exclusively regarding YY superiority over Gearing

 

[zengaze]

First forum post, where's my champagne, i'm a reader more than a writer, but thought i'd chip in on this;

 

I don't have Gearing, i do have YY, the PA 8-10 were where i picked up the US hybrid style i didn't have the benefit of being able to transfer it over :) I also have Loyang and Anshan, and have 2 PA 19 pointers. This may seem obvious, but the balancing factor to their US counterparts is the Inability to use half it's weaponry, against the one class it most needs to remove from the table, that being it's own, where and when it needs to happen most critically, early game cap contests. Now we could discuss shifting metas and such, but this is an inherent Factual weakness. The YY on paper is a weaker cap securer than Gearing.

 

So what gives with it returning better stats in the current ranked season? Well i suggest some of it has to do with it being A still very young line,  therefore, mostly driven by very, very good DD mains who slotted their Gearing experience right into the YY, and are making the ship shine. I tried the radar build for the first time in ranked, it's hard to give up your smokes, they're like a comfort blanket, but the YY shines even brighter with surfing the edge of the envelope, it's a risky as hell playstyle but the rewards are immense if you have the ability for it. I initially thought the Z would be king of caps for the season, i think it's certainly a prince, but the YY is the grim reaper, it's amazing what falls out of the tree when you shake it with radar, Z's get that rabbit in the headlight look where they blow every consumable they have and realize when that doesn't work run away screaming "nononononono!"

[MassiveDYT]

38 minutes ago, zengaze said:

First forum post, where's my champagne, i'm a reader more than a writer, but thought i'd chip in on this;

 

I don't have Gearing, i do have YY, the PA 8-10 were where i picked up the US hybrid style i didn't have the benefit of being able to transfer it over :) I also have Loyang and Anshan, and have 2 PA 19 pointers. This may seem obvious, but the balancing factor to their US counterparts is the Inability to use half it's weaponry, against the one class it most needs to remove from the table, that being it's own, where and when it needs to happen most critically, early game cap contests. Now we could discuss shifting metas and such, but this is an inherent Factual weakness. The YY on paper is a weaker cap securer than Gearing.

 

So what gives with it returning better stats in the current ranked season? Well i suggest some of it has to do with it being A still very young line,  therefore, mostly driven by very, very good DD mains who slotted their Gearing experience right into the YY, and are making the ship shine. I tried the radar build for the first time in ranked, it's hard to give up your smokes, they're like a comfort blanket, but the YY shines even brighter with surfing the edge of the envelope, it's a risky as hell playstyle but the rewards are immense if you have the ability for it. I initially thought the Z would be king of caps for the season, i think it's certainly a prince, but the YY is the grim reaper, it's amazing what falls out of the tree when you shake it with radar, Z's get that rabbit in the headlight look where they blow every consumable they have and realize when that doesn't work run away screaming "nononononono!"

stop with this "torping the enemy dd's" it's a pipe-dream, u can only torp potatoes, certainly not good players and certainly not consistently. Gearing and Yeuyeng push into enemy dd's 1v1 , runner might try to torp back but its easy to avoid every time, and you can't torp forwards, the "torp while capping" always ends in the same scenario, u get radared and die, its better to scout early then cap after radar is spent. Furthermore, good DD players wont waste torps on caps, they'll boost toward predictable paths to get sneaky torp hits, which is way more guaranteed and you tend to sink alot of CA's and BB's even early if you're lucky, way more consistent than torping cap circles and praying for hit, which is 99/100 times a wasted reload

[StringWitch]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Yueyang sits lower in the water and is slightly shorter, thus offers a smaller target profile

Wait, is Yueyang a Gearing class or an Allen M. Sumner?

[zengaze]

11 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

stop with this "torping the enemy dd's" it's a pipe-dream, u can only torp potatoes, certainly not good players and certainly not consistently. Gearing and Yeuyeng push into enemy dd's 1v1 , runner might try to torp back but its easy to avoid every time, and you can't torp forwards, the "torp while capping" always ends in the same scenario, u get radared and die, its better to scout early then cap after radar is spent. Furthermore, good DD players wont waste torps on caps, they'll boost toward predictable paths to get sneaky torp hits, which is way more guaranteed and you tend to sink alot of CA's and BB's even early if you're lucky, way more consistent than torping cap circles and praying for hit, which is 99/100 times a wasted reload

 

Paper comparisons cannot account for the player skill variable in that sense, so as i said, on paper the gearing is a better shark, and besides, there is no famine in WOWsland. I accept your point that YY may very well be the better boat in a hypothetical equal skilled 1vs1 contest considering the variables of the meta.. As i said, i don't have Gearing, so haven't got that experience. How much value is radar? I run the module, so i have 28 seconds (base is 20 i think), that is just under 10 salvos at 3 secs reload (i run bft which also gives it an AA boost). Actual rez and acquire time, you are more realistically looking at a potential full 8 salvos of damage. It's huge in reality, but scales with player ability.

[zengaze]

3 minutes ago, StringWitch said:

Wait, is Yueyang a Gearing class or an Allen M. Sumner?

Sumner

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Yueyang

[MassiveDYT]

20 minutes ago, zengaze said:

 

Paper comparisons cannot account for the player skill variable in that sense, so as i said, on paper the gearing is a better shark, and besides, there is no famine in WOWsland. I accept your point that YY may very well be the better boat in a hypothetical equal skilled 1vs1 contest considering the variables of the meta.. As i said, i don't have Gearing, so haven't got that experience. How much value is radar? I run the module, so i have 28 seconds (base is 20 i think), that is just under 10 salvos at 3 secs reload (i run bft which also gives it an AA boost). Actual rez and acquire time, you are more realistically looking at a potential full 8 salvos of damage. It's huge in reality, but scales with player ability.

If I had Yeuyang I would not run radar, I would run smoke, and it would be the exact same build that I have now on Gearing, just +base stats across the board + lower profile + stealthier torps + more DPM + more maneuverability + lower detectibility range. + 2 skill point on the commander (because YY comes with TA preinstalled basically)

 

:/

[zengaze]

1 minute ago, MassiveDYT said:

If I had Yeuyang I would not run radar, I would run smoke, and it would be the exact same build that I have now on Gearing, just +base stats across the board + lower profile + stealthier torps + more DPM + more maneuverability + lower visibility range. + 2 skill point on the commander (because YY comes with TA preinstalled basically)

 

:/

I seriously was really hesitant about running radar, but when i thought it through i came to the conclusion that PA smokes aren't that valuable in ranked. Loyang has US smokes, and the hydro/smoke combo is monster, so that is quite different. Randoms are another ballgame, and i'll probably switch back to smokes for randoms, but they're next to useless for smoking up team mates, and the only real useful application i could think for them was to break contact. And yes that is massive, and yes they are ideal for this because of the fast cool down and that's why it's an edge of the envelope style to run without them. But Radar YY  open gunboating is a whole new playbook, and it can be insanely strong.

[MassiveDYT]

18 minutes ago, zengaze said:

I seriously was really hesitant about running radar, but when i thought it through i came to the conclusion that PA smokes aren't that valuable in ranked. Loyang has US smokes, and the hydro/smoke combo is monster, so that is quite different. Randoms are another ballgame, and i'll probably switch back to smokes for randoms, but they're next to useless for smoking up team mates, and the only real useful application i could think for them was to break contact. And yes that is massive, and yes they are ideal for this because of the fast cool down and that's why it's an edge of the envelope style to run without them. But Radar YY  open gunboating is a whole new playbook, and it can be insanely strong.

I would use smoke to finish off BB's after I torp them to secure the kill, with the help of radio locator its easy to position yourself outside radar rangers and DD ambushes and just work at enemy ships with guns. I play my Gearing as a torpedo boat / DD hunter hybrid, with radio locator. Radio locator gives me so much information needed to make aggressive plays, and smoke has a lot of synergy with it, both offensively and as a way to retreat if you goofed. Radar imho works because people just play into it every single time, it's ridiculously easy to play around if you really understand the ranges and timings etc, people just don't bother learning.

 

If you noticed I mentioned YY radar barely, it's not an issue to me personally (altho some people might see it as a tremendous advantage over the Gearing - I don't), the tremendous advantage to me is the base stats, YY even get's extra 700 meters of gun range, something that Gearing kinda struggles with and some people even invest 3 points into AFT just to get it up a little bit.

 

Honestly the more I talk it over the more I feel like YY is an insult to Gearing players. Sure, I'll get the YY, but I just don't see how it's fair to make us get a better version of the ship - but in a different techtree, except for WG profit reasons ofc.

 

Like, think of it this way, if Gearing was a tier IX ship, and Allen M. Sumner was in game as a tier above it at tier X but with the Yueyang stats - it would make sense.

 

People would just look at it - right, +bonus stats across the board, stealthier, more DPM, more maneuverability, -600m torpedo detection... I'll take it! 

 

As a Gearing main, that's how I feel right now.

 

EDIT: hmm, if Yueyang didn't have access to smoke, I could sort of live with it, it would be different enough to justify the difference in stats.

 

 

 

 

[tank276]

7 hours ago, MassiveDYT said:

I was reading some Reddit threads and came across this comment.

 

Ok so 260 odd games in the Gearing under my belt 

 have never died in the ship yet

Is that even statistically possible? Playing 260 games in a ship and never dying?

[TheFierceRabbit]

46 minutes ago, tank276 said:

Is that even statistically possible? Playing 260 games in a ship and never dying?

I imagine that person sees a lot of the map borders.

[Sub_Human]

Specked the Gearing for AA. It sits waiting in my port for a more CV-heavy meta. But untill then I will be driving the YY because its better at everything else. It really doesnt even suffer that hard vs CVs, because of perma-smoke. If your cv backs you up you can be used as a AA platform while you hide in your smoke giving him a small edge in the airfight. He then also spots for you and keeps you from getting torped in your smoke.

Like the OP I was also suprised by my early stats in the YY 10 wins out of 11 

But reality catches up to you in the end...

[loppantorkel]

I like the Gearing but I believe the YY is straight up better. I've posted it before. The advantages clearly outweighs the negatives. Not asking for a nerf, but I can see it happen.

[BeauNidl3]

33 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I like the Gearing but I believe the YY is straight up better. I've posted it before. The advantages clearly outweighs the negatives. Not asking for a nerf, but I can see it happen.

 

To be fair the Gearing could use a little improvement tweak, it is one of the earlier T10 DD's isn't it? Shima got a recent and needed improvement to its base concealment, Gearing could do with sitting a bit lower in the water and a few seconds off its torpedo reload. It's a good ship, but I prefer my Fletcher overall.

I've got the Yueyang researched, I'll buy it as soon as it's discounted or I feel the urge to dump some Elite XP into a Captain.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Gearing has armour and YY is smaller... That's pretty much the difference when they fight head to head. Both have furious firepower.