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wilkatis_LV

Basically snync-queued "Divisions" in Ranked

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Sure it's nothing new - some people queuing up at the same time in ranked to get in the same match

 

But f-ing hell, I'm pretty sure I've seen more of those in the few days that this season has been going for than all the previous ones combined. Almost every single game has 2...4 people of the same clan, often up to 3 in one team. Go and tell me what chances does the other team have playing as 7 randoms versus 3-player division plus 4 randoms?

 

I get random chance of 2 people accidentally getting in the same game - happens. But this isn't just a case of "happens", this is getting straight up absurd

 

 

CB shows us that WG has some system to deny some players meet some others (can't meet the same clan, can't meet the clan you just played against) - why can't Ranked finally get something that straight up makes sure clanmates won't be in the same match? If there are no divisions make sure that stays true.

 

No screenshots as proof? 2 reasons - 1st I just don't screenshot my ranked MM (altho I should have for more than 1 reason but whatever) and 2nd - that would be naming clans / players who do that which counts as naming and shaming.

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Yes, seen it several times. It's absurd the devs would fix the problems in randoms but not to fix it in ranked. I really can't get my head around how stupid you would have to be to fix this problem in one scenario and think it would not happen elsewhere.

 

Same with the retard divisions. They have fixed those in WoT, but we still have them in WoWs. All the intelligent people were saying they should have been banned from the start, but X years later, we still have them.

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its [edited]easy just do not allow 2 of same clan in the same team  (hard constraint)

and 
preferred not even in enemy teams IF MM can take it (soft constraint)

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18 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

its [edited]easy just do not allow 2 of same clan in the same team  (hard constraint)

and 
preferred not even in enemy teams IF MM can take ist (soft constraint)

Exactly this.

 

It's just stupid for whoever has to face against something like that. basically MM shoving a boot up your a**

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20 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

its [edited]easy just do not allow 2 of same clan in the same team  (hard constraint)

and 
preferred not even in enemy teams IF MM can take ist (soft constraint)

This doesn't really solve the problem. I just solves a symptom. If people in the same clan are able to end up on the same side in matches, then anyone can. So, the next step for the cheaters is just to organize cross-clan collusion - which is probably happening already. It's just less immediately apparent.

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I've faced a few of them while still in the T8 ranks or, to be precise, the same clan guys a few times in a row. To their credit I must say that they didn't "rig", neither the one of them that ended on my same team nor those opposing us. Or at least it didn't feel like they did it but played properly for their own stars.

 

Salute.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ranked MM queue already pseudo-protected with a random delay to prohibit counting down synchronized match entering?

If yes, WG could simply increase the delay timeframe to decrease the likelyhood of people trying to exploit the queue.

 

As for hardcoding MM to never put players of the same clan in the same team/match, that is so ridiculously easy to avoid just by not being in a clan and utterly incapable of countering people already doing the same thing whilst not having been in a clan in the first place that the idea should be dismissed as ineffectual entirely from the get-go.

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20 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ranked MM queue already pseudo-protected with a random delay to prohibit counting down synchronized match entering?

If yes, WG could simply increase the delay timeframe to decrease the likelyhood of people trying to exploit the queue.

Actually, it should be a bit different. Instead of random delay, there should be a hidden value around 10-15 seconds (if a queue moves reasonably quickly - it might get longer if the queue is already slow) with a hard rule "no two players that joined the queue within X seconds of each other can end up in the same match".

This would solve the issue completely for peak hours (at least at well populated tier brackets) and probably make it much less severe at less popular times - the value would not be disclosed to the playerbase, so the only way around it would be for players to wait for "bad hours", guess how long it might be that they need to wait to avoid the sync-buster and THEN join the queue in some 15 second intervals...

 

MUCH harder to coordinate than just "3-2-1 BATTLE", much less convenient, much more likely to fail (if the match starts before the interested guys all enter queue or they misjudge the time and the delay between joining ends up too short to save them from being forcibly split between different matches).

 

Basically, such an approach would make sync-dropping the queue too much of a bother to, well, bother. It would also make the queue times slightly longer, but not by that much - with many players joining the queue all the time, it would still be easy to find matches. With few players (due to less populated tier bracket or bad hour) the number of "conflicts" would be pretty low, so it wouldn't be slowing down things too much. The one problem might be a sudden spike in players joining the queue right after a match finishes - a bunch people just clicking "battle on" or however that was called, but I'm sure it's not an insurmountable issue (perhaps the sync-buster could be a bit more lenient towards people who just had a match together and happened to click to return to the queue right away - within a couple seconds, really - after that match finished).

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2 hours ago, Tubit101 said:

This doesn't really solve the problem. I just solves a symptom. If people in the same clan are able to end up on the same side in matches, then anyone can. So, the next step for the cheaters is just to organize cross-clan collusion - which is probably happening already. It's just less immediately apparent.

 

dont think  this will happen 

 

its way to much effort for too little gain.

even the clan thing people just do cause its somtimes fun and convinient enough.

 

high tier people just wont care for that bit of an edge

if low bob clans will do it cause they are desperate it wont be a problem too cause they are so bad they hold no advantage even if on the same side...

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11 minutes ago, Zimbit said:

Everyone does this I think.

 

Just think... Why not?

 

I don't think "Everyone does this", many would consider it a rather lame thing to do. Plus if they manipulate the result being on opposite sides it's cheating.

 

Of course ay mechanic to stop 2 clan members facing each other or being on the same side would have to cope with sister clans and there's no easy way to prevent that. 

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5 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Exactly this.

 

It's just stupid for whoever has to face against something like that. basically MM shoving a boot up your a**

But some clans consist of multiple ones, like the SCRUB one. Technically those subdivision clans are different clans and so the large clans would still be able to meet clanmembers (that are technically in another clan) and the smaller ones couldn't.

That's also unfair and I don't really know how this is gonna be dealt with in randoms?

 

My clan doesn't use any voice and I do come across a clanmember from time to time. I think it adds to the gameplay and the fun-factor, but I can certainy understand why it might be not possible in the near future anymore.

 

But as long as those multiclan clans exist and those still can get into the same matches, this won't help.

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8 minutes ago, Zimbit said:

I think it shouldn't be so hard to implement this. 

 

If there are players from same clan in the same match, either side, simply don't allow.

 

Some clans consist of multiple clans in WoWS, but are basically just ways to get >50 players due to the maximum size of clans.

For those clans it would actually give added benefit to cheat in this way.

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3 hours ago, Tubit101 said:

This doesn't really solve the problem. I just solves a symptom. If people in the same clan are able to end up on the same side in matches, then anyone can. So, the next step for the cheaters is just to organize cross-clan collusion - which is probably happening already. It's just less immediately apparent.

Exactly this.

 

And I don't think it's a significant advantage these days. Frankly, I don't even know why this seems to be so high up the priority ladder to fix? Why is it so important that this feature gets added to the game anyway?

 

Yes I've had such games where several clanmembers multiclicked, but I suppose most didn't rig the game. Personally I think AFK players and maybe even CV rigging is a more important problem.

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55 minutes ago, Zimbit said:

Everyone does this I think.

 

Just think... Why not?

No, not everyone.

Why not? Because that's a d**k move and should be against the rules. No divisions means no divisions, and no exceptions to that

 

23 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

That's also unfair and I don't really know how this is gonna be dealt with in randoms?

 

While annoying, in randoms it just straight up doesn't matter. Ok, they have 6-man division, so what? One more win or lose, does that impact something? If you lose to them - do you lose something (khm star khm)? Randoms are randoms, you just play them without any real goal that you didn't set yourself (like grinding a ship)

 

Do I like it in randoms? No, but it carries little significance there.

 

Meanwhile in Ranked everyone supposedly on a more or less equal ground fight to get up top - and this "screw you we play as a division" is directly against that.

 

30 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

My clan doesn't use any voice

Skipping on the "why tho" part - that would be a rather rare exception. If you are sync-queuing you will be on some voice coms, you will play as a division (when you are on the same side).

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22 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

No, not everyone.

Why not? Because that's a d**k move and should be against the rules. No divisions means no divisions, and no exceptions to that

 

 

While annoying, in randoms it just straight up doesn't matter. Ok, they have 6-man division, so what? One more win or lose, does that impact something? If you lose to them - do you lose something (khm star khm)? Randoms are randoms, you just play them without any real goal that you didn't set yourself (like grinding a ship)

 

Do I like it in randoms? No, but it carries little significance there.

 

Meanwhile in Ranked everyone supposedly on a more or less equal ground fight to get up top - and this "screw you we play as a division" is directly against that.

 

Skipping on the "why tho" part - that would be a rather rare exception. If you are sync-queuing you will be on some voice coms, you will play as a division (when you are on the same side).

I did already try to explain that I didn't think it was a significant problem in randoms. It's exactly as you describe, just get the battle finished and on to the next one :etc_red_button:

 

We don't have a voice server whatever and I don't mind. It's a casual clan.

Sometimes we end up doing this when we want a group of 4 and 3 is the max size. Happens rarely though.

 

I agree that for ranked this behavior is more questionable. For randoms it's more just for kicks (I'd rather hope this to be the case).

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