Izumo, Good, Bad, Buff, Nerf

[HaachamaShipping]

5 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Yes... I wish the KM T10 was a huge 8 gun BB as per KM design proposals. And FdG could have had torps, then again it's alpha would be pretty insane if it rushed you!

 

Zumo feels so slow to steer. It just isn't nimble and that's made worse by the concealment. I'd love it to get the 3rd turret front facing as it could really angle well then. 

 

Oh dear, I'm basically saying buff T9 BBs!

I'd wish the FdG had either more reliable guns, less superstructure or some of the superstructure clad in 32 mm plating. Last would still make it farmable by most HE and Aki AP from side, but would give more bounces from BB AP from the front. It's just infuriating how you get penned when perfectly angled, because not just is the superstructure massive, it is massive enough that it allows for pens. Failing that, at least give it some better secondaries. I think all you get over the Bismarck there is 100 mm range. That's it. Kurfürst at least gets the 105 mm guns upgraded to 128 mm and gets one more turret each of the 150 mm anti-surface and the DP guns per side.

 

5 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Hmmm Fuso is really derpy but weirdly fire resistant and has decent DPM.

 

Nagato has been power creeped out IMO as there are lots of faster BBs at T7 and the lack of decent nose armour (all T7 BB) means that others can hurt you back even without 16" guns. But at least it isn't a Colorado!

 

Amagi can be difficult due to the MM. I've been in many battles where I've had my HP halved at the start by hard hitting higher tiers. But it's the firepower you have yeah and accuracy. Kii simply isn't as good and arguably Amagi is the best T8 BB other than NC. I like the Amagi so much I bought the Perm camo...

Nagato can be hurt back, but it also can hurt back at its tier. For that, KGV and Lyon lack gun caliber, Gneisenau wishes it had the accuracy and broadside of a Nagato and Colorado can match up, but is overall the worse ship. Nagato might end up vs T8 and T9, but it is T7, so MM often puts it vs T5 and T6. And of these, only the Bayern, QE and Warspite can hurt you back when angled. 

[Humorpalanta]

I am finishing it right now. It is a total and utter joke. That ships is nothing but a target.

Positive side: If angled, you can take on BBs.

Negative side: Everything else. I was told its guns are good. Well, nope. Never. I have never experienced anything like this. Broadside Bratwurst 10 km away, next time broadside Moskva 7 km away, and 1 overpen... That's all. Imma sell it ASAP.

[Spunyarn]

14 hours ago, JG4_sKylon said:

Do i save up some more free exp to jump to Yamato directly? Do i use them to get T7Lyon because i hate low tier 20knts BBs?

 

If its the 20 knots that is the problem then I'd point out that the Normandie (Tier VI) can do 28 knots, going up to 29.5 when upgraded, and has the same (to me) irritating arrangement of the forward two turrets so it could be good practice for having to swing the bow a little for the second one to come to bear past the superstructure. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

1 hour ago, Johmie said:

 

If its the 20 knots that is the problem then I'd point out that the Normandie (Tier VI) can do 28 knots, going up to 29.5 when upgraded, and has the same (to me) irritating arrangement of the forward two turrets so it could be good practice for having to swing the bow a little for the second one to come to bear past the superstructure. 

I know WG can't deviate too much but slow BBs are hurting now as there are so many that do 25knots+. From T5 onwards there are multiple high speed BBs available to you. 

 

Wouldn't like to be grinding a Colorado now...

[Affeks]

1 hour ago, Negativvv said:

Wouldn't like to be grinding a Colorado now...

Colorado is great, just saying. 0.66% heal with the now buffed HP is brutal. 

 

Its not fun, but was more than good enough when I played it a month or two ago.

[Tubit101]

The Izumo is an utter piece of crap that was intentionally made to frustrate people into buying their way to the Yamato. Ironically, the Yamato is now also being considered a poor ship after having been powercreeped hard by WG. So yeah, a piece of advice for new players: stop at the Amagi.

 

It's almost as if they intentionally made the Amagi good in order to contrast how bad the Izumo is more heavily.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

44 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Colorado is great, just saying. 0.66% heal with the now buffed HP is brutal. 

 

Its not fun, but was more than good enough when I played it a month or two ago.

Have they fixed the spawns too? Colo used to spawn alone in corners where you either got no damage or got shot to bits on the higher tier maps.

 

I still remember bad spawns on old Tears and getting farmed 

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Wouldn't like to be grinding a Colorado now.

 

Oh boy, and to think I believed grinding through pre-buff Colo twice was bad.

Honestly I'm thinking about buying her back just to see how she performs, but I wouldn't want to spend the free captain exp just to train a new skipper for her.

 

29 minutes ago, Tubit101 said:

Ironically, the Yamato is now also being considered a poor ship after having been powercreeped hard by WG.

 

Yamato is a great BB.

Just utterly boring to play.

 

Remember back when Montana players complained about Yamato being able to overmatch everything, Yamato players told them to just kill everything except the Yamato?

So now when Yamato players like to complain that Monty is capable of killing everything else better than the Yamato, I'd tell them that being able to overmatch BB bows is still such a great advantage that every other weak point of the Yamato is more than justified.

[DJ_Die]

3 hours ago, Affeks said:

Colorado is great, just saying. 0.66% heal with the now buffed HP is brutal. 

 

Its not fun, but was more than good enough when I played it a month or two ago.

I remember playing the good old Colorado before all the buffs.... Shitty guns with very long reload, very little HP, and normal heal... Now its actually a decent ship.

 

My main problem with the Izumo is the fact that it requires at least some cover from teammates because if you get flanked youre in trouble. I just had a game where our gearing decided a Shima with half HP is too dangerous so he ran away and let me get torped...

[NothingButTheRain]

I recently got Amagi, still trying to make it work. I kinda made Nagato work, so I will probably manage in due time with Amagi.

Colorado was to me a less pleasurable grind. The speeds is of course very poor, but having only 8 guns hurts it as well I think. Its armor I found very solid though and it's very manoeuvrable.

 

I really wish there would be a second tier 9 IJN BB tech tree ship to choose from, preferably one of the other designs that Izumo kinda originated from.

There's also that #13 class, I'd very much like to see such a ship in the game! The guns are probably weaker then Yamato's guns as they are an older design?

 

On top of that I think Izumo looks ugly. Yes I also find Nelsen ugly and I sure would not want those Britisch N3 ships for the same reason.

 

They did 'give away' that Yamato HSF camo, which could be an extra reason to want to prefer to get Yamato vs other tier 10 ships. I very much liked it on PTS and also like Musashi (and the sound of those guns are frackin awesome! ).

[AnotherDuck]

21 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I recently got Amagi, still trying to make it work. I kinda made Nagato work, so I will probably manage in due time with Amagi.

Nagato and Amagi don't play the same at all. Amagi is basically taking the best from Kongo, Fuso, and Nagato, and putting them into one ship. You've got the speed and agility of Kongo, the broadside of Fuso, and the guns of Nagato. Gameplay wise it's most similar to Kongo, in that you're good at roaming around the map with the cruisers. You've also got a turtleback that's very effective at close ranges, so it's a great brawling ship as well. I sometimes wait until I'm 6-7 km away from a battleship before I start to turn away, rather than try my luck at a longer range, and even showing a full broadside at that range isn't as risky as it is for other battleships. Or at least I've gotten away with it any time I can think of.

[Humorpalanta]

Izumo's problem is that it is basically a floating HE magnet that cannot return damage. The guns don't have penetration. For 1 penetrarion you pay at least 1 ricochet and 1 overpenetration. Penetration is only when a ship shows perfect broadside and the shell actually hits (because it has terrible shotgun-like guns).

To fix this issue the ship should get better penetration and better RoF. Losing 2-3 seconds could massively help the ship so it wouldn't be far away from T9s... (with FdG that also could get some RoF buff)

[Atorpad]

9 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

Izumo's problem is that it is basically a floating HE magnet that cannot return damage. The guns don't have penetration. For 1 penetrarion you pay at least 1 ricochet and 1 overpenetration. Penetration is only when a ship shows perfect broadside and the shell actually hits (because it has terrible shotgun-like guns).

To fix this issue the ship should get better penetration and better RoF. Losing 2-3 seconds could massively help the ship so it wouldn't be far away from T9s... (with FdG that also could get some RoF buff)

I agree on lack if penetration pretty accurate guns compared to lower tiers but you feel lack of penetration !

I wonder how uss line manages with lower calliber . Do they have better penetration ?!

[AnotherDuck]

4 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

The guns don't have penetration. For 1 penetrarion you pay at least 1 ricochet and 1 overpenetration. Penetration is only when a ship shows perfect broadside and the shell actually hits (because it has terrible shotgun-like guns).

The accuracy is one of the good things about the ship, and the penetration is still fairly good. The ship has faults, but those aren't it.

[Humorpalanta]

4 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

The accuracy is one of the good things about the ship, and the penetration is still fairly good. The ship has faults, but those aren't it.

Are you kidding me? If there is a cruiser bow on to me in Izumo, I can shoot 9-10 volleys and the result: 1 penetration (4-5k dmg), 4-5 ricochets, rest missed. (Sum 90 shells shot). In the meantime that cruiser takes 40k dmg by penetration and starts 4-5 fires easily.

This happened to me in the last month a couple of times.

Izumo vs Moskva

Izumo vs Des Moines

Izumo vs New Orleans (!!!)

Moskva has basically no side armor but Izumo can't penetrate it unless perfect broaside. Broadside Moskva was 5 km away and full shot resulted 1 overpenetration just a week ago.

Izumo is garbage. If Holy RNG favours you there is a possibility for a good match (I have been lucky too), but it doesn't mean that ship is balanced. Give it Yamato penetration or sigma. Musashi got Yamato penetration then Izumo could get Yamato sigma value. And the ship would be perfectly balanced. (Then FdG could get better RoF. Lose 4-5 seconds compensating for the less and smaller guns making it a battlecruiser like ship as german BBs are.

[Aragathor]

8 hours ago, Atorpad said:

I wonder how uss line manages with lower calliber . Do they have better penetration ?!

They have something better, mass. Izumo has an AP shell that weighs 1020kg, the Iowa in contrast has an AP shell with a weight of 1225kg, that's a 205kg difference.

On paper Izumo should have better penetration.

 

24 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Then FdG could get better RoF. Lose 4-5 seconds compensating for the less and smaller guns making it a battlecruiser like ship as german BBs are.

The three older silver T9 BBs have bad stats with WR of below 50%. They do similar damage that is significantly lower than the French and British. WG should look into buffing not only the Izumo, but also the FdG and Iowa.

[Chaos_Umbra]

5 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

The accuracy is one of the good things about the ship, and the penetration is still fairly good. The ship has faults, but those aren't it.

I know it's meant to be accurate, but when I was playing it I must of had constant bad RNG with the dispersion then, though not as bad as the FDG which I found the secondaries much more reliable as a damage source than the actual guns, I kept thinking if only I had the Bismarck's 380mm I would have done some damage at least...

 

Back to the Izumo, the main change it needs is for the No. 3 turret to face the other way (like the original design concepts as it was based on the Nelson class of BBs), when that is done then it can be looked at if the armor needs improving on the deck and casemate.

[AnotherDuck]

1 hour ago, Humorpalanta said:

Give it Yamato penetration or sigma. Musashi got Yamato penetration then Izumo could get Yamato sigma value. And the ship would be perfectly balanced. (Then FdG could get better RoF. Lose 4-5 seconds compensating for the less and smaller guns making it a battlecruiser like ship as german BBs are.

Oh, I definitely agree that Izumo could use a buff or two. I just don't think the guns are one of the bad aspects of the ship. I remember citadelling various battleships at angles I'd normally expect bounces. I find the gun performance to be very good, and bow-on the armour is excellent against AP to pick the other strong point of the ship. Buffing against HE would be an option, and buffing the guns even further could also work (although for the guns I'd probably want a better reload instead).

 

2 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

I know it's meant to be accurate, but when I was playing it I must of had constant bad RNG with the dispersion then...

There is a matter about getting used to the guns if they don't fit your own experience. It was the same for me when I got Missouri (not that Izumo didn't take getting used to, for various reasons, but the guns weren't a problem). With Izumo, I felt that the shots really hit where I aimed, but with Missouri, it felt like a shotgun, and it added to that it ate a lot more damage than Izumo. But later when I got some premium time, I decided to grind some money with Missouri, and then I found the right way to aim, and my games improved immensely. I regularly sniped destroyers.

 

2 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Back to the Izumo, the main change it needs is for the No. 3 turret to face the other way (like the original design concepts as it was based on the Nelson class of BBs), when that is done then it can be looked at if the armor needs improving on the deck and casemate.

Improved armour against HE would be a blessing. The turret, on the other hand, is kind of a mixed bag. I find it more unusual than straight out bad.

[Humorpalanta]

10 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

Oh, I definitely agree that Izumo could use a buff or two. I just don't think the guns are one of the bad aspects of the ship. I remember citadelling various battleships at angles I'd normally expect bounces. I find the gun performance to be very good, and bow-on the armour is excellent against AP to pick the other strong point of the ship. Buffing against HE would be an option, and buffing the guns even further could also work (although for the guns I'd probably want a better reload instead).

 

There is a matter about getting used to the guns if they don't fit your own experience. It was the same for me when I got Missouri (not that Izumo didn't take getting used to, for various reasons, but the guns weren't a problem). With Izumo, I felt that the shots really hit where I aimed, but with Missouri, it felt like a shotgun, and it added to that it ate a lot more damage than Izumo. But later when I got some premium time, I decided to grind some money with Missouri, and then I found the right way to aim, and my games improved immensely. I regularly sniped destroyers.

 

Improved armour against HE would be a blessing. The turret, on the other hand, is kind of a mixed bag. I find it more unusual than straight out bad.

I understand your statement but I envy you those citadel hits. True it has great armor when angled and it's all right. As for HE. It has a huge structure so obviously HE is gonna take big damage on it. And I don't mind it. It is a BB that actually can be damaged by HE and IFHE is not necessity. Works fine. I have far the least shells landed  on the Izumo. Least damage. The output of this ship is questionable. That's why I think a buff would be needed. TBH I want the RoF buff for the FdG that's why I was thinking in sigma and penetration. As Musashi got penetration, Izumo could get the sigma of Yammi. Just a simple thought.

 

I like the turret this way. It's kinda unique.

[AnotherDuck]

4 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

The output of this ship is questionable. That's why I think a buff would be needed. TBH I want the RoF buff for the FdG that's why I was thinking in sigma and penetration. As Musashi got penetration, Izumo could get the sigma of Yammi.

If it's output you want, then RoF is the way to go. But then again, at least for me I do more damage on average than in Missouri. Still can't beat Amagi, which is plainly awesome at dealing damage, and Bismarck, which can add a decent chunk of damage with secondaries.

 

4 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

I like the turret this way. It's kinda unique.

One thing it does is making it easier to shoot around islands and through gaps. If you go around an island, you're going to have your full firepower very quickly. You have relatively flat arcs, so shooting over islands isn't that easy, but you don't need a large gap if you find one.

 

But with high tier battleships, what I really find threw the balance out of whack was lowering so many citadels so low they might as well have turtlebacks. That's one of the main reasons I think FdG feels lacklustre. That extra citadel protection the Germans were supposed to give up their accuracy for? Everyone's got it, without downsides. Except the Japanese.

[Humorpalanta]

8 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

If it's output you want, then RoF is the way to go. But then again, at least for me I do more damage on average than in Missouri. Still can't beat Amagi, which is plainly awesome at dealing damage, and Bismarck, which can add a decent chunk of damage with secondaries.

 

One thing it does is making it easier to shoot around islands and through gaps. If you go around an island, you're going to have your full firepower very quickly. You have relatively flat arcs, so shooting over islands isn't that easy, but you don't need a large gap if you find one.

 

But with high tier battleships, what I really find threw the balance out of whack was lowering so many citadels so low they might as well have turtlebacks. That's one of the main reasons I think FdG feels lacklustre. That extra citadel protection the Germans were supposed to give up their accuracy for? Everyone's got it, without downsides. Except the Japanese.

Hmm, I do more dmg in Iowa and Missouri than Izumo. There are games I don't even get 50 hits because shells just land all over the place.

 

Absolutely agree on citadels. It's hilarious how BBs don't have citadels at all. I mean it's ok for the krauts, sort of ok for the teabags, but freedom citadels are a joke...

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

I have just started playing "Izumo" today (before today I simply never got the time to finally transfer my 19 point Yamamoto captain from "Amagi" to "Izumo" and to start the grind - always there were other priorities that required the "Elite Captain XP" required for such transfer)!

 

I will keep you guys informed (thus far 50% - defeat with 82K damage and defeat victory with 38K damage)...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Humorpalanta]

53 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

I have just started playing "Izumo" today (before today I simply never got the time to finally transfer my 19 point Yamamoto captain from "Amagi" to "Izumo" and to start the grind - always there were other priorities that required the "Elite Captain XP" required for such transfer)!

 

I will keep you guys informed (thus far 50% - defeat with 82K damage and defeat victory with 38K damage)...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Yep, that's Izumo. You better count your hits too.

[Panocek]

21 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

Are you kidding me? If there is a cruiser bow on to me in Izumo, I can shoot 9-10 volleys and the result: 1 penetration (4-5k dmg), 4-5 ricochets, rest missed. (Sum 90 shells shot). In the meantime that cruiser takes 40k dmg by penetration and starts 4-5 fires easily.

This happened to me in the last month a couple of times.

Izumo vs Moskva

Izumo vs Des Moines

Izumo vs New Orleans (!!!)

Moskva has basically no side armor but Izumo can't penetrate it unless perfect broaside. Broadside Moskva was 5 km away and full shot resulted 1 overpenetration just a week ago.

Izumo is garbage. If Holy RNG favours you there is a possibility for a good match (I have been lucky too), but it doesn't mean that ship is balanced. Give it Yamato penetration or sigma. Musashi got Yamato penetration then Izumo could get Yamato sigma value. And the ship would be perfectly balanced. (Then FdG could get better RoF. Lose 4-5 seconds compensating for the less and smaller guns making it a battlecruiser like ship as german BBs are.

Old but gold topic 

 

 

Izumo chart:

Iowa:

 

One reason why Izu might "suck" is very high velocity, thus shells are more likely to exit target before shell goes poof, unlike slow USN shells.

[AnotherDuck]

47 minutes ago, Panocek said:

One reason why Izu might "suck" is very high velocity, thus shells are more likely to exit target before shell goes poof, unlike slow USN shells.

If it's more likely for the shells to overpen, it's also more likely to get citadels if you aim right. Yes, you do get a fair bit of overpens with Izumo (though not nearly as much as with Queen Elizabeth if you use AP on cruisers), but you can make it up since the shots are usually accurate enough to hit citadels, if you aim for them.