Asashio : optional 10km torps

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

29 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Mistake? LOL. Are you drunk? :D

That shippy is hilariously OP. Even if there aren't many BBs. I play with 6 km concealment now and still disrupt not only BBs but DDs too.

If someone isn't a complete noob that ship is absolutely not a mistake. But enjoy your salt I guess.

What salt? I regularly murderdeathkill those poor guys. But keep believing what you will. 

[Aotearas]

Asashio with a choice between the 20km BB/CV only DWT or 10km CA/CL/BB/CV DWTs ... not sure what to say. On one hand I like seeing Asashio's on the enemy team since they're woefully impotent unless I'm in a BB and even then they're only marginally more dangerous than any other DD. On the other hand, I don't quite like seeing them on my team, for more or less the same reasons.

 

Though I'd say that if Asashio would get a different set of DWT that can hit cruisers (or perhaps normal torpedoes entirely) as option, then it the TRB consumble definately has to be in the same slot as the smoke. Imo the only dangerous thing, even against BBs, is the amount of torps the Asashio can put out, completely saturating a corridor. If those torps could hit more targets, then Asashio at the very least has to trade smoke for it.

 

Imho wouldn't even conflict with the Harekaze. That ship's whole shtick is the firepower on a stealthy basis, not exactly a niche the Asashio is going to challenge anytime soon ...

[Captain_Singleton]

it's not like people didn't what it was going to be like before they bought it, every youtuber and his dog did a video about it...

[Aotearas]

16 minutes ago, Salentine said:

it's not like people didn't what it was going to be like before they bought it, every youtuber and his dog did a video about it...

You'd be surprised.

 

Or maybe you aren't but just prefer to think that way in an effort to keep some faith in humanity. Let's just say I've seen plenty Asashios trying to and failing to torpedo cruisers.

[Ferry_25]

Lol. The Assashio debate is entertaining me more and more. Being a BB fan I already know when I have a drooling attack I even know when to roll my face over the WASD keys (in my case the arrow keys but that's just a personal preference) once every 20 seconds in order to avoid those "dreaded torps" by a lightyear. Oh and when my retarded brain is a few seconds late in doing that: heck, I can take 1 torp. I'll hurt but doesn't kill me.

Bottom line: I was interested in A but thanks but no thanks on this one. I'll stick to the DD's already available. Just complimented a Shima some time ago. Playing the BB moron I got caught in a broadside fire so I had to turn away. The enemy Shima managed to flank me and I ate a bu**load of torps, wrecking me in a dev strike. He/ she managed to predict my moves marvelously, thus having to suffer a "Jingles." Actually with pride: rather succumbing to a brilliant move from that DD than having to be shot to *edited* broadside.

My point is: this ship is worthless against me. Having rudimentary tics on my arrow keys (WASD) once every while will deal with this thread easily.

[Sub_Human]

15 ore fa, Ferry_25 ha scritto:

Lol. The Assashio debate is entertaining me more and more. Being a BB fan I already know when I have a drooling attack I even know when to roll my face over the WASD keys (in my case the arrow keys but that's just a personal preference) once every 20 seconds in order to avoid those "dreaded torps" by a lightyear. Oh and when my retarded brain is a few seconds late in doing that: heck, I can take 1 torp. I'll hurt but doesn't kill me.

Bottom line: I was interested in A but thanks but no thanks on this one. I'll stick to the DD's already available. Just complimented a Shima some time ago. Playing the BB moron I got caught in a broadside fire so I had to turn away. The enemy Shima managed to flank me and I ate a bu**load of torps, wrecking me in a dev strike. He/ she managed to predict my moves marvelously, thus having to suffer a "Jingles." Actually with pride: rather succumbing to a brilliant move from that DD than having to be shot to *edited* broadside.

My point is: this ship is worthless against me. Having rudimentary tics on my arrow keys (WASD) once every while will deal with this thread easily.

Im not sure that all people know this. But torping is just as much about other peoples lack of skill as its about your own skill. Its about guessing and luck. The exception being yolo-torping 

[eliastion]

15 ore fa, Ferry_25 ha scritto:

Lol. The Assashio debate is entertaining me more and more. Being a BB fan I already know when I have a drooling attack I even know when to roll my face over the WASD keys (in my case the arrow keys but that's just a personal preference) once every 20 seconds in order to avoid those "dreaded torps" by a lightyear. Oh and when my retarded brain is a few seconds late in doing that: heck, I can take 1 torp. I'll hurt but doesn't kill me.

Bottom line: I was interested in A but thanks but no thanks on this one. I'll stick to the DD's already available. Just complimented a Shima some time ago. Playing the BB moron I got caught in a broadside fire so I had to turn away. The enemy Shima managed to flank me and I ate a bu**load of torps, wrecking me in a dev strike. He/ she managed to predict my moves marvelously, thus having to suffer a "Jingles." Actually with pride: rather succumbing to a brilliant move from that DD than having to be shot to *edited* broadside.

My point is: this ship is worthless against me. Having rudimentary tics on my arrow keys (WASD) once every while will deal with this thread easily.

Actually, you're wrong there.

You see, Asashio is deadly against you (when you sail a BB) - but a ship can only be as dangerous as the player at the helm. 20km torps don't exactly mean that you HAVE to use all that excess range - you can also make use of your Kagero-level concealment, get close, plant a salvo that can't be reacted to unless spotted by Hydro/other ship... basically, against BBs Asashio is like a Kagero, only
 - the torps are stealthier (super-stealthy, in fact)

 - the ship has both smoke AND TRB

 - the torps have longer range

The third option adds situational options for dealing with some "safe spots" where a BB can sit. The previous two are powerful tools. Asashio - if played right - is an absolutely lethal anti-BB weapon.

Her problems are that

1. The range can be useful but it's also a noobtrap that compels people to play it too far from their targets

2. Battleships tend to constitute less than half of the enemy team

[pzkpfwv1d]

I do not see what all the fuss is about the Asashio, she is what she is and is very effective, even with her guns she can cause upsets to other DD's 

Would have pulled the win rate for Asashio for current season but it is not showing in stats 

[HaachamaShipping]

9 ore fa, eliastion ha scritto:

Actually, you're wrong there.

You see, Asashio is deadly against you (when you sail a BB) - but a ship can only be as dangerous as the player at the helm. 20km torps don't exactly mean that you HAVE to use all that excess range - you can also make use of your Kagero-level concealment, get close, plant a salvo that can't be reacted to unless spotted by Hydro/other ship... basically, against BBs Asashio is like a Kagero, only
 - the torps are stealthier (super-stealthy, in fact)

 - the ship has both smoke AND TRB

 - the torps have longer range

The third option adds situational options for dealing with some "safe spots" where a BB can sit. The previous two are powerful tools. Asashio - if played right - is an absolutely lethal anti-BB weapon.

Her problems are that

1. The range can be useful but it's also a noobtrap that compels people to play it too far from their targets

2. Battleships tend to constitute less than half of the enemy team

If you take TA, the torps also have 72 knots of speed. That's just 4 knots shy of the F3s on the Shimakaze and Yuugumo, but double the range. If you torp from 6 km away, it's very unlikely anyone will dodge them if they are not aware of the Asashio being there, given how fast they travel and if they are aware, some skill with prediction and TRB will likely throw out an unavoidable curtain of hurt.

 

Without TA, the 67 knots speed is still very respectable.

 

7 ore fa, pzkpfwv1d ha scritto:

I do not see what all the fuss is about the Asashio, she is what she is and is very effective, even with her guns she can cause upsets to other DD's 

Would have pulled the win rate for Asashio for current season but it is not showing in stats 

Damn those guns. I ran into an Asashio yesterday, one that wasn't dumb (way better than me by stats), which deleted most of our BBs, because noone on that flank seemed to screen or whatever. Anyway, slightly scratched Harekaze vs full health Asashio. Lost a quarter of my health, Asashio dead. Given how terrible Harekaze health is, no, the Asashio guns are not effective, this is the most anaemic gun dpm short of C-hull Harekaze. Just with C-hull Harekaze I'd have to watch for torpedoes and wouldn't be able to just rush the smoke (which the enemy left, being likely aware that I was about to just throw torps in at short range to get an even faster kill).

 

Also shows, "Asashio enforces teamwork". Yeah, no. Taters gonna tate, teamwork is absent as always. Asashio still only hands out torpedoes to enemies, not brains.

[Verblonde]

54 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

 

Also shows, "Asashio enforces teamwork". Yeah, no. Taters gonna tate, teamwork is absent as always.

 

I've been wondering about this. I've only played mine a few times, but the greatest success for me so far has tended to come from going after camping BBs - they're more likely to lack a DD/cruiser screen, and often follow a more predictable course, with fewer WASD hacks.

The more active BBs, that are working in concert with their team-mates, tend to be harder to hit as they're often maneuvering more, plus they have the spotting screen of their smaller brethren to warn of incoming DWTs.

 

The thought occurs that whilst Asashio probably won't have much effect on teamplay on its own side (although I've been pleasantly surprised to see people shooting at the DDs/cruisers I've spotted), it might provide at least some pressure on the red side to work together? I may be completely delusional, of course...

[HaachamaShipping]

8 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

 

I've been wondering about this. I've only played mine a few times, but the greatest success for me so far has tended to come from going after camping BBs - they're more likely to lack a DD/cruiser screen, and often follow a more predictable course, with fewer WASD hacks.

The more active BBs, that are working in concert with their team-mates, tend to be harder to hit as they're often maneuvering more, plus they have the spotting screen of their smaller brethren to warn of incoming DWTs.

 

The thought occurs that whilst Asashio probably won't have much effect on teamplay on its own side (although I've been pleasantly surprised to see people shooting at the DDs/cruisers I've spotted), it might provide at least some pressure on the red side to work together? I may be completely delusional, of course...

So far, I saw no great increase in teamplay, except once, when both teams had Asashio and our Asashio in ranked played torp picket to keep us from being easily torped. Not that a single DD can cover the whole map though, especially not one with 35 knots speed. In every other instance I saw Asashio in, the battle either went on normally (so, not much increase in teamplay), also because at times because potatoes in Asashio just died, but with a competent Asashio on the enemy team, it was far from good teamplay. It's really the same old random battle and at best the odd BB captain having heard of the infamous DD will cry for help, but not get much. as said, in the above game (Tears of the Desert - Epicentre) had most of the BBs deleted because the screen provided was ineffective and neither did they hang too far back nor just camp in one location. They just ate random torps, got devstriked or flooded to death. And you'd think with a Yuugumo and an Atlanta on that flank, it would work better, but well, no. By the time I came over to kill the bugger, the team already had collapsed.

 

As a BB, your best bet is to just hope for the best and hope your smaller vessels find and kill the Asashio, while you try to be relevant without being an easy torpedo target. At best, I can see this to become "teamwork" like with Belfast during its heyday, when a Belfast in the enemy lineup meant every DD would spam the chat at start of battle with "Pls kill Payfast first" and if you were lucky, that happened. Same with other radar cruisers. But with these ships, if radar isn't up, you can just keep them spotted easily as a DD and in general they are more easily spotted, thanks to being gunboat cruisers. And as a BB, you have every incentive to shoot a Belfast or Chapa, because HE spam, flimsy ships, easy exp. Worst case as a DD, try to stealth torp. But what is a BB going to do on its own if the team fails?

 

That's kind of where this logic of teamplay falls apart. The Asashio is not good. It is very limited. It is not a Belfast, having tools for any situation. It is designed to do one thing and it does that like no other ship. With the counter being "teamplay", this ship is dependant not as much on player skill (obviously it takes some minimum skill to know how to torpedo boat), but on enemy incompetence (which btw also is the case to a certain degree for all IJN torpedo boats, which rely on people actually running into those torpedoes). It's why this ship maybe goes into T8 ranked, but certainly not into T8 tournaments or something, where teamplay actually happens. If a team is competent, this ship gets shut down hard. If not, Asashio has a field day. It still relies on enemy cruisers and DDs to die to its team, but even on a loss, you likely got 3 kills and 150k damage or so, topping the scores. And for the BBs that are up against it, not too much changes. You need to be more careful. That's it. Anyone who camped before will camp harder, anyone who is oblivious will just die, anyone who was going to push up intelligently will keep doing that, but with more course changes and speed changes, as hanging back might save your hp, but costs you all influence on the battle. BBs have however no counterplay options other than trying to not be predictable. To a certain degree, even that may fail, because Asashio as stealth boat can just move up and torp a BB that did not see it coming from 6 km, if it lacks the screen, which can happen, because what is teamplay in randoms? And that BB, even if it makes some changes to its course, they'll not be too random, because just because somewhere on that large map an unseen Asashio is prowling, you still angle towards the closest known BB, try to keep your guns in play, not turn around and eat citadels or 20k damage from normal pens. So, if as a BB, your team fails you, you're just an easy kill. And I don't have sympathy for the idiot BBs, but as I don't harbour an irrational hatred for everyone who ever touched T6-10 BBs, I wouldn't wish them the frustration to deal with this crap, just because their team is utter garbage and cannot deal with an Asashio. 

 

This switch from useless to OP (based on enemy(!) competence) is why I utterly hate this ship in this game and consider it the worst addition since I don't even know. Ever. GZ at least was just garbage when it came out. Belfast at least was straight up OP, but was less borderline and even DDs could kill them if they managed to avoid the radar. But this... 

[eliastion]

3 hours ago, Riselotte said:

If you take TA, the torps also have 72 knots of speed. That's just 4 knots shy of the F3s on the Shimakaze and Yuugumo, but double the range. If you torp from 6 km away, it's very unlikely anyone will dodge them if they are not aware of the Asashio being there, given how fast they travel and if they are aware, some skill with prediction and TRB will likely throw out an unavoidable curtain of hurt.

 

Without TA, the 67 knots speed is still very respectable.

No matter how fast the torps are, at 15+ km range the travel time is really long and it would be extremely hard to actually hit a BB that avoids sailing in straight lines with constant speed.

 

That being said, as I mentioned - these are some really good anti-BB torps (as long as you don't insist to fire them at max range all the time). Super-stealthy, pretty fast, quite hard-hitting and, yes, long-range if you really need it for something. Couple that with TRB that doesn't require you to give up smoke, everything on a platform that has Kagero stealth and you have a lethal ship as far as hunting BBs goes. Crippling overspecialization hurts, however - Asashio is a very vulnerable ship - most DDs rip her a new one without breaking a sweat, cruisers are pretty much invulnerable to her, she has no real defense against enemy planes... Her only saving grace whenever faced by something that's not a BB is her concealment - she outspots most threats (often by a pretty comfortable margin, letting her sic her teammates on enemy destroyers). If she couldn't do that, she'd be a disaster.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, eliastion said:

No matter how fast the torps are, at 15+ km range the travel time is really long and it would be extremely hard to actually hit a BB that avoids sailing in straight lines with constant speed.

 

That being said, as I mentioned - these are some really good anti-BB torps (as long as you don't insist to fire them at max range all the time). Super-stealthy, pretty fast, quite hard-hitting and, yes, long-range if you really need it for something. Couple that with TRB that doesn't require you to give up smoke, everything on a platform that has Kagero stealth and you have a lethal ship as far as hunting BBs goes. Crippling overspecialization hurts, however - Asashio is a very vulnerable ship - most DDs rip her a new one without breaking a sweat, cruisers are pretty much invulnerable to her, she has no real defense against enemy planes... Her only saving grace whenever faced by something that's not a BB is her concealment - she outspots most threats (often by a pretty comfortable margin, letting her sic her teammates on enemy destroyers). If she couldn't do that, she'd be a disaster.

I did mention "if you torp from 6 km away", which is not hard to do if you know no DD is around and the BB is on their own.

[eliastion]

11 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I did mention "if you torp from 6 km away", which is not hard to do if you know no DD is around and the BB is on their own.

Indeed, you certainly did mention that.

I guess me missing that (despite going as far as quoting the fragment that contains these words ) is a sign I should've slept more than 3 hours last night...

[Verdius]

I just wish that she was an actual old style IJN DD, aka the old Fubuki but with 2x4 torps instead of 3x3. So with high alpha low RoF guns and torps that are actually dangerous without needing gimmicks like TRB and DW.

WG hasn't made a IJN prem that is appealing to me since Harekaze, and they really dropped the ball with this one.
When I started during Beta I used to love IJN DDs, now after the rework I can't even be bothered to finish the Yuugumo grind.

[fumtu]

No. People who bought Asashio know what they are buying. People who play against Asashio know what they are playing against. You want normal torps - pay Kagero. You want premium Kagero - play Harekaze. Sorry but I don't want to have to guess which kind of torps is it using. While there are some DDs which can choose between different torps only difference is in speed, range and damage. But they are the same type of torps. Not a single one of them could choose between different kind of torps and that is how it should be. If you don't like what WG is selling you that don't buy it, buy something else or wait for something different. But this is definitely no. Tell why didn't you for example ask for late war Kagero class DD which would have only two turrets but more AA? That could be more appropriate choice, sacrifice gun power for more AA.

[TheFierceRabbit]

I like my Asashio as she is now. But having the option of 10km torpedos would give that element of doubt to any cruiser or destroyer wanting to try their luck

[Humorpalanta]

On 2018. 05. 02. at 9:16 PM, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

What salt? I regularly murderdeathkill those poor guys. But keep believing what you will. 

Ok buddy. I'm keep believing all my previously played games in it. LOL.

[MrConway]

 

On 5/2/2018 at 7:08 PM, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Hey WG,

 

Why not just put optional 10km Kagero torpedoes on Asashio ?

 

(could be a second hull, that is like Kagero with either smoke or TRB)

 

Would reduce the salt and sell more ships.

 

 

(as suggested by @Yogibjoern in another thread)

( @Boris_MNE here you go)

( @MrConway think about it)

 

I would not be in favour of this. I am not sure about the balancing considerations of just giving it those torps with its consumable loadout, but above all I want to know what I am dealing with when I meet an Asashio in game.

 

If I meet her in game in a DD or Cruiser and she can either not torp me at all, or be able to delete me with nasty Kagero torps, that would make me very unhappy.

[creamgravy]

No idea why they don't give premium destroyers more torpedo options... oh yeah money!

 

Tier 8 is still devoid of a good torp spammer, how about 12-15km Type 8 (59 knots. 16k damage. 1.5km detect etc) with a low cool down?

[BeauNidl3]

42 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

No idea why they don't give premium destroyers more torpedo options... oh yeah money!

 

Tier 8 is still devoid of a good torp spammer, how about 12-15km Type 8 (59 knots. 16k damage. 1.5km detect etc) with a low cool down?

 

What about Kagero and Harekaze? Both have reasonable torpedo reload and both can mount the Torpedo Reload Booster instead of smoke which is a sensible choice as they have equal best concealment for the tier. I don't agree that T8 is short of a good torpedo spammer.

[StringWitch]

5 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

What about Kagero and Harekaze? Both have reasonable torpedo reload and both can mount the Torpedo Reload Booster instead of smoke which is a sensible choice as they have equal best concealment for the tier. I don't agree that T8 is short of a good torpedo spammer.

Well, for me at least, 3+ launchers is a hard requirement for being a good torp spammer. In the case of tier 8 this would be 3x4, like a straight upgrade over Fubuki/Akatsuki (3x3), which in turn is a straight upgrade over Minekaze/Kamikaze (3x2).

[creamgravy]

Both Mahan (12 every 87s) and Akatsuki (9 every 70s) makes Kagero with TRB look gimmicky.

 

They tried with Ognevoi but it's not the same.

 

[BeauNidl3]

18 minutes ago, StringWitch said:

Well, for me at least, 3+ launchers is a hard requirement for being a good torp spammer. In the case of tier 8 this would be 3x4, like a straight upgrade over Fubuki/Akatsuki (3x3), which in turn is a straight upgrade over Minekaze/Kamikaze (3x2).

You're out of luck then, apart from Shimakaze there are no high tier torpedo boats with 3 mid line torpedo launchers, you will either have to change your personal definition or be permanently disappointed.

Most of the torpedo boats are based on an element of historical fact either built ships or blueprints.

[StringWitch]

5 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

You're out of luck then, apart from Shimakaze there are no high tier torpedo boats with 3 mid line torpedo launchers, you will either have to change your personal definition or be permanently disappointed.

Most of the torpedo boats are based on an element of historical fact either built ships or blueprints.

I don't need them to be centreline; Campbeltown is one of my favourites. But that sort of configuration does get more awkward at higher tiers; I didn't get along with Mahan.

Wouldn't be surprised if there were a prototype draft for Shimekaze with quad launchers that they could make into a tier 9 FXP sink.