What's the use of the Target Acquisiton System Modification 1?

[Mydgard]

Hi!

 

Well I changed from Concealment System Modification 1 to this, there is written you get +20% spotting range. I translated this, I loose -10% camouflage (on DD), but enemies near me will also loose +20% camouflage, for example enemy Shimakaze 5.6 km max camo will change 6.8 km, so I will spot him earlier and all enemies in my range.

 

But enemy Des Moines' and Shimikazes camo stayed 10.5 and 5.6 km, so I do not understand what is the use of this upgrade then? What does mean +20% spotting range technically?

 

Thanks for your answers.

[wilkatis_LV]

Double post?

 

TL;DR would be - it's useless, always take Concealment over it. It's not even a discussion which of those 2 is better

 

---

 

To break them down:

• +50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships
  • Means that your "proximity spotting" is extended by 50% - from 2km to 3km
• +20% to spotting range.
  • Pretty sure that's your maximum vision range. Shima would go from "can see up to 16-ish km" to "can see up to 19-ish km" (don't remember the exact Shimas vision range, but that's approximately close enough). Does not impact at what range you'll see the enemy.
• +20% to the acquisition range of torpedoes.
  • Means that you see torpedoes 20% further - if torp has a detection range of 1km you'd see it at 1.2km

[Fat_Maniac]

Basically what you can see - the white cone on the mini map - is increased by 20%, so you see spotted enemies at a greater distance. The mod does not affect enemy ships concealment values.

 

At least thats the way I understand the module works.

[Capra76]

My understanding was that the main effect is on the assured acquisition range, moving it from 2km to 3km, plus the 20% increase in torpedo detection range.  The 20% buff to spotting range is redundant because no ship has weapons that can reach out beyond their spotting range anyway.

 

Basically the module was meant to be coupled with vigilance as a counter to torpedoes, but the game's moved on so most BB players don't bother with either.

 

 

[NothingButTheRain]

1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Basically what you can see - the white cone on the mini map - is increased by 20%, so you see spotted enemies at a greater distance. The mod does not affect enemy ships concealment values.

 

At least thats the way I understand the module works.

Does this range include the minimum range during cyclones?

[tank276]

1 hour ago, Mydgard said:

Hi!

 

Well I changed from Concealment System Modification 1 to this, there is written you get +20% spotting range. I translated this, I loose -10% camouflage (on DD), but enemies near me will also loose +20% camouflage, for example enemy Shimakaze 5.6 km max camo will change 6.8 km, so I will spot him earlier and all enemies in my range.

 

But enemy Des Moines' and Shimikazes camo stayed 10.5 and 5.6 km, so I do not understand what is the use of this upgrade then? What does mean +20% spotting range technically?

 

Thanks for your answers.

Technically I think @wilkatis_LV is on the spot,

from just a gamer's point I only use it on Grosser Kurfurst cause I dont mind being spotted anyway and it helps with your own torpedo spotting.

But even on the GK it seems questionable at times, i.e. when u need that bit of extra concealment to be able to disengage and go in the shadows if low health and winning on points.

Cheers

[HaachamaShipping]

36 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

The 20% buff to spotting range is redundant because no ship has weapons that can reach out beyond their spotting range anyway.

Two ships in the game have like 16 km spotting range and 20 km torpedo range. Not that you'd take anything other than max concealment build on either of them, unless you hate yourself.

[Loke56]

I have seen DD hunter builds where US or other similar DDs use the extra 1km assured aquisition to attack smoked up DDs.

However, with the german and pan asian DDs with hydro/radar, and the new gun bloom system makes this tactical build useless. 

[wilkatis_LV]

1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Does this range include the minimum range during cyclones?

No, vision range in cyclone can only be increased with radar (as hydro is too short range)

[TheFierceRabbit]

The way I see it and experienced it the "Assured Acquisition of Enemy Ships" is...

 

If you have two ships on either side of a small island with no aircraft or other spotting mechanism available, the ship with the +50% "Assured Acquisition" will see the other ship first.

 

This enables you to proximity spot enemy ships without being spotted yourself.

[eliastion]

8 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

No, vision range in cyclone can only be increased with radar (as hydro is too short range)

A bit of a missed opportunity, really - it would still be an extremely situational module, but I could imagine some BBs, maybe even certain cruisers, picking it for potential cyclone advantage.

Then again, balancing by "useless almost always, extremely useful in that one particular situation" isn't exactly the best way to balance things - not to mention that WG wasn't all that fond of stealth shooting in open water when we last heard of it...

[Aotearas]

Wilki nailed it.

 

Pretty sure that spotting range = viewing/render range. Doesn't help against cyclones. And since most ships have a viewing range that's pretty much appropriate for their engagement needs, you can safely ignore that particular stat (only cases I can think of of that offer marginal benefits is Asashio and Shimakaze with their 20km torps, but you shouldn't be using those on the latter anyway and most people use the Torpedo Acceleration skill for the Asashio anyway).

[SunSkaRe]

Pretty much all said... on above posts

 

Quote

+20% to spotting range.

 

Just replace "spotting range" with "render range"... it has nothing to do with concealment...

Basically its how far game will display an already spotted  enemy ship at max range on your screen (and yes completely useless)

[Crow_Eschatologist]

None.

[eliastion]

2 hours ago, SunSkaRe said:

Just replace "spotting range" with "render range"... it has nothing to do with concealment...

Basically its how far game will display an already spotted  enemy ship at max range on your screen (and yes completely useless)

Small correction AFAIK - while it is mostly synonymous, render range would be purely technical (displaying ships) while "spotting range" actually imposes the limitation that you can't spot beyond it - so even having a line of sight to enemy Yamato that uses her spotter plane and fires her guns, you won't be able to light up the ship if she's beyond the spotting range.

Of course, situations where this matters are few and far between...

[SunSkaRe]

1 hour ago, eliastion said:

Small correction AFAIK - while it is mostly synonymous, render range would be purely technical (displaying ships) while "spotting range" actually imposes the limitation that you can't spot beyond it - so even having a line of sight to enemy Yamato that uses her spotter plane and fires her guns, you won't be able to light up the ship if she's beyond the spotting range.

Of course, situations where this matters are few and far between...

Well the ships are already spoted by someone else... you can see it on minimap but not on your screen.

I call it render range cause its easier to understand then spotting range (with this giving the wrong idea that you can spot ships further then their actual concealment)

[eliastion]

1 minute ago, SunSkaRe said:

Well the ships are already spoted by someone else... you can see it on minimap but not on your screen.

I call it render range cause its easier to understand then spotting range (with this giving the wrong idea that you can spot ships further then their actual concealment)

When you say "render range" then you're giving the wrong idea that you can spot ships outside this distance (lighting them up for your allies that might not have a clear line of sight).

[BeauNidl3]

6 hours ago, Loke56 said:

I have seen DD hunter builds where US or other similar DDs use the extra 1km assured aquisition to attack smoked up DDs.

However, with the german and pan asian DDs with hydro/radar, and the new gun bloom system makes this tactical build useless. 

 

On a DD (other than Khaba, maybe, but Steering Gear is more likely if not Concealment mod) it's flat out useless as concealment is life to DD's.

 

Essentially the Target Acquisition mod is useless to everyone.

[SunSkaRe]

32 minutes ago, eliastion said:

When you say "render range" then you're giving the wrong idea that you can spot ships outside this distance (lighting them up for your allies that might not have a clear line of sight).

 

Hardly... render range only affects you... its like draw distance in graphic options (have nothing to do with spoting or concealment... only the max distance you want your computer to display stuff)

Now bringing the sentence "20% more spoting range"... thats confusing... (at least for me makes no sense)

 

 

[Humorpalanta]

TBH I don't remember ever using it. (Maybe Bismarck, maybe.) Practically useless now. Always take concealment.

It could be a bit buffed.

4 km range of minimum acquision of ships,

+2 km visibility in cyclon (vice versa - so it is actually a buff and a nerf too)

+20% torp acq.

And then I would actually take it on some ships.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

28 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

TBH I don't remember ever using it. (Maybe Bismarck, maybe.) Practically useless now. Always take concealment.

It could be a bit buffed.

4 km range of minimum acquision of ships,

+2 km visibility in cyclon (vice versa - so it is actually a buff and a nerf too)

+20% torp acq.

And then I would actually take it on some ships.

 

But we don't need anymore DD nerfs. And this would be one.

[eliastion]

2 hours ago, SunSkaRe said:

Hardly... render range only affects you... its like draw distance in graphic options (have nothing to do with spoting or concealment... only the max distance you want your computer to display stuff)

Precisely. You're arguing against yourself now.

Spotting range in WoWs doesn't only affect you - you can't spot enemy ships outside it even if their concelament indicates that you should. They are close enough/visible enough to be spotted by you but your ship isn't capable of spotting at that distance, so you don't spot them at all - they remain thoroughly invisible for your team, there could just as well be an island between you and them.

[Tungstonid]

11 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Double post?

 

TL;DR would be - it's useless, always take Concealment over it. It's not even a discussion which of those 2 is better

 

As others said, it depends on whether you want to be seen or not. I have it on my Yamato because f* stealth builds on BBs...

 

10 hours ago, Capra76 said:

My understanding was that the main effect is on the assured acquisition range, moving it from 2km to 3km, plus the 20% increase in torpedo detection range.  The 20% buff to spotting range is redundant because no ship has weapons that can reach out beyond their spotting range anyway.

It is not necessarily about having weapons which then can reach the enemy. It might also give you an advantage in case an enemy is spotted outside of your normal render range, so you can see the status of his ships, e.g. in regard of her health pool left if you can't/don't want to rely on your team mates for this information.

[SunSkaRe]

56 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Precisely. You're arguing against yourself now.

Spotting range in WoWs doesn't only affect you - you can't spot enemy ships outside it even if their concelament indicates that you should. They are close enough/visible enough to be spotted by you but your ship isn't capable of spotting at that distance, so you don't spot them at all - they remain thoroughly invisible for your team, there could just as well be an island between you and them.

 

Its like we're talking different languages lol

 

As I said render range/draw range/ whatever you want to call it range  has nothing to do with your ability to detect enemy ships... 

Imagine an ally spot a ship at 20km... you see it on minimap but cant see it on the screen cause your draw range is lets say only 16km

 

Now spoting/detecting is linked to concealment...

 

 

You telling me render range makes people think they can detect ships further is like saying if they go to settings and set draw distance to max they will start spoting shimas ingame at 20km

But again... I dont even know what we are arguing about. All I pointed out is that since that module was introduced to the game its description has been missleading people.

[eliastion]

1 hour ago, SunSkaRe said:

As I said render range/draw range/ whatever you want to call it range  has nothing to do with your ability to detect enemy ships... 

Yes. Render/draw range has nothing to do with your ability to detect enemy ships. Which is precisely why this value can't be correctly called "render range" or "drawing range".

 

Let me give you an example.

You are in a DD with 16km spotting range.

There is a BB that just fired and has range 22km, giving him 22km concealment range.

 

If he's within 16km of you, you'll spot him alright.

If he's further than 16km but closer than 22km, you won't spot him. Not just "not render", he will remain unspotted. You won't see him, your allies won't see him. If he shows as the red outline on the map, it's because someone else is spotting him BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT CAPABLE OF DOING THAT. Despite being close enough to be within his concealment circle.

 

Maximum spotting distance rarely becomes important - still, it's a value that does exist in the game, is ship specific and is exactly what the useless module in question improves. It won't have any effect in 95% of your matches and the effect won't matter in the remaining 5%, sure, but still - it's a limit on your ship's ability to detect enemy ships.