Cruisers get deleted by battleships too easily

[Deckeru_Maiku]

12 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I've played cruisers and battleships up to a decent tier level...

 

No, you have not.

One T6 cruiser.

Two T4 BBs

 

So it's not a thing about upgrades or anything, but probably just a LTP thing.

[Chaos_Umbra]

The only reason that cruisers get deleted so easily is that there is always 5 BBs on the enemy team shooting at you as soon as your spotted, there is almost no way to mitigate fire from all 5 when they are shooting from different angles. In fact the most fun game I had recently was one where there were only 2 BBs on each team and 2 DDs and it was great fun in a cruiser as you could actually dodge incomming fire.

 

[FearsomeFlotsam]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not trying to be funny but 320 games isn't nothing. If an average game played lasts 15 minutes, then that's 80 hours played. A lot of games don't get 80 hours played in total, or even half of that. I appreciate I don't know everything about the game, but at the same time I didn't switch it on yesterday.

Anyway, a few things bother me:

1) In a game, you shouldn't have to take measures that make the game arduous to play in order to succeed. That's bad gameplay mechanics. And yet I constantly see other players lurking around at the back of the map especially near the start of the game. If you have to waste long periods of every game waiting for somebody else to catch all the flak, that's not really a good thing.

2) I'm wondering if some of the replies are from people who play high tier rather than mid-tier cruisers. Is it possible higher tier cruisers don't have this issue so much?

3) When I look at the mix of other players who survive to the end of games I'm in, cruisers rarely seem to make it - unless they've really been camping it up at the back of the map. That's not a good sign to me.

 

I'd be interested to see the stats on what ships get played the most at mid-tiers. It seems like every lobby I get into is absolutely crammed with BBs trying to play.

[Chaos_Umbra]

3 minutes ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not trying to be funny but 320 games isn't nothing. If an average game played lasts 15 minutes, then that's 80 hours played. A lot of games don't get 80 hours played in total, or even half of that. I appreciate I don't know everything about the game, but at the same time I didn't switch it on yesterday.

Anyway, a few things bother me:

1) In a game, you shouldn't have to take measures that make the game arduous to play in order to succeed. That's bad gameplay mechanics. And yet I constantly see other players lurking around at the back of the map especially near the start of the game. If you have to waste long periods of every game waiting for somebody else to catch all the flak, that's not really a good thing.

2) I'm wondering if some of the replies are from people who play high tier rather than mid-tier cruisers. Is it possible higher tier cruisers don't have this issue so much?

3) When I look at the mix of other players who survive to the end of games I'm in, cruisers rarely seem to make it - unless they've really been camping it up at the back of the map. That's not a good sign to me.

 

I'd be interested to see the stats on what ships get played the most at mid-tiers. It seems like every lobby I get into is absolutely crammed with BBs trying to play.

Well it tends to be Battleship players that camp at the back which reduces their effectiveness, as for cruisers camping it is more common in the higher tiers cause you can easily get 1 shot from any direction, though for most cruiser lines the endurance improves after tier 8 with tier 8 being a low point for cruisers as they tend to get tier 10 games, and all the tier 10 cruisers are very strong. As for the mid tiers you can be much more aggressive but you have to pick you positioning based on the ship, make sure your not getting focused from both sides and use the slim and agile ship to mitigate any incoming fire. The reason for all the cruiser hanging back is that there are always 5 BBs on each team most of the time, but when you get that 1 game with only 2 BBs per team you get to experience the game as it's supposed to be. There is a reason that there are a lot of destroyers as of late, they are all ex cruiser captains that got fed up being 1 shot and switched to something without a citadel. As for lasting till the end game as cruisers are more fragile they do tend to not survive, however staying healthy until the late mid game in one allows you to be more active as the number of BBs has thinned out by then.

 

As for the high number of BBs in the mid tiers the last ship line added was the French BBs so that also contributes to their abundance on top of every potato want to play one.

[EdiJo]

3 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not trying to be funny but 320 games isn't nothing. If an average game played lasts 15 minutes, then that's 80 hours played. A lot of games don't get 80 hours played in total, or even half of that. I appreciate I don't know everything about the game, but at the same time I didn't switch it on yesterday.

You're right, but your experience is spread among multiple ship classes and tiers. You have only ~130 games in tier 5-6, and you play only cruisers there, so you don't know "how the other classes think"...

3 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Anyway, a few things bother me:

1) In a game, you shouldn't have to take measures that make the game arduous to play in order to succeed. That's bad gameplay mechanics. And yet I constantly see other players lurking around at the back of the map especially near the start of the game. If you have to waste long periods of every game waiting for somebody else to catch all the flak, that's not really a good thing.

Dropping skill level is the problem in WoWS, yes. It is not about the mechanics, it is rather about rewarding - it is possible to "die your way up" and potatoes advance only a few times slower than the best players. 

3 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

2) I'm wondering if some of the replies are from people who play high tier rather than mid-tier cruisers. Is it possible higher tier cruisers don't have this issue so much?

At tier 5 you just left the "protected area" where you only could face opponents 1 tier higher. Now often you fight vs +2 tier ships, and T7 BB can do nasty things to a T5 cruiser regardless of what the cruiser does. 

3 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

3) When I look at the mix of other players who survive to the end of games I'm in, cruisers rarely seem to make it - unless they've really been camping it up at the back of the map. That's not a good sign to me.

It depends. The survival is (usually) not the target in this game - so some ships tend to have lower survivability for example because they play most effectively at knife-fight distances. 

Later you get more defensive mechanisms like consumables, speed, armor - but also boats which are trying to sink you are more powerful - so it is more up to team play and individual skill. 

3 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

 

I'd be interested to see the stats on what ships get played the most at mid-tiers. It seems like every lobby I get into is absolutely crammed with BBs trying to play.

http://eu.warships.today/  - I like the interface here more, but lately it is not very reliable

http://wows-numbers.com/ - this one is usually working

 

 

[GeneralSavage]

T5 and T6 cruisers are extremely vulnerable, regardless of what you do, unless you use island cover to shoot. As many have said, keep doing WASD and make yourself unpredictable. I find plenty of cruisers doing WASD, angling and so on but in the end their turning pattern is usually.....predictable. Heck, I get reported every so often because they can't believe how they got one shotted despite all that turning. That way, BBs typically at this tier won't be able to land a heavy blow on you. RNG may still not be too kind to you but don't forget that it is the same for everyone.

Had a look at the cruisers that you play and let me tell you that all of them are very. very. vulnerable. That is, unfortunately, a characteristic weakness that you have to deal with while playing them. You play ships with good manoeuvrability and range. Utilize that and as mentioned, keep using WASD. Forget about angling with these ships. They will not bounce even a rubber ball. 

 

[FearsomeFlotsam]

Well, I just got into another game with Konigsberg, I think there were six BBs per team; I got 2/3 of my health taken away with a single stray BB shell; the first four ships to die were all cruisers. I'm completely done playing cruisers in this game.

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

7 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not trying to be funny but 320 games isn't nothing. If an average game played lasts 15 minutes, then that's 80 hours played. A lot of games don't get 80 hours played in total, or even half of that. I appreciate I don't know everything about the game, but at the same time I didn't switch it on yesterday.

Anyway, a few things bother me:

1) In a game, you shouldn't have to take measures that make the game arduous to play in order to succeed. That's bad gameplay mechanics. And yet I constantly see other players lurking around at the back of the map especially near the start of the game. If you have to waste long periods of every game waiting for somebody else to catch all the flak, that's not really a good thing.

2) I'm wondering if some of the replies are from people who play high tier rather than mid-tier cruisers. Is it possible higher tier cruisers don't have this issue so much?

3) When I look at the mix of other players who survive to the end of games I'm in, cruisers rarely seem to make it - unless they've really been camping it up at the back of the map. That's not a good sign to me.

 

I'd be interested to see the stats on what ships get played the most at mid-tiers. It seems like every lobby I get into is absolutely crammed with BBs trying to play.

1. Awp in cs. Also not broken, just requires a different approach to deal with. 

2. Nope. Mogami, Ibuki and Donskoi say hi. 

3. Cruisers are probably the hardest class to master, but they can be super dominant if a player knows what he is doing. 

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Well, I just got into another game with Konigsberg, I think there were six BBs per team; I got 2/3 of my health taken away with a single stray BB shell; the first four ships to die were all cruisers. I'm completely done playing cruisers in this game.

Konigsberg isn't known for his armor, not many cruisers are. And even those can be crippled or instantly deleted as well. There is a reason why Iowa/Missouri are known as the best T9 cruisers in game

 

Battleships being the most famous, having durability, firepower, even game economy favors them - they can deliver a lot of hurt in single salvo, but killing one usually takes a lot of effort, making battleships least desirable targets unless you can focus half of the team on one and/or stuff them full of torpedoes.

 

And WG wonders why battleship overpopulation is a thing for two years by now

[VC381]

9 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not trying to be funny but 320 games isn't nothing. If an average game played lasts 15 minutes, then that's 80 hours played. A lot of games don't get 80 hours played in total, or even half of that. I appreciate I don't know everything about the game, but at the same time I didn't switch it on yesterday.

Anyway, a few things bother me:

1) In a game, you shouldn't have to take measures that make the game arduous to play in order to succeed. That's bad gameplay mechanics. And yet I constantly see other players lurking around at the back of the map especially near the start of the game. If you have to waste long periods of every game waiting for somebody else to catch all the flak, that's not really a good thing.

2) I'm wondering if some of the replies are from people who play high tier rather than mid-tier cruisers. Is it possible higher tier cruisers don't have this issue so much?

3) When I look at the mix of other players who survive to the end of games I'm in, cruisers rarely seem to make it - unless they've really been camping it up at the back of the map. That's not a good sign to me.

 

I'd be interested to see the stats on what ships get played the most at mid-tiers. It seems like every lobby I get into is absolutely crammed with BBs trying to play.

 

Try playing LoL or DotA2 or any MMO for 80 hours and say on their forums you think you have a basic grasp of the game... you'll get flamed into orbit. Online games can have quite complicated interactions that take time to learn. Aside from really basic shooters, WoWs is quite low on the complexity ladder, but unfortunately it still requires quite a bit more investment than you have. If you don't have the time or patience that's completely understandable, but then you need to lower you expectations. Maybe stay at lower tiers or play classes that don't frustrate you.

 

Anyway:

 

1) there are mechanics in game that are not great. The problem you've identified here has been discussed many times but the community is divided on a solution. Ultimately, people will play badly no matter how the game is designed so you just have to ignore it and do your best. It is possible to play cruisers without feeling like you're shackled by your team.

 

2) T5/6 and T8 cruisers have it worst, it's not a high/low tier thing really. Having said that, some T5/6 Cruisers can be very good at the "boring but effective" style of spamming HE at max range. Konigsberg is actually one of those, as are the French. Of course there are nuances and ways to play more effectively but if you want basic, functioning and fairly easy to play cruisers you've started in the right place.

 

3) yes and no. Cruisers aren't easy to play and many people, like you discovered, are getting deleted. It is possible to play mid tier cruisers aggressively but you have to understand your role and know your limits. It's easier to start by playing safe at the back and gradually build up to making bolder moves. Again, your expectations of how quickly you can learn this are probably misplaced.

 

Some people "get" cruiser play quickly, others get it only after thousands of games, some never. First step is to stop thinking the problem is with the ships or the game. Positioning, situational awareness, smart dodging, it sounds like you're trying to do most of this but just need to get better at it. But if you're just hitting your head against a brick wall and not enjoying it then maybe you're right, don't play cruisers. Or don't play those tiers.

[Excavatus]

The thing with the cruisers, You don't have too much space to make a mistake and recover from it.

You have to ... sorry.. HAVE TO keep an eye on the minimap and your priority target skill AT ALL TIMES!

I salvo from broad side.. you are toast..

 

But that doesn't mean Cruisers are UP or Bad,

High skill cap? sure. But a good cruiser can carry battles better than BBs.

 

BBs afraid of you, because of fire, DDs. afraid of you because.. well you rape them..

CVs afraid of you ,because it is hard to hit CAs and most of them had good AA,

 

For , the major problem with Cruisers are, they need to be versatile but most of them are not..

US line, they need to Hide behind an island and lob shells.. They are too squishy.. 1 shell from a bad salvo will make their day bad! But when they find an opportunity to rain on me.. I hate that DM.

Lets wait and see what happens on the other line of the US.

UK cruisers.. they HAVE to HAVE their smoke.. Spotted UK cruiser is a dead cruiser.. I citadel Minatours with HE on my roon, day and night.. but when they spot me from their smoke.. OMG I have the sight of that raining UK AP from the sky.

 

right now, only the german and french Cruisers look like to have some degree versality. I've never played Japanesee over furry taco but I believe they have it too..

 

Think it like this.

You found yourself a same tier BB, 1vs1 in your cruiser. Do you afrait to take on it? or you start to grin and sail on to it..

I tell you what I say, taking general BB captain window licking performance into the account, If I get 1vs1 with a same tier, or even high tier BB, I start to sail towards it.. Because I usually rekt them :)

 

[Panocek]

49 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

The thing with the cruisers, You don't have too much space to make a mistake and recover from it.

You have to ... sorry.. HAVE TO keep an eye on the minimap and your priority target skill AT ALL TIMES!

I salvo from broad side.. you are toast..

 

But that doesn't mean Cruisers are UP or Bad,

High skill cap? sure. But a good cruiser can carry battles better than BBs.

 

BBs afraid of you, because of fire, DDs. afraid of you because.. well you rape them..

CVs afraid of you ,because it is hard to hit CAs and most of them had good AA,

 

For , the major problem with Cruisers are, they need to be versatile but most of them are not..

US line, they need to Hide behind an island and lob shells.. They are too squishy.. 1 shell from a bad salvo will make their day bad! But when they find an opportunity to rain on me.. I hate that DM.

Lets wait and see what happens on the other line of the US.

UK cruisers.. they HAVE to HAVE their smoke.. Spotted UK cruiser is a dead cruiser.. I citadel Minatours with HE on my roon, day and night.. but when they spot me from their smoke.. OMG I have the sight of that raining UK AP from the sky.

 

right now, only the german and french Cruisers look like to have some degree versality. I've never played Japanesee over furry taco but I believe they have it too..

 

Think it like this.

You found yourself a same tier BB, 1vs1 in your cruiser. Do you afrait to take on it? or you start to grin and sail on to it..

I tell you what I say, taking general BB captain window licking performance into the account, If I get 1vs1 with a same tier, or even high tier BB, I start to sail towards it.. Because I usually rekt them :)

 

French, German and Russian cruisers simply have range to breathe in BB heavy games. IJN can carry out stealth torping on tier 8 and 9 and they have plenty of metal fishes on board. Their speed is handy as well, if anything its tad disturbing for Mogami/Takao outrun dedicated torpedoboat like Kagero, while carrying comparable torpedo payload and then healthy amount of 203/155 guns

[GarrusBrutus]

@DangerousDave2k do you have a replay from one of your games? And if you'd like we could watch it and comment with some tips and tricks. Not to burn you down but only to give you some constructive criticism. 

[_LordLucan]

mid tier cruiser play in games  full of bbs and dds a nutshell

 

option 1) try to support your local DD at the start of the game, it spots the red DD, you open fire, the DDs smoke up, your targeted by count goes to 7, you cant get out of spotting without a 180 turn. or reaching the smoke and torps its likley to contain..pray for happy rng you are likely going back to port

 

option 2) don't bother about supporting DDs, if the red DDs are better than the green ones yolo back to port, if the other way around you get to BBQ BBs for 10 minutes and collect a win

 

[piritskenyer]

As a cruiser main, I can only say this:

 

Welcome to the suck.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

19 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

1) In a game, you shouldn't have to take measures that make the game arduous to play in order to succeed. That's bad gameplay mechanics. And yet I constantly see other players lurking around at the back of the map especially near the start of the game. If you have to waste long periods of every game waiting for somebody else to catch all the flak, that's not really a good thing.

2) I'm wondering if some of the replies are from people who play high tier rather than mid-tier cruisers. Is it possible higher tier cruisers don't have this issue so much?

3) When I look at the mix of other players who survive to the end of games I'm in, cruisers rarely seem to make it - unless they've really been camping it up at the back of the map. That's not a good sign to me.

 

I'd be interested to see the stats on what ships get played the most at mid-tiers. It seems like every lobby I get into is absolutely crammed with BBs trying to play.

 

#1 - not a problem of the game, but of too many potatoes in the game who don't have a clue of game mechanics and sometimes even think that damage has to be costly repaired...

 

#2 - some high tier cruisers are more vulnerable than some mid-tier cruisers. Not all cruisers are the same. Nürnberg and Königsberg for example can be citadelled by snowballs, some mid-tier russian cruisers are citadelled by nasty looks thrown at them and others are nearly uncitadellable *looking at you, Cleveland...* What really makes the difference is the skill and experience of the people controlling the cruiser.

 

#3 - of course few cruisers survive a battle. They are the ones doing all the work, together with DDs. BBs just idle along at the back, trying to not get shot at - repair bills, remember? - and often do just nothing.

 

 

[Kenliero]

On 2.5.2018 at 11:48 PM, Yogibjoern said:

I only use priority target on all my cruisers, as soon as I see a number at the detected icon I WASD hacks all I can.

Same. Never leave port without priority target when sailing cruiser. I've even used it in my Khaba at some point. It is a must skill for cruiser.

[El2aZeR]

Oh, look, just 5 cruisers trying to kill me.

Spoiler

 

I had the time of my life.

Spoiler

 

Please also note that I took only ~6k non-repairable damage in exchange.

 

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

Just a tip for the OP that he may already know, that i use all the time playing cruisers. I never used the "Incoming fire alert" skill only "Priority target" that should be mandatory on all cruiser captains. The minimap is youre lifeline, more in this class then any other i would say. It tells you where youre support is or isnt (in many cases), it tells you which islands are great to hug to be able to stealthburn down BBs from and most of all, its pretty much a free incoming fire skill at most times, because if youre spotted and suddenly you see a enemy BB pop up on the minimap, you can be pretty certain that he just fired at you, specially if you show a bit of broadside to him. So as soon as this happens just slow down and turn and this will help you dodge a whole lot of incoming damage.

 

Playing a strong line is always good as well, so i would definatly recommend Germans, its the strongest cruiser line imho, whith Hinden being the strongest T10 that can punish T10 BBs from 17-19k with spotterplane and firespam och delete the up close in a cyclone with torps and AP.

[B010011A]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:47 AM, DangerousDave2k said:

Well, I just got into another game with Konigsberg, I think there were six BBs per team; I got 2/3 of my health taken away with a single stray BB shell; the first four ships to die were all cruisers. I'm completely done playing cruisers in this game.

Its a matter of time that you'll get bored of the boring meta of BBs and you'll come back to the fun & squishy cruisers :D im talking by experience.

 

I started in Open Beta grinding the IJN cruisers and I found myself to be a disaster cause i didnt understand well the mechanics, captain skills and modules well enough (even after 1K+ games).

So trust when people is telling you that 300 games are nothing for the complexity of the game itself.

Im still learning to be better after 6K+ games.

But back on track with cruisers: once you get comfortable with a single ship and make it work, even if its a BB, cruiser or Destroyer, dont move to an upper tier and play that or those ships. Because that will help you improve your skills and learn better the game, thats my tip. And after you mastered this or those ships, you'll start enjoying the game really much.

 

Dont do what I did, that was going up the tiers no matter what, cause i hated really much cruisers back then and started grinding IJN BBs haha. And now i enjoy them the most.

[GhostRiderMax123]

In all honesty with a cruiser if you sit on the same course and speed and sit broadside on to a BB you will get punished and as a player of nearly all ship classes im totally fine with that. Now that being said I am of the opinion that cruisers could use a heal of sorts to help keep them in the fight a little longer. 

[mandrakethe]

Hello, I never post, but I love cruisers so much I had to defend them. 

 

You need to think of cruisers as the HARD difficulty setting for his game. Imagine you'd never played an FPS before but you pick one up and start playing it one hardcore difficulty, that's a bit like cruiser play in wows, although it doesn't explicitly say that. 

 

Play more games, learn the fundamental mechanics, play some of of every class. I'm approaching 2000 battles and I'm just getting properly into the swing of things. I started with cruisers and just persevered until I figured it out.. (A few so called OP cruisers helped mind..)

 

Cruisers played well in my opinion is the most satisfying this game can be. 

 

Good luck. 

[StringWitch]

On 02/05/2018 at 8:54 AM, jcol said:

Never open fire if you are broadside to a bb

I've done this deliberately and baited some real potato shots out of BBs by changing speed rather than direction. While playing Indianapolis I found speed changes matter more than your broadsideness since a good hit will disable most cruisers anyway and can be struck at any aspect. Turns are often predicted and intermediate-experienced BB players are better at aiming at such common manoeuvres and awkwardly angled cruisers than ostensibly plainer targets.

[B010011A]

On 4/5/2018 at 5:37 AM, El2aZeR said:

Oh, look, just 5 cruisers trying to kill me.

  Hide contents

 

I had the time of my life.

  Hide contents

 

Please also note that I took only ~6k non-repairable damage in exchange.

 

Because i wasnt there with hindenburg or zao haha 

Edit: oh, its a tier6-8 bracket :/ Even tho i would've done more damage with chappy than those 4-5 cruisers thst were focusing on you haha