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FearsomeFlotsam

Cruisers get deleted by battleships too easily

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I've played cruisers and battleships up to a decent tier level, but have grown increasingly frustrated with the former, because they get deleted far too easily by the latter. You have to employ all sorts of dodgy, fun-ruining strategies to not get deleted as a cruiser, like tiptoeing around at the back, not starting until 30s after everybody else does, creeping out from behind islands only to scurry back like a frightened mouse when the nasty BBs spot you, only to lose 2/3 of your HP from a single stray shot before you can get there. It's just not fun at all. And even if you are extremely careful (this is supposed to be a game, right?), there is always the chance of being randomly obliterated by a battleship somewhere on the horizon that you didn't notice. Playing cruisers has just become a miserable experience. IMO they should nerf the damage that battleship shells do to cruisers by at least 1/3. I'd happily trade that for reduced fire starting for cruiser shells on battleships.

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Hey Dave, have you tried using the Priority Target and Incoming Fire Alert captain skills? They give you an idea when people are aiming (and shooting) at you.

This will give you a much higher chance to dodge their salvos using the wasd keys. 

The most effective way to dodge is full reverse and turn away from the trajectory of the incoming shells, using this will almost certainly make the salvo go past your ship. 

 

It is true that at the start of the match you should play a little bit precautious as a cruiser because of the heavy hitters aka BBs. Cruisers start being most effective at the later stages of the game. Thats because there will be less ships around and you can avoid incoming shells better. So it is best to preserve your HP pool as much as possible for the later stages of a battle.

But as the game unfolds and you have preserved your HP for a great deal you can start a more aggresive approach. 

 

Hope this helps. Cruisers are a hell of a lot of fun if you know how to play them, so keep at it! :cap_like:

 

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I dont mind to get punished if i Position bad with a cruiser thats how it works but lately some things go very strange some Players seems to have 0 Dispersion and delete cruisers from 20km when every shot fired goes on spot.

 

Example: DM showing front to French BB 20 km away get deleted by 1 salvo, 6 from 8 Shells fired hit the front and 3 of them citadel.

Moskwa 55k hit in the front from Missouri. Skillz?(i dont think 43% WR 700XP 30k average dammage Player) Nuub Bonus? or Lucky shot of the year (day) i dont know but this is what makes me mad when you work hard to move around Position yourself and get deleted no matter what.

 

On the other side when i Play BB and fire 9 Shells on a broadside target 15km away the Shells spread out like an umbrella and maybe 2 or 3 hit for Overpen.

(and yes i know how to aim)

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[ROT8]
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I do agree with OP to a certain point, when rng goes against you, you get punished no matter what you do but....

As OP is only up to tier 6 he still has a lot to learn.

Playing a cruiser is all about timing and map awareness ie. When to open fire, when to turn, when to push etc....

Never open fire if you are broadside to a bb, you have to check minimap a lot, turn first and then shoot while kiting away at an angle.

Hold your fire to get unspotted to reposition.

Try to fire at BB's that are distracted.

If a DD is spotted, focus him first.

Try to engage enemies over 12km to 15km away while kiting, this gives you time to manoeuvre to avoid incoming shots.

Go on YouTube and check out, Flamu, Flambass etc... They have good reviews of most of the cruises and watch how they play them.

Stick with it OP I am a cruiser main and they do have a major role in the game and can be rewarding when everything goes smoothly

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Supertester
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Cruisers are hard to play but I think you need a bit more practice with positioning and dodging before you make a sweeping statement like that with only 320 battles played. As was said above, use Priority Target and/Or Incoming Fire Alert. It's also easier to dodge when you're at full speed than poking in and out of island cover. Each cruiser has a different optimum range for dodging and doing damage back. You have to develop a 6th sense for where those BBs you can't see are and how to move to not get randomly splatted. It's all it is I'm afraid, cruiser play is demanding and not for everyone. I'm regularly playing T8 cruisers in T10 battles and I'm rarely if ever on the receiving end of a devastating strike, and if I am I know it was my fault or at least I accepted that risk with whatever move I made.

 

And please take the tin foil hat off about RNG and dispersion bias. I had a game in Atago where my rudder was locked full left with no repair at 8km from a Yamato. He missed three salvos and I sunk him with torps. Any other day I should have exploded. Weird stuff just happens sometimes, doesn't really mean anything.

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[PARAZ]
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1 hour ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I've played cruisers and battleships up to a decent tier level, but have grown increasingly frustrated with the former, because they get deleted far too easily by the latter. You have to employ all sorts of dodgy, fun-ruining strategies to not get deleted as a cruiser, like tiptoeing around at the back, not starting until 30s after everybody else does, creeping out from behind islands only to scurry back like a frightened mouse when the nasty BBs spot you, only to lose 2/3 of your HP from a single stray shot before you can get there. It's just not fun at all. And even if you are extremely careful (this is supposed to be a game, right?), there is always the chance of being randomly obliterated by a battleship somewhere on the horizon that you didn't notice. Playing cruisers has just become a miserable experience. IMO they should nerf the damage that battleship shells do to cruisers by at least 1/3. I'd happily trade that for reduced fire starting for cruiser shells on battleships.

 

Too bad, you chose the wrong shipclass.

 

If only you found BB's ate citadels too easy, WG might consider tweaking the BB citadel scheme once again... :Smile_sceptic:

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Alpha Tester, Players
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i like CA more then bb , and sure at some tiers ca strugle , but t9-10 with heal way more better ^^ and all these BBQ , how can you not love it :P

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[CAIN]
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Cruisers are fine and so is the damage output of BBs.

 

Cruisers are meant to be squishy but have the RoF and BBs are heavy hitters.

 

If you have probs with survivability use islands for cover and WASD hax and make sure you position yourself correctly.

 

Except for CVs, the classes are pretty well balanced (with a few exceptions) against each other. 

 

Besides, a minor decrease in fire chance will Cruisers not make any less BBQ kings.

 

 

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2 hours ago, PapVogele said:

No no, BBs are too weak! Too much RNG!

RNG isn't exactly a good thing, you know?

Good player, know how to aim? RNG screws you over. Potato with no clue about aiming? RNG takes those shells to the target. You're at 10km? Enjoy missing 3 salvos in a row with 0 hits scored. You're at 30km with your range build BB? How about you land an average of 8 shells out of every 10 fired?

 

As stupid as it sounds less RNG and slightly more accuracy would actually make BB gameplay more skill based rather than current "pray for your RNG"

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[OGHF]
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Try going down the RN CL route, like playing a DD but without the ability to burn other ships, shame really but would would love to see HE on RN CL’s. Down side is that  it can take just 1-2 single BB rounds to delete you.

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52 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Cruisers are meant to be squishy but have the RoF and BBs are heavy hitters.

 

Cruisers might have the RoF but BB have the alpha, BB have similar DPM to most cruisers, but have the benefit of extra penetration from the higher caliber on top of armour, heal, HP etc.

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[T_D_G]
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You only have 320 games played. Dont expect to play well cruisers, that are the most punishable ships when you fail at sailing them. I suggest you to go for BBs and learn game mechanics before you keep crying about that they are too fragile. Today i did 81K damage and 4 kills in a game with Phoenix, where we still loss and you know: phoenix is a floating citadell... So its all about playing the role well.

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

RNG isn't exactly a good thing, you know?

Good player, know how to aim? RNG screws you over. Potato with no clue about aiming? RNG takes those shells to the target. You're at 10km? Enjoy missing 3 salvos in a row with 0 hits scored. You're at 30km with your range build BB? How about you land an average of 8 shells out of every 10 fired?

 

As stupid as it sounds less RNG and slightly more accuracy would actually make BB gameplay more skill based rather than current "pray for your RNG"

I know this mate, but removing RNG on BBs would require massive balancing otherwise they’d be OP and noone would play anything else...

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Supertester
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45 minutes ago, PapVogele said:

I know this mate, but removing RNG on BBs would require massive balancing otherwise they’d be OP and noone would play anything else...

 

Nope, it would make half the BB players ragequit because they can't hit anything at long range. Any cruiser that's awake could dodge every salvo every time.

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[-TPF-]
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Cruiser hints: don't sail in straight lines. Angling is not always a good option as the lighter ships can't bounce shells off their armour, if you're under fire from a BB try and be at right angles to their guns. Know your ship, too - especially the gun arcs. The ones with high arcs are usually HE spammers from behind cover. If you've not tried the French line of cruisers, do - they're versatile, fast and quite well armed.

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6 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I've played cruisers and battleships up to a decent tier level, but have grown increasingly frustrated with the former, because they get deleted far too easily by the latter. You have to employ all sorts of dodgy, fun-ruining strategies to not get deleted as a cruiser, like tiptoeing around at the back, not starting until 30s after everybody else does, creeping out from behind islands only to scurry back like a frightened mouse when the nasty BBs spot you, only to lose 2/3 of your HP from a single stray shot before you can get there. It's just not fun at all. And even if you are extremely careful (this is supposed to be a game, right?), there is always the chance of being randomly obliterated by a battleship somewhere on the horizon that you didn't notice. [...]

 

You are right to some extent.

 

However I can tell you that the higher tier ships get a good deal tougher. You won't magically survive good BB AP volleys, those are still gonna hurt mad, but your armour gets a lot more bouncy when angled, your citadels are typically a bit harder to hit and with more HP the occasional unlucky citadel hit still hurts, but you won't be instantly crippled in the fighting department, especially at tier IX and X when you get heal.

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6 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I've played cruisers and battleships up to a decent tier level, but have grown increasingly frustrated with the former, because they get deleted far too easily by the latter. You have to employ all sorts of dodgy, fun-ruining strategies to not get deleted as a cruiser, like tiptoeing around at the back, not starting until 30s after everybody else does, creeping out from behind islands only to scurry back like a frightened mouse when the nasty BBs spot you, only to lose 2/3 of your HP from a single stray shot before you can get there. It's just not fun at all. And even if you are extremely careful (this is supposed to be a game, right?), there is always the chance of being randomly obliterated by a battleship somewhere on the horizon that you didn't notice. Playing cruisers has just become a miserable experience. IMO they should nerf the damage that battleship shells do to cruisers by at least 1/3. I'd happily trade that for reduced fire starting for cruiser shells on battleships.

Well cruisers, mostly doesn't have much armor, so yes dodging is part of the playstyle, much like destroyers for whom stealth, cover and agility is the way of the game.

 

Well if you lose so 2/3 then there is quite a few possibilities.

You are flashing broadside to enemy battleships, thus resulting in heavy punishment - well deserved by the way.

You are not paying attention to being flanked by battleships and the result is somewhat you get mostly deleted - again, learn 2 play, awareness is important. 

 

And no, no damage nerf, they have very long reload time. You simply need to learn how to angle the ship, paying attention to the battle around you and play smart, use cover as an form of advancement or plainly to gain somewhat protection ,though watch out for high arch shells, as they can and will hit you even behind islands, against incoming attack. Cruisers are indeed able to bounce battleships shots due to the bounce mechanics ingame. If you are interested in learning more about such and many more mechanics, then there is pleanty YouTubers you there you might learn from. A personal favorites is Flambass and Ichase

 

And judging by the few battles you have played, there is still plenty to learn, so instead whining about nerfing certain types ships, look for ways to improved, to learn how to react to incoming fire from battleships.

 

Best o luck henceforth

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Takes a while to learn cruiser play properly and you are always learning... every game.  But it is very rewarding to top the scoreboard in a tier 6 in a tier 8 game or derivatives of the MM.  Map awareness and WASD hax combined with knowing your ships capabilities and your enemies ships foibles will help you overcome other classes and more importantly perhaps help you enjoy cruiser play, good luck!  :Smile_honoring:

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7 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Hey Dave, have you tried using the Priority Target and Incoming Fire Alert captain skills? They give you an idea when people are aiming (and shooting) at you.

This will give you a much higher chance to dodge their salvos using the wasd keys. 

Hm, don't think it's neccessary to spend points on these skills.
Instead use the simple rule: The moment the "spotted" symbol lights on, keep using WASD until its off again for a while.

And spot the sky for incoming fire to figure out where enemys are and what enemys there might be if you can't see them (fire rate tells you much).

Don't make repetetive moves on the battlerfiled (which become predictable).

Time your turning when BBs have just fired.

Keep enemy BBs at your cruisers max range unless they are alone - then you can try to ambush / rush.

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2 minutes ago, StupidRhino said:

Hm, don't think it's neccessary to spend points on these skills.
Instead use the simple rule: The moment the "spotted" symbol lights on, keep using WASD until its off again for a while.

And spot the sky for incoming fire to figure out where enemys are and what enemys there might be if you can't see them (fire rate tells you much).

Don't make repetetive moves on the battlerfiled (which become predictable).

Time your turning when BBs have just fired.

Keep enemy BBs at your cruisers max range unless they are alone - then you can try to ambush / rush.

 

It's not necessary, that's how I did it before PT (I didn't use IFA), but it sure reduces workload and that's always a good thing. Only 1 point spent is not a waste, what other row 1 skill are you going to get on a cruiser?

 

Everything else you say is correct.

 

But just WASD randomly when spotted makes you slower and easier to hit. Better to have the extra information to know when it's safe to sail in a straight line to maximise speed. Also at low tier BBs are easily spotted and you can check where their guns are pointing. At high tier you can be in death radius of 5 ships you can't even see, and constantly checking the sky in a wide cone is not practical.

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1 hour ago, StupidRhino said:

Hm, don't think it's neccessary to spend points on these skills.
Instead use the simple rule: The moment the "spotted" symbol lights on, keep using WASD until its off again for a while.

And spot the sky for incoming fire to figure out where enemys are and what enemys there might be if you can't see them (fire rate tells you much).

Don't make repetetive moves on the battlerfiled (which become predictable).

Time your turning when BBs have just fired.

Keep enemy BBs at your cruisers max range unless they are alone - then you can try to ambush / rush.

Incoming fire alert, nah maybe not. I dont use it although it can be handy at higher tiers. But priority target is a must in my opinion on all cruisers.

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I only use priority target on all my cruisers, as soon as I see a number at the detected icon I WASD hacks all I can.

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10 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I've played cruisers and battleships up to a decent tier level, but have grown increasingly frustrated with the former, because they get deleted far too easily by the latter. You have to employ all sorts of dodgy, fun-ruining strategies to not get deleted as a cruiser, like tiptoeing around at the back, not starting until 30s after everybody else does, creeping out from behind islands only to scurry back like a frightened mouse when the nasty BBs spot you, only to lose 2/3 of your HP from a single stray shot before you can get there. It's just not fun at all. And even if you are extremely careful (this is supposed to be a game, right?), there is always the chance of being randomly obliterated by a battleship somewhere on the horizon that you didn't notice. Playing cruisers has just become a miserable experience. IMO they should nerf the damage that battleship shells do to cruisers by at least 1/3. I'd happily trade that for reduced fire starting for cruiser shells on battleships.

Easy fix. Grind to Hindenburg.  Play as you want and devestate BBs from a far, up close, how ever you want!

 

Only Cruiser in the game i fear in a BB is Hindenburg.

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