Team Damage penalty and Torpedos.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

18 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The situation is not nice, but it might remind you to be more careful in the future. That teamkill was completly avoidable from your side.

The issue is the system behind it - by WGs own rules I have to risk now playing DDs by the simple fact that non on my team is allowed to even touch a torpedo by me or others - since there is no pardon system that allows players to forgive own or others mistakes. If I had known that the guy would mean a 3 day ban I straight up had gone max range and farmed damaged at 1 or 10 line.

 

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

The issue is the system behind it - by WGs own rules I have to risk now playing DDs by the simple fact that non on my team is allowed to even touch a torpedo by me or others - since there is no pardon system that allows players to forgive own or others mistakes. If I had known that the guy would mean a 3 day ban I straight up had gone max range and farmed damaged at 1 or 10 line.

 

I play my DD and other torpedo ships every time like that. It is not hard to avoid hitting friendlies...

And DD like Yudachi are not good at farming damage from max range.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

Here is the issue with WGs own rules: Where does it say how much damage I have to cause on purpose/by accident after the player had received a ban. If the shown damage above means that I have to just cough at someone to getting banned again then I don´t understand how half the low tier filled with new players that I witness on a daily base isn´t banned then. Only someone from WG can tell me or others how much damage they caused so far or how much is needed to get someone banned - these are the reasons why I made this thread alive again.

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Here is the issue with WGs own rules: Where does it say how much damage I have to cause on purpose/by accident after the player had received a ban. If the shown damage above means that I have to just cough at someone to getting banned again then I don´t understand how half the low tier filled with new players that I witness on a daily base isn´t banned then. Only someone from WG can tell me or others how much damage they caused so far or how much is needed to get someone banned - these are the reasons why I made this thread alive again.

It is not an absolute, fixed number.

As I said, you were probably on probation. That is why you were treated more harshly than it is usual for a teamkill. Just be careful. Then you are fine.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It is not an absolute, fixed number.

As I said, you were probably on probation. That is why you were treated more harshly than it is usual for a teamkill. Just be careful. Then you are fine.

What I don´t like is how support replies to tickets like this. Why can´t support tell me exactly in my ticket how much team damage I caused, the torpedo damage I dealt since I started playing this game or tell me the exact time when this friendly DD bit the dust - or as mentioned - told me the moment I got banned the first time how much damage I am allowed to deal without spending my next 3 days not in WOWS.

You mention the probation - this is what I mean - this should apply to everyone that deals with this issue. I will drop DD´s if WG can´t answer me the above cause I can´t risk getting banned cause of unanswered questions.

The moment I would read that the support tells me that minute YXZ he saw me do that and caused this I would know that they looked into it - my last 5 tickets had been 1:1 auto replies and something like this makes me feel like support doesn´t treat me as customer as much as I would expect to - so I indeed question that they even looked that the replay.

[Verblonde]

1 minute ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

I will drop DD´s if WG can´t answer me the above cause I can´t risk getting banned cause of unanswered questions.

The vast majority of my games (75%ish the last I checked) are in DDs, and I'm not a very good player (48% overall WR ditto); despite that, I have never been banned completely, and not even banished to Coop only (turned orange).

 

To even be banished to Coop takes a spectacular level of team damage, and to be doing so consistently.

 

There is no need to drop DDs; just apply a bit of caution and forethought before firing torps...

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

The vast majority of my games (75%ish the last I checked) are in DDs, and I'm not a very good player (48% overall WR ditto); despite that, I have never been banned completely, and not even banished to Coop only (turned orange).

 

To even be banished to Coop takes a spectacular level of team damage, and to be doing so consistently.

 

There is no need to drop DDs; just apply a bit of caution and forethought before firing torps...

I was pink for 2 games after that game (as anyone would expect after TK) - played another 10 or so before heading to bed - boot up the game today and here we are gone for 3 days.

Again main issue for me and I guess others that are in a similar situation can´t risk playing DDs if anyone just has to run in a torp by mistake if this can straight up result in what happened to me today - a ban again.

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

What I don´t like is how support replies to tickets like this. Why can´t support tell me exactly in my ticket how much team damage I caused, the torpedo damage I dealt since I started playing this game or tell me the exact time when this friendly DD bit the dust - or as mentioned - told me the moment I got banned the first time how much damage I am allowed to deal without spending my next 3 days not in WOWS.

You mention the probation - this is what I mean - this should apply to everyone that deals with this issue. I will drop DD´s if WG can´t answer me the above cause I can´t risk getting banned cause of unanswered questions.

The moment I would read that the support tells me that minute YXZ he saw me do that and caused this I would know that they looked into it - my last 5 tickets had been 1:1 auto replies and something like this makes me feel like support doesn´t treat me as customer as much as I would expect to - so I indeed question that they even looked that the replay.

That you cannot game the system.

There are people who like to do team damage on purpose. If they knew the thresholds, they could do the right amount of team damage without getting punished.

 

And when you cannot play DD without risking doing team damage, then the class is not for you.

[Verblonde]

3 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

can´t risk playing DDs if anyone just has to run in a torp by mistake

If this happens often enough to be a problem, you're doing it wrong (sorry to be blunt).

 

We all get pink now and again; to get a ban requires much more consistent misbehaviour. I would recommend - to start with - simply not firing torps if it is physically possible for a friendly to connect with them (including any 'spares' after some of your spread hit their target); mini-map is your friend here, as well as practice (be mindful of torp speeds too - a Halland's fish will arrive in about half the time of torps from something like Black, and so on). When you've got an extended run with no pink under your belt, you can start adding in the dicier shots again (provided you accept the associated risks).

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

10 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

If this happens often enough to be a problem, you're doing it wrong (sorry to be blunt).

 

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

 

And when you cannot play DD without risking doing team damage, then the class is not for you.

 

Did you both even watched the replay? I clearly have vibes you did not do that - you can even look up my dd stats - not the best but 2k games in them and playing average should mean that I indeed know to not torp friendly players cause I see some big juicy target infront of me.  But yes as both of you said - if I indeed cant risk it I have to stop playing them.

Again the goalpost gets moved yet again - player gets banned - gets unbanned - friendly player runs into torpedo and gets killed - the player who torped should NOT straight up get banned for that again when all I got was 2 rounds pink for that in the first place. If anyone from the support team had checked my team damage numbers since the ban they would had seen 0 team damage the 30 games since unban - same applies to seeing that I did NOT just spam torps that moment but the other playing running into my torps - if I had not torped that moment the enemy ship would had killed the player a second later. 

[KaeptnHuck]

Vor 9 Minuten, Verblonde sagte:

If this happens often enough to be a problem, you're doing it wrong (sorry to be blunt).

 

We all get pink now and again; to get a ban requires much more consistent misbehaviour. I would recommend - to start with - simply not firing torps if it is physically possible for a friendly to connect with them (including any 'spares' after some of your spread hit their target); mini-map is your friend here, as well as practice (be mindful of torp speeds too - a Halland's fish will arrive in about half the time of torps from something like Black, and so on). When you've got an extended run with no pink under your belt, you can start adding in the dicier shots again (provided you accept the associated risks).

It's the risk you take in hitting someone in general he is talking about, same goes for Battleships and Carriers. His problem is the way the support interacts with him, and he sees no other way to solve the issue otherwise then to post in the forums!

 

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Did you both even watched the replay? I clearly have vibes you did not do that - you can even look up my dd stats - not the best but 2k games in them and playing average should mean that I indeed know to not torp friendly players cause I see some big juicy target infront of me. 

Again the goalpost gets moved yet again - player gets banned - gets unbanned - friendly player runs into torpedo and gets killed - the player who torped should NOT straight up get banned for that again when all I got was 2 rounds pink for that in the first place. If anyone from the support team had checked my team damage numbers since the report he would had seen 0 dealt damage - same applies to seeing that I did NOT just spam torps that moment but the other playing running into my torps - if I had not torped that moment the enemy ship would had killed the player a second later. 

Then you shoud have torped a little later. Your teammate was clearly between you and the target. He was evading enemy gunfire, which makes it unlikely that he could focus on torps launched at him from the front.

[KaeptnHuck]

@MrConway

[KaeptnHuck]

Sorry for the Doublepost, but can u look into this

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

31 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Then you shoud have torped a little later. Your teammate was clearly between you and the target. He was evading enemy gunfire, which makes it unlikely that he could focus on torps launched at him from the front.

Since everyone has his own opinion on who was more to blame I wanna go back to the main topic and that being that I think we agree on the part that if as I said its true (WG staff can look into this) that I not have dealt any team damage since my unban beside this shown match - its an overreaction from WGs part giving me 3 days of game ban for this while not providing me proper replies from the tickets I had created whatsoever. 

Beside that I didn´t get an support mail telling me that I got banned (got one the first ban) nor telling me after the first ban that there is some sort of probation and that I should not play play DDs or whatever to risk getting booted again for whatever happens in the futur. I at this point can get banned for pretty much anything team damage related - do I have to fear that someone disconnects right infront of me and drives into me or on purpose drives into launched torpedos cause someone dislikes me (seen this a bunch of times in my nearly 8k games played)? That´s why I expect support looking into things and to proof players that they indeed either not did anything wrong or indeed had been guilty. If like today I have to read 5-6 times the same reply from support how can I trust them as customer that someone watched the mentioned games?

 

[Pukovnik7]

24 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Did you both even watched the replay? I clearly have vibes you did not do that - you can even look up my dd stats - not the best but 2k games in them and playing average should mean that I indeed know to not torp friendly players cause I see some big juicy target infront of me.  But yes as both of you said - if I indeed cant risk it I have to stop playing them.

Again the goalpost gets moved yet again - player gets banned - gets unbanned - friendly player runs into torpedo and gets killed - the player who torped should NOT straight up get banned for that again when all I got was 2 rounds pink for that in the first place. If anyone from the support team had checked my team damage numbers since the ban they would had seen 0 team damage the 30 games since unban - same applies to seeing that I did NOT just spam torps that moment but the other playing running into my torps - if I had not torped that moment the enemy ship would had killed the player a second later. 

I don't know your exact situation, but early on I had similar problem: I would get too focused on a target, shoot torpedoes, and blow up a friendly. I got banned once or twice to coop only because of that.

Solution?

Look at the minimap, do not spend all the time focused on the target, and if there are many friendly ships nearby - get up into enemy's face. Most of my torpedo kills are done from literally less than my own ship's length. And yes, that includes battleships.

[ColonelPete]

14 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

 I at this point can get banned for pretty much anything team damage related - do I have to fear that someone disconnects right infront of me and drives into me or on purpose drives into launched torpedos cause someone dislikes me (seen this a bunch of times in my nearly 8k games played)?

When you cannot see the difference between ramming damage and sinking a teammate, then yes, you should not play DD anymore.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

When you cannot see the difference between ramming damage and sinking a teammate, then yes, you should not play DD anymore.

Its not easy to stay on topic when you try to move the original post again and again - I don´t see a reason to reply to you anymore since you clearly are not trying to discuss anything regarding the situation whatsoever anymore. You questioned me already playing this game and DDs - anyone can look up my stats or yours  - we are both average players and indeed know what we are talking about - that´s why I kindly ask you to stop assuming things. It should be more important to you that an official staff member enlightens us all in terms of my ban today so that others that are in similar situations now or in the futur know how handle the situation.

 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Its not easy to stay onn topic when you try to move the original post again and again - I don´t see a reason to reply to you anymore since you clearly are not trying to discuss anything regarding the situation whatsoever anymore. You questioned me already playing this game and DDs - anyone can look up my stats or yours  - we are both average players and indeed know what we are talking about - that´s why I kindly asked you to stop assuming things. It should be more important to you that an official staff member enlightens us all in terms of my ban today so that others that are in similar situations now or in the futur know how handle the situation.

I told you what is relevant, but you kept complaining and bring up new points. I am just answering to your complaints and your new issues.

And my goodwill towards people, who see it as a challenge to avoid teamdamage is limited.

And no, I am not an average player and neither are you. Therefore I do not understand your difficulty avoiding teamdamage.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I told you what is relevant, but you kept complaining and bring up new points. I am just answering to your complaints and your new issues.

And my goodwill towards people, who see it as a challenge to avoid teamdamage is limited.

And no, I am not an average player and neither are you. Therefore I do not understand your difficulty avoiding teamdamage.

Does anyone who since his first game ban dealt 0 team damage deserves a 3 day game ban again after an similar accident like mine? Yes or no? Should if someone appeals a ban have the chance that the person gets an reply from a support staff that looked into the case or should the person just get an copy paste answer? 

[Verblonde]

51 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Did you both even watched the replay?

Of course I didn't; WG's faults are many and various, but with the team damage system they've actually done a pretty good job. Unless you get a manual ban (from someone reporting you for something particularly egregious), the various teamkill penalties are entirely predictable, reasonable, and straightforward to avoid.

 

The reason I didn't watch the replay is that I simply didn't need to: there is no circumstance in the game where you can torp someone that isn't technically your fault (ditto shoot them as well, but it's most commonly torps that are the issue). Sure, it's annoying when someone does something idiotic that takes them into the path of your fish, but - and this is important - *it's still your fault*. When you fire your torps, you are responsible for assessing the risks of firing; if they strike your target, you get rewarded, and if they hit a friendly you get a (trivial, unless you do it a lot) penalty. Anyone who makes extensive use of torps has to make a risk-reward calculation every time they use their weapons, and sometimes you miscalculate.

 

But - and it bears repeating - you only get banned for repeated and egregious misbehaviour (if it were otherwise, I would have been banned years ago, most likely).

 

You have a couple of options here: carry on being a trifle histrionic, or learn how to use torps more effectively - the latter isn't that hard, it just requires slightly more forethought and slightly less reflexive firing when able regardless.

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Does anyone who since his first game ban dealt 0 team damage deserves a 3 day game ban again after an similar accident like mine? Yes or no? Should if someone appeals a ban have the chance that the person gets an reply from a support staff that looked into the case or should the person just get an copy paste answer? 

Depends on if their are still on probation. Repeated offenders are usually punished more harshly.

Yes, they should get a reply. But you cannot know if they looked into your case again or not. Feel free to contact Sehales, Crysantos or MrConway. I do not expect that this will change your punishment.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

 

But - and it bears repeating - you only get banned for repeated and egregious misbehaviour (if it were otherwise, I would have been banned years ago, most likely).

 

Well sorry to tell you but that´s not the case - 5 days ago deserved game ban - I play 29 games without a single team damage dealt and a single game where I clearly not planned to kill a friendly DD results in 3 days game ban - sorry if you don´t believe me feel free to ping a mod/admin who can indeed proof the opposite. There is a reason I mentioned the first ban that was deserved - cause otherwise I would not told the entire story and would look like an complete idiot like others did before that said "oh I never did anything wrong". 

[Verblonde]

1 minute ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

sorry if you don´t believe me

I do believe you.

 

Presumably, it's the probation thing that bit you. This is the down-side of the system: we know there is a probation period (assuming WG are being truthful), but we don't know how long it is, to avoid people being able to work round it deliberately.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Depends on if their are still on probation. Repeated offenders are usually punished more harshly.

Yes, they should get a reply. But you cannot know if they looked into your case again or not. Feel free to contact Sehales, Crysantos or MrConway. I do not expect that this will change your punishment.

Again I would had fully understood if I had been banned yet again after a ticket like with the first ban where I indeed on purpose dealt team damage and haven´t learned from it - this case tho where a single mistake means 3 days game ban cause the probation doesn´t takes in account any mistakes by yourself and others is just unfair if indeed the person wasn´t aware nor did any of his action on purpose. 

 

I DM´d Sehales as mentioned a few posts ago - and yes I also expect no change in punishment even that I know that I have not on purpose/willingly went against the Unsportsmanlike conduct in terms of dealing team damage - I just want to know that someone looks my case as every customers should expect an proper reply/answer to the case/question he has. A simple "we watched your replay saw that it wasn´t on purpose" is enough for me.

Nearly a day is over and WG still hasn´t mailed me like the first time why I was banned today. 

 

 

Anyway I hope that we get an WG response to this so that others can learn something new from this case.