Asashio. The end of teamplay in Random and Ranked

[ClappingLollies]

I simply want to ask WG what their thought process was when they could release a ship like the Asashio? I have met a bunch of them ingame now, and i have still not seen any that is doing what DD is supposed to do. Aka spot, cap, contest and so forth. 

 

Why release a ship that is so "anti teamplay"? Its worse having them on your team than to actually play against them. Don't get me wrong, the ship is probably very strong in the right hands, but it promotes HORRIBLE gameplay for the avg. player. You have 3 DD's on your team like i had today (before i decided to simply not play Wows until the weekend was over), 2 being Asashio's.

They do not contest caps, they do not spot and all they do is sail at max range launching torps that will have no or little impact on the game itself.

 

Does this type of gameplay remind you of anything? Yes, you guessed it! BB's! 

 

And what is even worse is that when those special BB players (which i'm guessing represent most of the BB players in the game these days) see that it's Asashio's on the enemy team they will play even more passive than they did before. 

 

So i'm asking, what is the point of releasing braindead idiotic ships like this WG? Could you not make it fun and good for teamplay. It is a DD after all and DD's are meant to be teamplayers.

WG's words. Not mine BTW. 

 

Do you not listen to the CC's and supertesters advising you to not release the ship in it's current form? Many CC's predicted that this was going to happen. And it did.

Ships like this should not be released at all IMO and before the snarky "git gud" or "learn to play" comments start raining in, the issue is not that does a lot of DMG to BB's.

It negatively affects the little teamplay we had left in this game, which looks like its fading more and more with every patch and ship release. 

 

 

 

Keep in mind that this is just what i have personally experienced so far, and it might be different for you. And please do tell if you have experienced the same or something different. 

 

Rant over. 

 

Edited the title as RB confused some ppl.

[lafeel]

Pretty sure that, from what I have seen of it, teamplay in ranked is a contradiction in terms.

[havaduck]

17 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

I simply want to ask WG what their thought process was when they could release a ship like the Assholio?

Rant over. 

 

Pet names are a good thing, right?

 

 

18 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Does this type of gameplay remind you of anything? Yes, you guessed it! BB's! 

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

They do not contest caps, they do not spot and all they do is sail at max range launching torps that will have no or little impact on the game itself.

 

(Majority of the playerbase-)Assholio players be like:

 

 

22 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

So i'm asking, what is the point of releasing braindead idiotic ships like this WG? Could you not make it fun and good for teamplay. It is a DD after all and DD's are meant to be teamplayers.

WG's words. Not mine BTW.

 

 

 

I tried my hardest to answer all the raised points and also shine light on the very hard design guidelines of WGs process of premium ship creation and the attached balancing process.

[Enduro_Biker]

This ship have been hand crafted for players like me. Players that are tired of covard BB players. Sure this ship will lead to more BB camping but that is not the point from WG. BB camping have been a thing for a long time. Players like me finally have a great tool to hunt BB players and enjoy their tears. I will buy a Asashio and keep it forever. And use it forever.

[ClappingLollies]

6 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

This ship have been hand crafted for players like me. Players that are tired of covard BB players. Sure this ship will lead to more BB camping but that is not the point from WG. BB camping have been a thing for a long time. Players like me finally have a great tool to hunt BB players and enjoy their tears. I will buy a Asashio and keep it forever. And use it forever.

As much as i also like to make BBabies cry and are tired of the same things you are, i don't think this ship is good for teamplay. And if you don't care about that you need to look at things in the long term not in the short term. This ship will make you laugh and have fun now, but we all know what happens after a while (old shima cough) 

[wilkatis_LV]

50 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

The end of teamplay in RB?

For something to end it has to start at 1st. There is no teamwork in ranked, there never was any. So no, it's not the end as an end without a start doesn't exist

 

50 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

i have still not seen any that is doing what DD is supposed to do.

Why would you?

If you meet enemy DD (for example while contesting a cap) - you are dead, the only matchup where you are on equal ground instead of massive disadvantage is another Asashio

You don't want to stray too close to cruisers bcuz of radars and hydros - there is nothing for you to with cruisers

Meanwhile for "anti-BB" you have 20km torps - just stay safe, spam them and hope you keep  your star

 

50 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

And what is even worse is that when those special BB players (which i'm guessing represent most of the BB players in the game these days)

Just say 90% and I'll comment that you are still underestimating how many of those there are

 

13 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

Players that are tired of covard BB players.

Lets see...

There is a BB 10km from you pushing more or less together with his teammates and a BB 19.5km from you sitting still and being the typically useless piece of garbage that most BBs are.

Which of those 2 would you torp in your Asashio with your 20km torps?

The closer one? What a "surprise"

 

So please, don't go around bs-ing stuff like that when it's obviously not the case

 

Asashio doesn't deal with the borderhumpers, it just creates more of them

 

13 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

I will buy a Asashio and keep it forever. And use it forever.

Just afterwards don't create another "weeh weeh Asashio was a broken promise, I bought it but it's so weak, weeh weeh" thread, we already have multiple of those

[Enduro_Biker]

12 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

For something to end it has to start at 1st. There is no teamwork in ranked, there never was any. So no, it's not the end as an end without a start doesn't exist

 

Why would you?

If you meet enemy DD (for example while contesting a cap) - you are dead, the only matchup where you are on equal ground instead of massive disadvantage is another Asashio

You don't want to stray too close to cruisers bcuz of radars and hydros - there is nothing for you to with cruisers

Meanwhile for "anti-BB" you have 20km torps - just stay safe, spam them and hope you keep  your star

 

Just say 90% and I'll comment that you are still underestimating how many of those there are

 

Lets see...

There is a BB 10km from you pushing more or less together with his teammates and a BB 19.5km from you sitting still and being the typically useless piece of garbage that most BBs are.

Which of those 2 would you torp in your Asashio with your 20km torps?

The closer one? What a "surprise"

 

So please, don't go around bs-ing stuff like that when it's obviously not the case

 

Asashio doesn't deal with the borderhumpers, it just creates more of them

 

Just afterwards don't create another "weeh weeh Asashio was a broken promise, I bought it but it's so weak, weeh weeh" thread, we already have multiple of those

Asashio with 16km torps at 71 knots will be pure horror for BBs. Thats great. It will force BBs to team up with DDs for spotting and cruisers for protection. Asashio is great news for this game. It will force teamplay. The salty tears from BBs is a bonus, it is well deserved since a long time.

[M0bius_One]

Don't worry, it's [edited]crap. Nobody will play it in like a week. 

10 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Just afterwards don't create another "weeh weeh Asashio was a broken promise, I bought it but it's so weak, weeh weeh" thread, we already have multiple of those

 

Because it is. It's as much of a floating turd as Graff Zeppelin was, and they pulled that from the store. There's literally nothing redeemable about this [edited]piece of trash. I don't even want it in my port because seeing it makes my blood boil.

[Spellfire40]

Is he just takling about ranked? Given the topic name? or just a general rant? In random Assashio is just another Kagaro stealthwise it can certainly cap thogh it more than any other t8 DD depends on teamsuport to win fights agist caping ships.

 

If its about it specalized  Arment? Nobody complainsabout Kiew plus RU DDs shiting about caping and that they should forefully equip smoke so they can cap despite sucking at that by design. Asassio is anti BB and can if someoen does go BB hunting he is doing the job its desighned for. Its just that she as one of teh most stealthyest DD in the game can also cap contest.

 

If its about playing her in Ranked really......well its a crap ship for that so are some other T8 choices for the gamemode........

[ClappingLollies]

2 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

Ashashio with 16km torps at 71 knots will be pure horror for BBs. Thats great. It will force BBs to team up with DDs for spotting and cruisers for protection. Ashashio is great news for this game. It will force teamplay. The salty tears from BBs is a bonus, it is well deserved since a long time.

The little teamplay we have now is that some few DD players like myself actually spot and actively contest caps. However those Asashio players don't and you think BB's will team up with DD's and cruisers now? Man you are wrong on so many levels. 

[Spellfire40]

3 minutes ago, The_Dunk_Squad said:

Don't worry, it's [edited]crap. Nobody will play it in like a week. 

 

Because it is. It's as much of a floating turd as Graff Zeppelin was, and they pulled that from the store. There's literally nothing redeemable about this [edited]piece of trash. I don't even want it in my port because seeing it makes my blood boil.

It does exactly whats it suposed to do and do that job well. It loses in other roles it not specalized at  i wouldnt call that crap.....TLR+Smoke+god tir conceilment is no crap its just more dependent than other IJN (who are all allready highly depending on teamsupot to get things done because Torpedoarment as a main weapon does not depend on your skill it depend on the enemy having none...)

[ClappingLollies]

5 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Is he just takling about ranked? Given the topic name? or just a general rant? In random Assashio is just another Kagaro stealthwise it can certainly cap thogh it more than any other t8 DD depends on teamsuport to win fights agist caping ships.

 

If its about it specalized  Arment? Nobody complainsabout Kiew plus RU DDs shiting about caping and that they should forefully equip smoke so they can cap despite sucking at that by design. Asassio is anti BB and can if someoen does go BB hunting he is doing the job its desighned for. Its just that she as one of teh most stealthyest DD in the game can also cap contest.

 

If its about playing her in Ranked really......well its a crap ship for that so are some other T8 choices for the gamemode........

Both ranked battles and random battles. 

 

And DD's job is not to "hunt" BB's like you say. DD's job is to actively contest, spot and deny areas with torps. That is their general job. The problem with Asashio is that it promotes the worst kind of gameplay. 

 

The Kiev can bully other DD's out of caps and has ok torps, so that is not a good argument. 

[Enduro_Biker]

16 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Both ranked battles and random battles. 

 

And DD's job is not to "hunt" BB's like you say. DD's job is to actively contest, spot and deny areas with torps. That is their general job. The problem with Asashio is that it promotes the worst kind of gameplay. 

 

The Kiev can bully other DD's out of caps and has ok torps, so that is not a good argument. 

The general opinion that DDs should actively contest caps have given the result that DD players suicide caps and spoiled BB players camp.

 

I like how Asashio stirs the pot. 

DDs primary job is to spot, it is the teams job to cap. Asashio is a great spotter. And it can nuke BBs and CVs, in other words break the back of the enemy team. There is nothing wrong with the Asashio.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

I simply want to ask WG what their thought process was when they could release a ship like the Asashio? I have met a bunch of them ingame now, and i have still not seen any that is doing what DD is supposed to do. Aka spot, cap, contest and so forth. 

 

Why release a ship that is so "anti teamplay"? Its worse having them on your team than to actually play against them. Don't get me wrong, the ship is probably very strong in the right hands, but it promotes HORRIBLE gameplay for the avg. player. You have 3 DD's on your team like i had today (before i decided to simply not play Wows until the weekend was over), 2 being Asashio's.

They do not contest caps, they do not spot and all they do is sail at max range launching torps that will have no or little impact on the game itself.

 

Does this type of gameplay remind you of anything? Yes, you guessed it! BB's! 

 

And what is even worse is that when those special BB players (which i'm guessing represent most of the BB players in the game these days) see that it's Asashio's on the enemy team they will play even more passive than they did before. 

 

So i'm asking, what is the point of releasing braindead idiotic ships like this WG? Could you not make it fun and good for teamplay. It is a DD after all and DD's are meant to be teamplayers.

WG's words. Not mine BTW. 

 

Do you not listen to the CC's and supertesters advising you to not release the ship in it's current form? Many CC's predicted that this was going to happen. And it did.

Ships like this should not be released at all IMO and before the snarky "git gud" or "learn to play" comments start raining in, the issue is not that does a lot of DMG to BB's.

It negatively affects the little teamplay we had left in this game, which looks like its fading more and more with every patch and ship release. 

 

 

 

Keep in mind that this is just what i have personally experienced so far, and it might be different for you. And please do tell if you have experienced the same or something different. 

 

Rant over. 

I cant really say much about ranked because i really hate that playmode even tho i usually play a bit in every season, mosty to get flags and stuf. I guess that players that take Asashio inte ranked probably play badly in them because i have a hard time seeing Asashio being strong in ranked (isnt it still 1 BB per team ?!), but if players complain about this ship in random i think its more the players then the ships fault, because this ship has every tool it need to be productive for the team in my mind. Sure, i may not push straight into the enemy fleet because i dont wanna knifefight another DD, but usually i push hard and wide, trying to bypass the enemy frontlines to torp the BBs in the back. Usually u can get a cap or two by doing this and when the BBs starts to run after eating 16 torps from the first salvo it should be easy for the rest of the fleet to push up and kill the DDs and CAs.

 

Ive played a lot in this ships since i bought it yesterday, but i would never consider taking it into ranked.

[ClappingLollies]

2 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

The general opinion that DDs should actively contest caps have given the result that DD players suicide caps and spoiled BB players camp.

 

I like how Asashio stirs the pot. 

DDs primary job is to spot, it is the teams job to cap. Asashio is a great spotter. And it can nuke BBs and CVs, in other words break the back of the enemy team. There is nothing wrong with the Asashio.

That is the problem with that Asashio though. It's not that it can't do all those things, its the fact that the players that play the ship only care about DMG farming. And when 2 out of your teams 3 DD's is off on their own adventures not doing anything good for the team, the enemy team can easily gain map control. 

 

Anyone that likes how the Asashio plays is lacking when it comes to knowledge of DD play IMO. 

And the only thing that this ship is going to accomplish is to get these players that think the Asashio is the key to the BB problems being massively disappointed and end up complaining here. 

 

BTW if you cant contest caps without suiciding, please play something else. 

[cuddlesRO]

Ranked is nothing but luck to get a non retarded team. PERIOD! IT has nothing to do with ships , skill or anything else in that matter.

[ClappingLollies]

Just now, clocky said:

Ranked is nothing but luck to get a non retarded team. PERIOD! IT has nothing to do with ships , skill or anything else in that matter.

I edited the title for you. Its not just ranked i meant with RB. RB=Random battle

[loppantorkel]

They will do little to affect the game. Bad players will be bad in them instead of Kageros, good players will use them to their benefit. Hsienyang is halfway there already and it works decently.

[wilkatis_LV]

48 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

Asashio with 16km torps at 71 knots will be pure horror for BBs.

No it's not any horror. At least not to a BB who uses a Keyboard. And that's that same BB you'll see actually pushing instead of sitting so far back so far that he's still out of your range

 

49 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

It will force BBs to team up with DDs for spotting and cruisers for protection.

No it won't. What it will do, however, is push more BBs into "might aswell snipe, what's the point anyway" borderhumping

 

50 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

It will force teamplay.

 

51 minutes ago, The_Dunk_Squad said:

Because it is. It's as much of a floating turd as Graff Zeppelin was, and they pulled that from the store. There's literally nothing redeemable about this [edited]piece of trash. I don't even want it in my port because seeing it makes my blood boil.

I know it is. I knew it since it was first shown. Has it changed? No, not really, it's that same useless boat as it was back then

 

26 minutes ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

DDs primary job is to spot it is the teams job to cap.

Yes, of course, I'll park my 13km spotting range BB in the cap to get it while your useless a** with your 5.4km concealment is sitting 10km behind me spamming torps at targets you'll never hit. Sounds about right

 

Up until this point I avoided looking at your stats, but hell, after this gem I just had to. And, a surprise to absolutely noone... A clueless potato. You truly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Surprise said:

This ship have been hand crafted for players like me. Players that are tired of covard BB players. Sure this ship will lead to more BB camping but that is not the point from WG. BB camping have been a thing for a long time. Players like me finally have a great tool to hunt BB players and enjoy their tears. I will buy a Asashio and keep it forever. And use it forever.

 

The general opinion that DDs should actively contest caps have given the result that DD players suicide caps...

Confusion on my part, but when has the opposing teams camping BBs ever been an issue?

 

Only players, with underdeveloped skills, suicide while contesting caps.

[Aotearas]

Personally I've only gotten hit by an Asashio when sailing a BB once ... @CLyDeThaMonKeY was the culprit. The DWT aren't that much more of a threat to BBs than other torps, the fact you spot them late makes little difference since normal torps you didn't anticipate are only marginally less surprising. At least that's my current perspective as a player who engages his WASD.exe every now and then.

On the other hand of the spectrum, today I did see how an Asashio tried to torpedo a rushing Baltimore ... with obvious (lack of) results.

 

And with that I'm arriving at the other part of my opinion:

Speaking for the lower-skilled part of the playerbase, the Asashio is nothing short of desastrous. Potato DD players are going to get steamrolled by any halfway competent DD player, cruiser players with the presence of mind to know that Asashio can't torp them have more freedom of movement they can use to leverage their strengths with little fear of surprise torpedoes and even despite the nasty nature of high speed, high damage, short spotting distance DWT, competent BB players are still not going to get nuked unless they simply didn't reckon with the Asashio (in that regard I consider the TRB consumable the greater evil, being able to spew out 16 torpedoes to saturate an area is arguable more of a problem than their stealthy qualities, the old Shiratsuyu had proven that rather comprehensively). But the poor BB players will see just another reason to stay as far away from the battle as possible.

 

In short:

Bad DD players will be at an even greater disadvantage against other DDs and cruisers.

Bad BB players just got another readily available excuse ("But there's an Asashio") to hide.

 

Only the former is actually a problem directly related to the ship itself though, which is ironic considering the outspoken purpose was to allow people to punish camping BBs (at which point it doubly failed, since it's by virtue of proximity much easier to drop on BBs that aren't camping, meaning more aggressive BB players are exposed disproportionally more often to the Asashio), which only ADDS to the problem the Asashio was allegedly supposed to counter.

 

 

 

 

tl;dr version:

Potatoes gonna potate, WG can't into balance, Asashio is bad for the meta.

[wilkatis_LV]

13 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

They will do little to affect the game. Bad players will be bad in them instead of Kageros, good players will use them to their benefit. Hsienyang is halfway there already and it works decently.

Hsienyang has guns it can use. Asashio has the exact same guns that Kagero has.

Hsienyang can meet an enemy DD and force it away / kill it / defend itself. Asashio... can try  to use the stealth and run I guess

Hsienyang can torp a CA. Hsienyang can smoke up and shoot the CA. Meanwhile Asashio... I'll just quote Jingles - "bend over, grab your ankles and kiss your a** goodbye"

That's all the difference you need

 

To put another perspective on their comparison:

Hsienyang has 41% more DPM (or Asashio has 29% less DPM - whichever way you want to look at it)

Knock out one turret on both and now that's 58% more (or 37% less respectively)

 

Then, ignoring things like firing angles, turrets knocked out, saturation, assuming 50% hitrate and no captain skills taken / modules installed, no involvement from other ships

Asashio would need 61s to kill a Hsienyang. In return Hsienyang gets rid of the Asashio in 42s

 

That right there is the big difference that makes or breaks the ship

[TheFierceRabbit]

[loppantorkel]

1 minute ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Hsienyang has guns it can use. Asashio has the exact same guns that Kagero has.

Hsienyang can meet an enemy DD and force it away / kill it / defend itself. Asashio... can try  to use the stealth and run I guess

Hsienyang can torp a CA. Hsienyang can smoke up and shoot the CA. Meanwhile Asashio... I'll just quote Jingles - "bend over, grab your ankles and kiss your a** goodbye"

That's all the difference you need

 

To put another perspective on their comparison:

Hsienyang has 41% more DPM (or Asashio has 29% less DPM - whichever way you want to look at it)

Knock out one turret on both and now that's 58% more (or 37% less respectively)

 

Then, ignoring things like firing angles, turrets knocked out, saturation, assuming 50% hitrate and no captain skills taken / modules installed, no involvement from other ships

Asashio would need 61s to kill a Hsienyang. In return Hsienyang gets rid of the Asashio in 42s

 

That right there is the big difference that makes or breaks the ship

If Asashio is regarded UP in 6 months or so, it will be buffed, maybe its guns. So that's not an issue. The issue OP and others are arguing is the destruction of teamplay and meta, which is absurd and will be apparent in a few months. Game will go on. Asashio won't play a big role in the games. Some might dominate in a select number of games, but in most games it will be no more than a nuisance. Meta won't change.

[Enduro_Biker]

39 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

 

Up until this point I avoided looking at your stats, but hell, after this gem I just had to. And, a surprise to absolutely noone... A clueless potato. 

I want to give you a hug. I love friendly people on the internet. You seem like a great guy to hang out with, want to be my friend?