Buyer's Remorse - Asashio edition **BUY HAREKAZE INSTEAD**

[HaachamaShipping]

2 hours ago, Malfuss said:

I've played another couple of games in her yesterday and my opinion is changing slightly for the better, I still feel useless when trying to contest caps, but having a bit more fun in her. Although I did get one battle where reds only had 2 BB's, still managed to sink the straight lining one though.

Sadly, unless your team is also crap, it sure isn't the glue eaters that travel in a straight line and camp in obvious spots that win matches.

[EdiJo]

On 29.04.2018 at 2:13 PM, The_Dunk_Squad said:

 but hey. Despite a 19-7 record on Asashio, I'll give my raw opinion: This ship is [edited]garbage. Most of my wins come from the fact that the enemy team in most of them was equally as incompetent as this ship is, blundering wildly into my torpedo spreads.

Yes. I met Asashio in my games quite many times and usually her results were not impressive. But oh my, how it is pissing me off in a BB when we have brainless DD (or which just don't give a f*k about screening), and the abomination starts to spray torps "in general direction". How annoying it is when you are not spotted, maneuvering, and suddenly hear max 2-3 beep-beeps and get N times -15k health + obligatory flooding. For what? Only because the camping chimp somewhere in his spawn clicked 2 minutes earlier his another random spread.  All skill. 

Yes, he will not win that way. But the thing making me angry is that there is NOTHING a BB can do about it, apart from begging his DD/CV to spot & hunt that thing down.

 

Equally well WG could implement random HP drops like those meteor showers in the space game. Why bother with shooting & rendering torps.  Just random  ballistic missile like V-2 which arrives before the warning 

 

 

[CT_Tarantula_NL]

LMFAO are u all kidding i LOVE this DD , besides havin both , i do quite well in my asashio , last battle eventho a defeat with whinning players , i did 115K dam with mostly my torps.. killing last BB in our cap XD .. Yes this is a very specifick DD, but i still have much fun with it , bought the best admiral pack , tbh i regrettin more that i bought the Spee and KII then my new DDs ! 

 

Cheers 

[Zen71_sniper]

11 hours ago, CT_Tarantula_NL said:

LMFAO are u all kidding i LOVE this DD , besides havin both , i do quite well in my asashio , last battle eventho a defeat with whinning players , i did 115K dam with mostly my torps.. killing last BB in our cap XD .. Yes this is a very specifick DD, but i still have much fun with it , bought the best admiral pack , tbh i regrettin more that i bought the Spee and KII then my new DDs ! 

 

Cheers 

Take it as you want, but hopefully at least consider, you are the reason why this ship shouldn't be released.

 

Considering your experience and stats, you should really progress without buying high tier premium, specially such a one-trick pony premium. You should progress slower and L2P better.

 

Take this from someone who wished that he got this kind of advice when he was at your number of games.

 

GL and HF, but please consider above. 

[CT_Tarantula_NL]

Well i DO appreciate the heads up, yh im a tat gung ho, but tbh from my POV they should kickout the whole percentage sys... as its based on victories instead of  damage dealt etc ! Still learning i guess , might find a golden middle where i can still play my way while gettin the best for the team aswell... BUT , all i now see is BB hiding in fear behind a rock , cruisers either line up with the BB or suicide in a cap , CV that seem to have lost their ways in helpin others, got the  T6 Jap and US CV , i mostly go for enemy CV, as soon as they sink a LOT less to worrie ... But nooo i gotta kill the BBs as some ppl told me...  We'll see in the future how well things go ;)

 

Cheers

[Akula971]

OP has a 70% WR in it, and yet has only  a 39% WR in the Loyang? I respect his opinion (NOT).   It is a good DD in the right hands. I have only a 60% WR in it. It can indirectly contest caps, with support it can out spot the enemy at 5.4Km range, forcing them to seek cover or move out of range. With a 19 point captain, equipped with CE and RPF, I can find and keep spotted enemy DDs. If they are low health, I'll enter into a gun fight no problem. Games typically have 4-5 BBs in them, so there is always something to shoot at.

 

All in All, its fun to play. I paid my money and enjoy the experience. It may be useless in ranked, but so are so many other ships too. Hardly a valid argument. Discouraging team play? GTFO. On a server with multiple nationalities, ages, abilities, never going to work anyway. Not to long ago the folks on the forum where whinging about the BB heavy meta, BBs sitting way back, sniping, no pushing. Well here you are, an antidote to that. Now the BBs will need a cruiser, or DD to screen for them. But DDs and cruisers go off on their own? Well the BB will HAVE to follow, to support and be screened, or die alone. (we all die alone anyway).

 

Should rename these boards from Forums to Whinging pages.

[piritskenyer]

The other day I was in one of my CL's in a match where 7/10 DD's in the game were Asashios... They had 4 to our 3, and since I knew exactly where their Loyang was, I finally felt free. I could go and do what I haven't been able to for some time: roam the map at midrange to the enemy line and not fear suddenly being deleted by a random wall of torps. That didn't stop some poor soul trying to torp me with anti capital ship torpedoes,  but it didn't do him much.

 

I can tell you, it feels liberating.

 

PS: All BB-only players, I hope we see many more Asashio games

[Ulvesnutepostei]

Torpedo Acceleration gives you 16km with 72 knots and detection 900 meters, with close to 21K potential damage x8 that is a powerful tactical weapon in random rounds

 

 

[VeteranGamer84]

Buyer's Remorse - Asashio edition **BUY HAREKAZE Play Pan Asian DDs INSTEAD**

[Tirande]

Asashio does fine if you're not a full on plebtato. Asashio if played decently is still fine, she won't get the insane damage numbers unless there are BBs in the game but she can still contest caps and win gunfights. Notable gunfights I've managed to win with her include: Asashio VS Atago, Asashio VS Shima, Asashio VS Udaloi. Now the Atago was a complete idiot and decided to go broadside at 3km so he ate citadels for days so I guess it doesn't count? ;P Besides.. how can you say no to this face:

 

 

She's a great DD if played in division, a fair DD solo and a subpar DD if MM screws you over. Is she for everyone? No, not at all. Is she for people who've played Shimakaze and Pan Asian DDs and who aren't afraid to get stuck in, thinking before they break stealth to attack? Yes, Asashio requires planning to play well. She's no Kamikaze but she's quite good at her role which is BB hunter. I don't regret buying her, but don't say "buy Harekaze instead" because they're different ships for different primary roles. Harekaze is a hybrid gunboat, Asashio is a designated BB hunting torpedo boat. Can she fight other DDs? Yes, but don't expect to outgun them and be prepared to drop smoke and disengage.

 

Also, here's a tip; Torpedo Acceleration makes the torps harder to dodge AND the 4km range cut is irrelevant. I run my Shima captain with it anyway so I get a juicy 18k hp Asashio with the 72 knot 16 km torpedoes. Coupled with a 101s reload time and 21k damage alpha per torp and the highest flooding chance in the game... the only way I can have more fun with Asashio is by making her torps hit cruisers for maximum troll! That said, she drops off when all the BBs are dead or on the other side of the map quaking in fear.

 

What is best in Asashio's life? To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of battlebabies!

 

So yeah in short, if you don't wanna be the bane of BBs, don't buy Asashio. If you do, enjoy your specialist hunting destroyer. Either way, time to hunt some more BBs. Tenno heika BANZAI! >=3

[KarmaQU_EU]

The problem is, a hard loss in a bad matchup with Asashio is no worse than a hard loss in any other ship in an unlucky game or bad matchup.

However, a hard win with Asashio puts many "good matches" in other ships to shame.

[HaachamaShipping]

5 hours ago, Tirande said:

Besides.. how can you say no to this face:

I'd likely be only half as pissed if I would not associate this boat with this face. I mean, then it'd be like the Graf Zeppelin, where I find the execution dumb, but eh, game is still playable enough and I'm neither interested in the Zeppelin nor in carriers. But I do have an interest in Asashio-class and in IJN DDs, which makes me frown at this thing that represents the class and also is the T8 premium for IJN DD line, if you have no Harekaze. And Harekaze is a collab boat, this is a historical ship that likely will be the go-to T8 premium of IJN DDs, just like the Atago for cruisers, the Kii for BBs, the Tirpitz for German BBs, etc.

 

Also, yes, a Harekaze and an Asashio are two different kind of ships. One is heavily specialised, the other is not. Both need a fair bit of thinking before they go into a gunfight (Harekaze has only so many hp it can trade), but the Asashio has a lower skill floor and a lower skill ceiling. It's way easier to do anything meaningful in an Asashio to get numbers (not counting for the enemy maybe adjusting to your presence alone), get 1-2 kills and a good bit of damage. you can likely play like an utter moron and die within 5 minutes, but still get a better result than in any other DD. But if the situation turns sour, Asashio also has far fewer tools to deal with it. Whether bad MM or just the last surviving ships being pretty hard counters, the ship has minimal means to do anything anymore. It's better than nothing, but worse than basically anything else. The Asashio, is a ship that caters to the lowest common denominator of torpedo damage farming, because it has basically the best torpedoes for the easiest targets in the entire game. The greatest skill these torpedoes require is to make sure noone runs over them and detects them. Which is typically easier than trying to figure out how to torpedo a cruiser, because trying to gun them down is hardly going to be successful. and it certainly is easier than having to know how to get similar numbers out of a Harekaze and not just get spotted and die or play the ship as a stock Kagero.

 

And one might argue "No, the skill ceiling isn't low, because you need a lot of skill to utilise the guns and concealment to their greatest value", which might be true, you need to have some brain to use those. Just, the returns for being more skilled quickly start to diminish to the point where they become so minimal to no longer be significant. I mean, all the things not related to torpedoes that you need to know to excel in Asashio you need to know in a Kagero (and are also needed for the following IJN DDs), but Kagero still has more options at its disposal to deal with a variety of threats.

[Tirande]

18 hours ago, Riselotte said:

I'd likely be only half as pissed if I would not associate this boat with this face. I mean, then it'd be like the Graf Zeppelin, where I find the execution dumb, but eh, game is still playable enough and I'm neither interested in the Zeppelin nor in carriers. But I do have an interest in Asashio-class and in IJN DDs, which makes me frown at this thing that represents the class and also is the T8 premium for IJN DD line, if you have no Harekaze. And Harekaze is a collab boat, this is a historical ship that likely will be the go-to T8 premium of IJN DDs, just like the Atago for cruisers, the Kii for BBs, the Tirpitz for German BBs, etc.

 

I figured from the Arashio avatar that you liked the class to some extent at least.... :P I mean I adore my Asashio, she got her ring (yes that's my Asashio in the image v.v) when I bought her for WoWS; same story with Kaga. And so far Asashio hasn't let me down, the ship isn't as good as I'd have hoped but tbh, with the anti-IJN bias WG maintains to please Putin-sama.... I didn't really think they'd make her OP on a Belfast, Kutuzov or Imperator level. To do that she'd have had to have gotten torps that hit cruisers, better gun traverse and maybe the option to slot in F3 cruise miss.... torpedoes. As for availability... after the shitshow by the battlebabies and the CCs about how this ship was toxic for the game; she may not come back on sale. I could be wrong there but she's a ship to keep an eye on; though Harekaze deffo won't come back after the collab ends and Harekaze is also a great ship to own.

 

Long story short, Harekaze is better for the overall gameplay aspect and Asashio is fun if you like a challenge and want to make some BBs cry. I'd not recommend either for a novice captain but if I had to, Harekaze is more forgiving than Asashio is because Harekaze can at least repel pesky CAs with her torps long enough to run away.

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, Tirande said:

I figured from the Arashio avatar that you liked the class to some extent at least.... :P I mean I adore my Asashio, she got her ring (yes that's my Asashio in the image v.v) when I bought her for WoWS; same story with Kaga. And so far Asashio hasn't let me down, the ship isn't as good as I'd have hoped but tbh, with the anti-IJN bias WG maintains to please Putin-sama.... I didn't really think they'd make her OP on a Belfast, Kutuzov or Imperator level. To do that she'd have had to have gotten torps that hit cruisers, better gun traverse and maybe the option to slot in F3 cruise miss.... torpedoes. As for availability... after the shitshow by the battlebabies and the CCs about how this ship was toxic for the game; she may not come back on sale. I could be wrong there but she's a ship to keep an eye on; though Harekaze deffo won't come back after the collab ends and Harekaze is also a great ship to own.

 

Long story short, Harekaze is better for the overall gameplay aspect and Asashio is fun if you like a challenge and want to make some BBs cry. I'd not recommend either for a novice captain but if I had to, Harekaze is more forgiving than Asashio is because Harekaze can at least repel pesky CAs with her torps long enough to run away.

Would ring Arashio if lvl 99. Still does not make me cash out for anything that has the class name on it. If Asashio was limited for certain historical reasons, sure, but nothing says historically it was a gimmick boat.

[Tirande]

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Would ring Arashio if lvl 99. Still does not make me cash out for anything that has the class name on it. If Asashio was limited for certain historical reasons, sure, but nothing says historically it was a gimmick boat.

If anything, the fact that she has DWT is kinda retarded cuz she sank HNLMS Piet Hein with a torpedo during the Battle of Badung Strait. And in a way, it may be better that I didn't design or balance this ship cuz I'd be somewhat biased towards her due to her service record on KC to me. Then again, she'd not have much use for her depth charges in WoWS so I dunno how that'd work out. Still, a gimmick boat is better than a downgraded stock hull Kagero; I would've been forced to skip her if she'd have been that. While I wish they'd have just made her a 'better' Kagero with less base hp, slightly worse guns but better torps and worse AA. Her AA was pretty lackluster to be fair, that's how she sank in the end, bombed and strafed to crud while trying to rescue Arashio's and Nojima Maru survivors.

 

In a way, the ship they implemented bearing her name is unworthy of her name but at least she stands out and isn't a dressed down Kagero A hull with no distinct identity of her own. The outrage surrounding her controversial armament and gimmicky nature at least made her name known to more people, something that'd not have happened if she had been her original planned form. She'd have been lost and forgotten in the waves of premium disappointments, at least now she stands out and has made a splash. For better or for worse at least the ship's name is associated with something, primarily all the BBs on the enemy team running to the map borders whenever they see her on the opposing team.

[HaachamaShipping]

49 minutes ago, Tirande said:

If anything, the fact that she has DWT is kinda retarded cuz she sank HNLMS Piet Hein with a torpedo during the Battle of Badung Strait. And in a way, it may be better that I didn't design or balance this ship cuz I'd be somewhat biased towards her due to her service record on KC to me. Then again, she'd not have much use for her depth charges in WoWS so I dunno how that'd work out. Still, a gimmick boat is better than a downgraded stock hull Kagero; I would've been forced to skip her if she'd have been that. While I wish they'd have just made her a 'better' Kagero with less base hp, slightly worse guns but better torps and worse AA. Her AA was pretty lackluster to be fair, that's how she sank in the end, bombed and strafed to crud while trying to rescue Arashio's and Nojima Maru survivors.

 

In a way, the ship they implemented bearing her name is unworthy of her name but at least she stands out and isn't a dressed down Kagero A hull with no distinct identity of her own. The outrage surrounding her controversial armament and gimmicky nature at least made her name known to more people, something that'd not have happened if she had been her original planned form. She'd have been lost and forgotten in the waves of premium disappointments, at least now she stands out and has made a splash. For better or for worse at least the ship's name is associated with something, primarily all the BBs on the enemy team running to the map borders whenever they see her on the opposing team.

Stock Kagero hull with T7 torps, T7 guns, T7 modules. Sits neatly inbetween Shira and Akatsuki with 6.0 km concealment, a bit more guanboaty than Shira but more easily seen, less visible than akatsuki, but with worse torpedoes. A decent compromise, it would fit in as proto-Kagero and noone needs to be harmed.

[Tirande]

2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Stock Kagero hull with T7 torps, T7 guns, T7 modules. Sits neatly inbetween Shira and Akatsuki with 6.0 km concealment, a bit more guanboaty than Shira but more easily seen, less visible than akatsuki, but with worse torpedoes. A decent compromise, it would fit in as proto-Kagero and noone needs to be harmed.

And that'd likely not sell since that's just a worse stock Kagero in T8. They'd have to drop her to T7, keep the reload booster, keep the Kagero guns and then you'd have a slightly better Akatsuki which would be "OP powercreep zomfg rage". If they'd plop that into T8 you'd get a stock Kagero with Reload Booster and no need to be in the game, still I think the DWTs should've at least also hit CAs and maybe not CLs? Though that might cause issues with coding for Mogami since her designation changes when you equip the 155mm/203mm guns.

[HaachamaShipping]

29 minutes ago, Tirande said:

And that'd likely not sell since that's just a worse stock Kagero in T8. They'd have to drop her to T7, keep the reload booster, keep the Kagero guns and then you'd have a slightly better Akatsuki which would be "OP powercreep zomfg rage". If they'd plop that into T8 you'd get a stock Kagero with Reload Booster and no need to be in the game, still I think the DWTs should've at least also hit CAs and maybe not CLs? Though that might cause issues with coding for Mogami since her designation changes when you equip the 155mm/203mm guns.

It's implied, sorry. T7, but TRB or smoke. Would be an ok inbetween. 

[Tirande]

2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

It's implied, sorry. T7, but TRB or smoke. Would be an ok inbetween. 

So basically you want to play a stock Kagero in T7 and have Asashio become an Ashitaka-like ship?

[HaachamaShipping]

50 minutes ago, Tirande said:

So basically you want to play a stock Kagero in T7 and have Asashio become an Ashitaka-like ship?

Except that a stock Kagero wouldn't suck as hard as Ashitaka. Ashitaka sucks because it gets pretty much no AA and the garbage AP shells that cannot pen anything that it cannot overmatch. also it has garbage concealment and terrible range. A stock Kagero at T7 has the same torpedoes as all T7, the same guns as Akatsuki, some better concealment but worse torpedo load than Akatsuki and 1 more gun for 200 meter concealment compared to Shiratsuyu. If you want to argue AA, IJN DDs all lack meaningful AA and the current T8 version has a grand total of 2 25 mm guns. These ships survive air attack by staying hidden, smoking up or running towards AA cover and a stock Kagero is not any worse off than an Akatsuki.

 

Ship would be balanced compared to the other two IJN T7 DDs and would at the very least have collectors value. It wouldn't be silly as it is now, but it would be a versatile ship and a viable captain trainer. Priced like a T7 premium DD, I could see it faring quite decent for anyone who likes IJN torp boats, as it'd be basically for people who liked Akatsuki, but are willing to trade in some torpedo power for more competitive concealment or trade in some of Shiratsuyu's concealment for more staying power.

[Tirande]

4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Except that a stock Kagero wouldn't suck as hard as Ashitaka. Ashitaka sucks because it gets pretty much no AA and the garbage AP shells that cannot pen anything that it cannot overmatch. also it has garbage concealment and terrible range. A stock Kagero at T7 has the same torpedoes as all T7, the same guns as Akatsuki, some better concealment but worse torpedo load than Akatsuki and 1 more gun for 200 meter concealment compared to Shiratsuyu. If you want to argue AA, IJN DDs all lack meaningful AA and the current T8 version has a grand total of 2 25 mm guns. These ships survive air attack by staying hidden, smoking up or running towards AA cover and a stock Kagero is not any worse off than an Akatsuki.

 

Ship would be balanced compared to the other two IJN T7 DDs and would at the very least have collectors value. It wouldn't be silly as it is now, but it would be a versatile ship and a viable captain trainer. Priced like a T7 premium DD, I could see it faring quite decent for anyone who likes IJN torp boats, as it'd be basically for people who liked Akatsuki, but are willing to trade in some torpedo power for more competitive concealment or trade in some of Shiratsuyu's concealment for more staying power.

The drop in price'd be nice but frankly speaking, she's still a fine companion for a Kidd and Harekaze in a division. Kidd covers her AA weakness and deals with DDs well enough, though I've found myself able to fight most enemy ships in Asashio as she is now, my only true gripe with her is that the torps should hit CAs. If they did she'd prolly be too powerful, but at least she'd make a bigger impact on games. Maybe I'm asking for too much but in earnest, the pre-nerf Shiratsuyu state would also not be bad for her.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Tirande said:

The drop in price'd be nice but frankly speaking, she's still a fine companion for a Kidd and Harekaze in a division. Kidd covers her AA weakness and deals with DDs well enough, though I've found myself able to fight most enemy ships in Asashio as she is now, my only true gripe with her is that the torps should hit CAs. If they did she'd prolly be too powerful, but at least she'd make a bigger impact on games. Maybe I'm asking for too much but in earnest, the pre-nerf Shiratsuyu state would also not be bad for her.

At the very least make it Kidd or Harekaze. Triple DD divisions are pretty terrible, if they plan to stick together. Likely a better approach is pairing Asashio with a cruiser. And the torpedoes hitting cruisers would be OP as all hell. Not with potential 16 km range and 72 knots speed. You'd be deleting ships all around with minimal skill, just creating area denial spreads and torpedoing cruisers from outside detection range or radar cruisers from stand-off range as soon as they seem preoccupied with something else. It'd be so atrocious.

[Tirande]

16 hours ago, Riselotte said:

At the very least make it Kidd or Harekaze. Triple DD divisions are pretty terrible, if they plan to stick together. Likely a better approach is pairing Asashio with a cruiser. And the torpedoes hitting cruisers would be OP as all hell. Not with potential 16 km range and 72 knots speed. You'd be deleting ships all around with minimal skill, just creating area denial spreads and torpedoing cruisers from outside detection range or radar cruisers from stand-off range as soon as they seem preoccupied with something else. It'd be so atrocious.

Like I said, I may be biased to Asashio in what I'd like from her. Still, having a way to scare off cruisers wouldn't be a bad thing; and 3 man dd divisions are mainly for the purpose of trolling the enemy and having fun. They're not meant to be great or OP, they're meant for giddy enjoyment of oneself.

 

[HaachamaShipping]

13 minutes ago, Tirande said:

Like I said, I may be biased to Asashio in what I'd like from her. Still, having a way to scare off cruisers wouldn't be a bad thing; and 3 man dd divisions are mainly for the purpose of trolling the enemy and having fun. They're not meant to be great or OP, they're meant for giddy enjoyment of oneself.

 

It also trolls your team though if the 3 DDs all stick together and hardly split up. Which typically occurs with 3 DD divisions.

[Tirande]

2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

It also trolls your team though if the 3 DDs all stick together and hardly split up. Which typically occurs with 3 DD divisions.

Eh, we tend to stick together for the first cap to pop any and all DDs contesting the first cap and then we split up to cap where needed with Asashio carpet torping BB heavy areas, Kidd providing AA support and Harekaze trying to contest caps and spotting torps. Sadly atm we're only running 2 man DD divisions since the third player is mostly busy with irl stuff. Also in case you're wondering why IJN Premiums get shafted but USN Premiums tend to be on the upper end of the spectrum (after supreme soviet supremacy):