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Mastadans

Team damage penalty optional

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Long ago, I played a game known as Savage. If you got killed (in WoS would be simply team damage or killed as well), you had the option to forgive that player by simply pressing F2 (no), so no penalty be applied. 

We all know sh*t happens and many of the team damage isn't done by purpose, so this option would be nice to be applied also in WG's games.

 

Ty.

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All team damage is bad, whether intentional or not. It shouldn't be up to individual players to decide if bad behavior should be punished or not.

While being more lenient in cases of teamkilling might be appropriate in other games where banning is the only punishment available, for WoWs they can be more liberal with the punishment since it has very mild consequences.

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7 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

All team damage is bad, whether intentional or not. It shouldn't be up to individual players to decide if bad behavior should be punished or not.

While being more lenient in cases of teamkilling might be appropriate in other games where banning is the only punishment available, for WoWs they can be more liberal with the punishment since it has very mild consequences.

 

I may agree with that but, 'to err is human, to forgive divine'.

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3 minutes ago, Mastadans said:

I may agree with that but, 'to err is human, to forgive divine'.

People might make more of an effort not to "err" if they know that they always get punished.

 

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This has been suggested before but it's not had the support it need to be adopted.

 

A lot depends on the type of damage.  For instance firing torps from the second (or further back) or just a collision.  Personally, I think that friendly torp damage should be punished as it's careless play and the damage can be bad especially if the player does not have repair available or if it is chooses to not use it.

 

Other types of poor play does not mean that there is team damage but it's almost as bad.  I had a game in a Maas today and I was in trouble and had smoked and grounded against a island.  A friendly BB came along and pushed me out of the smoke.  I'm not sure why a BB was that far forward either......

 

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45 minutes ago, Mastadans said:

Long ago, I played a game known as Savage. If you got killed (in WoS would be simply team damage or killed as well), you had the option to forgive that player by simply pressing F2 (no), so no penalty be applied. 

We all know sh*t happens and many of the team damage isn't done by purpose, so this option would be nice to be applied also in WG's games.

 

Ty.

Current teamkilling-punishing system (with the possible exception of how damage over time is handled) is, actually, pretty lenient. If you just make an honest mistake, you get a couple games pink. If you manage to make enough mistakes to actually be punished, then you're extremely unlucky or your behavior is a problem. If you make enough mistakes to be punished repeatedly then your behavior DEFINITELY is a problem and you need to start looking where and when you're torping, because it's not even just the friendly ships you've sunk: for every torp eaten by your teammates there are a couple that forced them into unfavorable situations or prevented them from taking advantage of some opportunity - just because they had to avoid your torps.

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5 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

People might make more of an effort not to "err" if they know that they always get punished.

 

download.png

Wouldn't be this up to the victim to decide as is the only affected by the damage?

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I'm for a more immediate punishment system: the second you do team damage, it gets all reflected even if no previous team damage was done.

Easy, fast and it prevents griefing and abusing the system, plus it's clear from the get-go.

 

The player may or may not forgive the guy who tried to damage him, which may remove the neagitve karma.

But ingame? Frak no. You do team damage, it gets refelcted straight back.

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It isn't all correct. I see I have 3 battles in pink for leaving the battle. But I had to leave because I had infinite planes (due to no better description)  on my screen. 

 

Now 3 penalty battles isn't heavy. But it wasn't my fault I had to leave. :Smile_sad: 

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30 minutes ago, Mastadans said:

Wouldn't be this up to the victim to decide as is the only affected by the damage?

He's not, though. The whole team is.

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15 minutes ago, eliastion said:
47 minutes ago, Mastadans said:

Wouldn't be this up to the victim to decide as is the only affected by the damage?

He's not, though. The whole team is.

^ This

And also if the punishment results in the player being more careful going forward, then that also affects his future teammates.

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I can already see ingame messages like:

"Forgive me you *** or I torp you again and this time for real"

or forum posts like:

"Why are people not forgiving me when it's their fault they turned in my torpedos!??1! WG should force them to forgive whenever they move between me and an enemy!!"

 

This suggestion is really nice, but nice things don't work in a cancerous environment:Smile_trollface:

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Though a very good idea I don't expect to get a reasonable answer here. I have and have been TK-ed in complete sensory overload situations where in the total heat of the moment the other player or me just overlooked the other in a perfectly reasonable way. That other player and me exhausted in apologies. Heck in my 8.2k matches I've been really deliberately TK-ed 3 or 4 times (IIRC)? And yes I must admit I did it once or twice myself. Not proud of it. Not at all. And in those cases I truly deserved the punishment. Heck: even a more severe one would be in order.

My strong suggestion would indeed be to implement a "forgive" function. Something like: "you have been TK-ed or got x amount of team dmg (which will exclude the accidental bumbs or scrapings). Do you "forgive him/ her?" Yes there's going to be trolling there as well but like said: it's my responsibility so if an ally doesn't "forgive " me despite apologies, I'll have to suffer the consequences. But I don't believe that'll happen a lot. The deliberate TK trolls are so extremely rare in my experience.

But like I said: not expecting a reasonable answer regarding this matter here...

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The system as it is now do not differentiate between secondary fire and and you firing, and if ships sail in between you and the enemy when you fire. and if someone friendly is sailing in to you.

 

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4 hours ago, Gunnar_Pedersen said:

The system as it is now do not differentiate between secondary fire and and you firing, and if ships sail in between you and the enemy when you fire. and if someone friendly is sailing in to you.

 

Actually, don't secondaries go silent when some ally moves between your target and yourself? I'm not 100% positive but I think there was something like that (although it's probably possible to still score secondary friendly fire with some wild dispersion rolls).

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29 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Actually, don't secondaries go silent when some ally moves between your target and yourself? I'm not 100% positive but I think there was something like that (although it's probably possible to still score secondary friendly fire with some wild dispersion rolls).

Secondaries can still fire and hit your allies, however those instances that happend my secondaries did 0 damage. Could be a fluke or intentional, I don't know for sure.

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Hi all,

 

I played one relaxing CoOp game in my brand new "Varyag" where I accidentally hit friendly DD with 2 HE shells (1300 damage in total). He simply passed absolutely closest possible in front me while I was firing and this was 100% unavoidable by me (I was in binocular view)...

 

I got 2 (yes 2) games in "Pink" and he didn't even die (i.e. he survived the battle)... :Smile_amazed:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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7 hours ago, Gunnar_Pedersen said:

The system as it is now do not differentiate between secondary fire and and you firing, and if ships sail in between you and the enemy when you fire. and if someone friendly is sailing in to you.

 

Which is wrong. Secondaries were reworked in this regard ages ago and don't do team damage anymore, nor do they set allies on fire anymore.

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11 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

Which is wrong. Secondaries were reworked in this regard ages ago and don't do team damage anymore, nor do they set allies on fire anymore.

 

That is correct - it was changed a number of patches ago.   Does someone think that is no longer the case?

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1 minute ago, BrusilovX said:

 

That is correct - it was changed a number of patches ago.   Does someone think that is no longer the case?

As far as I understood, the guy I quoted does.

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Vor 2 Stunden, Leo_Apollo11 sagte:

I played one relaxing CoOp game in my brand new "Varyag" where I accidentally hit friendly DD with 2 HE shells (1300 damage in total). He simply passed absolutely closest possible in front me while I was firing and this was 100% unavoidable by me (I was in binocular view)...

Shooting team mates is never unavoidable ;)
Have a look at the minimap, leave binocular view after each salvo and you won't hit team mates again ^^

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I added a suggestion in the Suggestion Thread to include an in-game command with which you can warn friendly ships for torpedoes.

This could also be used when someone strays into your own torpedoes.

I've also suggested that, if you use that option in a timely fashion, giving your teammate time to change heading, it should not count as an infraction if your teammate still manages to hit your torpedoes.

I am talking about at least 30 seconds or more in advance, something like that, perhaps even more.

 

Reason for me to suggest this was that I was in my brand-new Asashio and had launched 20 km range torps, well ahead of a friendly who was moving in a different direction.

He turned and headed towards my torpedoes, did not want him running into them by accident, so I warned him explicitly.

I was busy myself, so after that first warning, just used the in-game command: teammate, fall back!

In total, I warned him about 4-5 times, over about 1-2 mins, I think.

He ignored all of that, kept going, managed to hit one or two of my torpedoes.

Him being a BB, damage being reduced, he lived.

Reflected damage however killed me, taking us one ship down, taking me out of the game and costing us points.

 

I think that punishment should be proportional and if you did your best to prevent it, that should count for something.

Your team is not helped by removing a player who damaged or even sank a teammate by accident.

The game cannot differentiate between an accident and an intentional act.

Using a specific key to warn your teammate could help the game differentiate between the two.

IF you make a mistake, but try to remedy it in time, it should take that into account.

Otherwise you potentially lose two players, setting the team back as a whole.

No one benefits from that.

 

Of course it is better not to torp from the second line at all, but we all make mistakes, I certainly do.

Which is why it should matter if you realise your mistake and try to prevent it from having adverse consequences.

 

As for hitting someone with guns, that often happens in the heat of the moment when zoomed in.

There are situations where you can't even see the friendly ship in between, or think your shells will easily clear it.

At other times, you're trying to help a teammate who is about to be rammed by an enemy and want to prevent that, but end up hitting your ally with a shell or two.

Again, the game can't really differentiate.

There should be an immediate in game warning, as there is now.

But a real penalty should only be applied if it is clear that it was intentional (which the game basically can't know).

Again, if damage is reflected and you die, at worst your team is down two ships all of a sudden and you won't even be able to try and make up for your mistake.

 

The 'forgive' option might not even be such a bad idea imho.

Why?
Because it allows people to prevent someone from being punished who does not deserve it.

Of course there will be angry/sad players who will punish someone for an honest mistake.

But at least those of us who are not will be able to forgive and move on, allow that person to try and make up for it.

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