Asashio - Just want to address the elephant in the room.

[KarmaQU_EU]

11 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Except its alpha is not noticeably better than a Benson or a Kagero and certainly falls short of a Z-23 and with 20 seconds bloom time at almost 11 km range, there'll be several salvos coming back before you could fade into stealth, if you even can (given if you high-tail at your 35 knots speed, even speed boost won't make you faster than a good few enemy DDs and even CAs). Unless your target only has like 2k hp and dies to one or two salvos or you have no means of running away, betting on your gun power is pretty dumb.

 

The guns have good ballistics, as all IJN guns have since the Mutsuki/Minekaze. They are better than no guns and they do some damage. They might occasionally score a kill and the best use is for kiting enemy DDs if one absolutely has to use the guns. But I'd never call this overall package "good" and while IJN DDs should not forget they have guns, calling them good gives the impression that these guns actually are "competitive", which they absolutely are not. Insofar, the repeated claims of "Well, the Asashio still has ok guns that can be used" seems misleading to Asashio captains who buy the ship thinking they have any chance to gun down any competent gunboat or hybrid DD, just to then find out the hard way that likely most other DDs will just rip this boat a new one if they come across it.

If I was in a Benson and an Asashio was shooting at me, I'd still be concerned. The guns are not negligible. I've killed cruisers with them. Much less DDs.

WG made sure those guns are usable and the ship is not a T8 Kamikze R. Though even Kamikaze can gun down other DDs because it is very maneuverable.

 

The return salvos, even from enemy cruisers and DDs focus-firing you for full 20 secs, will usually result in no more than 1/3 of your HP missing. It's not an instant death sentence as you might be inclined to think. As long as you are high-tailing it out of there.

 

And regarding fire-rate DPM, it's actually less effective in actual combat because some guns will have angle-locked down-time from the DD hard-maneuvering. Thus the spacey reload time for Asashio compared to dedicated gunboat DDs but with less guns is actually less a big difference because the Asashio can use that downtime to wiggle to the extent of angle-locking the guns, during which even if they were reloaded and ready they couldn't fire. The concentration of 2 turrets to the rear to allow for firing even while running away is a small strength as with the original Shimakaze too. That's why meeting a Shimakaze in a Gearing is not an automatic win. Guns are not negligible.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

If I was in a Benson and an Asashio was shooting at me, I'd still be concerned. The guns are not negligible. I've killed cruisers with them. Much less DDs.

WG made sure those guns are usable and the ship is not a T8 Kamikze R. Though even Kamikaze can gun down other DDs because it is very maneuverable.

 

The return salvos, even from enemy cruisers and DDs focus-firing you for full 20 secs, will usually result in no more than 1/3 of your HP missing. It's not an instant death sentence as you might be inclined to think. As long as you are high-tailing it out of there.

 

And regarding fire-rate DPM, it's actually less effective in actual combat because some guns will have angle-locked down-time from the DD hard-maneuvering. Thus the spacey reload time for Asashio compared to dedicated gunboat DDs but with less guns is actually less a big difference because the Asashio can use that downtime to wiggle to the extent of angle-locking the guns, during which even if they were reloaded and ready they couldn't fire.

The Benson only has to be concerned if the Asashio manages to turn around fast enough to allow for an abuse of the USN shell ballistics. If the Asashio gets into a fight with the Benson without planning for it ahead, the Asashio will first need to turn around, during which she potentially already loses a ton of hp and bring the guns to bear. If the asashio turned around, a Benson is faster, opening up the distance is impossible. If the Asashio runs into a Lo Yang, it cannot even turn around before being in hydro range and can just hope it does not eat enough damage. If Asashio runs into any of the gunboats/hybrids with good ballistics, it's just dead.

 

And against a cruiser, unless the cruiser has no hp, is utterly dumb or is preoccupied with more important matters, an Asashio killing a cruiser with guns is hardly ever going to happen. It's like claiming a Harekaze can kill cruisers with its guns easily, because a few days ago I killed a Zao with AP in the side. Did the enemy underestimate 10 cm AP? Maybe. But it was mostly possible because that Zao was engaged in a fight with a Moskva. And people might underestimate the Asashio and go after more pressing concerns, bt typically that is the better play, because you don't angle vs a Harekaze just to get wrecked by Moskva AP and with an Asashio, your gun threat also will likely be lower than any other threat. Basically, at the point where a cruiser lets you kill them without blasting your ship out of the water, they already messed up to the point where they'd likely die anyway. But every other DD would likely have been better at the job and in a 1 v1, any other DD could try to torp that cruiser if the chances of winning a gun duel are slim. Asashio cannot. It has to bet on the gun duel or give up.

[KarmaQU_EU]

18 hours ago, Riselotte said:

The Benson only has to be concerned if the Asashio manages to turn around fast enough to allow for an abuse of the USN shell ballistics. If the Asashio gets into a fight with the Benson without planning for it ahead, the Asashio will first need to turn around, during which she potentially already loses a ton of hp and bring the guns to bear. If the asashio turned around, a Benson is faster, opening up the distance is impossible. If the Asashio runs into a Lo Yang, it cannot even turn around before being in hydro range and can just hope it does not eat enough damage. If Asashio runs into any of the gunboats/hybrids with good ballistics, it's just dead.

 

And against a cruiser, unless the cruiser has no hp, is utterly dumb or is preoccupied with more important matters, an Asashio killing a cruiser with guns is hardly ever going to happen. It's like claiming a Harekaze can kill cruisers with its guns easily, because a few days ago I killed a Zao with AP in the side. Did the enemy underestimate 10 cm AP? Maybe. But it was mostly possible because that Zao was engaged in a fight with a Moskva. And people might underestimate the Asashio and go after more pressing concerns, bt typically that is the better play, because you don't angle vs a Harekaze just to get wrecked by Moskva AP and with an Asashio, your gun threat also will likely be lower than any other threat. Basically, at the point where a cruiser lets you kill them without blasting your ship out of the water, they already messed up to the point where they'd likely die anyway. But every other DD would likely have been better at the job and in a 1 v1, any other DD could try to torp that cruiser if the chances of winning a gun duel are slim. Asashio cannot. It has to bet on the gun duel or give up.

Asashio has smoke. Smoke up then pelt them cruisers.

[GhostRiderMax123]

Having had a few battles in this DD now I have come to the conclusion that it really does need the ability to hit cruisers with its torpedoes. its as simple as that really. heck I'd even give up smoke just to be able to do that. 

 

 

[Gojuadorai]

On 28.4.2018 at 1:47 PM, Rowboat_Cop said:

Asashio - Just want to address torpedo the elephant in the room

 

FTFY

[HaachamaShipping]

4 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Asashio has smoke. Smoke up then pelt them cruisers.

If there is noone else around, this denies you vision. If the cruiser is not preoccupied and has hp, it can rush your smoke (not having to fear getting torpedoed). If it has radar/hydro, this does not work at all.

[ShinGetsu]

You need to stop playing this game if you fear the Asashio guns while playing a Benson. Really. At this point, you're beyond help.