Asashio - Just want to address the elephant in the room.

[Tivook]

3 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Ok then: As you said, Asashio should hit cruisers too, because it is too weak. 

Yes and I'd say most people are in favour of that.

A ship that performs poorly at everything except stealthy torpedoes should not only be able to hit BB's. cruisers have excellent turning rate, spotting plane, hydro etc. There's no reason why Asashio shouldn't hit cruisers. It would be far better if Pan Asian DD's were unable to hit cruisers because they have excellent AA suite, excellent guns, better speed, oh did I mention that it has radar? Yeah, they have radar from T8.

What does the Asashio have? Nothing. Bad guns, bad speed, non existent AA suite. It has DWT and that's it. Hardly a fair trade off if you ask me.

[Tivook]

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Oh, ffs no. Not without a massive range nerf and maybe even taking away TRB.

Lol. Why don't you ask Wargaming to give every Asashio owner a premium version of Hsienyang instead and be done with the argument.

[HappyFella]

I’ll reassert my point. Regardless of who is doing it in this thread I find calling someone out on their stats  in my opinion makes you seem petty and just a tad insecure.

 

i even stopped following a particular twitch streamer, when during a stream, at the end of a battle that they lost, and proceeded as always to blame their team for the loss, his division mate then looked up the stats for a teammate and then they both continued to bash his stats for the next minute or three!

 

Childish...in my humble opinion. :)

[lup3s]

1 hour ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Not only that.

Shimakaze is the only T9/T10 DD that he ever played.

 

Can my Shima join the epeen battle?

 

24 minutes ago, Tivook said:

Yes and I'd say most people are in favour of that.

A ship that performs poorly at everything except stealthy torpedoes should not only be able to hit BB's. cruisers have excellent turning rate, spotting plane, hydro etc. There's no reason why Asashio shouldn't hit cruisers. It would be far better if Pan Asian DD's were unable to hit cruisers because they have excellent AA suite, excellent guns, better speed, oh did I mention that it has radar? Yeah, they have radar from T8.

 

I'd say most people aren't in favour of Asashio's DWTs hitting Cruisers .. unless their spotting range gets increased.

 

And about the PA DDs; it's true they can equip radar starting at T8, in exchange for their smoke consumable.. Unless you're in a PA - USN DD division, I don't think many players would think the radar to be a viable choice.

[tank276]

19 minutes ago, Tivook said:

Yes and I'd say most people are in favour of that.

 

Did you organise a poll or is it the usual "I think its true, so everyone else thinks its true"?

A ship that performs poorly at everything except stealthy torpedoes 
What does the Asashio have? Nothing. Bad guns, bad speed, non existent AA suite. It has DWT and that's it. Hardly a fair trade off if you ask me.

Why did you buy it then?

I mean even me, who was sure I wouldnt buy the damn thing, was informed of the fact that the torps hit only BBs and Carriers.

 

[HaachamaShipping]

4 minutes ago, Tivook said:

Yes and I'd say most people are in favour of that.

A ship that performs poorly at everything except stealthy torpedoes should not only be able to hit BB's. cruisers have excellent turning rate, spotting plane, hydro etc. There's no reason why Asashio shouldn't hit cruisers. It would be far better if Pan Asian DD's were unable to hit cruisers because they have excellent AA suite, excellent guns, better speed, oh did I mention that it has radar? Yeah, they have radar from T8.

What does the Asashio have? Nothing. Bad guns, bad speed, non existent AA suite. It has DWT and that's it. Hardly a fair trade off if you ask me.

As I said earlier, I do not approve of Asashio in its current form and I do not think it is a good ship as is. I do however also think that being able to delete a cruiser from that far away in random spread is utterly retarded and just like high-tier German BB, no cruiser will have hydro up all the time just because Asashio might torp them. Hydro is for when you know a DD is close by and you are under increased threat of getting torped or for rushing a smoke. It is not for thwarting general long-range torpedo threats that may or may not materialise. Such is a waste of hydro.

 

And it is not spectacularly hard to learn how to torp past a spotter plane. Time it right and you are fine. Asashio with high speed, low detectability torpedoes makes it even easier, especially since aerial detection of torpedoes was nerfed. and as I stated earlier, what does excellent turning rate mean if you get 4 seconds warning and two torpedoes out of 16 is all it needs to delete your ship? And apart from the RN cruisers, most cruisers at higher levels don't turn that well. Some are on BB levels of turning radius.

2 minutes ago, Tivook said:

Lol. Why don't you ask Wargaming to give every Asashio owner a premium version of Hsienyang instead and be done with the argument.

If I had bought an Asashio (which I didn't, because the concept is crap), then because I want an IJN premium DD, not some USN boat with DWT. And if I wanted a premium Hsienyang, I'd get a Lo Yang, because Hydro > DWT. And if you make the Asashio a Kagero with DWT version of Kagero torpedoes, then it certainly is no Hsienyang, but already better than Asashio, because it doesn't play retarded, it still has a glaring weakness vs two types of ships (DDs and CVs), but it can at least fend of cruisers. DDs you might kill with guns, but good luck if you are up against a Mogami or a Chapayev that still has hp. Asashio cannot torpedo it and the DPM and hp difference is so lop-sided, you'd never win, short of the one in a million detonation shot. Failing that, give it regular torpedoes. If you really want to make it a special meme boat, give it F3s. That's distinct and with 5.4 km concealment, you can stealth torp and delete most larger ships and in knife fights vs DDs, these torpedoes add value still. Just need to play around radar, but that would require skill and skill-based gameplay is certainly not what you associate with Asashio.

[Tivook]

7 minutes ago, DiggerPH said:

I’ll reassert my point. Regardless of who is doing it in this thread I find calling someone out on their stats  in my opinion makes you seem petty and just a tad insecure.

 

i even stopped following a particular twitch streamer, when during a stream, at the end of a battle that they lost, and proceeded as always to blame their team for the loss, his division mate then looked up the stats for a teammate and then they both continued to bash his stats for the next minute or three!

 

Childish...in my humble opinion. :)

So you mean I'm childish because I responded to his initial comment where he stated I need more experience with high tier DD's when in fact we have comparable stats with the same ships? I think you need to read up more before you respond.

[Tivook]

20 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

As I said earlier, I do not approve of Asashio in its current form and I do not think it is a good ship as is. I do however also think that being able to delete a cruiser from that far away in random spread is utterly retarded and just like high-tier German BB, no cruiser will have hydro up all the time just because Asashio might torp them. Hydro is for when you know a DD is close by and you are under increased threat of getting torped or for rushing a smoke. It is not for thwarting general long-range torpedo threats that may or may not materialise. Such is a waste of hydro.

 

And it is not spectacularly hard to learn how to torp past a spotter plane. Time it right and you are fine. Asashio with high speed, low detectability torpedoes makes it even easier, especially since aerial detection of torpedoes was nerfed. and as I stated earlier, what does excellent turning rate mean if you get 4 seconds warning and two torpedoes out of 16 is all it needs to delete your ship? And apart from the RN cruisers, most cruisers at higher levels don't turn that well. Some are on BB levels of turning radius.

If I had bought an Asashio (which I didn't, because the concept is crap), then because I want an IJN premium DD, not some USN boat with DWT. And if I wanted a premium Hsienyang, I'd get a Lo Yang, because Hydro > DWT. And if you make the Asashio a Kagero with DWT version of Kagero torpedoes, then it certainly is no Hsienyang, but already better than Asashio, because it doesn't play retarded, it still has a glaring weakness vs two types of ships (DDs and CVs), but it can at least fend of cruisers. DDs you might kill with guns, but good luck if you are up against a Mogami or a Chapayev that still has hp. Asashio cannot torpedo it and the DPM and hp difference is so lop-sided, you'd never win, short of the one in a million detonation shot. Failing that, give it regular torpedoes. If you really want to make it a special meme boat, give it F3s. That's distinct and with 5.4 km concealment, you can stealth torp and delete most larger ships and in knife fights vs DDs, these torpedoes add value still. Just need to play around radar, but that would require skill and skill-based gameplay is certainly not what you associate with Asashio.

So you wanna balance a DD around the random possibility of getting a once in a blue moon 20 km torpedo hit? Sounds really smart bro, really smart.

Cruiser players know when a DD is eyeballing them, the odds of torpedos hitting a cruiser at 20 km is slim to none because at some point one of those torp(s) get detected by someone, all the cruiser needs to do is calculate the spread and take evasive action.

Even IF a cruiser gets hit at 20 km it's extremely random and really pure luck. A ship that is bad at everything should at least do something properly.

You can't balance a game around how stupid people would handle the situation, you need to balance it around how smart people deal with it.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

20 minutes ago, Tivook said:

So you mean I'm childish because I responded to his initial comment where he stated I need more experience with high tier DD's when in fact we have comparable stats with the same ships? I think you need to read up more before you respond.

 

Yes, because - as I stated - you only ever played one high tier DD (Shimakaze).

(Not even a single T9 one)

 

You are the stats guy here - and a bad one.

[Tivook]

21 minutes ago, tank276 said:

Yes and I'd say most people are in favour of that.

 

Did you organise a poll or is it the usual "I think its true, so everyone else thinks its true"?

A ship that performs poorly at everything except stealthy torpedoes 
What does the Asashio have? Nothing. Bad guns, bad speed, non existent AA suite. It has DWT and that's it. Hardly a fair trade off if you ask me.

Why did you buy it then?

I mean even me, who was sure I wouldnt buy the damn thing, was informed of the fact that the torps hit only BBs and Carriers.

I said, "I'd say" meaning in my opinion of what I've read on the matter. I didn't say "everyone agrees with me". don't twist my words, don't act like fake news media.

Why did I buy it then? I read DWT and DD with 20 km torps and thought it sounded nice, didn't think I'd have to go in deep and find out it's a unique ship with one of a kind torps that go so deep that it's more of a hazard for submarines than actual ships.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Tivook said:

So you wanna balance a DD around the random possibility of getting a once in a blue moon 20 km torpedo hit? Sounds really smart bro, really smart.

Cruiser players know when a DD is eyeballing them, the odds of torpedos hitting a cruiser at 20 km is slim to none because at some point one of those torps get detected by someone, all the cruiser needs to do is calculate the spread and take evasive action.

Even IF a cruiser gets hit at 20 km it's extremely random and really pure luck. A ship that is bad at everything should at least do something properly.

You can't balance a game around how stupid people would handle the situation, you need to balance it around how smart people deal with it.

If this ship was about how smart people work with a ship, it would be a Loyang or Harekaze, not an Asashio.

 

As for cruisers knowing when the DD is torping them, yeah, sure... go play some more high tier cruisers and/or PA DDs and tell me how that works out.

[Tivook]

1 minute ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Yes, because - as I stated - you only ever played one high tier DD (Shimakaze).

 

You are the stats guys here - and a bad one.

That must also make you a bad one since we have almost identical stats with Shimakaze.

Do I even have to mention that you have 47% WR with Kutuzov, the most OP cruiser on T8? You need to look up the word humble real fast because you're not that good.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

4 minutes ago, Tivook said:

That must also make you a bad one since we have almost identical stats with Shimakaze.

Do I even have to mention that you have 47% WR with Kutuzov, the most OP cruiser on T8? You need to look up the word humble real fast because you're not that good.

 

And you still do not understand a single thing.

 

No1 said anything about stats, but you. My point was always that you only played a single DD, nothing else.

 

And bringing up some old Kutu stats now is really desperate.

[tank276]

10 minutes ago, Tivook said:

I said, "I'd say" meaning in my opinion of what I've read on the matter. I didn't say "everyone agrees with me". don't twist my words, don't act like fake news media.

 

I never twisted anything. You expressed an opinion for most of people without having asked them, so it is your opinion which you want to pass as everyone's.

Plus take the stick out of your a-hole, you can have an argument by not insulting everyone like a spoiled brat.

Bye now

[TheFierceRabbit]

57 minutes ago, DiggerPH said:

I’ll reassert my point. Regardless of who is doing it in this thread I find calling someone out on their stats  in my opinion makes you seem petty and just a tad insecure.

As DiggerPH has said, can we keep this on topic and not turned into personal insults or bullying based on a players stats.

 

@MrConway

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

1 minute ago, tank276 said:

you can have an argument by not insulting everyone like a spoiled brat.

Bye now

 

Probably the best idea here. 

[Tivook]

1 minute ago, tank276 said:

I never twisted anything. You expressed an opinion for most of people without having asked them, so it is your opinion which you want to pass as everyone's.

Plus take the stick out of your a-hole, you can have an argument by not insulting everyone like a spoiled brat.

Bye now

Again, from what I've read I'd say there are more ppl in favour of boosting it yes. Prove me wrong.

Buh bye fool.

[Tivook]

15 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

And you still do not understand a single thing.

 

No1 said anything about stats, but you. My point was always that you only played a single DD, nothing else.

 

And bringing up some old Kutu stats now is really desperate.

It's kinda funny how all your bad stats are old from waaaay way back. Excuses are like assholes. Everybody has one, and they all stink.

Also, it's extremely funny how I'm the stat guy here when you're the one with your stats in the signature, like anyone cares about that. You're the one hiding behind your stats not me.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

10 minutes ago, Tivook said:

It's kinda funny how all your bad stats are old from waaaay way back. Excuses are like assholes. Everybody has one, and they all stink.

Also, it's extremely funny how I'm the stat guy here when you're the one with your stats in the signature, like anyone cares about that. You're the one hiding behind your stats not me.

 

This is getting really desperate. Stop making a fool of yourself please. 

[Tivook]

4 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

This is getting really desperate. Stop making a fool of yourself please. 

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking about you.

"oh nah my shima stats are from way back, don't judge me on them" "oh nah my Kutuzov stats are from waay back, ignore them".

Meanwhile you're some kind of torp expert that ignores players that regularly play Shima with stats similar to yours. Just dissapear please, asap.

Also, nobody cares about your stats in the signature, nobody. It might be the highlight of your miserable life but realise that nobody cares.

[Tivook]

10 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

This is getting really desperate. Stop making a fool of yourself please. 

Lol this is gold. You're actually calling me a fool but you're the one who decided it was a good idea to use the Asashio in ranked season 9 gameplay?

Pure gold!

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

1 minute ago, Tivook said:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking about you.

"oh nah my shima stats are from way back, don't judge me on them" "oh nah my Kutuzov stats are from waay back, ignore them".

Meanwhile you're some kind of torp expert that ignores players that regularly play Shima with stats similar to yours. Just dissapear please, asap.

 

You are not addressing the point. You simply pick out some stats to offend people, without any relevance for the discussion. 

 

What do my Kutuzov stats have to do with your experience in high tier DD play? 

 

Are you trolling? 

[Tivook]

Just now, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

You are not addressing the point. You simply pick out some stats to offend people, without any relevance for the discussion. 

 

What do my Kutuzov stats have to do with your experience in high tier DD play? 

 

Are you trolling? 

Read my reply above your latest reply. I'm done with you. Calling others fools and whatnot while you sail the Asashio in ranked is just the final nail in the coffin.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

3 minutes ago, Tivook said:

Read my reply above your latest reply. I'm done with you. Calling others fools and whatnot while you sail the Asashio in ranked is just the final nail in the coffin.

 

Stop it already.

 

It shows 1 battle, and that I won.

Just like accusing me of "stat paddding in Kamikaze" before, which was 30 battles.

 

Are you for real?

[Tivook]

2 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Stop it already.

 

It shows 1 battle, and that I won.

Just like accusing me of "stat paddding in Kamikaze" before, which was 30 battles.

 

Are you for real?

One battle is enough. Nobody in their right mind brings Asashio to ranked gameplay, nobody.