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Sargento_YO

Let me tell you whats *edited* wrong with high tier CVs

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Allright... As I mentioned many times I'm usually a decent carrier player of tier 5, 6 and 7.

Now, I grinded all the way to tier X, Hakuryu. But despite my very best efforts I really can't make that work.

 

Now, check my personal rules when playing a carrier:

 

1) NEVER engage enemy fighters with mine near enemy ships which has high AA

2) When I engage enemy fighters with mines, and there is a second squad coming on, disengage the first one with an exit strafe and then strafe with the incoming ones while they are stunned.

3) NEVER attack an enemy high AA ship unless I have enought planes to overwhelm him. Say, I stay away from Minotaurs, Neptune, Des moines, and ships with 95+ plus AA rating... Unless they become a priority target. Also I avoid their possible "no flight zone"

4) Avoid my fighters to be strafed with enemy ones, if two of my fighter squads are attacking a single enemy squad one, if there is an enemy incoming one I disengage one of them to attack the oncoming one (to avoid being victim of the second situation)

5) If I'm attacking an enemy ship which I suspect could have defensive fire, I closely check if there is def fire activate when I attack it, and if for some reason there IS, I retreat my planes and wait 45 seconds to attack the same target.

6) bring the carrier as close to the battle as possible, but hide behind an island (so the planes would have less flight time to attack the target and come back from it)

 

Now, I can play with those rules really good with tier 5 to 7... But I swear... Every time I play with Hakuryu I find way too pro players or too frigging frustuating situations like today:

 

- I attacked a Fletcher (usually I'm really good with anvil attacks and sinking dds) but, despite the great danger that is attacking a dd which is protected by others ships, the target fletcher does:

-- Right next to being attacked activates defensive fire AA, which becomes totally impossible to connect any kind of torpedo or bomb attack, and even worse, activates smoke screen. Which makes any blind attack even MORE impossible. (Sometimes I do attempt a blind attack on a smoked dd when I play Ryujo, Hyriu and Kaga, with some sucess). Even worse, the smoked target shoots down all your planes without even appearing. And if I recall there was a "bad advice" video which says that using your AA from smoke screen it's a really bad idea.

- Together with that, HIgh AA cruisers can easly hide in smoke screen, plus lots of AA, plus really long range, plus going next to an island, can shoot down half of your planes (I swear, I played against a WORCHESTER, which the loading screen gave me NO data on it's AA other than "SOON!!" Which apparently has around 8,5 km of... 300 AA, PLUS the def AA consumable (around 1000) PLUS the manual AA (2000 per second) PLUS being next to an island (only being able to attack it from a single side, UNDER panic spread) PLUS being hide in smoke screen... Even my really best efforts were absolutely and totally useless.

- Attacked and attempted to strafe enemy fighters (in several battles) what happened: for some reason enemy fighters managed to disengage from my own planes and strafe the incoming ones. EVEN when I noticed such thing was impossible (Hell, I even timed the possible amount of time that your fighters can become struck when enemy ones strafe away to avoid my own planes being strafed by the incoming ones). Several times I noticed that enemy fighters AREN'T in the supposed position. And there is no posibility of lag (I have a 300 mbps optic fiber connection with 40 ms lag).

- Even when all those odds are against me, I try to play defensively, to protect my ships from enemy attacks, but the long AA keeps shooting down my planes. Leaving the enemy carrier freely attack my ships, which results in lots of "OMG, our CV it's so frigging noob, report him!!!11" (yes, "1" intended).

So, what must be done? I'm really sure that first: defensive fire consumable should be REALLY penalized (or even removed altogether!!!). And secondly, no ship should be able to use it's aa from smoke screen (like in the old versions!!).
But overall... Anyone could say "well, just learn to play tier VIII - X carriers" and give a good amount of advices (which believe me, I tried them all).

 

But seriously... There aren't ANY reasons of why I should master high tier carrier battles. They are forbidden from clan wars, and there are no "skirmish" equivalent from World of tanks... Also, IJN carriers does the exact same damage from tier V to tier X (8500 per torpedo, and around 4500 per bomb). The very only difference between Zuiho and Hakuryu it's that you can attack with 8 torpedo planes (which in practice, in my best efforts I can hit only 4 torpedoes even on a battleship, which makes a potential output of 34.000 (without any deductions for torpedo bulges and hitting bow and stern) Thats a potential of 75%? (around, I'm not good on maths) of max damage on a target... Vs Hakuryu, which can attack with 12 torpedo planes X 8500, and ASSUMING you can go past enemy fighters, past any smoked ships with def aa fire, and past any all the AA of a battleship, and past it's maneuvering... Say, if you re the very master of the carriers, hit him with the 6 torpedoes... 8500 X 6 = 51000 (without deductions from torpedo bulges) out of 92000 hitpoints, thats like 55% or so.

 

Nevertheless, in my case (and I can assure you, this is the same case of LOTS of the few carrier players which plays this game and tries to grind to high tier ones) I say "fvck it!!" And I go back to that sweet spot which is tier 5 - 7 carrier games. Tier 5 where there is no def aa consumable (unless I have the bad luck of meet a tier 6 ship) and even better, NO ship which can use it within smoke screen.
 

Yeah, you could say everything you want about "wargamming should give players tutorials of how to play high tier carrier battles" but seriously, due all those reasons I mentioned (and even more) there are NO tutorials that matters... Smoke screened ships which uses AA (and even worse Defensive fire... Or EVEN WORSE... Defensive fire INSIDE a smoke screen!!!!!)  should be removed!!

 

So, Wargamming staff. You want to know why so few people play high tier carrier battles? That's why. As for me, I will just stick with tier 5 - 7 and thats it.

Edited by NickMustaine
Inappropriate language
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[YARRR]
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Sounds like you actually met some decent players and got outplayed.

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[JR-IT]
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Why are you complaining? Aa at high tier is too weak! For this reason wg had to ad the worcester

 

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22 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

Why are you complaining? Aa at high tier is too weak! For this reason wg had to ad the worcester

 

*insert year of the CV meme here*

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10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

*insert year of the CV meme here*

 

Indeed, I was watching the stream, the kill rate is ludicrous.

Admittedly it is a totally extreme example as he used a build no-one would ever use for Randoms and there were no HE spammers blowing his AA off.

 

As to the OP, guess you just carry on clubbing seals in your maxed out T5/6/7 CV's where there's next to no meaningful AA on most ships and the CV players are relative newbies. Have fun pwning people.

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59 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

Why are you complaining? Aa at high tier is too weak! For this reason wg had to ad the worcester

 

What the frigging hell?? 506 at 5,2 km... PLUS 200 at 8.6 km (806) PLUS 200 for manual AA (400 + 506 = 906)... The video shows 2300 with defensive AA consumable (but the stats  doesn't counts manual AA so with the increase must be around 3000 damage per second), PLUS the panic PLUS shooting all this from smoke screen (from powercreep division) and all that without mentioning the facehugging an island problem???... There goes my last wish to ever play a high tier carrier battle again.

 

In that match I really thought "that Worcester must be a good player, plus Im a noob, must have the same aa as a minotaur, I will keep at least at 8 km away from it"... No... Just no frigging way.

But that doesn't really pinpoints the problem. I did kept away from that frigging OP ship, Smoke screen from dds plus aa def fire from them DO makes more troubles.

 

Nevertheless... nah, I will park my high tier carriers and will keep playing low ones until WG makes them fun. (Hopefully, not nerfing low tier ones in the process like they already did by removing manual attacks from tier 4 and 5).

 

Sure, anyone could say "oh, then how YOU would make them fun for everybody?"

Answer: I will NOT give such valuable info for free!!! (even if I truly know how to do it, if this important info would make someone else rich, in this case, by bringing lots of players to the game, I want my share too!!).
But truth be told... There are WG employees which are responsible for all this which must be earning a hell lot of money. THEY should think it, not the regular end user customer!!!

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16 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Admittedly it is a totally extreme example as he used a build no-one would ever use for Randoms and there were no HE spammers blowing his AA off.

 

It's going to make cheese divs even more cheesy, though.

 

However I can't help but feel like that Worcester only demonstrates everything that a cruiser should be able to do. She has all the necessary utility (and then some with radar) and she is more than capable of air denial even if it is way excessive when specialized for it.

But that's just another problem with the friggin' skills and not really a problem with the ship herself. Because in their infinite wisdom WG decided that you need to specialize to defend yourself against one of the core mechanics of the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

It's going to make cheese divs even more cheesy, though.

 

However I can't help but feel like that Worcester only demonstrates everything that a cruiser should be able to do. She has all the necessary utility (and then some with radar) and she is more than capable of air denial even if it is way excessive when specialized for it.

But that's just another problem with the friggin' skills and not really a problem with the ship herself. Because in their infinite wisdom WG decided that you need to specialize to defend yourself against one of the core mechanics of the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

All absolutely correct and most of it boils down to the way they've currently implemented CV's and a daft response to them. I agree at least the Worcester has the utility all cruisers should have.

There's an awful lot of core stuff that needs a total rework around CV's and AA.

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[UNICS]
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By the way - i`ve noticed that graphic settings influence the amount of lead you have to take for strafes, and manual drops :)

As long as planes are not rendered in CV POV (low settings) you actualy need way less lead, to avoid planes turning around for correction.

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Vor 1 Stunde, El2aZeR sagte:

Sounds like you actually met some decent players and got outplayed.

I feel a little bit guilty now :fish_aqua:

shot-18_04.27_21_32.55-0779.thumb.jpg.0fbdfc913ece3e7ad7a8ba706186b718.jpg

We actually met OP twice in a row. (Same map as well ^^)

 

My best moment in the game was ramming the Minotaur at the end xD

f9cd25cf76.png

 

Vor 18 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

It's going to make cheese divs even more cheesy, though.

 

However I can't help but feel like that Worcester only demonstrates everything that a cruiser should be able to do. She has all the necessary utility (and then some with radar) and she is more than capable of air denial even if it is way excessive when specialized for it.

But that's just another problem with the friggin' skills and not really a problem with the ship herself. Because in their infinite wisdom WG decided that you need to specialize to defend yourself against one of the core mechanics of the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So much this. Played the whole evening with Gearing+Worcester+CV division and it was so freekin hilarious :cap_haloween:

 

And I think Worcester has way too much utility. Def-AA, Hydro, Radar and Heal feels slightly OP.

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Edit: originally wrote another long post but I tought "Foch it! I will just stick to middle tier carriers.

 

Regarding the post above, Originally I tought Worchester would be like a Des moines, at worse case scenario. I stayed away away from it (at least 8 km) and wasn't enought at all. It was much, much worse.

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21 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

no ship should be able to use it's aa from smoke screen

Despite being a cruiser-main, i agree with you. If the planes can´t see me > i can not see the planes. And therefore i should not be able to shoot them.

 

Sure, Belfast and other late-war ships had AA-radars and could engage "invisible" planes... but since we don´t have artillery-radar in-game neither, i would oppose this.

 

 

Also, in general AA is a braindead automatic. Planes in range? - see them fall. AA should be weak when activated automatically and only have its 100% when targeted manually. Similar to, but different from the current system which gives you 30% more dps - atop of the 100% you already have.

 

This change could be made within minutes by changing some parameters, without a complete overhaul or re-coding entire parts of the game. It would enable good players do defend themselves from airstrikes and the "infinite-zoomview-Bobs" would get eaten by CVs.

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