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thiextar

Best skills to run on leningrad/ru dd gunboat line?

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What would be the best skills to run on a leningrad/the ru dd line?

 

Do i want ifhe?

 

aft?

 

bft?

 

Please motivate why i would want/not want certain skills.

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42 minutes ago, thiextar said:

What would be the best skills to run on a leningrad/the ru dd line?

 

Do i want ifhe?

 

aft?

 

bft?

 

Please motivate why i would want/not want certain skills.

for leningrad: definitely go expert marksman + AFT + concealment

 

this is my build for it: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000000100001010001000000100119

 

I think that build is suited for RU DDs (on the khaba line) until the tashkent. For tashkent/Khaba, give up on concealment.

 

People might have different builds, mainly:

- replacing priority target by preventive maintenance

- replacing superintendent by either bft (really not worth it imho) or demolition expert

 

 

my khaba (tashkent) is this one: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000100001010001100000100019

 

 

I'm going to call onto one of the DD demons of this forum, who probably has calculated a lot of the best values (have seen him do it for z52 on dd subforum)

 

behold, @Teob_VG

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5 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Isnt 10% better rof from bft worth a lot? or am i missing something?

Well, you get 4.5 seconds reload in stead of 5 seconds for leningrad for example.

 

Is it a nice buff? Sure. Is it worth the 3 points? Not in my opinion.

 

I'm quite sure your damage output would increase with demolition expert instead of BFT, but I went Superintendent. The extra speedboost can be nice (dno, game has to be long I guess), but the extra smoke is imho more useful, to get out of precarious situations, or to farm some enemy ships. But DE as three point skill certainly is viable.

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52 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Isnt 10% better rof from bft worth a lot? or am i missing something?

It is, but it also depends what you want to use it for and what you have to give up. Depending on your build, it can, for example, come down to the choice between

 - BFT (3 points)

 - DE (3 points)

 - AFT (4 points)

 - CE (4 points)

Imagine you have 7 points left.

If you want to make use of Leningrad's reasonable concealment and do nasty things to enemy DDs, obviously you need CE and BFT.

If you want to pretend to be a Khaba and annoy BBs - AFT and DE is the way to go.

 

Flamu recommends the following build for Leningrad

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000100011010000000000100119

And seeing how you don't have your own opinion yet and are looking for advice, that might be the good starting point to consider. Although note that this is Leningrad build - for example, in Russian line there are some ships (like the Khaba, for starters) that don't really have much use of concealment expert - they are expected to be spotted most of the time anyway and no matter how they spec, they'll get outspotted by any other t10 DD and won't be able to stealthtorp anybody who doesn't need to learn Braille's alphabet to read.

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8 hours ago, PzychoPanzer said:

for leningrad: definitely go expert marksman + AFT + concealment

 

- replacing superintendent by either bft (really not worth it imho) or demolition expert

 

my khaba (tashkent) is this one: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000100001010001100000100019

I think Flamu's Leningrad build @eliastion linked works best.

 

For the Kebab (and the Grozovoi line) you really don't need Expert Marksman. It's just a waste of 2 points.

 

In my opinion the relevant skills for the Kebab are:
1 point - PT and PM

2 points - AR and LS

3 points - SE, BFT, SI and DE with Vigilance being an option if you have trouble with torps. Pick three out of these skills.

4 points - AFT

 

As for IFHE, I've heard it does help with some armour thicknesses you encounter, but I don't think it's worth the points. It's supposedly more useful in lower tiers.

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1 hour ago, Runegrem said:

I think Flamu's Leningrad build @eliastion linked works best.

It's what I have, but with superintendent replaced by Adrenaline Rush and Preventive Maintenance.

 

While I have AR on a lot of DDs that are more in the torpboat spectrum, in the end it is by definition a skill that gets useful only when you take significant damage. (Also because on a lot of other boats I don't take/need AFT, so I have captain points to "waste") And while the Lenin is a good torpboat (especially for RU DD standards) I prefer to keep my health as long as possible, in case I have to make the difference at the end of the game. That's why I don't think AR to be that useful, and chose Super cause smoke makes me preserve that health.

 

Not saying that build is bad as such, just stating my reasons for not using it.

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AFT is a must have. Make sure your first 10 points are invested on:

1 Pt: Priority target/Preventative maintenance/Incoming fire Alert. It's up to you.

 

2 Pt: Last stand. DDs should always have this.

 

3 Pt: Demolition Expert. 5 sec gun reload with 10% fire chance on each shell is dangerous.

 

4 Pt: Advanced Firing Training. It gives you additional firing range which is extremely useful for these DDs. 

As for Leningrad, concealment expert will help it greatly because it gives it the ability to fire torpedoes in stealth, which improves the ship's versatility.

 

The first 10 points are revolved around a decent gunboat build ideal for Russian DDs.

 

Other useful skills for a captain with higher number of skill points:

Adrenaline Rush

Expert Marksman

Survivability Expert

Basic Firing training

 

 

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12 hours ago, Runegrem said:

As for IFHE, I've heard it does help with some armour thicknesses you encounter, but I don't think it's worth the points. It's supposedly more useful in lower tiers.

Half the BBs are anyway impervious to IFHE 130mm, thanks to every new BB being more and more small caliber spam proof.

While those original DD IFHE victims, 25mm cardboard skin USN BBs, make anyway nice AP target if they show side.

For DD caliber HEs IFHE actually helps more against cruisers:

http://proships.ru/stat/ships/834/

 

Though for long range/second line gunboat build without Concealment Expert IFHE would be option.

For cap contesting/hybrid gun&torpedo boat/multipurpose build there just aren't loose skill points to throw around, when Expert Marksman eats another two points over besides four needed by CE...

And Survivability Expert starting to give meaningfull hitpoint buff.

Though just like Adrenaline Rush giving that BFT equal 10% firerate buff only after having lost 50% of hp SE could be no use in many matches.

 

Similarly also extra smoke of SuperIntendent could give chance to do more damage but then again there are matches where smoke isn't used much.

Especially radar cruisers can make smoking bad idea.

And with Leningrad's speed spamming enemy from 12+km would be anyway quite safe if doing some maneuvering.

Though premium consumables should be used anyway to have one more charge, further lowering necessity of SI.

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13 hours ago, thiextar said:

Okay, thanks guys for all the tips! ill go with flamus build probably

Keep in mind that not all Russian DDs works with the same build.

The reason is turret traverse on some DDs (notably the Lenin) makes Expert Marksman almost mandatory.

Others dont benefit from concealment (Khaba) while most do, but usually there are better choices (Kiev, Tashkent)

 

Also skill choice depend on what you want to use the ship for.

Ranked? Survivability Expert and SI help you survive, and survival means more damage output (way more than BFT provides)

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For all out gunboats (Kiev, Tash, Udaloi, Khaba) I run PT, LS, SE, AFT, BFT, DE, SI in that order. Basically ditch the concealment for maximum dakka.

Leningrad is awkward as captain trainer, as she benefits considerably from Concealment Expert and Expert Marksman is almost mandatory. While former is welcome on Ognevoi and Grozovoi, both live without EM just fine. EM is welcome on single mount 130mm destroyers (Podvoisky, Gnevny, Minsk), but twin mounts on Kiev/Tashkent are workable without. I have no experience about Podvoisky, but Gnevny is plain inferior to her sister ship in Chinese service. And why you would want to train captain of inferior twin of a ship you already own (Minsk)?

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I run the following

preventative maintenance
last stand
expert marksman
BFT
DE
IFHE
CE

 

IFHE works on US and UK T5-7 BBs, all cruisers (except IJN centre decks) and all DDs. I do play it more as a DD rather than just a gunboat so the shorter gun range and faster firing guns are a bonus. Same build works for same and lower tier DDs but really needs to change for higher tiers when the hull plating thicknesses go up. 

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I have a 17pt captain for Leningrad / Gremy / Minsk. 

Almost unlocked the T8s so I don't know if EM is still needed, I might train a new captain then.

 

1. PT :

You're mostly firing , so you're spotted most of the time, it helps to know how many people are actually aiming at you to know if you should start disengaging.

 

2. LS + EM + AR :

You don't want to spend DCP on fixing rudder or engine + these ships really need the faster turret traverse imo + faster gun & torpedo reload if you get to lower health (especially useful in Gremy and Lenin as you can stealth torp with these).

 

3. SE + DE :

More health = you'll live longer (also a decent combo with AR) + higher chance to start BBQs.

You could forego DE and pick SI if you want an extra smoke and engine boost consumable. In fact, I'll probably pick SI once I get to the RU DD line that has heals.

 

4. CE :

Useful for Gremy and Lenin as they can reach a respectful concealment.

Further up the RU DD line I'll probably keep CE for the ones that lead to the Grozovoi, but I'll probably switch CE for AFT for the ones that lead to the Khaba.

You could forego DE or SI and pick AFT instead.

 

Order in which I picked them:

PT -> LS -> SE -> CE -> EM -> AR -> DE

 

Not sure yet on what I'll spend my last skill points.

 

 

 

If EM isn't needed on T8+ TU DDs, I'll probably pick (for the gunboat DDs) :

PT + PM

LS + AR

SE + SI + DE

AFT or CE

 

Maybe I would swap out DE and PM to get both AFT and CE, but I'm not sure.

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6 hours ago, lup3s said:

If EM isn't needed on T8+ TU DDs, I'll probably pick (for the gunboat DDs) :

PT + PM

LS + AR

SE + SI + DE

AFT or CE

 

Maybe I would swap out DE and PM to get both AFT and CE, but I'm not sure.

The Kiev and the Tashkent have sluggish turrets with a traverse time of 18.56s. It's manageble, but a bit of a pain to deal with. I think it's a matter of taste really. Ognevoi (upgraded guns only), Udaloi and Kebab get the fast 9s traverse time (Grozovoi gets 10s), so for them EM is a waste of points.

 

My Kebab commander runs that skill build which works well enough for me, but I'm thinking about either switching out DE or PM+AR for BTF since there are more carriers these days and the Kebab does have some manner of AA that can be boosted. I'm usually one who does more damage to other DDs than set fire on BBs though, so I'm not sure how -2% fire chance compares with 10% gun reload. Which is why I might just switch out AR+PM instead since AR gives 10% buff at 50% health, which may or may not happen soon in a fight. And torp reload isn't usually a big issue.

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Here are my thoughts about IFHE on DDs:

 

HE shells penetrate 1/6 of their caliber. Russian DDs have 130mm guns and can therefore penetrate 21mm of armor. IFHE increases this number by 30% which means you can penetrate 27mm of armor. Now you have to look at the ships where this gives you an advantage, which are tier 8 and 9 cruisers. That's not much considering IFHE costs 4 captain skill points. After all cruisers aren't your typical prey in a DD and you can just switch to AP if you have to fight one, so I wouldn't recommend it on DDs. There are two exceptions: tier 6 competitive and the IJN DD Akizuki. Tier 6 because BBs have thinner armor there and not as much superstructure as on higher tiers and the Akizuki because its 100mm guns are unable to penetrate BB superstructure with HE shells if you don't have IFHE.

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On 4/26/2018 at 12:17 AM, PzychoPanzer said:

for leningrad: definitely go expert marksman + AFT + concealment

 

this is my build for it: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000000100001010001000000100119

 

I think that build is suited for RU DDs (on the khaba line) until the tashkent. For tashkent/Khaba, give up on concealment.

 

People might have different builds, mainly:

- replacing priority target by preventive maintenance

- replacing superintendent by either bft (really not worth it imho) or demolition expert

 

 

my khaba (tashkent) is this one: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000100001010001100000100019

 

 

I'm going to call onto one of the DD demons of this forum, who probably has calculated a lot of the best values (have seen him do it for z52 on dd subforum)

 

behold, @Teob_VG

 

I am grateful for the vote of confidence but I actually don't like the Leningrad that much. I've only played like 10 matches in it or something and then I swapped my captain out.

 

However, for what it's worth, I ran this build at the time

 

wgN72gD.png

 

I didn't see the point of running CE that much as there aren't that many things that won't outspot you anyway. I played it like a mini khaba and although the sample size is totally inadequate, I was doing around 70k. You slot the engine boost mod on it and then you're going like 47kn for very long periods of time. At t7 there are few ships that can shoot well enough to nail you consistently.

 

 

Edit:

22 hours ago, Stormhawk_V said:

  

I take PT on the Grozo. It's not an especially fast or small DD so you need to know how many people are looking your way in order to maximise your impact. I won't comment on the other DDs as I am rubbish in them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Teob_VG said:

I didn't see the point of running CE that much as there aren't that many things that won't outspot you anyway.

Lenin with captain perk & camo has 6.6 detection range. Better than poor mahan & better than maass. Only 200 m worse than akats. Anyway, quite competitive at those tiers.

 

While I do understand the fun (well...) of playing khaba-style, on those tiers there's often not that many dds, and you'll need to cap. I'd do that anyway. That's my reason for taking CE. (and as I stated above, a lot of different builds aren't really bad as such, it's more a question of personal preferences)

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57 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

Lenin with captain perk & camo has 6.6 detection range. Better than poor mahan & better than maass. Only 200 m worse than akats. Anyway, quite competitive at those tiers.

 

While I do understand the fun (well...) of playing khaba-style, on those tiers there's often not that many dds, and you'll need to cap. I'd do that anyway. That's my reason for taking CE. (and as I stated above, a lot of different builds aren't really bad as such, it's more a question of personal preferences)

Yeah to be fair, I would never presume to know better than you. I have very few matches under tier 8 and I think that I was just dmg farming for the hell of it rather than going for the optimal build. Also I played it when the Shira was all the rage so it was usually me and a bunch of sneakier IJN DDs. I've not seen Mahans in ages.

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5 hours ago, Teob_VG said:

Yeah to be fair, I would never presume to know better than you. I have very few matches under tier 8 and I think that I was just dmg farming for the hell of it rather than going for the optimal build. Also I played it when the Shira was all the rage so it was usually me and a bunch of sneakier IJN DDs. I've not seen Mahans in ages.

Well, I'm still amazed lenin's concealment is that competitive.

 

But, I did really want your advice on the 3 points for the superintendent. I've heard criticism on that choice before. Most people seem to prefer BFT as another 3pt, which I really don't think is worth it. I think I'd rather spend it on DE or even vigilance.

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