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How to reduce toxic behaviour

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6 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

The thing is that one can tell a DD is playing extremely poor if the DD player yoloes towards enemies and uses guns and gets himself killed. That anyone could see.

But I do agree that some things you basically can't really tell unless you've experience dit yourself (like playing CV or something).

Same for every class. No experience=no opinion to share.

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On ‎11‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 12:32 AM, ghostbuster_ said:

Dont agree with that. You dont know how playing a DD feels like if you dont have any experience with DDs. To criticize other people, you must have your own experience with those ships. How can you possibly criticize a fletcher which lost a gunfight against yugumo if you didnt play fletcher yourself? I know that fletcher has to be a very "special" player. I know that because i played fletcher myself and i know how competent that DD is.

Well all I can say to that response I that I have been gaming longer than some people on these forums have been alive. There are always classes that regard themselves as "precious"  and will go into the stats of each individual element saying that this pixelated blob does it this way and that pixelated blob  is better at that way etc and you don't know that because you don't play them. At a tournament level where the players have fine tuned their knowledge to such a level that they will change their behaviour based on the finer stats of the blobs they face and change their strategy accordingly is not something that you will see in the majority of randoms. However, better players with better knowledge may outperform others  in randoms in localised areas because they can exploit the lack of knowledge displayed by their opponents.

 

Unless some basic principles of strategy are obeyed by the team as a  whole, which you can learn regardless of which class you play, the game will generally go fubar. Its no good saying that BB's need to get stuck in and tank when they cant always  rely on the cover provided by other ships and they risk being torped to hell. In effect you have a learned behaviour based on previous bad experiences of trying a tactic  and as a result players start playing safe aka camping (and maybe get better rewarded for doing so unjustly). This applies to all ships as well with regards to where they move and act. The DD's may not cover an area as well because they don't trust the BB's to do their job and so the vicious cycle continues.

 

As an example when your DD's always go to the same part of the map regardless of the agreed strategy by the rest of the group you get a situation where playing safe becomes more important initially than taking an objective. Its only the team that is able to adapt the best to a bad situation that will eventually win and this takes time and a few casualties. Its the quicker ships that can adjust who will make the difference.

 

Rage & toxic behaviour generally occurs either because you are not really playing the game to win and like to troll or because you don't understand how to read the map and adjust your position and like to tell everyone in flowery language how crap they are. We all do this from time to time and it doesn't need a precise knowledge of how a fletcher performs to know that and then being patronisingly lectured about that fact . At a basic level, that's just splitting hairs (which in itself can sow the seed of toxic behaviour).

 

Basic principles apply to all pvp games in order to win them and if they are not obeyed it will go wrong and there will be toxicity. I am sure all of us, regardless of how good a player we are have found ourselves in helpless situations because of others (and our own bad decisions) and get salty as a result. Unfortunately that's all part of the PvP world.

 

 

... Thinking a bit more, there is one element over which none of us have any control. When after playing very well in one game getting citadels etc followed by a game where you suddenly cant hit a cows arse with a banjo or all your shots have started bouncing ...that's going to lead to frustration and bad behaviour. We all know what causes that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hey folks :cap_cool:,

 

there are some realy interesting developements going on concerning toxic behaviour in Overwatch. Blizzard released an endorsement system that seems to work extremly well.
How does the endorsment work? Please look here: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/2/17527694/overwatch-endorsements-how-to-level-up-explainer
 

Basically it provides meaningful rewards for those, who behave positiv. Yes! No reporting for toxic people.

 

To prove the effectivness Jeff Kaplan released statistics here .

Spoiler

The % of Competitive Matches that Contain Abusive Chat is down:

26.4% in the Americas
16.4% in KR

The % of Daily Players being Abusive is down:

28.8% in the Americas
21.6% in KR

Personaly I do not play Overwatch, but maybe you can add a few things of your experience with this system. What do you think of adding a similar system in exchange for the actual pretty useless karma system in World of Warships?


It is well known positiv rewards work much better, if you want a change in some ones behaviour. I am a little suprised nobody came up with this until now. Lets hope Wargaming is doing their homework in these matters :fish_sleep:  :cap_wander_2:  

PS.: Kleiner Wink mit dem Zaunpfahl @MrConway  @Crysantos :fish_boom:

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On 28-4-2018 at 3:24 PM, morgoroth said:

HAHAHAHAHA ... bullcrap ... you can't change ppl behaviour just by being nice.

 

First WoWs is not LoL ... different play styles different speeds.

 

Second it won't change the mentality of majority of the players.

 

Nothing will change.

 

A good start would be for WG to determine what is really causing the "toxicity".

Thats easy: it's people getting frustrated by being forced to play with, and against players of different skill levels. I'm sometimes pulling my hair out while watching my team throw away a certain win.

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5 hours ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

Thats easy: it's people getting frustrated by being forced to play with, and against players of different skill levels. I'm sometimes pulling my hair out while watching my team throw away a certain win.

Go to PTS and try updated operations then you will see what "players" can throw against AI:Smile_teethhappy:

Better don't pull your hairs out ... after one evening you will be compeletly bald :P

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6 hours ago, Blechhaube said:

. Lets hope Wargaming is doing their homework in these matters :fish_sleep:  :cap_wander_2:  

 

What homework?

 

They can not teach you to have thicker skin...

 

Just to point out: banter is not harassment nor toxicity. As they say, dont go in the kitchen if you cant take the heat. Or in words you understand, stay off PvP games if you cant take a few jabs, simples.

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11 hours ago, Juanx said:

 

What homework?

 

They can not teach you to have thicker skin...

 

Just to point out: banter is not harassment nor toxicity. As they say, dont go in the kitchen if you cant take the heat. Or in words you understand, stay off PvP games if you cant take a few jabs, simples.

This is so annoying for me to bother with you. sigh. 
You just did not get the point.
You prejudged me before you even considered to check my profile or checking my stats.
There are enough people out there, who cannot distinguish the line between banter and harassment.

You should probably read with more care next time before you consider to answere.
 

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Just now, Blechhaube said:

This is so annoying for me to bother with you. sigh. 
You just did not get the point.
You prejudged me before you even considered to check my profile or checking my stats.
There are enough people out there, who cannot distinguish the line between banter and harassment.

You should probably read with more care next time before you consider to answere.
 

 

What does your profile has to do with the OP topic? Your stats have no bearing in this conversation, may we stick to the topic please?

You seem to be one of these people that cannot distinguish banter from harassment, and your posts are a clear sign.

 

So annoying, sigh... poor ignoramus.

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1 minute ago, Juanx said:

 

What does your profile has to do with the OP topic? Your stats have no bearing in this conversation, may we stick to the topic please?

You seem to be one of these people that cannot distinguish banter from harassment, and your posts are a clear sign.

 

So annoying, sigh... poor ignoramus.

You are an ignorant fool. Just go elsewhere, if you have nothing to add to the topic.

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18 hours ago, Blechhaube said:

To prove the effectivness Jeff Kaplan released statistics here .

 

Remember when WG allegedly polled the playerbase about map changes to prove that they were positively received?

Remember when they said the changes to the CV UI were a success when everyone cried out that they introduced so many bugs it's not even funny?

Remember when they lied to us about the GZ being in a final release state?

What's my point you ask?

The point is that those statistics are made by Blizzard and cannot be backed up by an independent source, as such they should be looked at with a healthy amount of skepticism.

 

I too would like to know what your profile and stats have to do with your inability to deal with trash talk btw.

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On 16/07/2018 at 6:06 PM, Blechhaube said:

Hey folks :cap_cool:,

 

there are some realy interesting developements going on concerning toxic behaviour in Overwatch. Blizzard released an endorsement system that seems to work extremly well.
How does the endorsment work? Please look here: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/2/17527694/overwatch-endorsements-how-to-level-up-explainer
 

Basically it provides meaningful rewards for those, who behave positiv. Yes! No reporting for toxic people.

 

To prove the effectivness Jeff Kaplan released statistics here .

  Hide contents

The % of Competitive Matches that Contain Abusive Chat is down:

26.4% in the Americas
16.4% in KR

The % of Daily Players being Abusive is down:

28.8% in the Americas
21.6% in KR

Personaly I do not play Overwatch, but maybe you can add a few things of your experience with this system. What do you think of adding a similar system in exchange for the actual pretty useless karma system in World of Warships?


It is well known positiv rewards work much better, if you want a change in some ones behaviour. I am a little suprised nobody came up with this until now. Lets hope Wargaming is doing their homework in these matters :fish_sleep:  :cap_wander_2:  

PS.: Kleiner Wink mit dem Zaunpfahl @MrConway  @Crysantos :fish_boom:

 

I really like the sound of it to be honest, although there would need to be quite a lot of work to make it happen.

 

I'll bring it up.

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On 18.7.2018 at 7:46 PM, MrConway said:

 

I really like the sound of it to be honest, although there would need to be quite a lot of work to make it happen.

 

I'll bring it up.

I count on you. :cap_book:

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Toxicity is in a large part a symptom of a larger problem, so to address that you need to address said problem.

 

How to reduce toxic behavior? First of all, give me a chance to even have fun in the game in periods like these. With the summer holidays started and all the kids logging in all the time, my teams are regularly populated by people with win rates in the low forties and average damage in the low 20's, sometimes even below 10k. Today the teams have been absolutely horrible so I decided to go farm my Atlanta captain xp in operations - hey, it's just bots, how bad could it be? Well, I'll tell you - 7 battles, 5 defeats. Five. Why? Because half the team dies to bots in the first 3 minutes so there's just not enough dpm to defend the base at the end. I'm first of the team consistently in these attempts, and normally, I won't act in a toxic way - I'm happy to communicate with my team, coordinate, crack a joke or two, and if sometimes we lose, I mean, it happens. But when I consistently get defeat after defeat because my teams keep getting populated by people who have absolutely no idea how to play and are quite frankly terrible, it starts to wear me out. So, after 5+ defeats in a row, I might not be in a good mood so if I see someone doing something really stupid that will throw the game, I may not be super nice about it. And this isn't my normal behavior, this is really the community triggering it.

 

So the way to fix it is stat based mm. I know, I know. Hear me out before you start. I'm not talking about stat based MM that WG constantly, and possibly on purpose, misunderstands us with and says "oh this will increase queue times". Look, I'm not asking for the matchmaker to wait until there's enough players in my stat range to form a team. What I am asking for is to simply spread the players evenly based on their stats. For example, if there are 4 destroyers in a queue, and 2 are terrible and 2 are decent, how about you split them evenly and don't give me both of the terrible ones, so they can be dead in the first 2 minutes? It's this uneven matchmaking that leads to the current meta of most matches being complete roflstomps - you're either on the team that stomps or on the team that is getting stomped; one being uninteresting, the other infuriating. So, split players more evenly based on stats. I'm ok with losing if my team knew what they were doing for the most part, but we simply got outplayed. But I'm not ok with getting consistently stomped because my dd's live shorter than some subatomic particles produced at CERN, my hydro and radar equipped cruisers die early game to the very dd's they're supposed to counter, my battleships are either exploring map edges or yoloing into their whole fleet, dying, then raging at the team for not providing the sort of magical support that would need to happen to keep them alive during these yolo rushes. It's pretty clear a lot of these people never even look at the mini map, they just sail towards the first red target they see without any thought put into it. If half my team has players like that and the enemy is full of rank 1, high cb league clan guys as it frequently happens, it gets infuriating fast.

 

The other type of toxicity, people who are toxic by nature regardless of the team they're in (like excessive pingers, function command spammers, people who insult their team mates even when they're doing fine and the team is winning) just need to be banned. But the obvious trolls that are just toxic for the lulz are less frequent than just normal, ok people being completely worn out by defeat after defeat because their teams are terrible so they're not being super nice in chat. So, fix the matchmaking, and you'll fix toxicity by a large margin.

 

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16 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

With the summer holidays started and all the kids logging in all the time, my teams are regularly populated by people with win rates in the low forties and average damage in the low 20's, sometimes even below 10k. Today the teams have been absolutely horrible so I decided to go farm my Atlanta captain xp in operations - hey, it's just bots, how bad could it be? Well, I'll tell you - 7 battles, 5 defeats. Five. Why? Because half the team dies to bots in the first 3 minutes so there's just not enough dpm to defend the base at the end. I'm first of the team consistently in these attempts, and normally, I won't act in a toxic way - I'm happy to communicate with my team, coordinate, crack a joke or two, and if sometimes we lose, I mean, it happens. But when I consistently get defeat after defeat because my teams keep getting populated by people who have absolutely no idea how to play and are quite frankly terrible, it starts to wear me out. So, after 5+ defeats in a row, I might not be in a good mood so if I see someone doing something really stupid that will throw the game, I may not be super nice about it. And this isn't my normal behavior, this is really the community triggering it.

What should I say? We sit in the same boat here. I make pretty much the same experience as you do. It is highly frustrating. If the game teached me a lesson for life, than how to deal with random people and their "challenges".
Since random battle mode is the fundamental game mode, it certainly needs more attention. If leagues of various skills exist in so many kinds of team based sports, why not installing such a system to the matchmaker? I totally agree with that. It certainly would decrease some toxic behaviour. But to be fair, this means a lot of work and ressources to be implemented. On the contrary what raises better gameplay is totally worth the effort.
I often hear in random battle with random people happens all kinds of crap, because it is random. Deal with it!  I think this is a very lame excuse for the state of the current game. I mean it is supposed to be fun to play this game. Do not take me wrong it certainly is fun to play. I mean WoWs is my most played game over the past 3 years. But does it have to be so frustrating at the same time? Wargaming certainly has to pay far more attention to the clash of random people in their games. You must not unleash the wrath of randomness to a bunch of people without certain rules how to deal with each other. This is the blind eye of Wargaming. Fair behaviour needs to be rewarded. Maybe I release less frustration of my own into the chat. :cap_rambo::Smile-_tongue:

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1 hour ago, Mandalorianer said:

You can't just forbid people to be assholes.

The thing is people decide to be an as.shole. This also means people can chose otherwise.

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Want to reduce toxicity in the game...

 

Remove edited

 

Fire the employees that thought Graf Zepplin was a good idea. You would have thought with numbers in their games going down so fast, that they would improve things not invent new ways to piss off their CUSTOMERS.
this post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks 

Edited by Hedko1
No "cancer comparisons"

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11 minutes ago, Blechhaube said:

The thing is people decide to be an as.shole. This also means people can chose otherwise.

 

Thanks for proving my point. :cap_like:

 

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Its important to remember: being a donkey is not a crime, same as being ignorant is not a crime, nor toxic.

No one owes anyone any particular respect, respect is earned, not deserved just because. That this new millenial generation thinks it is so is just fine, luckily real world still cares more for what works.


Your frustration issues probably stem elsewhere, Im going to guess the lack of coping hability, need to learn to deal with stuff. Accept people are not nice, will save you a world of dissapointment.

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19 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

Thanks for proving my point. :cap_like:

 

Sorry. I didn't in particular. The question is, what can you do people decide to behave? As game developer you can use certain tools to reward certain behaviour. On the contrary you always have the choice to implement tool to repress extrem negativ behaviour by banning for example. If some one decides not to respect the basics of civilized conversation you simply abondon him from society. Whoever wants to be part of a particular society has to accept basic rules of it. So there is the yes. You can force people not to be an [edited].

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1 minute ago, Juanx said:

Its important to remember: being a donkey is not a crime, same as being ignorant is not a crime, nor toxic.

No one owes anyone any particular respect, respect is earned, not deserved just because. That this new millenial generation thinks it is so is just fine, luckily real world still cares more for what works.


Your frustration issues probably stem elsewhere, Im going to guess the lack of coping hability, need to learn to deal with stuff. Accept people are not nice, will save you a world of dissapointment.

 

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1 minute ago, Blechhaube said:

The question is, what can you do people decide to behave. As game developer you can use certain tools to reward certain behaviour. On the contrary you always have the choice to implement tool to repress extrem negativ behaviour by banning for example. If some one decides not to respect the basics of civilized conversation you simply abondon him from society. Whoever wants to be part of a particular society has to accept basic rules of it. So there is the yes. You can force people not to be an [edited].

 

Oh boy...

Social engeneering much?

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Societies work with rules. Better start getting used to it early. In this topic is no space for your attempt to start a debate on your political views. Please do us all a favor and spare us with this nonsense.

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