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Found 17 results

  1. Finally! My latest fork on this scheme. Proposal for full European tech tree! There were many unique destroyers in Europe. It would be nice to see them in large numbers in the game. Having only 4 nations, mostly with Swedish destroyers in the game, is not the solution. Also, it is not a solution to put 10 British and 10 American destroyers that those nations used. Only the British and American branches would be copied as was done with the Pan-Asian Tech Tree. We would have too many Jervis, Lightning, Fletcher and Gearing destroyers (The exceptions are the Greek destroyers T9 and T10, as well as the Polish premium destroyer T8). That is not the solution. The goal is to bring many different ships into the game, and European nations had unique destroyers, such as the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the Netherlands and Poland (and Sweden, which has already been inserted). I had a lot of destroyers, a lot especially for tiers 4-6, but this is compromise solution. I compared Burza with Bourrasque, so it's in that place. But, in my opinion, the proposal is really good.
  2. Hello captain, because this forum is in English this recruitment text is also. Below you wil find the Dutch translation (although almost everyone speaks English now a days ) Royal Netherlands Digital Army (RNLDA) is a Dutch clan and we are looking for Dutch players. We are looking for al sorts of players to strengthen our ranks. We accept new players as wel, because we remember how it felt when we started playing. Maybe you are somewhat insecure, don't have high tiers yet, looking for tips on gameplay and ship tactics. Or you are that seasoned player who wants to be in an active clan, playing foor the win, but also want to share your knowledge en experience with the newbies. No matter if you like to be bold and brawling, like to hunt and scout in a Destroyer (DD), you want it a bit slow but hitting hard with big guns from a Battleship (BB), or like to attack long distance from an Aircraftcarrier (CV). As long you are willing to play in a team, as a team and win with the team, you are welcome. And off course we want players who love Cruisers (CA) also We use Discord for voice communication (mandatory in teamplay) Interested? send me a message in game for an invite or send a application. Hope to see you soon in our fleet. McHook Dutch text: Hoi, waarschijnlijk heb je bovenstaande wel begrepen, maar nog even kort in het Nederlands. We zijn op zoek naar Nederlandse spelers die ons ream willen komen versterken. Het maakt niet uit welk type schip je voorkeur heeft of dat je net begint of zeer ervaren bent. Iedereen is welkom zolang je een teamspeler bent. we gebruiken Discord als spraakserver, dit is gezellig, maar ook zeker noodzakelijk om goed als team samen te kunnen spelen. Stuur me ingame een bericht voor een uitnodiging voor de clan of stuur meteen een verzoek. ik hoop je snel te zien in onze vloot. McHook
  3. EwoudK

    Dutch tech tree

    Hello everybody, I have put together a Dutch tech tree suitable for world of warships. I have provided a link where you can view the document in which I made my tech tree. I haven't just listed the ships. I have given each ship a page describing their history, characteristics and possible game play. I would really like to share it with you and hear your feedback. Here is the link where you can view my tech tree. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0d0dfx6vks1lrpz/Dutch tech tree 3.1.docx?dl=0 If you liked it, feel free to share it with someone who thinks a Dutch tech tree is impossible.
  4. Wij zijn op zoek naar leden die nederlandstalig zijn. Onze clan bestaat 3 jaar. Je kan ons vinden op ons forum http://bnnf-clan.actieforum.com/ of in game(PC) BNNF. We zijn een leuke groep die graag af en toe samen speelt, zonder verplichtingen. Via onze forum delen we tips trics, of gewoon een fijne screenshot :) Dagelijks hebben we wel iemand die speelt, we zijn een kleine maar fijne groep die respect voor elkaar heeft en het belangrijkste: fun heeft! Heb je een headset? Je speelt graag WoW? Zend gerust een request! MrLyssens
  5. Die German Ghost Division sucht in WoWS Aktive Kameraden um gemeinsam die Ozeane unsicher zu machen! Uns liegt viel daran zusammen zu fahren und den Gegner in Angst und Schrecken zu versetzen !!WIR suchen Kameraden für Spaß am Spiel!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WIR Rekrutieren wieder! = Was Wir Euch bieten = - Eigener Discord Server - Kameradschaft - Tipps & Tricks = Was Wir verlangen = - Ein T-8er Schiff (nur für Die Leute Pflicht, die bei CW mit fahren möchten) - Aktivität, auch auf Discord (Pflicht) - Du bist 16 Jahre + - Du Besitzt ein Funktionstüchtiges Headset - Vernünftiger und respektvoller Umgang mit den Kameraden - Teamplay & Kommunikation Bei Interesse melde Dich noch heute bei der German Ghost Division per InGame Nachricht bei folgende Ansprechpartnern... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Führungsebene GER_GrimReaper Lord_von_Hafen pepe2005 PrivatPaula ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WIR suchen Dich!
  6. Tuccy

    Community Event - Den Helder

    Join us at the Dutch Navy Museum Enjoy free entrance all day, as well as a boatload of activities! In honor of the incoming release of our first Dutch ship – IX Friesland– on September 14th we will be at the Dutch Navy Museum (Marinemuseum) in Den Helder, Netherlands, for a day of World of Warships-related fun! Event starts: Sat. 14 Sep. 10:00 CEST (UTC+2) Event ends: Sat. 14 Sep. 17:00 CEST (UTC+2) For more details head to our Portal article or the Facebook Event!
  7. Henning_15

    Netherlands WW2 Cruiser De Ruyter

    HNLMS De Ruyter (Dutch: Hr.Ms. De Ruyter) was a unique light cruiser of the Royal Netherlands Navy. She was originally designed as a 5,000-long-ton (5,100 t) ship with a lighter armament due to financial problems and the pacifist movement. Later in the design stage, an extra gun turret was added and the armor was improved. She was the seventh ship of the Dutch Navy to be named after Admiral Michiel Adriaenszoon de Ruyter. De Ruyter was laid down on 16 September 1933 at the Wilton-Fijenoord dockyard in Schiedam and commissioned on 3 October 1936, commanded by Captain A. C. van der Sande Lacoste. She was sunk in the Battle of the Java Sea in 1942. De Ruyter was designed during the Great Depression, which, in addition to being a period of economical depression, was also a period in which pacifism was widespread in the Netherlands. For these reasons, the design was officially called a flottieljeleider (flotillaleader) instead of a cruiser, and every effort was made to cut costs. Its function was to aid the two existing cruisers of the Java class in the defence of the Dutch East Indies; the idea was that with three cruisers, there would always be two cruisers available, even if one cruiser had to be repaired. However, due to the cost-cutting policy that went into her design, De Ruyter was not quite up to her task. Her main battery (7 × 150 mm guns) was underpowered in comparison to other light cruisers of the time (for example the British Leander class), and the class had inadequate armour as well and lacked long range anti-aircraft guns. However, her fire control system was excellent. Tier V Premium Cruiser De Ruyter __________________________________________ SURVIVABILITY Hitpoints: 21 200 __________________________________________ ARTILLERY 7 × 150 mm (5.9 in) guns (3x2; 1x1) Reload TIme: 12.0 s 180 Turn Time: 15.0 s Maximum Dispersion: 126 m Maximum HE Shell Damage: 2300 Chance Of HE Shells Causing A Fire On Target: 11.0 % HE Shell Armor Penetration Capacity: 24 mm Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3300 Main Battery Firing Range: 14.0 km ___________________________________________ AA DEFENCE 10 × 40 mm (1.57 in) Boforsanti-aircraft guns (5x2) 8 × 12.7 mm (0.5 in) Browningmachine guns AA Reinforcement: 25 % Sector Reinforcement time: 10 s Sector Reinforcement shift time: 10 s ____________________________________________ MANEUVERABILITY Maximum Speed: 32 knots Turning Circle Radius: 680 m Rudder Shift Time: 10.4 s ____________________________________________ CONCEALMENT Detectability Range By Sea: 12.5 km Detectability Range By Air: 5.4 km Assured Detectability Range: 2.0 km Detectability After Firing Main Guns in Smoke: 6.5 km ____________________________________________ ARMOR LAYOUT Deck: 5 cm Armor Belt: 3 cm Turrets: 3 cm ____________________________________________ AMMUNITION & CONSUMABLES Damage Control Party Action Time 5s Reload Time For I 85.5 s Reload Time For II 57 s Repair Party HP Per Second +143 Action Time 28 s Reload Time For I 114 s Reload Time For II 76 s Hydroacoustic Search Detection Of Torpedoes 3 km Detection Of Ships 4 km Action Time 100 s Reload Time For I 171 s Relaod Time For II 114 s Fighter Or Spotting Aricraft Or Smoke Smoke Action Time 15 s Smoke Screen Dispersion Time 99 s Action Radius 0.72 km Relaod Time For I 228 s Relaod Time For II 152 s Fighter Action Time 60 s Number Of Aircraft 2 Action Radius 3 km Relaod Time For I 128.25 s Relaod Time For II 85.5 s Spotting Aircraft Main Battery Firing Range +20 % Action Time 100 s Relaod Time For I 342 s Relaod Time For II 228 s ____________________________________________
  8. When I was searching for some warships-related information, I found a topic on the NA server by user Lert. I was immediately enthousiast about that idea. Since that link likely won't work unless you have an NA account as well (like I do), Lert gave me permission to place his message here for us on the EU server. All credits go to him, and I copied this straight from his message on NA (except for a typo in the title that I corrected): While I've talked about the Admiralen class before, that was always in general terms. I believe that to enhance the chance of someone at WG taking notice of a premium ship request, I should make it as specific as possible and narrow it down to a specific ship, give a synopsis about its service history, include as much information as possible and even give my view on how to implement her, with what features, at what tier and describe what play style she would offer. No small task. So without further ado, let's get down to the nitty gritty of it, and present HNLMS Witte de With: HNLMS Witte de With as commissioned. Witte de With was an Admiralen class destroyer which was laid down on 28 May 1927 at the shipyard of Fijenoord in Rotterdam and launched on 11 September 1928. The ship was commissioned on 20 February 1930. She is named after Witte Corneliszoon de With, a famous Dutch naval officer of the 17th century. Witte Corneliszoon de With, by Abraham van Westerveld She was typical Admiralen class of the second group, measuring just under 100m long and displacing 1666 metric tons at full load. She had three Yarrow type boilers and two Parson geared turbines driving two shafts. Her drive train produced 31000 HP which pushed her along at a modest 36 knots. There is little written down about Witte de With's service career, but what's there paints a picture as tragic as that of her seven sister ships of the Admiralenclass. There is especially little written down in public, easy-to-find internet archives about her first ten years of service, before WWII broke out. It's written that she visited Saigon along with her sistership van Galen and the Java class cruiser Sumatra, in 1935. It's said that Witte de With was present at the fleet days in Sumatra in 1936, along with sisterships van Galen and Piet Hein, and the Java class cruisers Java and Sumatra. Later that year both Java class cruisers and the Admiralen class destoyers Witte de With, Evertsen and Piet Hein made a fleet visit to Singapore, stopping along the way in the South China Sea for an exercise. So for the first ten years of her service Witte de With performed PR duties and exercises, projecting force and showing the Dutch navy's investment in various Pacific sea locations. But then war broke out. Some time during 1940 or 1941, Witte de With along with her sister van Ghent were equipped with ASDIC systems. But it was during the ill-fated battle of Java Sea that Witte de With took her modest place in history. It was during this engagement that HMS Exeter was crippled by Japanese fire, when a shell from Haguro exploded in her boiler room, knocking six of her boilers off-line. Witte de With was ordered to escort the stricken Exeter back to safety in Surabaya port. Several days later, while at sea, Witte de With's aging and outdated AA suite became her doom when she was attacked and bombed by Japanese aircraft, on may 1st, 1942. The most significant hit was a bomb to the forecastle, which crippled the ship. Afloat but crippled, and unable to affect open water repairs, the captain ordered her scuttled the next day. Close-up of the bridge and mid-section, drawing quite a crowd. So what would she look like in game? For the purposes of this thread, I'm going hog-wild with stats and consumables, though all within historical reason and precedence. I will explain why further down in this post. Tonnage: At 1666 metric tons full load, we get 10900 hitpoints. This puts her at around tier 4 or 5. However, I want to place her at tier 6, which means she'll have the lowest hitpoints in tier, even behind lightweights like Hatsuharu which boasts 11700 hitpoints fully upgraded. Armor: The 'armor' on this destroyer served purely to keep the crew inside while under maneuvers. Moving on ... Main armament: 4x single Siderius No. 4 120mm guns. These were license built copies of a Bofors design and fired a 24 kg HE shell at 900 mps. This is an excellent muzzle velocity and would give it very good ballistics over range and short time-to-target, for a 120mm gun. I believe these guns to be near as indistinguishable from the guns on the in-game Błyskawica, as they are both similar vintage Bofors designed 120mm guns with a 50 caliber barrel length, 900 mps muzzle velocity and a ~10 RPM ROF. Taking Błyskawica's numbers, we get to a HE shell with 1700 dmg and an 8.5% fire chance, and an AP shell with 2200 damage. If they really are as similar to Błyskawica's guns as I imagine them to be, they would likely inherit the Polish ship's sluggish 18s turn rate. Although she would outgun Japanese destroyers at tier, do not mistake Witte de With for a gunboat destroyer. With only four barrels and a 6 second reload, her gun battery is a back-up weapon system at best, suitable for harassing battleships at long range or finishing off wounded destroyers, at most. Their muzzle velocity would give them the ballistics to accurately place warheads on foreheads at range, but she'll never have sufficient shells in the air to seriously worry anyone who isn't a Japanese destroyer of equal tier or lower. Secondary / Auxilliary armament: 1x Siderius No. 7 75mm 4x 40mm Pom Pom 4x .50 Browning M2 When commissioned this was sufficient. However, at the mid stages of WWII, it no longer was. It's even questionable whether WG would make the 75mm a secondary or not, but even if they did, it wouldn't really be any DPS worth mentioning from a single gun with 8 RPM and a 6.5kg shell. The pom-poms would give about 22 dps at 2 km and the .50s about 15 dps at 1.2km. Celebratory fireworks to hail the arrival of angry airplanes. Torpedo armament: 2x triple 533mm tube setup. With six centerline tubes divided in two launchers of three barrels apiece, Witte de With is not a very powerful torpedo boat. To give her some teeth I say she would carry Błyskawica's British Mk 10*, which gives us a torpedo with 8km range, 57 knots speed and 14400 damage. This is a very modest torpedo for a very modest broadside alpha strike. Having the same number of tubes it's very likely these will reload in about the same 70s as on Błyskawica's torpedo setup. Although her torpedo battery is relatively more potent than her gun battery suite, I'd hesitate to call Witte de With a torpedo boat. Speed: As mentioned, 36 knots. This is on the low end for tier 6, beating only some of the Japanese destroyers like Fubuki and Shinonome. Concealment: This is, for tier 6, a tiny ship. She is roughly the same dimensions and displacement as a Minekaze class destroyer, and would likely carry very similar dispersion. Minekaze boasts a 6.2km surface detection range and 3.1km by-air detection range. With Witte de With being suggested a premium and thus coming with a premium camouflage standard, her concealment would likely be in the 6.0km range by surface, before captain skills are applied. "So, wait, no hitpoints, weak gun battery, very mediocre torpedo battery, why is this thing tier 6? Sounds like the perfect tier 5, to me!" Patience, patience. Yes, the ship based purely on its own merits is a shoe-in for tier 5. That's why in my tech tree proposal, that's where I would put her. However, remember where I mentioned that Witte de With and van Ghentreceived ASDIC some time during the early years of the war? This gives us historical precedence for a Hydroacoustic Search consumable. Plus, there's another neat trick the Admiralen could do .... That's right. A destroyer with a spotter plane, carried aft on a structure above the rearward torpedo mount. Consumables: We'll start by giving her the standard destroyer suite of consumables, being DCP, Smoke and Speed Boost, all standard versions. Since we're talking about Witte de With, we'll also give her a Spotter Plane with a single charge base, and Hydroacoustic Search with one or two charges base. This would give Witte de With the flexibility and vision control to challenge cap circles and provide forward scouting in a way no other destroyer in this game can. "Wait, back up a bit. Admiralen had a catapult?" Well, no. No catapult. The sea plane was carried on a structure above the rearward torpedo mount, and lowered in the water by a crane so it could take off. However, WG already has planes that historically landed in the water and were recovered by crane just flying into the ship and appearing back on the catapult, so it'd be a very small step in terms of mechanics and programming to have the plane take off from the mount as well. "So, why Witte de With in particular? There are other Admiralen that have as historical and tragic a story." Yes, there are. However, those are better suited for the tech tree. Since consumables like a spotter plane and hydro change the play style, I wanted to take her out of the tech tree and make her a premium. Witte de With and van Ghent were the only ones who received ASDIC, so they're the only two candidates for this up-tiered Admiralen premium, and I like the story of Witte de With more than that of van Ghent. Plus, she has ties with HMS Exeter, and I think it very likely that we'll see the latter in game at some point as well. "Alright. So what play style would Witte de With offer?" She'd be very stealthy with ok-ish mobility, so she'd be a decent cap contester. This is only strengthened by the presence of a spotter plane and hydro, allowing her to see for her team and light up targets from smoke, as well as dodge torpedoes heading towards her smoke screen. She'd be a high skill floor and high skill ceiling ship with decent torpedoes and usable gun battery backup to help fight her out of tight spots, but her primary role would be scouting and cap contesting. Her small size likely makes her very agile, too. She'd require a decent captain skill point investment to get the most out of her, with Super Intendent a must, as well as Expert Marksman, Concealment Expert and Advanced and Basic Firing Training to taste. She'd also benefit from Torpedo Armament Expertise to drop her already swift torpedo reload even further. Finally, Vigilance might be a worthwhile investment as with her concealment, Witte de With should always be up front. So, in short: Pros: - Historical ship, fought in in WWII - Ties with the RN, escorted HMS Exeter - Unique playstyle with spotter plane and / or hydro Cons: - Limited appeal (NL nation not in game) - Mid tier - Requires entirely new model researched and build "Hmmm. Limited appeal, NL nation not in game. That sounds like a problem." Although she has limited appeal on the NA server as a Dutch ship, a first Dutch premium would herald and generate interest for a full tech tree. There aren't many nations left not yet in the game that WG would implement as full nations with their own tree, and the Dutch have the potential for the potential for a DD tree line supplemented with only a few design proposals and a cruiser tech tree with a reasonable mix of historical vessels and design proposals. Having that first premium offer some new and unique gameplay will further help sell the ship and generate interest. "Wait, potential for a full Dutch DD and cruiser tech tree? What?" Yes. Even if WG would not consider adding a full Dutch tree (though I don't see why not, they're running out of other nations not-yet-in-the-game that could conceivably offer a full tree) there is still space for Witte de With in this game as precursor to a pan-european tree, which I hope would have a significant Dutch presence. She could occupy the Tier 6 destroyer premium spot, while Błyskawica sits at tier 7. "Wait, I thought you didn't like balancing ships by gimmick?" You're right, I don't. Normally. However, if a Dutch DD tree is going to be implemented, Admiralen is a shoe-in for tier 4 / 5 already and likely not get the spotter plane. I think it would be a complete waste of potential if no version of her was implemented with spotter plane, and the only way to realistically solve that is to implement a variant with. However, since this puts her above T5 category in terms of potential / performance, T6 premium is the only realistic place she could go. "Ok, but what would she cost, if implemented at T6?" Likely a very similar price to any of the existing premium T6 destroyers. Right now Monaghan is in the store for $25-ish. I'd wager Witte de With would cost somewhere around that too. Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more, but no more than $30 for the base ship and a slot, without bundle. "What style of camouflage might she wear?" There are two options, really. First is flat gray with large, white 'WW' on the sides: Second is a blocky, light-and-dark-gray pattern: This picture though is likely not Witte de With. It's probably Evertsen, a sistership. however, it shows precedence for an Admiralen in camouflage, and thus I would consider it an option for Witte de With in this game. Personally I'm partial to the clean, light gray scheme with the large 'WW' on the sides, but that's just me. "How do you pronounce the name, Witte de With?" 'Wittuh duh Wit'. The 'h' is not considered, so the 'With' part is pronounced like 'wit' with a hard T. There is a slight emphasis on the first syllable of the name, and all syllables are spoken at reasonably quick pace, none linger. Thank you for taking the time to read this proposal, and please support a dutch inclusion into WoWS. We have Haida, there is a pan-American nation upcoming with Nueve de Julio, so it's about time the Dutch were considered as well. Thanks to @LittleWhiteMouse for helping me put this proposal together, and for coming up with a possible national flavor for Dutch destroyers: Personally, I really like this idea. It's new, it's fun to play, it's a national flavor and it actually has a small basis in history. Admiral Michiel de Ruyter had a whole fleet of shallow-draft ships built which gave them exceptional maneuverability and the ability to go where his adversaries couldn't, allowing him to outmaneuver his opponents and win decisive battles that way. Sources used: @Pigeon_of_War ------------------------------------------------- End quote. Again, not my idea, but an idea by NA user Lert, who gave me permission to post it here. I'm already enthousiast for this idea, and I'm curious what you think about it.
  9. EwoudK

    Dutch tech tree

    Hello everybody, I have been researching Dutch warships and ship-designs in an attempt to construct a Dutch tech tree viable for World of Warships. I'm quite confident about my results so I would like to share it with you and ask you for your opinion and feedback. I haven't just listed the ships. I have given each ship a page describing their history, characteristics and possible game play. Now you don't just see what ship I picked at what tier but also why. The following link should take you to the document in which i made my tech tree: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3q16orzpz8e3l2/Dutch tech tree 2.01.pdf?dl=0 If you have any questions, please ask me, and feel free to share this with others. This is the old Dutch tech tree I made, I have made an improved tech tree here: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/100513-dutch-tech-tree/
  10. A while ago I copied a proposal by Lert on the NA forum. He made a proposal for HNLMS De Ruyter as well, arguably the most (in)famous Dutch ship that would be suitable for the timeframe of WoWs, and so I copied it here as well. So again, credits go to Lert since he did all the work and I merely copy-paste it to EU. ------------------------- Ok, some real talk. Although I would love for an actual Dutch nation to be in the game, chances of that happening are slim. Especially a cruiser line, which we just plain can't fill without resorting to a lot of theoretical designs, never-builts. This limits us to either a cameo or two in a pan-european cruiser tree, or a few premium ships. In this thread I would hope to present my argument for inclusion of the famous unique light cruiser de Ruyter as tier 4 premium, though with minimal tweaks she could just as easily work as a tier 4 in a pan-european cruiser tree. So without further ado, HNLMS de Ruyter In the 1930s the Dutch government saw the need for a new cruiser to supplement the aging Java class cruisers operating around Indonesia, which was at the time a Dutch colony. The theory was that with three cruisers operating in the area, we could guarantee two at sea, even if a third was in for repairs or service. However, the Netherlands was suffering a great depression at the time, and a very strong pacifistic movement further complicated matters. As such, one heavily restricted 'flotilla leader' was planned and finally authorized. The designers were held back by lack of funds as well as political pressure, and the resulting ship was under-powered, under-armored and under-gunned, due to extreme cost-saving measures and pacifist pressure. She was laid down at Wilton-Fijenoord dockyards at Schiedam on September 16th, 1933 and commissioned on October 3rd, 1936. She served the war in the Netherlands East Indies, now Indonesia, in fruitless attempts to thwart Japanese invasion. Invariably finding herself outmatched, she still fought for what she was worth, showing Dutch fighting spirit. She fought in the battle of the Bali Sea, where an air attack damaged her, but she survived. She also survived the battle of Badung Strait, and entered the battle of Java Sea as flagship, under Admiral Karel Doorman's command. It was here she found her demise. She was hit by a Long Lance torpedo from the Myoukou class Hagurowhich caused a fire and a flooding, and shorted out her electrical systems. Due to the lack of electricity, damage control efforts were severely hampered and the crew was unable to stop the fire and the flooding. De Ruyter sank the next morning at 2:30 AM, with the loss of 345 men out of 435 crew, including Admiral Doorman and Captain Lacomblé. Luitenant ter Zee Eugène Lacomblé. Schout-bij-Nacht Karel Willem Frederik Marie Doorman. Her wreck was discovered in December 2002 and declared a war grave. However, in 2016 it was discovered that illegal salvage had led to the complete disappearance of de Ruyter, along with the wreck of the light cruiser Java and much of the Admiralen class destroyer Kortenaer. But how would she work in game? Tonnage: 7822 ton full load. This would give us 24400 hit points. This puts us slightly ahead of Phoenix, with her 24000 hit points and slightly behind Svietlana with her 24600 hit points. Nothing remarkable here, just a tier appropriate chunk of hit points. Armor: De Ruyter would be very soft indeed. Boasting only a 50mm armor belt with 13mm weather deck, 6mm splinter deck and 30mm citadel deck, with a 30mm bulkhead between the outer hull and the machinery space. The turrets also had 30mm of armor. This armor profile wouldn't stop anything substantial, and with an above water citadel she'd be very prone to instant deletions from battleships, cruisers and defecating seagulls. Main armament: De Ruyter saying 'hello'. 7x 150mm /50 Mk 9 & 10. These are Bofors designed guns built under license at Wilton-Fijenoord. The ship carried seven of these guns in four turrets, two twins superfiring aft and a single superfiring a twin, afore. Single mount superfiring a twin. These guns aren't in the game yet but we have most of the data about their performance, and what we don't have we can estimate by looking at similar mounts on ships that are in the game. To start with these were fairly slow firing guns, with a cited rate of fire of between 5 and 6 rounds per minute. If we go by best case scenario we get a 10 second reload cycle per barrel. They fired a 46kg projectile at 900 meters per second. Unfortunately I don't have any data on the bursting charge carried by these shells, but if we look at very similar guns firing very similar weight shells, like those on Phoenix, we can make an educated guess about what damage and fire chance these shells would very likely get. I would give de Ruyter the following numbers: 10s reload 30s traverse time 900 mps muzzle velocity 2200 HE dmg, 12% fire chance 3100 AP dmg 16.6k range 149m dispersion This gives us a broadside DPM of 130k with AP, compared to 132.8k on Phoenix. A bit lower, but still competitive. But will 130k DPM be enough? Phoenix is faster, better armored (yes, really) and as we will discuss later, more stealthy too. Plus, she has torpedoes. In fact, most if not all of the tier 4 cruisers have torpedoes, and competitive DPM. Except de Ruyter, which does not have torpedoes. So, no, I don't think 130k DPM with nothing else going for it will be sufficient. But how to buff de Ruyter's damage output without straying from historical gun performance? One option would be to buff her reload. I'm not a fan of this. I'd like to stick to the historical numbers as much as I can. Another option would be to buff her shells. Maybe inflated AP damage, like the Germans? Hmmm. Maybe. Or what about enhanced AP dynamics, like the British? If we look at the Navweaps page for these guns, it states that "Surviving ships were supplied with British-built munitions during World War II". Maybe we're on to something here. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say that if the ship used British ammunition, though 150mm instead of Royal Navy 152mm, it would still come from the same factories and design philosophy, to give de Ruyter's AP shells the improved ricochet angles and shorter fuse time of British cruiser AP. 5ms fuse time (compared to 33ms on normal cruiser AP) 60 ~ 75 degree ricochet angles before normalization (compared to 45 ~ 60 on normal cruiser AP) This I think would make her unremarkable DPM easier to apply, while still giving her a fall back shell with normal performing HE. What de Ruyter lacks in armor, speed or concealment she makes up for in ease-of-use of her main guns. Auxiliary armament: 10x 40mm Bofors Carrying 5 dual Bofors mounts, de Ruyter sports a very impressive AA suite for her tier at 117 dpm at 3.5km. Of course this AA suite is mostly useful for self defense and though it leaves room for buffing with captain skills, this would require a fairly hefty investment of captain points. Another problem is that all five dual Bofors nests are clumped together, making them vulnerable to a single HE impact. Maneuverability: Top speed: 32 knots. Not bad for a tier 4 cruiser, towards the faster side, but definitely nothing impressive either. The other cruisers at this tier are all close to this speed as well, except for outliers like Karlsruhe which manages only 27.5 knots. As for her agility, she's a fairly standard light cruiser, comparable in size to the others. As such I would give her middling agility as well. Let's say a 610 meter turning radius with base 6.1 second rudder shift. Concealment: De Ruyter has a very tall and prominent mast, which is both a boon and a hindrance. It helps give her very good gun range for her tier, but also makes her very visible. For concealment I would give her: 15.4km by sea 8km by air Consumables: Standard T4 cruiser. Damage Control Party, Hydro Acoustic Search. For added flavor we'll add Defensive Fire. Finally, de Ruyter carried provisions for a scout plane, so we'll give her one of those as well. No option for a fighter; between five Bofors nests and DFAA she doesn't need the additional AA DPS. Upgrade slots: Standard Tier 4, two slots, up to the 250k credit option. Play style: She wants to stay at the rear, where her bad concealment and worse armor are less of an issue. Modern fire control and a tall mast give her the range to reach out and touch someone. A potent AA suite, the DFAA consumable and Hydro give her the tools to function as fleet escort and support ship, and the combination of HE for at range and enhanced AP for close by helps her to damage at any range. She'll play like a the love child of Phoenix and Danae, being a squishy support cruiser with tools to help her do her job for the team. It's only her lack of torpedoes and mediocre ballistics that makes her stand out from the pack, but the enhanced AP helps off-set those drawbacks. Elephant in the room: I know many people want her at T5, but she simply doesn't have the legs, armor or DPM to be competitive at that high a tier. Omaha for example is faster, more heavily armored (yes, really), has more barrels to a broadside, faster reload and torpedoes. In fact, I was appalled to do the numbers on de Ruyter's guns and realized that, lacking torpedoes, I had to do something to enhance her gunnery to make her competitive at tier 4. Enhanced British AP is my choice, based purely on a throwaway line on the navweaps page about her weapons. De Ruyter under construction So, in short: Pros: Historical pedigree Powerful AA suite Plane Lots of design blueprints available (see gahetna link in sources) uhm ... Fast ... ish? Cons: AA is all mid range Bofors nests all clustered together Softer than a wet newspaper Uninspiring design, underpowered for her vintage Low tier (Limited public interest, low return on investment for modeling a whole new ship) Dutch nation not in game / limited captain training appeal What would she cost, if implemented at T4? $13 USD, for the ship and the slot. What camouflage would she wear? Best I can find out, this is what she was wearing when she was sunk: The camouflage would have the normal T4 premium camouflage bonuses: -3% detectability by sea +4% dispersion of incoming shells -10% cost of post-battle service +50% to XP At the end of this thread, de Ruyter waves goodbye as she sails away. In closing: Though I think it very likely that we'll eventually see her in the game, I'd rather they pick any other of a large selection of Dutch ships. While I fully acknowledge de Ruyter's place in history, she's just not a very interesting ship to me, design wise. A squishy, highly visible light cruiser with middling DPM, seen it before. Plus, I think she looks a bit clumsy with that straight bow and gigantic, prominent tower. That said, I won't complain if / when we do get her and I'd be first in line to buy her. I want to thank @LittleWhiteMouse for helping me nail down some of the intricacies of this proposal, @snowyskies for his help in finding detailed plans, and @fr05ty for his help with formulas and crunching numbers. ..... Odd, their @ mentions don't want to work for some reason. Sources used: @Pigeon_of_War ------------------------- End quote. Again, not my idea, but an idea by NA user Lert, who gave me permission to post it here. Like with the Witte de With proposal I'm all in for this idea. This might be a less unique ship compared to the destroyer, but she might be easier to balance. On top of that, she's a well-known ship that was built in real life ánd saw action, and that is something that can't be said from a lot of recent additions to the game.
  11. It was only a matter of time before Lert would write an article about one of the two Dutch cruisers that fought and were lost in the Battle of the Java Sea. Again all credits go to him, I merely copy-paste it with his permission to the EU forum. ------------------------- With the recent announcement of a pan-european nation in the game, I thought it time to introduce another candidate for inclusion. This time, the Java class of Light cruisers. Java herself, in 1921 In the early 1910s, the Dutch navy recognized a need to construct several new, up to date, light cruisers to patrol the Pacific ocean, near what was then the Dutch Indies. To this end, the Java class was designed by Germaniawerft in Kiel, Germany, to a design mandate that specified a ship potent enough to take on and out class the then recent Japanese Chikuma class. Three ships of a powerful, modern design were ordered. The first two ships designed and laid down in the Netherlands, a third and slightly larger version - to be named Celebes - was canceled before being laid down. Materials gathered for the construction of Celebes were later used in the construction of de Ruyter. However, though modern and powerful when they were designed, there were several delays that pushed back their commissioning, and by the time the two ships of the Java class that were completed entered service they were outdated. These ships were: HNLMS Java, laid down May 1916, commissioned May 1925, sunk February 1942 HNLMS Sumatra, laid down July 1916, commissioned May 1926, scuttled June 1944 After completion, Java herself sailed from the Netherlands to the Dutch Indies and arrived at Tanjung Priok on December 7th, 1925. She spent most of the years up to WWII patrolling the region, appearing at fleet events and fulfilling general PR functions. She appeared at fleet days in Surabaya, Tanjung Priok and Singapore. In 1937, during the Spanish civil war she undertook convoy escort duties in the straight of Gibraltar. In 1938 she collided with the Admiralenclass destroyer Piet Hein and underwent repairs in Surabaya. During WWII she performed escort duties in conjunction with British forces. She took part in the battle of Badung Strait which she survived unscathed, but during the Battle of the Java Sea she was hit by a torpedo from Nachi that blew off her stern, cut off her electrics and caused major flooding and damage. Fifteen minutes after the torpedo struck she sank, with 512 out of 526 crew not surviving the sinking. Sumatra meanwhile deployed to Shanghai to attend to the rising tensions between Nationalists and Communists, in 1927. A landing party of 140 men from the ship took up position in Shanghai's business quarter. Afterwards, Sumatra returned to Surabaya in the Dutch East Indies on 12 May 1927. During an unspecified event one of her turbines was damaged, and she spent some time in Surabaya undergoing a refit and repair before returning to duty in 1930. However, a fire in a boiler room during post-refit trials saw her return to Surabaya for further repairs. Later refits saw her four 75mm AA guns replaced by six 40mm ones. She spent the rest of the pre-war years accompanying Java on various PR duties, until sailing for the Netherlands in 1939, just before the war broke out. It was during WWII that Sumatra met her fate, though she survived longer than her ill-fated sister did. At the outbreak of war she sailed to England along with other remnants of the Dutch fleet still in national waters. There she was outfitted with a degaussing cable to help protect her against magnetic mines. She spent the early years of the war waiting for an extensive refit that never materialized, and in 1942 sailed for Ceylon, being capable of only 15 knots. Later in that same year she made her way back to Portsmouth where she was laid up. Problems with her propulsion prevented her from fulfilling front line duties. In 1944 Sumatra was scuttled off the coast of Normandy, and her 150mm guns were used to replace old, worn guns on Flores class gunboats. HNLMS Sumatra sunk as block ship. So what would these ships look like in game? For purposes of this thread I will treat them like tier 3 light cruisers. Tonnage: 8087 tons full load. This gives us 24.900 hit points rounded. A sizable chunk for tier 3, putting her ahead of most of her competition apart from St Louis, who still has just shy of 5.000 hit points on her. Armor: Though this image shows the armor profile, it lacks the thickness values. For those, we look to Wikipedia, which gives us the following numbers: 75mm belt 25 to 50mm deck 125mm conning tower 100mm shields Where I assume 'shields' means gun shields, for her main armament. Some values are not mentioned, like any upper belt, or the values of her turtleback armor. However, if we look at the design for de Ruyter, we find values of 13mm for the weather deck and 30mm for the turtleback. I find these values completely reasonable for use in Java. Finally, as a tier 3 light cruiser, she would have 6mm fore- and aft end plating. This is a very soft armor profile, typical of the tier. Her turtleback would give her a small measure of longevity against cruiser AP, but with an above water citadel she would not be very survivable. Only at close-ish range and against cruiser level AP would her armor profile give her a small measure of resilience. For the rest, fairly typical of the type and tier. Main armament: 10x Bofors 150mm /50 These are nominally the same guns as found on de Ruyter. However, they use an older mount and are listed with a slightly lower rate of fire of 5rpm, for a 12 second reload. Plus, despite the fact that 10x 150mm sounds pretty potent, the layout of the guns - two superfiring afore, two superfiring aft, six in wing mounts, three a side - means that she could only bring 7 to bear to a broadside. If we take de Ruyter's values for damage and fire chance and account for the general build of the ship, including the height of the main fire director, we get the following values: 12s reload 22.5s traverse time 900 mps muzzle velocity 2200 HE dmg, 12% fire chance 3100 AP dmg 12.5km range 119m dispersion 77.000 broadside HE DPM 108.500 broadside AP DPM These are low DPM numbers for tier 3 light cruisers, barely keeping pace with those found on Tenryu, which has torpedoes to supplement her gunnery. However, if we think back to de Ruyter, I gave her improved autobounce angles and a shorter fuse time to increase the effectiveness of her gunnery, based on the fact that she carried British made shells. I believe that it wouldn't be out of place to implement the same values here. After all, they use essentially the same gun, with the same shells. As far as I know, Java and Sumatra also used British made 150mm shells during the second world war. 5ms fuse time (compared to 33ms on normal cruiser AP) 60 ~ 75 degree ricochet angles before normalization (compared to 45 ~ 60 on normal cruiser AP) This I believe would give her AP a nudge in efficiency, allowing Java to make herself count despite a relatively low DPM. Auxilliary armament: 8x Bofors 40mm for 61 dps at 3.5km 8x .50 M2 MG for 30 dps at 1.2km Java received 8x Bofors 40mm during her service, Sumatra 6x. As far as I can tell, both ships carried eight Browning .50. This is a very decent AA suite for tier 3, mostly owing to the ships being in service during WWII while tiered to fight WWI ships. Maneuverability: 31 knots These ships managed 31 knots out of their triple shaft, 73.000 shp drive train. Being larger and considerably heavier than, say, Tenryu class cruisers, I would give them more sluggish agility than their Japanese tier-mates: 580m turn radius 56s rudder shift Concealment: A fairly large cruiser for her tier, this would show in her concealment. 9.5km by sea 5.4km by air Consumables: Standard tier 3 cruiser Damage Control Party. Nothing else really needed. The historical ship carried planes, but as far as I know, no steam catapult was carried. Instead the planes were lifted overboard and took off from the water. I don't think a plane consumable is needed at the tier, so I wouldn't give Java one. Upgrade slots: Tier 3 standard, two slots, the 125k and 250k options. Play style: She would play like a fast, flexible light cruiser with broadside alpha rather than DPM. Every other cruiser at tier would fire faster than her, and she'd be lagging a bit in DPM causing her to lose any direct slugging match with a same tiered cruiser, thus relying on range and mobility to keep enemy fire off of her. She'd be an opportunist, staying at range and raining down shells on otherwise pre-occupied targets. Conversely she can close in and stay angled, making her turtleback armor and improved AP performance count against same tier, same type ships. Her consumables wouldn't give her an edge in any engagement. For the most part she'd offer a very straight-forward play style. Elephant in the room: I find it funny that in the 20 years between Java's design being finalized and de Ruyter being built, we went from an 8000-ish ton, 30-odd knot, soft, light cruiser with 7x 150mm broadside to a .... 8000-ish ton, 30-odd knot, soft, light cruiser with a 7x 150mm broadside. Realistically if you massage Java's reload to, say, 9 seconds, she'd make a better fit at tier 4 than de Ruyter would, and be more era appropriate, to boot. This really goes to show what a bad design de Ruyter really is, when a ship 20 years her senior is, in most respects, also her equal. And that's with a ship that was considered outdated when she was commissioned, like Java was. So in short: Pros: More competitive design for her era than her more famous counterpart de Ruyter Heavy broadside Fast Has the pedigree / tragic history Good AA Lots of information available on her design Turtleback armor Cons: Very low tier Not very flexible in terms of armaments Fairly standard, offers nothing novel Limited use as captain training ship, both due to tier and to nationality What would she cost, if implemented at tier 3? Peanuts. About $10 for the bare ship with port slot. Hell, make her a reward ship. What camouflage would she wear? Best I can find out, this is what she wore when sunk in 1942: (click for exceedingly, obnoxiously hyoog version) This camo would have the standard bonuses: -3% detectability by sea +4% dispersion incoming fire -10% post-battle service cost +50% XP In closing: Thank you for reading this, thanks to @LittleWhiteMouse for helping me nail down the format for these threads and some details for Java, @Fr05ty for helping me nail down statistics and @Snowyskies for helping me find design schematics. Sources used: ------------------------- Maybe not the most interesting ship because of her tier, but it's one of the better known Dutch ships. Besides, she saw action and that's something we don't always see with new releases.
  12. The third topic made by Lert on NA that I decided to copy to EU. Here's the link for the people that want to see the original topic on NA. So nót my idea, but an idea by Lert. He gave me permission to copy his proposals to the EU forum. ------------------------- In which I discuss my proposal for a Dutch T8 light cruiser premium, namely de Zeven Provincien, commissioned in 1953: De Zeven Provincien was one of two ships in her class, the other being de Ruyter. Sort-of. You see, these ships changed names a few too many times during their service life. The ship I'm going to discuss in this thread was ordered in 1938 as 'Kruiser 2' as part of the Eendracht class of cruisers, laid down in 1939 as Kijkduin and named Eendracht in 1940. When the Germans invaded they captured the 25% complete ship and planned to finish her as KH2. However, this project was never completed. In 1945 she was named Eendracht once again, though in 1950 she was renamed De Zeven Provincien to a very different design than the original Eendracht draft. She was commissioned in 1952 and sold to Peru in 1975, there renamed Aguirre. She was finally decomissioned and scrapped in 2000. For the purposes of this thread I will refer to her as De Zeven Provincien, or D7P. De Zeven Provincien is actually a very weighty name in the Netherlands, as it refers to the original seven provinces that declared their independence in the Unie van Utrecht in 1579, the first step in achieving independence of what eventually would become the Netherlands. It was also the name of admiral Michiel de Ruyter's flagship, a 1665 vintage, 80 gun ship of the line. Michiel de Ruyter is considered the greatest Dutch admiral ever and one of the greatest admirals in world history. His exploits is why there have been ships named de Ruyter in Dutch naval service almost interrupted for the past 200 years. So you can imagine what weight de Zeven Provincien name carries in Dutch naval history. It's a name reserved for only the best and greatest ships in our tiny country's navy, and the ship I'm talking about today truly counted. She was modernized in the 1980s and given guided missiles, but for the purposes of this thread I'll be looking at D7P as she was commissioned. Commissioned in 1953 and sailing in Dutch service until 1975, she never fired her guns in anger. She did partake in many NATO exercises and served as flagship during some of them. As such her service life is not very interesting. Moving on. So what would she look like in game? For the purposes of this thread, I'm going to argue for D7P as a T8 CL, based on long range, rapid-fire gun power and a potent AA suite. Tonnage: 11930 tons full load gives us 32100 hit points, rounded. This puts her a bit behind ships like Cleveland and Chapayev, both boasting about 37k HP, and Kutuzov with her 40k HP. Even the light weight Edinburgh has her beat with 36k HP. However, due to her play style, this low hit point total is less of a problem than one might think. Armor: De Zeven Provincien would be a very soft and weakly armored ship, to say the least. A 76mm belt at best with 50mm upper belt, a slight 30mm turtleback, 10mm fore- and aft deck and a 20mm main deck. The conning tower and turrets both had up to 125mm armor. The citadel would've been at the waterline, but any large caliber, high angle fire would easily smash through the 15mm side plating or 50mm upper belt and through the 30mm citadel roof. This ship was about as 'well protected' as Omaha, and we all know how squishy that ship is, even at tier 5. For the purposes of this game the fore-end and aft plating and weather deck would likely be artificially increased to 25mm to bring it in line with the other T8 CL, but this wouldn't be enough to make the ship 'tough'. At best it'll help deflect cruiser caliber AP fire at sharp angles. Main armament: 4x 2 152mm Bofors kanon M/42 These are late 1930s vintage guns, originally ordered by the Dutch for the Eendracht class cruisers. Post-war these guns received new mounts and new loading systems, allowing them to be used as dual purpose artillery and giving them a higher rate of fire. These fired a 45kg projectile at 900 mps. The listed rate of fire is 10 rpm in the anti-surface role up to 15 rpm in the AA role. These guns do not exist in the game yet and information on them is scarce. For example, I can't find the weight of bursting charge used in these shells. However, their mass is known, 45 kg, and as such I can compare them to other 152mm shells in the game and make an educated guess as to their performance compared to those of other ships in this game. What I find when comparing these guns to other in-game 6" guns is that the D7P fired very light shells. For example, Cleveland fired a 59kg AP shell and even Duca D'aosta a 50kg one. D7P's shells being so light means that they likely carried a smaller bursting charge and thus would do less damage than even Duca D'aosta's guns. Since the Duca's AP shells are listed at 3200 dmg and Cleveland's at 3300, I would give D7P's AP shells 3100 dmg. Fortunately the HE shells are easier to compare, since Cleveland's HE shells are of very similar weight. As such I would estimate D7P's HE shells to have a similar 2200 dmg and 12% fire chance. With 8 barrels and 10 RPM this gives us 248k AP DPM and 176k HE DPM, but how does that compare that to the other light cruisers at tier 8? (thanks @LittleWhiteMouse) D7P falls hopelessly behind in the T8 CL DPM race. However, remember when I said that the guns had 10 RPM in the anti-surface role and 15 RPM in the AA role? This is likely to do with the loading system delivering shells in a position optimized for high angle loading, meaning that against surface targets the loading system needs time to rotate the shells to a more horizontal position, taking up valuable time. However, this is true for all naval guns with an automated loading system, as shown in this famous animation: Wargaming has always ignored the need to elevate / depress barrels to the optimal loading position and always used the optimal rate of fire numbers for each gun, regardless of elevation levels or range to target. So it stands to reason that Wargaming would be more likely to use the 15 RPM number for D7P's guns than the 10 RPM number. At 15 RPM we get 372k AP DPM 264k HE DPM. These numbers would put D7P way ahead of any other CL at tier and make her more suitable for tier 9 or even tier 10 placing. However, the hull is simply not suited for that kind of tier. It's already pushing it a little bit to put her at tier 8. So what I propose is that WG use a middling 12.5 RPM. This gives us 310k AP DPM and 220k HE DPM. These numbers are competitive with the other T8 CL without going too much overboard, especially considering the hull having a low amount of hit points and very soft armor. The shel ballistics too make this high DPM less of an advantage than it seems on paper. Despite a high muzzle velocity of 900 mps these shells are the lightest 152mm at tier, and thus lose a lot of velocity over distance, making short range gunnery very comfortable but long range gunnery floaty and challenging to reliably put warheads on foreheads at range. Her height of mast and the location of her main fire director likely means very good firing range, likely at least 18km. Finally, she would likely have very competitive dispersion with high sigma owing to a very modern, 1950s era fire control system. Auxilliary armament: 4x 2 Bofors 57mm /60 8x Bofors 40mm /60 The double 57mm /60 mounts are already in the game on Republique, where they're given 306 dpm at 4.5km for 12x 2 mounts. D7P carried a third of those, so would get 102 dpm at 4.5km from these. The 40mm /60 are as far as I remember not yet in the game, but would, according to @Fr05ty have about the same effectiveness of the existing 40mm /56 mount, for approx. 95 dpm at 3.5km estimated. That's already a respectable AA bubble, especially if you consider DFAA. But the 152mm guns were dual purpose, thus would count towards the AA bubble as well. It's difficult to estimate the dpm output and range they would have though, but if we compare the damage output in the anti-surface role with, say, Minotaur's main battery DPM in the anti-surface role and in the anti-air we can at least make a semi educated guess. Minotaur puts out almost double the anti-surface DPM as D7P at 12.5 RPM, so Minotaur's 152mm AA DPS of 118 would also be sliced almost in half for 65 DPS at 6km for D7P's main battery AA DPS. This is just an estimate, at best a ballpark number. So 65 DPS at 6km, 160 total DPS at 4.5km and 262 total DPS at 3.5km. Those are pretty respectable numbers, but become very nasty if you take DFAA and Manual AA into account. Speed: 32 knots. The base bottom for 'decent' cruiser speed at that tier. In terms of agility I would give her a relatively quick rudder as well as a relatively small turning circle owing to being a modern and very light design. Let's say 6s base rudder shift and a 640m turning radius. This puts her in the upper end of maneuverability for T8 light cruisers without going overboard, or forgetting that this is a relatively big ship. Concealment: This is a large ship with tall masts. She'll likely have bad concealment. While lighter than Cleveland, she's taller and likely more visible. In fact, her height of mast is comparable to that of Mikhail Kutuzov, meaning that she likely has similar concealment. Kutuzov boasts 14.1km by sea and 9.3 by air, with her premium camouflage but no other factors like upgrades or captain skills. Why does mast height matter so much for concealment as well as firing range? Well, in real life the ocean is curved, because the earth is round. The taller your masts and the higher up the fire director, the further your horizon is and the further you can see, but also the sooner you're seen by others. Consumables: Let's get the elephant out of the room: this ship would not get radar. Regardless of my personal opinion about radar, adding more radar ships to the game would lead to an increase of complaints on the forum. So I've elected not to propose radar for this ship. That leaves the following consumable suite. We'll start by your standard complement of Damage Control Party and Defensive AA. Because this is a very modern but very flimsy ship, I'd add a repair party. Standard like on Atago and Eugen if sufficient, RN Superheal if necessary for balance. Since this ship had no provisions for an airplane, I would give her smoke to round out her consumable suite. Playstyle: De Zeven Provincien would be a long range firebreather, if anything. With a soft hull and low health she's forced to stay back and try to make herself as unappetizing a target as possible. Fortunately her maneuverability, heal and smoke consumable help with this play style. Finally, her ballistics are sufficient to hit targets at medium to longer ranges with her initially very good muzzle velocity, but gunnery will become more difficult the further out a target is due to her light shells. And if a target presents itself at closer range, she has the AP DPM and short range muzzle velocity to rip them asunder with withering fire. With her DFAA on a potent AA suite she would make an excellent AA picket ship, and her speed - while unimpressive in its own right - is still sufficient to keep up with the battleships. She also has the agility to dodge long range incoming fire, especially from battleships, meaning that her low hit points pool is less of an issue than it first appears to be. As such, this is truly the supportiest of support ships, with every aspect of her play style pushing her towards this role. Elephant in the room: There were two ships of this class, de Ruyter and de Zeven Provincien. This gives us one ship for the tech tree and one as premium. Problem solved, right? Well, no. A Dutch cruiser tree is likely going to have the 1930s de Ruyter at tier 4, meaning that we can't have de Zeven Provincien's sistership de Ruyter in the tech tree nor as premium, at least, not under that name. So how to solve this? I would propose that Wargaming introduce de Zeven Provincien as T8 premium, and include her sister de Ruyter in the tech tree under the name Kijkduin. "But wait, wasn't Kijkduin one of the names used for de Zeven Provincien, and not de Ruyter?" Yes, but one of the names used for de Ruyter during its equally long construction process was de Zeven Provincien. There were two of these ships built, and it would be a shame to pass up the opportunity for a built-in-steel, has-served, T8 premium cruiser for the Dutch. Whichever way you spin it, Wargaming is going to have to apply some creativity in naming the tech tree ship vs the premium ship, but I would consider it a great shame if they elected not to introduce this premium only because it would create some confusion with the name. Plus, it's not like we don't have precedence for the exact same ship appearing in the game twice under a new name. Isn't that right Krasny Krymand Admiral Makarov? Finally, tech tree ships are often an amalgamation of various in-class sister ships anyways, rather than being a specific one out of the series. So, in short: Pros: - Has served a long service life of almost 50 years (Her sister served almost 65 years) - Dozens of pages of elaborate blueprints are readily available (Seriously, dozens. Check out the gahetna link in sources, linked at the bottom) - ROF range allows for easy re-balancing and re-tiering if needed to fill a hole - Every aspect of the ship points to a singulearplay style, no 'bote schizophrenia' here - Is a majestic ship with great lines. Cons: - Dutch nation not in game - Likely limited appeal due to this - Limited appeal as captain trainer - No truly legendary historical feats, served only in peace time Like with my Witte de With proposal the greatest hurdle to overcome is to convince the highly USN centric NA server of the necessity to include ships that would likely appeal to very few of the players here based purely on nationality, and with very limited captain training potential to boot. The ship has to appeal to people on its own merit, of a rapid-fire, reasonably maneuverable AA picket / fleet support ship. Unfortunately that is not a role that appeals to the average player, and the high skill floor and ceiling of this ship will likely mean that only the experienced and more skilled players would pick this ship up. However, I do still firmly believe that this ship has a place in the game, and while I would jump for joy if this ship is included in a Dutch cruiser tree, I think the more realistic option is as a premium either stand-alone like ORP Błyskawica or as captain trainer for a Pan-Eropean tree. Another option is to include D7P as Aguirre or D7P's sister de Ruyter as Almirante Grau as Peruvian ships in a pan-American tree. However, as Dutchman I would prefer to see her flying the Dutch flag, of course. What would she cost, if implemented at tier 8? Same as other T8 premium cruisers, around 10k ~ 11k doubloons, or $50 USD. "But I don't like the ship at T8!" I put her at T8 because of competitive DPM and a potent AA suite more than anything. I do admit the hull is more suited for T7 or even T6, being a late 1930s hull basically with 1950s powerplant and armament. I could see an argument for lowering her DPM and putting her in at T7. Likewise, the mounts were capable of 15 RPM, which would give a DPM more suitable to tier 9. However, personally, I wanted a T8 premium ship for the Dutch, and this was the most likely candidate. "But didn't you originally put her at tier 6?" Yes. I did. However, since then I learned a lot more about the ship itself, the weapons used, and about the game and game balance in general. T6 is simply too low a tier for a ship with this DPM, unless you pick the absolute lowest possible number, and gimp her in other ways. Even then you'd still have an AA suite that's way too potent for tier 6. What camouflage would she wear? Unfortunately I've not been able to find pictures of her wearing anything other than a standard, uniform, naval gray overcoat with black mast tops and a white C802 hull number on the bow. Closing words: Thank you all for reading another in-depth proposal for a Dutch ship. After Witte de With I just had to write up a proposal for this ship. I hope you find her as interesting as I do. Thank you @LittleWhiteMouse, @Snowyskies and @Fr05ty for helping make this proposal possible. Sources used: @Pigeon_of_War ------------------------- Another ship that I'd like to see in my port. I'm not a fan of camouflages never worn by the ship in question (or any of her sisterships), and wouldn't mind if WG either gave us the Hood/Tashkent option, or tweak the "credit camouflages" so that you could sail with a plain paint scheme. What's more important though is the tier where to place this ship if she'll come to game. I've already heard some arguments why she should be placed at a lower tier. On a sidenote: while De Zeven Provinciën was scrapped, her sistership De Ruyter still exists and was only decommissioned from the Peruvian Navy last year. While chances are very small, I still hope she'll return to the Netherlands one day as a museum ship.
  13. I don't think this has been posted yet, I couldn't find it on this forum at least. WG posted an article on their site. I think there are plenty of people who agree with me it's about time to see the first Dutch ship ingame. The article focuses on the Battle of the Java Sea. https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/history/navy-from-holland-isnt-that-weird/
  14. Robber_Baron

    The Battle of the Java Sea

    I found this short video from the Dutch MoD about the Battle of the Java Sea, today 75 years ago. Although spoken Dutch, I thought it's worth sharing:

    Dutch Speaking Forum

    Hello Wargaming.net. Is it posible to make (Start) a Dutch Spreaking Forum subboard. For players in The Netherlands and Belgium(Vlaams/Dutch part) Other belgium part is france Also who like moderatie in dutch. Greets
  16. The Zeven Provinciën-class frigates are highly advanced air-defence and command frigates in service with the Koninklijke Marine (Royal Netherlands Navy). This class of ships is also known as LCF (Luchtverdedigings- en commandofregat, air defense and command frigate). The ships are similar to the German Sachsen-class frigates in role and mission. Class overview Operators: Royal Netherlands Navy Preceded by: Tromp-class frigate Cost: €600 million ($816 million) In commission: April 26, 2002 Completed: 4 Active: 4 List of ships F802 De Zeven Provinciën F803 Tromp F804 De Ruyter F805 Evertsen The MS Tromp Anti-air warfare These ships were optimized for the anti-air warfare role. For this role the ships are equipped with an advanced sensor and weapons suite. The primary sensors for this role are the long range surveillance radar SMART-L and the multi-function radar APAR. The SMART-L and APAR are highly complementary, in the sense that SMART-L is a D band radar providing very long range surveillance while APAR is an I band radar providing precise target tracking, a highly capable horizon search capability, and missile guidance using the Interrupted Continuous Wave Illumination (ICWI) technique, thus allowing guidance of 32 semi-active radar homing missiles in flight simultaneously, including 16 in the terminal guidance phase. The primary anti-air weapons are the point defence Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile and the area defence SM-2 Block IIIA. The Mk 41 Vertical Launch System is used to house and launch these missiles. 32 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile and 32 SM-2 Block IIIA are carried. The Zeven Provincien Ballistic missile defence The Koninklijke Marine is investigating the use of these ships for the role of Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD). During tests carried out by HNLMS Tromp in the Pacific ocean near Hawaii, experimental modifications to the SMART-L to allow even longer range were proven (detailed in the Tromp article). A study by the Koninklijke Marine, the Netherlands Defence Material Organization, Thales Nederland, Raytheon Missile Systems, Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, and Lockheed Martin has been conducted to establish the feasibility of modifying the De Zeven Provinciën class to provide it the capability to intercept ballistic missiles. In particular, the study examined the feasibility of integrating the SM-3 Block IB missile with the SMART-L and APAR radars. The study concluded that - with certain modifications to the SMART-L and APAR, as well as to the ship's Combat Management System and the missile itself - BMD with the De Zeven Provinciën class could be achieved. A contract was awarded for the radar modification in June 2012. The Ruyter Modernizing The De Zeven Provinciën class are very modern. The De Zeven Provinciën-class ships will get the new Smart-L mk2 radar that can detect ballistic missiles at a range of 2,000 km (1,200 mi). The Dutch minister promised also that the APAR radar will have a bigger range than 400 km (250 mi). This is because the Netherlands is the first country that is participating as an active missile shield for NATO. In late 2011, the Ministry of Defence announced a modernization program to upgrade the SMART-L early-warning radar so that De Zeven Provinciën-class frigates can detect and track ballistic missiles at extended range. Although there are no plans to acquire the BDM-capable SM-3 surface-to-air missiles, De Zeven Provinciën-class frigates can pass on the tracking and detection data to other sea-based or land-defense BMD assets, including U.S. Navy’s warships, that can deal with a ballistic missile threat. This modernization program is scheduled for completion by late 2017 for the entire De Zeven Provinciën class. The Evertsen