Jump to content

Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'battlecruiser'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


  • Forum
    • English Speaking Forum
    • Deutschsprachige Community
    • Polska Społeczność
    • Česká a slovenská komunita
    • Communauté francophone
    • Comunità Italiana
    • Comunidad de habla española
    • Türkçe Topluluk
  • Mod Section
    • Rules, Announcements and General Discussion (English)
    • Modding Tutorials, Guides and Tools (English)
    • Interface Mods
    • Visual Mods
    • Sound Mods
    • Modpacks
    • Other Mods and Programs
    • Archive
  • Historical Section


  • Community Calendar
  • This Day in History

Find results in...

Find results that contain...

Date Created

  • Start


Last Updated

  • Start


Filter by number of...


  • Start





Website URL








Found 19 results

  1. Tijger (Eng: Tiger) was a class of three ships (originally planned as five ships) build for the Dutch Royal Navy (DRN). Designed in respond to The Japanese battlecruiser - Kongo. The Tijger-class battlecruisers were the most active capital ships of the Dutch Royal Navy during both World War I and World War II, participating in most major engagements of the wars, In World War I after the Netherlands' capitulation Tijger and Leuw went to Britain and were seized by the British. During World War 1, both ships partook in the Battle of the Falkland Islands (Leuw), the Battle of Jutland (Tijger sinking SMS Seydlitz) and the Second Battle of Heligoland Bight. In World War 2, Tijger participated in the sinking of Bismarck, but could not arrive in time to be of major effect to the engagement. She later fought in the Battle of Calabria and the Battle of Cape Matapan before becoming the flagship of the Dutch-British fleet in the Battle of the Wakatobi. Only Panter would be sunk by enemy action in 1941, either by gunfire from Kongou or Mutsu two weeks before the Battle of the Wakatobi. After the war, Tijger and Leuw went into reserve until 1953, when plans were made to turn them into museum ships. Tijger is preserved in Amsterdam, while attempts were made to sell Leuw to Singapore, but due to economic concerns, the plan was aborted and Leuw would eventually be scrapped in 1958 HrMS Leuw (in the middle) and HrMS Panter (far right) in Rotterdamn, 1914 (Actually it's Hiei) Service/constructed Type - Battlecruiser. Organization: Dutch Royal Navy (1913-1914, 1918-1953), British Royal Navy (1914-1918) Builders: Portsmouth Dockyard and Rotterdam Dockyard. Constructed: Tijger, laid down in January 20 1911, launched in 6 June 1912, commisioned In September 9 1913 Leuw, laid down in January 25 1911, launched in 13 June 1912, commisioned October 21 1913. Panter, laid down in December 1 1911, launched in april 15 June 1913, commisioned July 14 1914. Leopard, never finished as battlecruiser, but reconstructed as aircraft carrier in 1926. Gepard, laid down in July 1913, scrapped in 1919. General characteristics Displacement: 28 500 tonns (standard), Full: 32 000 tonns (Tijger) 28 500 tonns, Full: 32 000 tonns (Leuw), 28 500 tonns, Full 32 500 tonns (Panter) After 1937 and 1930 refits 30 800 tonns, Full: 34 200 tonns (Tijger) 30 500 tonns, Full: 33 900 tonns (Leuw) 30 500 tonns, Full: 33 800 tonns (Panter) Length of Keel: 206 meters Length from Bow to Aft: 223 meters Beam 28.9 meters Draft 9.5 meters Armaments x4*2 14'' (356 mm) Mk I gun firing range - 25-32 km x16 6'' (152 mm) x6*2 4'' (105 mm boffors) multi porpuse guns (1934) AA 8 3'' (76) salute guns (1912-1934) many 1.5'' (40 mm) bofors. (1938). Armor 9'' (229 mm (KSA*)) armor belt. upper belt - 6'' (152 mm) casimates - 4'' (100). aft and rear belts - 3'' (76) underwater belt - 3'' (76) Total armor of deck - 2'' (152) changed to 4,1'' in 1926 (105 mm) armor of citadel - 2'' (51 mm) changed to 3'' (76 mm) 9'' (229) changed to 10'' after Jutland (254 mm), sides - 8'' (203), top 3'' (76). barbettes - 10'' (254) Athwartship - 8'' (203) Anti-Torpedo protection 2 torpedo bulges thickness - 16 mm (1927) *Note all armor is KSA - Krupp steel alloy Propulsion x36 Yarrow boilers (coal (changed to Brown Curtis 14 boilers (completely oil-fired) in 1927) x4 Parson turbines Power installed: 76 000 H.P (1912-1927), 146 000 (1925) speed: 27.5 knots (1912-1925), 31.2 knots (1925) range: 7000 miles crew: 1347 people. Tijger as Battlecruiser in 1917 Tijger in 1932. History of Design As Japan start to expand their territories, United Kingdom Of Netherlands and Belguim were fully aware of Japanese actions and started to build their new navy, Lunch of HMS Drednought escalated it even more. In 1908 Dutch Luanched their first Drednought - De Ruyter and 1 more was ordered in 1908. Originally Dutch Design Deparment come out with those characteristics 19 000 tonne armoured cruiser (actually battlecruiser) 4*2 12'' one aft, one fore and 2 in ashelone but they had broadside of 3 turrets on each side. speed 24 knots (54 000 hp) armor belt 140 mm but commissioning of Invincible class in 1907 brought the end of that design. In 1909 Vickers designed a battlecruiser for the Japanese Navy, it asked Vickers to design and build their battlecruiser, which became Kongou. Dutch knew about the Ishizuchi (later Kongo) design when she was still on blueprints since they had an exteremely good intelligence network In Japan and the Vickers company. On October 3 1910 the Dutch Admiralty and Dutch Warship committee made up demands: 8 or (preferably) 10 14'' (356-360 mm) Armor belt thicker than 8 inchies speed 27 knots range 7000 miles crew 1300 people Vickers pick up the demand and John Lighstrong proposes to George Thurston (chief engineer of Kongo class and Tijger class battlecruisers) to just copy the existing ship, improve propulsion and add an additional inch of armor belt, but reduce the caliber of secendary guns to 5''. On October 14 1910 John Lighstrong and George Thurston showed designs to the Admiralty and they approved the designs, only problem was: need higher caliber for secondary batteries - 6'' (152 mm) Armor belt 9'' (229) not 8 (203) as it was currently. In 3 days the ship was proposed again and the Admiralty accepted the design. It was decided to build 2 ships in the British Portsmouth Shipyard, and 3 other in the Netherlands. Design discription Propulsion The Tijger-class ships had two sets of Parsons direct-drive steam-turbines, each of which drove two propeller shafts. The high-pressure turbines drove the wing shafts while the low-pressure turbines drove the inner shafts. The turbines were arranged in two compartments, separated by a centerline longitudinal bulkheads; both compartments were situated between turrets No. 3 and 4. They were designed to produce a total of 76,000 shaft horsepower, using steam provided by 36 Yarrow, with working pressures ranging from 17.1 to 19.2 atm (1,733 to 1,945 Kpa; 251 to 282 psi). The boilers, arranged in eight compartments, were mixed-firing with feul firing sprayed onto the coal for extra power. The ships had a stowage capacity of 4,200 long tons (4,300 t) of coal and 1,000 long tons (1,000 t) of oil, giving them a range of 7,000 nautical miles (12964; 8055 mile) at a speed of 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph). The battlecruisers were designed to reach a speed of 27.5 knots (50.9 km/h; 31.6 mph) and all of them exceeded that speed on their sea trials. The Tijger and Leuw attained 27.54 knots (51.00 km/h; 31.69 mph) and 27.72 knots (51.34 km/h; 31.90 mph) with 79,172 shp and 81,443. Armament The Tijger-class ships had two sets of Parsons direct-drive steam-turbines, each of which drove two propeller shafts. The high-pressure turbines drove the wing shafts while the low-pressure turbines drove the inner shafts. The turbines were arranged in two compartments, separated by a centerline longitudinal bulkheads; both compartments were situated between turrets No. 3 and 4. They were designed to produce a total of 76,000 shaft horsepower, using steam provided by 36 Yarrow boilers, with working pressures ranging from 17.1 to 19.2 atm (1,733 to 1,945 Kpa; 251 to 282 psi). The boilers, arranged in eight compartments, were mixed-firing with oil sprayed on the coal for extra power. The ships had a stowage capacity of 4,200 long tons (4,300 t) of coal and 1,000 long tons (1,000 t) of oil, giving them a range of 7,000 nautical miles (12964; 8055 mile) at a speed of 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph). The battlecruisers were designed to reach a speed of 27.5 knots (50.9 km/h; 31.6 mph) and all of them exceeded that speed during their sea trials. The Tijger and Leuw attained 27.54 knots (51.00 km/h; 31.69 mph) and 27.72 knots (51.34 km/h; 31.90 mph) with 79,172 shp and 81,443 respectively. Armament The primary armament of the Tijger-class consisted of eight 45-caliber 14-inch guns, mounted in four superfiring twin-gun turrets (same guns as on Kongo, but with sligtly heavier shells - 675 kg). The turrets had an elevation capability of -5/+25 degrees except on Tijger whose turrets had a maximum elevation capability of +20 degrees. The shells could be loaded at any angle and the guns had a firing cycle of 25-30 seconds. These guns and their turrets underwent multiple modernizations throughout the ships' careers. During the first reconstruction of the class during the 1920s, the elevation of the main guns was increased to a maximum of +35 degrees. The recoil mechanism of the guns was also changed from a hydraulic to a pneumatic system, which allowed for a faster firing cycle of the main guns. By World War II, the guns used Mk VII armor-piercing capped shells. Each of these shells weighed 713 kilograms and had a muzzle velocity of 800 meters per second. They had a maximum range of 25,000 meters (27,000 yd) at +20 degrees of elevation and 35,450 meters (38,770 yd) at +40 degrees after modernisation. Also available was a 625-kilogram high-explosive shell that had a muzzle velocity of 815 meters per second. As built, the Tijger class was fitted with a secondary armament of sixteen 50-caliber six-inch guns mounted in single casemates along the sides of the hull on the upper deck. Eight guns were mounted per side, each having an arc of fire of 130 degrees and a maximum elevation of +15 degrees. Each gun could fire a 45.36 kilogram (100 lb) high explosive projectile to a maximum distance of 22,970 yards (21,000 m) at a rate of between four and six shots per minute. During their reconstruction in the 1930s, the maximum elevation of the guns was increased to +30 degrees, which increased their maximum range by approximately 900 metres (980 yd). The ships also mounted four 40-caliber 76 mm anti-aircraft (AA) guns. The 76-millimetre (3 in) high-angle guns were in single mounts. Each of these guns had a maximum elevation of +75 degrees and could fire a 6 kg (13 lb) projectile with a muzzle velocity of 680 m/s (2,200 ft/s) to a maximum height of 7,500 metres (24,600 ft). None of the ships were equiped with torpedoes since the Dutch Admiralty thought that torpedoes were useless on a capital ship. The Tijger class's secondary armament changed significantly over time. During the modernizations of the 1930s, all of the 76 mm guns were replaced with twelve 50-caliber 105 mm (4.1''). These guns were fitted in twin mounts, 2 on each side of the fore and aft superstructures and 2 on the funnel platform . When firing at surface targets, the guns had a range of 14,700 metres (16,100 yd); they had a maximum ceiling of 9,440 metres (30,970 ft) at their maximum elevation of +90 degrees. Their maximum rate of fire was 18 rounds a minute, but their sustained rate of fire was around 12 rounds per minute. The light AA armament of the Tijger class changed dramatically from 1933 to 1944. During the second reconstruction, the ships were fitted with four to eight twin 25 mm machine-guns, later replaced by 40-millimeter Bofors. The 40 mm guns were mounted on the Tijger class in double, triple and quad mounts. Leuw utimately carried 82 guns - 16 twin 40mm, 10 quad 40mm and 10 twin 20mm Oerlikons. Construction and History First Tijger was laid down in January 20 1911 and a week later Leuw. On June 6 1912 9000 people observed Tijger's launch, including queen Wilhelmina, King Goerge V, Theo De Meester (prime minister of the United Kingdom of Netherlands and Belguim), H. H. Asquish (UK PM) and First Sea Lord of Netherlands - Albert Ghalen launch of HrMS Tijger (actualy Kongo) She made 28,3 kts during her sea trials with 81,443 horpsepower Shortly after her commissioning she went to Dutch-British exercises. Her commisioning set off a lot of confusion in the Japanese Admiralty since the ship was literally an improved Kongou with additional armor. World War I In 22 June 1914 HrMS Panter was on her way to East Indies, Leuw in South Africa (ducth colony, alternative history) and Tijger was anchored in Amstedam with HrMS Tjerk and De Ruyter in 1st Battleship squdron (actually 2nd, but she was in a battlecruiser squadron with the armored cruisers Holland, Zeeland and Java) After the assasination of archduke Franz Ferdinand ships were loaded to wartime standard and 2nd Battlecruiser squadron moved to patrol the North sea on July 30th. On August the 3rd Germany diclared war on the United Kingdom of Netherlands and Belguim. On the same day at 6 o'clock Tijger and her squadron engaged SMS Yorck and Augsburg, the latter being sunk by Zeeland at 9:05 and Tijger sinking Yorck at 10:32 (Yorck detonated). On August 5th Tijger and Tjerk were bombarding german ground forces, which were 4km North of Amsterdam, but Amsterdam was captured and the UKNB capitulated, however Dutch Vice Admiral Louis Astvir refused to surrender and decided to sail to Britain. At the morning on the 7th Tijger, Tjerk, De Ruyter, 2 armoured cruisers, 3 cruisers and 24 destroyers/torpedo boats arrived at Scapa Flow. The following day the ships raised British Royal Navy flags, but the Dutch crew remained; Tijger was renamed to HMS Splendid and Leuw to HMS Holland. HMS Splendid was assigned to 5th Battlecruiser squadron and during gunnery practice she prooved to be the most accurate ship in squadron. HMS Splendid was ordered to patrol the North Sea. HMS Holland was ordered to Europe on October 29 1914, but the defeat at the Battle of Coronel delayed this and she was to stay at Cape untill she could join the british battlecruisers Invincible and Inflexible. After meeting up with them Doveton made Holland his flagship due to the fact that she was much more powerful than the Invincible class. During the Battle of Falklands HMS Holland sunk the armoured cruiser Scharnhorst and took 6 210 mm hits and 8 105 mm, 4 people died and 15 were injured. After the battle Leuw (HMS Holland) went to Britain for minor repairs and was placed in Horace Hood's squadron in the Grand Fleet. On 14 December HMS Splendid, along with the entire british battlecruiser squadron, tried to intercept and destroy Hipper's scouting squadron after a raid on Scarbrough, but failed. At the Battle of Dogger Bank Splendid took 4 hits: first hit on the bow, which threw her port anchor into the sea, second hit was a ricochet from B turret (apparently hit from SMS Seydlitz), third hit was to the belt, causing minor damage, and the final hit was to the main rangefinder (which was above the bridge), killing 6 people and injuring everybody on the bridge, including Commander Jacob Van Kleij (captain of Splendid/Tijger from 1916-1919, Vice Admiral from 1930-1936 and finally Admiral from 1937-1943, commanding the Dutch-British Fleet in the Java Sea); Meanwhile Splendid hit Seydlitz 9 times and later she concentrated her fire on Blucher, hitting her 14 times. Eventually Blucher sank and Splendid took the survivors. Afterwards Splendind went in for repairs until February. Battle Of Jutland On May 26 HMS Princess Royal struck a mine so Splendid replaced her in the line of battle. At 16:50, during a run to the south Splendid hit SMS Seydlitz, causing heavy damage and as a result sinking her, even though the British were not aware of this. During night actions she blew up SMS Hannover. During the course of the battle Splendid received 14 heavy shell hits (5 30.5 cm from Derflinger, 7 28.0 cm hits from Seydlitz and 1 28.0 from Hannover); 103 people had died. One of the hits landed right next to her starboard gun in Q turret, taking it out of action, and thus she had 7 guns during the battle. Damage suffered during Battle of Jutland (red - high calibre shell hit, yellow 150 mm hit). Meanwhile her sister didn't suffer any damage whatsoever, but she hit SMS Moltke and Konig (Konig 3 times, Moltke 5 times). After the battle Splendid was under repairs until August In Sepetember 1916 Leuw was assigned to the Mediterranean and while on her way there she escorted HMHS Britannic - an Olympic-class liner which was rebuilt as a floating hospital. At 08:12 on 21 November 1916, Britannic struck a mine, HMS Holland and two destroyers that happened to be near started atnti-torpedo manoeuvers, thinking that german U-boats were nearby (also due to the fact that SS Burdigala ex- SS Kaiser Friedrich, which was sunk week earlier in same area by a german U-boat). After 15 minutes of manoeuvering HMS Holland's captain realised that there was no sign of enemy U-boats and he began to evacuate people from Britannic onboard, which took aproximately 20 minutes. Following this attempts were made to save the liner and HMS Holland began to tow her to the Island of Kea, (luckily the port holes had been sealed and Britannic was sinking relatively slowly). Britannic made to Kea where she ran aground and was later salvaged in 1919 and brought back to the White Star Line, where she continued her service, along with her sister ship - Olympic. In 1951 they were to be scrapped, but Britannic was saved by 20th Century Fox and she was filmed in the movies "Titanic", "A Night to Remember" and "Britannic" (1963; fictional movie just for fun becouse why not :D) and was later preserved as a museum ship in Halifax. Anyway this is story of Tijger/Splendid class isn't it? After the saving of Britannic, HMS Holland was boambarding the Dardanelles and in January 1917 she engaged Yavuz Sultan Selim (ex-Goeben 2nd ship of Moltke class). The engagement lasted 52 minutes and both ships took heavy damage, Holland took a slightly heavier damage, but was still capable of fighting. Holland (Leuw): 11 hits (only 280 mm hits), 162 men killed, 111 injured. Aftermath: penetrated belt , damaged turbine and 8 boilers, Y turret knocked out, one hit to the aft and a few fires. As a result of the damage the ship was in repairs for 5 months. Yavuz took 9 hits 356 mm and 24 152 mm hits, 1 turret was jammed for a while, ruddder jammed, full conning tower penetration, small secondary gun magazine explosion and a short term fire, which nearly caused main gun magazine detonation. HMS Weymouth, which was escorting Holland (Leuw), sank from a detonation, caused by Yavuz. Aft hit to Leuw after engagement with Yavuz (actually this photo of HMS Warspite after Jutland) Panter with the rest of the Dutch fleet were in the Dutch East Indies until 1916 when in June they were called to the Mediterenian Sea. For the rest of the war all three ships were patrolling the seas where they were stationed. During this time Splendid shined again and participated in the 2nd Battle of Heligoland Bight, sinking cruiser SMS Koln and receiving 2 105 mm hits. On 11 of November the Armistice was signed, marking the end of the war. Later on HMS Splendid, HMS Holland and rest of Dutch fleet, which had been seized in 1914, were returned and given their original names back. Interwar Period In 1919 Tijger and Leuw took part in escorting th German Fleet to Scapa Flow, directly behind the US Squadron. On the 21 of June 1919 Germans started scuttling their ships, (in this timeline) only Badaen, Hindenburg and Derflinger were saved; Hindenburg in particular was saved by the actions of HMS Warspite and Tijger. After the accident german crews were sent back to Germany and the surviving ships were crewed by the British. On June 28 1919 according to the Treaty of Versiles UKNB got all german territory west of Rhine fell under Dutch authority for 16 years, also after they got Papua New Guinea. years and Germany had to pay 42 billion gold marks as reparations as well as give up SMS Hindenburg and the cruisers Graudenz and Regensburg, also Dutch demanded to Germans to finish 3 battleships that they ordered in 1914, which were nealy finsihed but stayed on slipways: Zwijger, Oranje-Nassau and Prinz, In 1920 all 3 ships were commisioned in DRN Zwijger-class in 1920 Netherlands's economical situation was in a really bad state after The Great War, losing 654,349 people and double of that were injured. 38% of factories were destroyed by the Germans during the war and/or by Dutch Partisans, which was a heavy hit to the dutch economy. This all meant that the Netherlands couldn't sustain both a relatively large navy and an army (at least what was left of it). In 1920 6 out of 18 Light/Protected cruisers were scrapped (keep in mind that 2 of those cruisers were seized from Germany), 45 out of 95 destroyers/torpedo boats and 2 out of 10 ARC were also sent to be scrapped. Next year it was decided to sell a few cruisers and Hindenburg to Brazil or any other nation, which might be interested. UKNB In 1919 In July 1921 Brazil bought Hindenburg, 4 cruisers, 2 ARC, 25 destroyers. All ships arrived in Brazil, except Hindenburg. At 9:15 October 3 1921 Hindenburg set sail for Brazil. At 20:00 (Rotterdam time) October 7 Rotterdam radio tower recieved the last massage from Hindenburg "All alrigt, Heading to Rio De Janeiro". At 23:00 when another radio message should have been sent there was silence, but it was thought that everything was alright and the crew had simply forgotten to send a message. The next moarning no massage was recieved, and it was thought that ship might be out of radio range. The ship should have been in range of Brazilian radio towers, but no signs of the ship were present on the 9th and 10th of October. The Brazilian, Dutch and British fleets immediately started search operetions, dozens of cruisers, 4 battlecruisers .(Tijger, Leuw, HMS Tiger and HMS Hood) and 1 battleship (HMS Warpite), along with several rescue ships and liners like RMS Mauritania and RMS Britannic were sent. There were no SOS signals sent by Hindenburg. HMS Hood was closest to pintpointing the place of the accident. In fact she had radio conversation on the 5th of October near the West coast of Spain. After 2 weeks of searching Hindenburg was claimed to be lost along with her whole 1208 people on board. There are many theories regarding the loss of Hindenburg 1. German sabotage: 1.1 The ship had bombs planted in the magazines either in 1918 or during the Scapa Flow accident, which is the most unlikely scenario. After attempts to scuttle ship were checked for everywhere, but no signs of bombs were spotted. 1.2 Bombs were planted same day she set sail from Rotterdam by a German spy onboard the ship. 1.3 spontaneous cordite explosion (official one) 1.4 spontaneous fire in her magazines 1.5 Since after she Scapa Flow Accident Hindenburg had issiues with electrocity, so fires happened due electrocity problems in magazines and ships magazine detonated. Now other theories 2 Ship might have been stolen by aliens 3 Ship might have been sunk by Kraken etc, etc of course last two theories were made by conspiracy theorists so they most likely didn't happened (you guys can make your own theory :D) Last Photo of HrMS Hindenburg before she wanished After the accident Invisitigations were held, meanwhile people were blaiming Germans for loss of Hindeburg, but its politics so lets skip those political isues. After Invistigation official explanation on loss of Hindenburg was a "spontaneous cordite explosion" So charges on all ships were replaced by another much more stable sort of cordite In 1922 UKNB joins Washington Naval Treaty where UKNB Navy is allowed to have 248,000 tonns of capital ship displacement, so battleships, Van Spejk and Hedrick were send to scrap yards, later is it was clear that Japan are allowed to keep Mutsu another 35,000 tonns was added to Dutch navy for building, but due economical issues Netherlands couldn't buid anything untill 1938, so it was saved for another day. 1 hull of unfinished Tijger-class ship - Leopard was allowed to be finished as Aircraft carrier Dutch Royal Navy is left with, limitation for future refits of Tijger's was no more than 33,000 tonns of standard displacement. 1 unfinished capital ship hull, later CV 3 BC's: Tijger, Leuw, Panter. 5 BB's: Tjerk, Kartenear, Zwijger, Prinz, Oranje-Nassau 12 CA (but at the time they left with 6 CA's) 14 CLs (8 at the time) and 120 DDs (50 at the time) and 14 submarines. After Washington Naval Treaty Tijger travalled to Italy and France for "Showing the Flag" Exercises comming up victorious in gunnery and damage control exercises, In 1924 she travaled to US and Japan again for showing the flag exercises only loosing to Americans in gunnery. At that it was clear that Tijger is now outdated, aspecially after commissioning of Hood and Rebuilds of Kongo. So refit was needed for the ships, It was decided to replace her machinery with fully oiled fired boilers and increase in speed, Brown Curtis boilers were choosen and to put 14 of them with grand total of 146 000 h.p so she can reach top (sustainable) speed of 31 knots (meanwhile Kongo had 12 of those boilers with 130,000 hp in 1930), Her guns needed to be changed since her old guns was very close to end of their lifespan, also new havier shells were issued - Mk V 713 Kg shells APC. New mast for new Fire Control facilities, torpedo bulges and currently on work Dual Purpose 105 mm bofors guns. Tijger and Leuw were send to refits in June 1929 and were out fro refit in 1931, Panter meanwhile was sent to refit in 1930 and was out from refit in 1932. After refits Tijger remained in Europe with HrMS Tjerk and Zwijger, meanwhile Leuw was end to Africa and Panter to East Indies. In 1936 Japan left thel treaties and escalator clause was in. (oh and by the way in 1937 Dutch consisted or 1 CV (One more in construction - HrMS Rotterdam), 3 BC, 5 BB, 9 CA, (and 1 in commision, and 2 more under construction), 10 CL (4 more under construction) and 86 destroyers (+ 19 under construction). In 1938 Ships were again refited. the were equiped with early radars and all 25 mm AA was replaced by 40 mm bofors. At this appearence all went to the new war. World War II At 30 of August Tijger and her squadron consisting of heavy cruisers: Endhoven, Frielsand and, Light cruisers: Old cruiser Java, Boer, Linburg, and 8 N-class destroyers were set to patrol. In September 2 UKNB joined World War II along with Britain and France after Germany Invaded Poland (UKNB Joined allies in 1937 after annexetion of Czechoslovakia) same day her squadron encountered submarines U-12, U-18 and U-6, Tijger took One torpedo hit, and Destroyer Naalt was sunk, from september 3 to september 24 Tijger was in repairs and stayed at Amsterdam untill January 1940. In February Endhoven with support Tijger sunk cruiser Konigsberg and few merchant ships she was escorting west of Kopenhagen. In May Netherlands capitulated, but goverment and gold reserves were evacuated, later on Tijger, Leuw and Zwijger joined force H althought they still raised dutch flags. In July 9 Tijger and Leuw took action in battle of Calabria, during the battle Tijger and Leuw heavily damaged Gulio Ceasare, sunked light cruiser Bartolomeo Colleoni (Tijger) and Bolzano (Leuw), while Tijger took 14 hits and Leuw 9: Tijger: 3 328 mm, 6 203mm and 5 152 mm hits; Leuw: 1 328 mm, 8 203 mm hits. After the battle both ships were in repairs in Alexandria. Before Calabria Vice Admiral Jacob Van Kleij asked Piet De Jong who was naval minister and Admiral of the Fleet at the time to send 2 Battleships and 1 battlecruiser along with 1 aircraft carrier to the Miditerranean sea but it was rejected but still Jacob managed to convincied Piet to send Aircraft carrier Rotterdam. Later in November Tijger along with HMS Warspite were escorting Aircraft carriers Formidable, Ark Royal and Rotterdam to fomous atack on Toronto. After Toronto both ships were escorting Convoys from US to Britain and to Egypt. In may 23rd 1941 Tijger was escorting convoy while KMS Sharnhost engaged her although engagement wasnt desicive both ships took light damage, Tijger took just one hit on her stern while Sharnhost took 3 hits on her hull and superstracture, after 12 minutes of this combat both ships disengaged. at 25 of may Tijger recieved "Sink, The Bismarck, Sink the Bismarck!" Telegram same day she was 150 km weast of south-west coast of Ireland at the time. At 26 of July she came in but was very late Bismarck was already sinking Tijger didn't shoot a shot and started saving oparation, but hour after saving operations german submarines came in and she was forced to run away along woth Rodney and King George V, she managed to save 182 crew from Bismarck. From June 4th to August both ships were in planned repairs and from in October 26th it was decided to send Tijger, Leuw, Renown, Repulse, Rotterdam, Ark Royal Formidable and Warspite to East Indies along with Cruisers 4 heavy cruisers, 6 light cruisers and 25 destroyers to East Indies since Japan started unusual activities on Eeast. In November 2nd whole squadron set sail to East Indies, In November 25th Japan declared war to UKNB and their allies. Next day Old dutch cruiser Sumatra run a ground at Island of Ulu and Japanese quickly captured it with codes, dutch crew havent burned them in time. In Novemberr 26th HrMS Panter with heavy cruiser Flander were engaged by IJN Kongo and IJN Mutsu (with Heavy cruisers Maya and Myoko): Engagement took place from 23:45 to 2:13, at 23:45, weather was awful and it happened near Palau Sanghihe. Kongo opened fire from 11 kilometers, Panter's crew spoted her minute after Kongo's shots, at 23:53 Panter recieved first 3 Hits at middle of a ship, 1 f the shells penetrated her belt and she started taking on water and her speed dropped from 31 kts to 29,7 kts. In 1:14 Mutsu Joined the fight, and 2 of Mutsu's Shells penetreted her belt at 3rd boiler room and disabeled 2 her boilers; and speed was decreased to 26,3 knots, Panter meanwhile hit Kongo didn't got any hit (since it was at Night and Dutch gunnery was poor at night while Japanese had exelent gunnery during the night), at 1:48 Shells from Kongo or Mutsu penetreted Panter's bow magazines and Panter suffured catastrophic explosion, as seemed from wreck she split in 2 parts. Battle of Wakatobi Although Panter was lost same day at November 30th Dutch broke Japanese codes and from now on knew that Japanese also broken their codes (but Japanese didn't knew it, so dutch used it as a advantage for desicive or semi-desicive battle, (also worth mentioning that at december 6th Dutch send to British Japanese plans on attcking Pearl Harbor so they can send it to Americans from there so Japanese couldn't find out that their codes were also Broken, But it'was too late and Washington recieved it 20 minutes before the attack, while Pearl Harbor recieved massage from Washington just 5 minutes before the attack. (yes it's complicated deal with it :D)), Japanese didn't knew that Dutch and British ships are going to NEI though [this battle need it's own article]. At December 4th Dutch-British Squadron arrived to Sarubaja and in December 8th day after Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a flagship of Spejk's 1sr Battlecruiser squadron (Tijger, Leuw, HMS Renown, HMS Repulse) during the battle Tijger sunk IJN Hiei (Hiei detonated after 35 minutes since start of the battle) and sunk heavy cruiser Haguro and Destroyer Kagero and Wakaba, while taking 16 hits, 5 to 356 mm to her superstracture, 7 356 and 2 203 mm hits on her hull, 5 of the shells bounced or not fully penetreted her (due of that fact that ship was at angle relitevely to incomming shells), 2 356 mm belts penetreated her belt between casamete and main belt and another penetreated main belt but didn't coused damage inside the citadel, and 3 last (one 356 mm and 2 203 mm) shells hit deck cousing fire. While meanwhile Leuw damaged Kongo (which was second in Japanese line, after Hiei (Hiei was flagshipof Japanese Fast Battleship squadron)) sunk light cruiser Kuma, and destroyers Nenohi, Mutsukaze and damaged IJN Fuso, Ise. Leuw took heaviest of the punch, 24 hits and 16 from Kongo, 2 from Fuso at her final and dramatic fight (again battle of Wakatobi deserves its own article so everything will be covered there). and rest from heavy cruisers. IJN Hiei (forward) and IJN Kongo firing at at HrMS Tijger and HrMS Leuw. After the battle both ships were in repairs in Surubaja, Tijger was in repairs for 2,5 moth while Leuw for 4 full moths. In 1942 Tijger was escorting convoys from India to Java, and in June 5th supported dutch landings on Borneo (Borneo was captured by Japanese in January 1942). From 1942 to 1944 both ships were escorting both Dutch and USN Carriers, Tijger was mostly escorting USS Enterprise. At start of 1943 Tijger along with Zwijger supported US Landings to Philippines In August 13rd 1943 near Philippines Tijger was attacked by 5 Japanese Kamikaze planes, she shotdown 4 of them, but 1 plane got her, plane crashed to turret B, B turret suffered little damage but parts of plane and splinters from explosion fly all over the place and heavily damaged her Bridge, 32 people were dead, Including Vice Admiral Jacob Van Kleij, He died from splinters hour and a half later, Damaged Tijger arrived to Sarabaja she went into repairs and Kleij was buried. [story about Kleij will be later on seperate article as well]. (yes war in Pacific here excelerate's much faster than in out timeline). Tijger was In Pearl Harbor when Operation Ten-Go happened (Yamato sunked USS North Corliana and heavily damaged USS Missouri, off Okinawa and Yamato run aground on Okinawa but then was gunned down by USS Iowa, Missouri, Massahusets, Colorado, Maryland... Should I count every battleship which were in Okinawa? ok Littirally all US Navy. In June 6th 1944 Leuw and Tijger was boambarding Normandy (there was also wome Dutch divisons in Normandy) and in September was supporting American-British-Dutch Army in operation Market garden. In December 7th (Ironically) 1944 Japan surrenders. So Germany Became main target for US Nuclear bombing Munchin and Hamburg was choosen for boambarding. In March 13th First city to bombed was Hamburg at 17th Munchin, overall 1,8 million people died, war ended in April 5 1945. Post War Sevice After the war Ships were send into reserves, In 1947 Dutch Fleet suffered to much budget cuts though off post war economy and In 1952 Tijgers were planned to sent to be scrpped but due of public and International public attention - Tijger and Leuw, It was hard to make sure dutch could preserve Tijger to begin with, some people who were interested donated to preserve her and her sister but Leuw was eventually sent to Scrapyard in 1953... Museum Tijger is located at Veemcate street Ijhaven channel she can be visited any day from 6:00 to 22:00. *(note after 1830 Belguim attempt of revolution, it was decided to give Belguim rights of autonamy, in 1832 Constitution was made where Netherlands and Belguim became United Kingdom Of Netherlans Belguim, with freedom of religon) Captains Tijger: 1913-1916 - Micheil Spejk 1916-1919 - Jacob Van Kleij 1919-1926 - Mark Dekker 1926-1929/1931-1933 - Albert De Haan 1933-1939 - Dirk Jaager 1939-1943 - Andries Van Leeuwen (died in 1943 with Jacob Van Kleij) 1943-1945 - Hiddie Coevorden 1945-1949 - Sven Heuvel Leuw: 1913-1915 - Mark Hens 1915-1920 - Albert Hein 1920-1924 - Hans Galen 1924-1926 - N/A 1926-1929 - N/A 1929-1936/1939-1944 1936-1937 -Ian Dekker 1944-1947 - N/A 1947-1953 - N/A Panter: 1914-1917 - Sam Coevorden 1917-1926 -N/A 1926-1932 - N/A 1932-1937 - N/A 1937-1941 - N/A Huge Thank you to TheBudgieAdmiral, Cerys, Dubsy102, LifeBeyondLiving, Dunk Master Flex and rest of Drydock and Denarmo's discord for help and support. Credits: Weebson - Author, writer. Cerys - writer. TheBudgieAdmiral - Writer. Dubsy102 - Historical consultant, Designer consultant. LifeBeyondLiving - Historical consultant, Designer consultant. Dunk Master Flex - Designer consultant.
  2. Blizzard____

    PUERTO RICO (work in progress)

    Ciao comandanti, ecco qui la mia recensione di puerto rico. battlecruiser tier 10 premium dalle molteplici qualità difensive e recentemente potenziato dalla wargaming. all'interno del video il gameplay su hotspot, l'analisi della nave, skill-moduli consigliati e qualche considerazione personale. il video è stato registrato a inizio mese quando ancora non conoscevamo gli eventi di fine anno che wg aveva in mente per consegnare questa nave; quindi, le mie considerazioni sulle modalità di acquisizione sono superate (niente acciao o punti ricerca) al momento la nave è piuttosto competitiva e certamente potrebbe piacere ai tantissimi giocatori di battleships del gioco; rimanendo infatti pur sempre un cruiser, l'unità statunitense risulta l'incrociatore più simile a una corazzata di tutto il gioco. se volete condividete il video, iscrivetevi al canale e se avete domande scrivete pure tra i commenti.
  3. 1MajorKoenig

    Dreadnought Era Appreciation Thread

    Fellow captains, I had the idea for this thread driving around in my A-HULL AMAGI and BAYERN - thinking how beautiful these ships are: this thread is for all of you who appreciate the Golden Age of Dreadmought battles to meet, discuss and exchange thoughts. While dreadnooughts are more of a niche product and a "filler" on the lower tiers in World of Warships it is the the true age of true Battleship vs Battleship clashes. A lillte more than 100 years ago the biggest clash of steel battleships happened during the Battle of Jutland. Huge battle lines of hundreds of shiny white-grey ships covered in black smoke with almost 100.000 sailors on board fought this climatic battle. Even if the game is slowly moving more and more away from these good old days there are some Dreadnought Era ships left in the game. This thread is to appreciate them, discuss about everything about Dreadnought era ships in this game and in reality and more. And it is for every Gentleman who is not afraid to duke it out the old way - even if it means to go with an A-Hull against WW2 Technology :-) LIST OF APPRECIATED DREADNOUGHT ERA SHIPS IN WOWS (please let me know the ones I forgot :-)): IJN / JAPAN: Chikuma Kawachi Myogi - STOCK Ishizuchi Kongo - STOCK (removed in 0.5.11) Fuso - STOCK (removed) Mutsu Ashitaka Nagato - STOCK (removed in 0.6.0) Amagi - STOCK (removed in 0.6.0) Umikaze USN / UNITED STATES: Albany Chester St.Louis South Carolina Wyoming- STOCK Arkansas Beta West Virgina Colorado STOCK (removed) Sampson HSF / IMPERIAL GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET: Dresden Emden Kolberg Karlsruhe / Cöln Nassau König Albert Bayern - STOCK V-25 G-101 V-170 ROYAL NAVY / GREAT BRITAIN: Weymouth Caledon Danae Bellerophon Dreadnought (announced) Orion (close at least) Iron Duke (well... still a Little dreadnought'ish...) TSARIST RUSSIA: Imperator Nikolai I. Diana Bogatyr Aurora Oleg Please sign up if you you like these old ships in reality or in World of Warships and enjoy the breath of nostalgia they bring with them :-) 1MajorKoenig 506_Mephisto _Kyoshi Admiral_Bing anve8004 aquiles7389 atomskytten Babylon_218 Battleship_Nagato BrotherSurplice Caulton Comodore_Allande Cpt_Cowper_Coles darkstar73 Fat_Maniac GeorgeT1012_gt Getzamatic GhostRider_24 Gnirf Herwarth HMS_Worcester josykay Kevbar LadyJess Leo_Apollo11 Procrastes puxflacet Robber_Baron sharpie65 Tempest_V_ theOneNL Verence196 Vizeadmiral_R_Scheer vontrox VulkanNo1 Webley_Mark
  4. Hello fellow captains. this thread is ported (and improved) from my thread on the german forum (https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/123362-japanische-schlachtschiffe-und-schlachtkreuzer/) Please excuse any mistakes in grammar or spelling because english is not my native language. My goal was to clean up the total mess that is called: "The IJN Battleship tech tree". A tree where you happily jump from Battleship to Battlecruiser and back. Therefore these were my goals I wanted to achieve: A new Tech Tree “Battleships” A new Tech Tree “Battlecruisers” All ships stay on their Tiers but move to their respected tree. All ships will be named correctly. That means Battleships will be named after japanese provinces and Battlecruisers will be named after mountains. I will not touch Premium Ships at all. Now for a few rules: Every ship in the new tree should make sense. It should not be straight OP (or too weak) and it should work with the other ships in the tree for a pleasant playthrough. Paperships are allowed Fantasy ships are allowed as long as they make sense and stick to the “IJN way”. Lend Lease, captured or bought ships from other nations are allowed if they make sense. So are you ready? Here we go. Overview: First let’s take a look how the Tree would look after the redesign without any changes or additions: Old Tree Battleship Tree Battlecruiser Tree Kawachi Kawachi Myogi Myogi Kongo Kongo Fuso Fuso Nagato Nagato Amagi Amagi Izumo Izumo Yamato Yamato Now let’s take a look at the same Tree but with the new ships added: Battleship Tree Battlecruiser Tree Kawachi -------------------------- Tsushima Myogi Owari Kongo Fuso Ontake Nagato Hotakadake Tosa Amagi Izumo Ryokami Yamato Fuji Battleships: T4 Tsushima (Modified Helgoland Class): Displacement: 24.700t Speed: 21knt With T4 we need our first new Battleship and we run straight into a problem. The japanese didn’t focus that much on Battleships between Kawachi and Fuso and I couldn’t find much that would fit on Tier 4. But luckily our forum user Takemikazuchi_1121 came up with a great idea: According to the Treaty of Versailles it was decided that the german Battleship SMS Oldenburg (a Helgoland Class which is effectively a better Nassau) should be surrender to the japanese. In reality the japanese never wanted the ship and sold it for scraping. In our alternativ version the IJN kept the ship, integrated it into their fleet and refited it with japanese traits. That includes a new target system for better dispersion of the guns. The gun range was increased and a catapult was mounted on one of the turrets for a seaplane. So that the ship would work as an upgraded Nassau on T4. The name of course is in honor of the famous naval battle at the Tsushima strait but it also stays true to the japanese system of Battleships carrying names of provinces. T5 Owari (Design A-55) Displacement: 27.200t Speed: 23knt At Tier 5 we need another new ship because Kongo will be moved to the Battlecruiser tree. The replacement is the Shipdesign A-55 This ship looks familiar? It looks like a Fuso? You are correct - well sort of. You see this is an early version of Fuso with 305mm guns instead of the 356mm on the “normal” Fuso. It’s also slower with a top speed of only 23 knt and with a displacement of 23.000 tonnes it’s also lighter than Fuso. T8 Tosa Displacement: 44.200t Speed: 27knt Amagi gone - hello Tosa. Both ships are very similar but Tosa is in fact the Battleship version with improved armour but also reduced speed. And that’s it already for the Battleships. Now for Part 2 Battlecruisers T6 Ontake (Design O) Displacement: 46.000t (less due to ingame changes) Speed: 37knt So T6. Let’s see what we can use here. How about the Design Projekt O: What? 18” Guns are stupid on Tier 6? You are absolutely correct, we can’t use these guns. But how about the idea that the ship was built but japan didn’t have the guns ready yet for this ship (looking at you Scharnhorst class). So lets put smaller guns on it. And there is a very japanese gun that might fit: The 41 cm/45 3rd Year Type. With only 6 of these guns I think we could make this ship fit on T6. Espacially because with these huge guns and the ludicrous speed of 37knt the armor is pretty much non existent. It might also be an option to use the crappier shells of Mutsu. T7 Hotakadake (Design Z) Displacement: 49.500 Speed: 35knt T7 also needs a new ship and here I would use Design Project Z. The ship is armed with 10x16” guns just like Amagi but with a completely different 2x 3+2 turret arrangement. Furthermore that’s a long ship. Amagi was ~250m long. That thing adds 40m for ~290m in length. And the armor is not as good as Amagi. It’s still very fast though - perfect for a Battlecruiser T9 Ryokami (Design I/J) Displacement: 50.000t (54.000t) Speed: 30knt Now let’s go crazy. The Izumo is not the best example of good WG ideas. So let me show you my not so well thought through Fan-Fiction moment. Lets meet Design Projekt I/J - because the Type 13 Design didn’t provide enough crazy ideas yet.. I just love the design of that ship. But I think we need a lot of famous russian balance for that one. T10 Fuji (Design A-140/J3) Displacement: 58.400t Speed: 28knt (maybe with an engine upgrade ~30knt) Last but not least T10 Looks like a Yamato? Look again. It might be based on the design that later became the biggest Battleship in history but this bugger is no Yamato. First you might notice that this design has 4 turrets. NO! - put your pitchforks away and calm down! These are NOT Yamato guns. They are still only 16” caliber guns and not the 18” monsters of Yamato. Also its way way way lighter with only 58.000t compared to 72.000t of Yamato. The idea in fact was to bring a true “small Yamato” as a battlecruiser and not Yoshino as a supercruiser. You tell me if I succeeded because that’s it for my idea of a double japanese Battleship/Battlecruiser line.
  5. SamuraiShakaViking


    Trying a constructive suggestion. ( Borrowing from NoZoups recommendations. Split lines in relevant tech trees, to make battlecruisers a grindable branch line. There's no shortage of historical actual real ships for wows time frame. (why need NTC research bureau wot (waste of time) and presume subs will be new line too. Bizarre to regress (backwards) with NTC , when they should grow expand and modernise the game horizontal ly. And improve quality of life, eg UI issues etc Be cool to try bring back some pertinent historical relevance too. (Ref to drachinifel) If they gonna shake up the entire game further, even as cv rework becomes "years of the cv" re- rework of a reworked rework, might as well shake rattle n roll it up further good n proper... That's all folks.
  6. So me and my friend (he doesn't have forum account here, but he's in reddit u/Mecie_Napoleon) worked down with our battlecruiser and later fast battleship for Dutch Navy or Royal Navy of United Kingdom of Netherlands (in this alternative history Belgium revolution never happened and since Netherlands were completely neutral during Napoleonic wars they didn't lose they're colonies in South Africa (Boer states); This ship is highly based on Ishizuchi/Kongou and was actually Dutch reply to IJN Kongou since Netherlands and Japan are rivals (even in our life Japan was real threat to Netherlands since Dutch east indies were, well, obviously Dutch, tho). Tijger in 1916 (2 months after Battle of Jutland) Tijger in 1927 General characteristics. Keel length 205 meters Length of deck 220 meters (227 in 1927) Beam 30.5 meters. Draught 9.7 meters Normal displacement 29 000 tonns (30 000 tonns in 1927) Deep load displacement 33 000 tonns (35 000 tonns in 1927) Armaments Main battery 8*2 356 mm (14") MK I (gun based on Japanese 41st year type). Secondary battery 16 152 mm (6") mm MK IX. 8*4 100 mm dual purpose guns (1927) Anti aircraft 8 76 (3") anti-zepelinn (1913-1927) 20 dual and/or quad mounted (depends on the year and place of dislocation of the ship) 40 mm boffors. (1938). 18 20 mm orlicons (1936). Armor Main belt 229 mm (9"). Aft and Bow belts - 76 mm (3") Underwater belt - 76 mm (3") Casimate belt - 152 mm (6") Citadel armor - 51 mm and was increased to 76 mm. (turtle pack) Total deck armor - 95 mm (1913-1927) 131 mm (1927). Propulsion 30 Yarrow boilers with total power of 76 000 H.P (boilers were replaced with new Yarrow MK III boilers (fictional boilers model) with total 130 000 H.P in 1927) 4 Parson steam turbines. Speed - 25.4 knots (sea trial max 26.8 knots) 31.3 knots (1927) Range - 7000 miles on 14 knots. Crew - 1580 people and 1248 people in 1927 (1648 people at WW2) Ships Tijger - Lunched in Portsmouth in June 6 1912, commissioned in 12 April 1913. Fate Decommissioned in 1952 preserved as a museum. Leeowe - Lunched in Portsmouth in June 20 June 1912, commissioned in 26 April 1913, Decommissioned in 1953, preserved as a museum in Singapore than in Youkosuko (Japan, 2003) Panter - Lunched in 9 May 1913 in Rotterdam , commissioned in June 1914, sunked in April 15 1943 by IJN Musashi during first battle of Guinea. Leopard - wasn't finished, war began, when Germans acupied United Kingdom of Netherlands they planned to finished it but they abonden their plans. In 1923 when Netherlands signed Washington Naval treaty it was desided to build ship to the aircraft carrier - De Zeven Provincen, launched in july 1927 in Amsterdam.
  7. dubsy1021

    RN Battlecruiser Tree

    So I have been thinking recently about how to do a Royal Navy battlecruiser tree, and how their performance would be, and I've come to some ideas. So firstly, general performance. I think the main 'gimmick' would be basing their hull performance closer to a cruiser than a battleship. This would reflect their origin as a cruiser killer based off of an armoured cruiser type hull. So what do I mean by this? Firstly, better rudder shift. This allows them to stay closer to the battle, in tune with their speed, and dodge torpedoes, staying alive. Secondly, better concealment, again allowing a closer presence. This would allow them to become more orientated around cruiser support, as opposed to a more long range traditional BB role. The trade off is of course weakness to battleship fire and probably lower HP So how would I do the tiers? Well, start at tier 3. HMS Invincible is a fairly obvious pick. The first battlecruiser. Compared to the Bellerophon, you sacrifice armour and a turret for speed, along with the previous features I mentioned. Interestingly, despite 1 fewer turrets, the ship allows LIMITED cross deck firing, so it is possible to get an 8 gun broadside (similar to the Kaiser, if any of you are familiar with that ship). Another possibility is the Indefatigable class, which was very similar. Basically it allowed better cross deck firing angles, and had other slight improvements. HMS Inflexible, an Invincible class Tier 4 is where things get a little interesting with my choices. Some people seem to be of the opinion that there should only be 1 13.5 inch BC, with the rather weak 6 gun 15 inch Renown at T5 then a merger, or something similar. However, I suggest sticking with 13.5 inchers from 4 to 5. This follows the battleship precendant, and stays with the theme of a smaller main armament and less armour for more speed compared to the same tier British battleship. So the lower pick would be Lion. This class were the first 13.5 inch battlecruisers, with an improved speed and thicker armour. HMS Lion Then at tier 5, HMS Tiger. This ship is very comparable to the Kongos, both being improved Lions (fun fact the first Kongo was built in Britain). It has far better rear firing angles for the mid turret (on Lion there's a second superstructure obstructing firing, Tiger was refitted to have full rear firing - this presents an interesting hull upgrade option). It also had 6 inch secondaries rather than 4 inch, and is slightly faster. Basically, it is to the Lions as the Iron Dukes are to the Orions. Comparing it to the Kongo, I am aware this is a potential issue for some people. Smaller guns and slower speed. However, I disagree. Firstly, the speed is only 2kn slower. Secondly, the armour is thicker on Tiger. Finally, the 13.5 inch is very comparable to the Vickers 14 incher. The 13.5 is certainly a little worse, however not significantly, and its higher trajectory makes it more effective against deck armour, a considerable advantage at this tier when ships do not have very thick decks. Also, I think it would be reasonable to give the ship a WWII refit. This could vary in significance a lot. The minimum would be better AA, like the German BBs of this tier. It could extend further though. The Kongos were refitted with better armour and better boilers giving a higher top speed. Why not give the Tiger a speed boost? It's a reasonable upgrade. The most outlandish possibility is replacing the 13.5 inch guns with 14 inch guns as fitted to the KGVs. The 14 inch gun was actually designed to fit in the 13.5 inch mounts, interestingly, so it does have some basis in reality and could quite possibly have happened if the ship had stuck around. HMS Tiger, showing the better firing angles on the rear turret Moving on, Renown at tier 6. A faster Revenge class with 6 15 inch guns, and hideously thin armour. A 6 inch thick belt. This thing is a real glass cannon. But at 32 knots, with decent firing angles and less of a reliance on broadsiding (2/3 of main guns are forward firing), it should be OK. No trouble on AA, the Renown got right through WWII so a decent armament got on, along with some neat secondary 4.5 inchers and the octopoidal superstructure. HMS Renown in refitted condition Tier 7 is where I think the line should merge back in with the BBs. This tier would have the final battlecruiser. Hood as a premium creates an issue, but I have a solution. The original Admiral class design. This would mean a very fast ship with 32kn +. The Admiral had a much better belt than Renown, with 12 inches at 12 degrees. This is actually comparable to the Iowa at close ranges (lesser angle, but this has little effect at close range), so perfectly well protected. The deck armour is really not anything to write home about, but the ship is intended to fight at closer ranges, so this shouldn't be a giant issue. The AA could be modelled off of Hood, or given a more generous WWII refit. The ship would look very similar to Hood, though probably sitting a little higher in the water. HMS Hood. The Admiral would look very similar. The reason for a Tier 7 merge is twofold. Firstly, I cannot think of a T8. Secondly, from the KGV and beyond, the battleships get faster and make the idea of a battlecruiser a bit obsolete. However, if a candidate for T8 can be found, and is used (likely one of the worse designs from the studies that led to the G3s and N3s), the T9 would probably be a G3, with a modernised AA set up. This is a fast, well armoured and fairly well armed ship, a true fast battleship, so I personally would not really recommend it, it would not fit with the line well and be too similar to the Lion. So what are people's thoughts on my suggestions?
  8. Zdravím, Tahle věc mi už nějakou chvíli kvasí v hlavě. V poslední době se ve hře objevuje čím dál tím více bitevních křižníků. Popravdě, podle mě je už teď ve hře dostatek lodí s charakteristikami někde mezi křižníky a bitevními loděmi, že je na čase separovat je jako samostatnou classu + vytvořit pro ně extra vývojové větve tam kde je to možné - což minimálně v případě DKM a RN možné určitě je. Osobně bych si do třídy "bitevních křižníků" dovolil zahrnout i panzerschiffe (třída Deutchland a její plánovaný nástupce Kreuzer P) a americký "velký křižník" Alaska - prostě cokoliv co stojí někde mezi křižníky a bitevními loďmi a zároveň není tak úplně ani jedno z toho. A jelikož DKM byla ve hře dříve než RN, dovolil bych si začít návrhem větve bitevních křižníků Deutches Kriegsmarine (resp. Kaiserliche Marine v případě nižších tierů). Pusťme se tedy do toho: Tier IV: S.M.S. Blücher První loď v linii vlastně není tak úplně bitevní křižník, ale v kontextu nižších tierů tuto definici dostatečně naplňuje. Navržený jako reakce na britské bitevní křižníky třídy Invincible se jednalo o poměrně dobře pancéřovaný chráněný křižník se silnou hlavní baterií tvořenou dvanácti 210mm děly v šesti věžích (jedna na přídi, jedna na zádi, dvě po každém boku, podobně jako na S.M.S. Nassau). Pancéřový pás dosahoval maximální síly 180mm, sekundární baterie byla tvořena početnými děly ráže 150 a 88 mm. Konstrukční rychlost byla 25,4 uzlů. Obecně tedy charakteristiky pěkně uprostřed mezi bitevními loďmi a křižníky na tieru IV. Tier V: S.M.S. Von Der Tann První skutečný bitevní křižník německého námořnictva byl vyzbrojen baterií osmi 28cm děl v podobné "cikcak" konfiguraci jako věže bitevní lodi Kaiser, oproti tehdejším britským bitevním křižníkům obětujícím pancíř za účelem maximalizace palebné síly a rychlosti se jednalo o spíše slaběji vyzbrojenou ale relativně dobře pancéřovanou loď (pancéřový pás až 250mm) s nijak extrémně vynikající, ale relativně rozumnou úrovní mobility (max. rychlost cca 27,5 uzlů). Sekundární výzbroj byla stále tvořena 150mm děly v kasematách a 88mm dvouúčelovými děly na palubě. Tier VI: DKM Deutchland Starší sestra lodi Graf Spee, která je všem hráčům WoWS dobře známá už dva roky. Jednalo se o naplnění omezení daných Versailleskou dohodou, kdy byl výtlak lodí omezen na 10000 tun a ráže děl na 280mm. V kontextu herní linie jde o bod, kdy se filozofie vývojové větve přesouvá od těžce pancéřovaných lodí 1. sv. války k lehkým, vysoce mobilním bitevním křižníkům určeným k napadání nepřátelských konvojů a lehčích lodí taktikou "udeř a uteč". Po stránce pancéřování, výzbroje a mobility prakticky totožná s Graf Spee, lišila se jen jinou konstrukcí nástavby a po modernizaci tzv. "atlantickou přídí" (v kontextu hry možno jako design "B" trupu) + postupně modernizovanou lehkou protiletadlovou baterií. Tier VII: Kreuzer P Tady už začínají papírové designy. Já vím, já vím, málokdo je má rád, ale bez nich se leckterá linka prostě nedá postavit, navíc v případě DKM se jednalo o celou řadu různých designů lodí všemožných typů v rámci "plánu Z" a většina z nich byla dost detailně zpracovaná. Kreuzer P byl navržený jako třída dvanácti jednotek a jednalo se o nástupce třídy Deutchland. Hlavní baterie byla ve stejné konfiguraci 2x3 jako u Deutchlandů, ale namísto starých SK C/28 se jednalo o modernější SK C/34 známé z třídy Scharnhorst (první tři lodi měly dokonce dostat přímo zbraně z lodí Scharnhorst a Gneisenau po jejich plánovaném přezbrojení na 380mm baterii). Sekundární baterie měla být oproti Deutchlandům soustředěna do dvou věží v superpozici nad věžemi hlavní baterie a torpédomety byly redukovány na 2x3 a přesunuty doprostřed lodi. Tier VIII: Schlachtkreuzer O (1) Návrh bitevního křižníku určeného k samostatným operacím, jednalo se o poměrně velkkou loď vyzbrojenou hlavní baterií ve třech věžích. Co se výzbroje týče objevilo se postupně několik návrhů s ráží děl od 280 do 380mm a předpokládanou maximální rychlostí až 35 uzlů. Několik z těchto návrhů jsem vybral jako zástupce posledních tří tierů s postupně sílící výzbrojí. Na tieru VIII by byl adekvátní návrh lodi s lehkým pancéřováním (pás max. 190mm) a výzbrojí tří věží po třech dělech ráže 280mm doplněnou sekundární baterií ráže 150mm, dvouúčelovými děly ráže 105mm a dvěmi třírannými torpédomety Tier IX: Schlachtkreuzer O (2) Jako přirozená protiváha lodí Kronstadt a Alaska by se nabízela verze návrhu třídy O vyzbrojená hlavní baterií děl SK C/39 ráže 305mm. Jednalo se o plánovanou výzbroj budoucích bitevních křižníků, jejíž vývoj byl ukončen po tom, co bylo rozhodnuto vyzbrojit je děly ráže 38cm použitými na třídě Bismarck. V kontextu hry by asi nejlepší volbou byla volitelná konfigurace, buď 3x3 305mm děla nebo 3x2 380mm děla se stejnou penetrací, poškozením, úsťovou rychlostí a dalšími parametry vázanými na střelu samoznou jako u lodí Gneisenau a Bismarck, ale s předvídatelnějším rozptylným obrazcem za cenu kratšího dostřelu +rychlostí nabíjení optimalizovanou pro IX. tier. Tier X: Schlachtkreuzer O+ Tady se musím přiznat, úplně vymyšlený design na bázi Schlachtkreuzer O. Na druhou stranu totéž se dá říct o Grosser Kurfürst, République, Conqueror, a vůbec spousta tier X lodí s jen hrstkou čestných vyjímek, takže bych v tom pro účel hry neviděl problém. Jednalo by se o design s pancířem srovnatelným s Schlachtkreuzer O vyzbrojený baterií devíti 380mm děl ve třech věžích Herní styl: Společnou vlastností většiny německých bitevních křižníků byla poměrně silná sekundární baterie děl ráže 150mm, což mě přivedlo na myšlenku možnosti konfigurovat lodi tak, aby bylo možno tuto vlastnost s výhodou využít. Nemluvím teď o dostřelu na úrovni francouzských a německých bitevních lodí, ale o dostatečně dlouhém dostřelu tak, aby se vyplatilo investovat do jejího posílení pro boj zblízka. Zároveň pro ty, kdo preferují možnost obrany před nepřátelskými letadly by u vyšších tierů mohl být k dispozici alternativní "C" trup, který by obětoval dostřel sekundární baterie (a někdy i přímo měnil "hladinové" zbraně za dvouúčelové) pro posílení protiletadlové výzbroje. Nakonec, můj osobní návrh ikony pro označení bitevních křižníků:
  9. So, first of all: Hello and please excuse my english, as well as any inevitable typos below. It's not my 1st language, but i believe it's enough to get the message around, so let's get to the point: This topic is basically translation of my previous, similar one in czech forums. I may or may not add or change some bit here and there, but the general message is basically the same for both of those topics. This is just to spread the message a bit further. I have been thinking about this thing for some time now: In recent time there seems to be increasing number of ships in WoWs which one might call "battlecruisers". Truth be told, i believe even now there is enough ships with characteristics somewhere between cruisers and battleships to classify them under separate category and add their own tech branches where possible - which i believe might be for the DKM and RN trees. Personally i would classify as "battlecruisers" every ship, which combines characteristics from both classes, be it german "Pocket battleships" or american "Large Cruisers" of the Alaska-class. Also, ships which were technically battlecruisers but in effect were not really much different drom fast battleships (like Kongo, Eitel Friedrich, Hood or Amagi) would not be included in the battlecruiser class for ballance and tech tree continuity purposes. And since DKM tech tree is older than the Royal Navy one, i would like to present my suggestion for the battlecruiser line of the Deutches Kriegsmarine (or Kaiserliche Marine for the lower tiers), so let's get to it: Tier IV: S.M.S. Blücher First ship of the branch is not actually battlecruiser per se, but among the low tier ships it fits the definition well enough: Designed as counterpart to british Invincible-class battlecruisers, the Blücher was the last protected cruiser of german navy armed with twelve 210mm guns in six turrets (one fore, one aft, 2+2 wing turrets, much like the Nassau), secondary battery of numerous 150mm and 88mm guns and quite reasonable armor, with belt thickness up to 180mm. Its max speed was 25,4 knots. Those characteristics all fit pretty well between cruisers and battleships of tier IV. Tier V: S.M.S. Von Der Tann First proper battlecruiser of the german navy. It was armed by 8 280mm guns arranged in "zigzag" configuration, much like the german battleship Kaiser. In comparison to british idea of battlecruiser, which sacrificed armour to max out speed and firepower, german battlecruisers had a bit lighter armament, but considerable amount of armor (belt thickness up to 250mm) with not exactly stellar, but quite reasonable max speed of 27,5 knots. Secondary armament was still composed of 150mm and 88mm guns mounted in casemates and dual purpose mounts respectively. Tier VI: DKM Deutchland The older sister of Graf Spee, which is well known to WoWs community for at least two years now. It was built to fulfill the versailles treaty limits, which limited new german ships to 10000 tons of displacement and their main battery armament to 11". In WoWs, Deutchland would mark the point where the design philosophy would shift from heavily armored ships of the 1st world war to highly mobile commerce raiders and cruiser hunters of World War 2, best suited for the "hit and run" tactics. Armor and armament-wise, Deutchland was basically identical to Graf Spee and differed mostly visually by different superstructure design and later after its modernisation, bu the "atlantic bow" (in-game this might reflect on B-hull) + throughout the war steadily upgraded light AA armament. Tier VII: Kreuzer P Here we actually start with the "paper designs", althrough many of those designs were actually approved for construction and some ships even laid down as part of the "plan Z" fleet, which was supposed to challenge Royal Navy on equal terms. Some people might not like the paper ships, but sometimes you can't actually build whole tree without them and as i said some of those were in really advanced stage of development, so moving on: Kreuzer P was supposed to be twelve unit class of pocket battleships designed as successors to the Deutchlands, sharing the same main battery configuration of two 280mm triplets, but instead of the older SK C/28 guns these ships were supposed to carry the more modern SK C/34 of the Scharnhorst-class, quite literally for the first three ships planned, which were supposed to be armed by guns salvaged from the two light battleships during their scheduled refit with twin 380mm turrets. Secondary battery was to be concentrated to two turrets located in superposition to the main battery. Torpedo armament was to be reduced to two three-barreled launchers about in the middle of the hull's length. Tier VIII: Schlachtkreuzer O (1) Proposed battlecruiser designed for independent commerce-raiding operations was to be large ship with main battery composed of three gun turrets, relatively light armour and design speed of up to 35 knots. Several designs were suggested, with main armament consisting of guns ranging from 280 to 380mm. Several of those designs could fit as the last three tiers of this tech branch, with increasingly more powerful armament: For tier VIII, the most adequate would be one of the first designs armed by 9 280mm guns in three-gun turrets, 150mm secondary battery, 105mm DP guns and two three-barreled torpedo launchers. Tier IX: Schlachtkreuzer O (2) As natural counterballance to Kronstadt and Alaska, tier IX would be occupied by O-class design armed by main battery of 9 305mm SK C/39 guns. This was supposed to be the main armament of german Z-plan battlecruisers, before its development was suspended in favor of using 380mm guns already in production for the Scharnhorst-class and Bismarck-class battleships. In WoWs, best choice could be optional gun loadout of either 3x3 305mm guns or 3x2 380mm guns, which would be in shell performance to Bismarck, but with more predictable dispersion pattern, but shorter main battery range and reload speed optimized for tier IX. Tier X: Schlachtkreuzer O+ Here i must admit, this one would be fabricated design along the lines of O-class, but considering many (not just) tier X ships already in-game are complete fabrications, including Grosser Kurfürst, République or Conqueror, i don't see that big of a problem in this aspect. This would be slightly enlarged O-class design with the same almost cruiser-lever armor, armed by 9 380mm guns in three turrets. Expected play style: Společnou vlastností většiny německých bitevních křižníků byla poměrně silná sekundární baterie děl ráže 150mm, což mě přivedlo na myšlenku možnosti konfigurovat lodi tak, aby bylo možno tuto vlastnost s výhodou využít. Nemluvím teď o dostřelu na úrovni francouzských a německých bitevních lodí, ale o dostatečně dlouhém dostřelu tak, aby se vyplatilo investovat do jejího posílení pro boj zblízka. Zároveň pro ty, kdo preferují možnost obrany před nepřátelskými letadly by u vyšších tierů mohl být k dispozici alternativní "C" trup, který by obětoval dostřel sekundární baterie (a někdy i přímo měnil "hladinové" zbraně za dvouúčelové) pro posílení protiletadlové výzbroje. The common reccuring theme of most german battlecruiser designs was powerful secondary battery consisting of 150mm guns, which lead me to idea for these ships to be configured in a way where the player could build on this feature and in close-range brawls use those guns to his advantage. Now, i'm not talking about the secondary range on par with German or French battleships, but slightly greater range, which, if the player would invest the required captain skills, could enable him to effectively use those guns. At the same time, player who would chose not to emphasise on his ship's secondary surface armament and would actually prefer to have more reliable means to defend himself agains enemy carrier groups could use the optional "C Hull" available on mid-to-high tier ships, which would sacrifice the secondary gun range (and in some cases even exchange "surface" gun mounts for dual purpose or dedicated AA) to improve the performance of the AA battery. The last suggestion for now, my idea of "battlecruiser" class icon: 
  10. Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel

    Ishizuchi - Is she worth it?

    Disliked ship guide #1: Ishizuchi- Should I buy her or get some premium Camo instead? At a Glance: IJN Tier 4 1915 British concept Battlecruiser, capable of good top speed and surprising maneuverability Most similar to Kongo in play-style, largest differences being 1 extra turret, faster reload and much less range Strongly utilises the Battlecruiser concept, moreso than Kongo. This means sticking with cruisers or using islands for cover is more viable/less cowardly than in Kongo or the Moggy. Great credit farm, a good match will net you well over 200k profit. Available in-store or in-game for doubloons, for £9, 'cos convenience is the age we live in! First - An Opinion I was very put off from buying this paper ship for a long time, in part due to bad reviews related mostly to her pre-buff stats. But being a stock Kongo lover (yes, really! I love how A Hull looked pre 5.11...so British!) I took the plunge and bought Ishizuchi. To date, I've had some of my best BB battles in her, including a kraken, two confederates and regular damage exceeding 100k. Did I mention I only bought her yesterday? So I do well with her, we get it. But to be honest I felt I should post my feelings here not to show how 'good' she is, but to show why I don't feel her shortcomings really hamper gameplay if played right. Still being a noob myself with her I know i'm not qualified enough to say 'Buy!', but jesus. I havn't had as much fun in a Battleship since I discovered Kongo. Seriously, I love this ship. And here's why for both newcomers and veterans of the game: The good: She has just enough armour to bounce a lot of shot when angled, enough speed to chase other BBs (or indeed, to escape their wrath) and enough alpha firepower to seriously put down hurt on anyone at similar tier. HE seems pretty atomic too; I lit a South Carolina up a good 7 or 8 times in a row, making HE very feasible on her. Guns have the fastest reload and best HE for a battleship at this tier - even faster than Kaiser. Is one of only five (including Arizona) Battleships in the entire game which can fire 6 shots directly astern. Favourable matchmaking; you'll see nothing above tier 5's in this. The price of 2.5k doubloons is very good imo. It was this or prem camo for North Carolina or Iowa (hence the title)...and I am seriously happy with this choice, despite my love for NC. Amazing secondaries for the tier and can lay down more volume of secondary fire than most other ships she'll come across. I always hated that I had to upgrade Wyoming or Kongo and lose those ace secondary guns. Now I have a ship which doesn't require that I do that. They can go up to 4.2km and there are 22 of the buggers; that's more than Montana, a tier 10! They're also high calibre, with most being 6inch. She counters Kaiser, Nassau and Konig's armour well, mostly due to the high damage HE (over 30% at 5600dmg) she can spit into their superstructure. This was a very big selling point for me. She could be described as a lower tier Scharnhorst; great Cruiser Killer with her speed and fast reloading AP. Great Turning circle for such a long ship; not Kriegsmarine dreadnought level, but better than the vast majority of Japanese vessels. Can defeat Myogi in a 1v1 with ease. You are also the only other Battleship below tier 5 which can give chase to Myogi. Is BEAUTIFUL. Harks back to the days of Britain's Battlecruisers. You won't find a better looking BC in the game until Hood joins us. The camo which comes with her is also lovely. Being built in Britain means 'this one can really turn!' Warspite fans will feel right at home with her maneuverability. The ugly: She has awful concealment, even worse range (13km) and unthinkably bad AA. But what do you expect? This is Tier 4...She actually has very good range and concealment now! Armour can be soft from plunging fire, and of course she shares the Japanese characteristic of short repair party immunity; making intelligent consumable use all the more vital. Suffers from the same armour issues as Kongo, ie easy to citadel if you are stupid enough to give your broadside to anyone with 12inch guns or above. Can only mount two upgrades. I know this is normal at T4, but this certainly doesn't help if you want to supercharge her beyond default config. CVs WILL target you if they can. Her lack of AA is known by any experienced carrier player. Her Battlecruiser armour won't last long against prolonged BB contact. However, when angled it can become quite potent. Captain Skills (based on 13 points captain; I'm using a brand new captain on mine but would guess these would work well) - Basic Fire Training (for Secondary buff) - Turret Traverse (for brawling) - Torp vigilance (for dancing with DDs) - Advanced Fire Training (for Secondary buff) - Superintendent (for extra heal; when you lose HP in this ship, it happens hard and fast) - I'd also consider Pyromanic (now called Demolition Expert) if you don't plan on using AFT, as this ship spits fire with the tenacity of a dragon. Upgrades - Slot 1: Main Battery 1 (obviously, as you have 5 turrets to get knocked out!) - Slot 2: Damage Control Systems 1 (it's a large target...and a Japanese one at that. Expect fire.) Verdict If you use her like a Cruiser, you'll do well. Use her like a BB and you *might* do well. I've had a few brawls/long range duels (including a 1km scrap with two Kaisers...in which my slightly superior secondaries and alpha damage killed one and severely damaged the other!); I am surprised by how well she carries herself when toe to toe with the big boys in general. She can hold her own against other Tier 4 BBs quite easily if angled and used right; definitely better than Myogi can, at any rate. So for those on the fence, I say; spend £8 or whatever she is (I bought her in-game) if you enjoy Kongo. If however, the Battlecruiser concept gets you killed within 5 minutes of battle, steer well clear. She needs to be treated like the hybrid she is! She has the highest HE alpha damage of any ship at this tier, and can be a real pain for cruisers if loading AP due to her fast reload.
  11. FrankvC_Jr

    IJN BB and BC tree

    Firstly the intro Im a spanish guy (and i already apologize for bad english) who loves the IJN BCs and 8 8 fleet plan So i wanted the Ashitaka and Kii Sadly my wallet cant take them, at least for now I have done 3 topics regarding buffs and improvements to the Eugen and the Kii plus a cry post on the Ashitaka You can check them here if you dare reading in Spanish Sadly you will probably dont catch the jokes Eugen topic Kii Ashitaka Now the problem As i said, i want to make a full tree of IJN BB and BC starting in the Kawa and then from tier 4 upwards the line will be splitted https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10SkC-pjMCGE2Xta92yDBOqQoOwkjuwr0z2puWwACDPc I hope the link works I will use Fuso preliminar for the “Fuso prot” spot Yamashiro 39 is a placeholder, same as Hiei 42 The Owari is used cause Kii is premium The Yamato prot aka Izumo could be changed thus i prefer to say that rather than the ingame one Finally i want to say than this is difficult and a bit time limited cause my real life status (university problems) I really hope you all who read this have a nice day and if some of you who have the ships i ask, i would like you to help me Again, sry for bad english
  12. Centurion_1711

    British Battlecruisers

    Hi all, I know we haven't even got the British Battleship tree yet, but I was thinking about some of the Battlecruisers that Britain designed. I'm not sure on their tiers, so i'll just list a few that could be part of a split line. Invincible class: Lion class: Courageous class: Renown class: G3 class: Thanks for reading, I hope the post wasn't too long (definitely felt that way ) Feel free to list any other ships that I may have missed, or could work in this line.
  13. 1MajorKoenig

    SMS Lützow - a good Premium Ship :-)

    Historical Background: SMS Lützow was the second Derfflinger class and while she was commissioned into the High Seas Fleet in August 1915 it was not until end of February 1916 that she became operational due to damages during her trials. SMS Lützow took part took part in the bombardment of Yarmouth and Lowestoft but her tragic moment of glory came as the flagship of the victorious Scouting Forces at the battle of Jutland on 31-May-1916. Her unit successfully spotted and engaged the numerical superior British Battlecruiser forces first despite a range disadvantage and blew up two of the British Capital ships in quick succession, “HMS Indefatigable” and “HMS Queen Mary”. A third British battlecruiser “HMS Invincible” exploded about 2h later under the fire of the German battlecruisers which in return received substantial punishment from the entire British battlefleet. Lützow suffered multiple underwater hits including hits to the forward torpedo room and attempted to withdraw home. Heroic efforts to save the ships during the night were ultimately unsuccessful and the ships had to be scuttled before the break of dawn. The DERFFLINGER-Class: Derfflinger marks a new generation of German battlecruisers after the first generation ships represented by Blücher to Seydlitz. The Derfflingers featured bigger guns (8 of the well-known high speed 30.5cm SK L/50) arranged in an all-centerline super firing A-B-X-Y-configuration. As typical for ships of that period the Derfflingers featured a casemated secondary battery and underwater torpedo tubes (which ultimately doomed SMS Lützow). The ships featured a heavy 300mm belt which is comparable to contemporary British Dreadnoughts and high speed around 28kn. Trials were a bit lower around 26kn but were conducted in shallow water under war-time conditions which translates roughly into a 2kn higher top speed under normal conditions. All in all the Derfflingers were an exceptionally successful design that distinguished itself in battle and formed the basis for most following battlecruiser designs, such as the Mackensens. Given Germany’s difficult situation of operating a defense-oriented battlefleet against a passive enemy who was head and shoulders over the HSF numerically, the high speed of the Derfflingers was a huge Advantage over the battleships, a fact that shows in the unusual active service records for capital ships of that time or even capital ships in general. Proposed implementation into World of Warships: HP: 42,000 Armor: 300mm max (belt) + Turtleback Speed: 28kn Armament: 4x2 30.5cm SK L/50 (reload 26s / range 12km / max dispersion 164m / sigma 1.9 – about half way between König and König Albert) plus 12 x 15cm SK L/45 (4km base range) With about 31.000t deep load her health pool could be around a healthy 42k HP. Her 300mm belt armor and turtleback armor will make her almost invulnerable to critical citadel hits at T4. Torpedo protection was good by the standards of 1914 but would most likely translate into some 25% like the other German Capital ships. Her primary artillery would be fast firing – assumption would be the “reduced” reload time of 26s as on Kaiser and König would be applied and could behave similar to König Alberts shells (AP alpha of 8300). Her turrets – in line with the other German Battleships would turn rather slow (eg. 60sec for a 180° turn). The penetration of the 30.5cm won’t be an issue as she would face T3-5 only in her tier. Peculiar about the ship would be a T3 like short firing range of about 12km. This would be due to the fact that Lützow didn’t receive a high up artillery director on a tripod mast like her sisters after Jutland. In consequence her range finders are comparable in height to König Albert which translates into the short gun range. However she would be far better able to compensate for that with high speed to get in quickly or retreat if needed. Her secondary battery would consist of the usual 15cm SK L/45 with a abase range of 4km that can be pushed to 5km by flags and captain skills. Being a 1916 battlecruiser she would have almost no AA to speak of. Handling-wise SMS Lützow would be very fast driving straight (28kn) but relatively sluggish while turning. Historically the ship turned well but was slow to answer the helm as the tandem rudders were not in direct prop wash. This drawback should be modelled in WOWS as well and would translate into a bad rudder shift time. As a special “gimmick” the ship would have access to the “Speed Boost” consumable. Summary: Lützow would be the perfect candidate for a Tier 4 premium ship and an intriguing vessel. She’d have some pronounced strength and weaknesses and would offer a unique playstyle. She would be a fast but slow turning ship. She would mount fast firing and relatively accurate 30.5cm rifles but suffering from a very short firing range which she would need to compensate by high speed. Her unique speed boost consumable would help her to charge in and out quickly into fights. Thanks for reading and looking forward to your thoughts on this :-)
  14. As you can probably tell from my name, I'm hoping that the Battlecruiser HMS Lion gets introduced into the game at some point, hopefully with the next load of British Ships. Recently I've been thinking about what the hull upgrades might look. Here's the ideas I've had: Stock Hull: 1912 historic hull (8*13.5 inch Mk 5 guns (Light shell) (max range, 13.7km), 16*4 inch Mk 7 secondaries, citadel armor, 4-9 inches, top speed 24.4 knots, 46000 HP) 1st Hull Upgrade: 1918 historic hull (8*13.5 inch Mk 5 guns (Light shell) (max range, 16.0 km), 16*4 inch Mk 7 secondaries, citadel armor 4-9 inches, top speed 27.5 knots, 46000 HP) 2nd Hull Upgrade: 1930's fictional rebuild (along similar lines to HMS Renown (6*13.5 inch Mk 5 guns (Light shell) (max range, 18.3 km), 12*4.5 inch Mk 3 QF, citadel armor, 9 inches throughout, top speed 30.5 knots, 50000 HP) (in my fictional history, Lion, Princess Royal, and Tiger were kept in service up to and into WW2. In response to the development of the Deutschland class cruisers in Germany, Lion and her sisters were rebuilt as heavy cruiser hunters, with improved armor protection, new engines and boilers to increase speed, aircraft hanger and catapult, new superstructure, and improved secondaries and AA defence, with Q turret removed to save weight and make way for aircraft hanger and catapult. Basically she'd look like a smaller Post-1939 Renown). On all three hulls, she'd have good (i.e. low) dispersion on the main battery guns and good range, but slow turret rotation speed, and slow shell velocity, so you'd need to add plenty of lead (see here for more details on shell velocities for 13.5 inch gun, also where I got my ideas for gun ranges. http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_135-45_mk5.php). I'd also give her decent rudder shift, but with a large turning circle, and poor torpedo protection (keeping with history, and to keep her balanced). So, what do you guys think? What are your ideas
  15. Hi, My first post! I´ve been building a tech tree for SMS/KMS and the Royal Navy. I´ve been trying to incorporate Battlecruisers in a way that makes them competetive in the game. Due to real ship design evolution I see no place for BC in tier 9-10, barely making it to tier 8 acctually. I also made a suggestion for how to handle heavy cruisers in the Royal Navy line. Some comments: Seydlitz as first premium for Germany, only ship in class, historically famous after the battle of Jutland. Deutchland class Panzershiff, I´ve classified it as at heavy cruiser, should be in the game but I don´t know if tier 5 is the right place? After the presentation of the Royal Navy light cruiser line I´ve tried to incorporate the heavy cruisers of Royal Navy in it. The Royal Navy acctually did not have that many heavy cruisers. Ive placed the York class before the County class (not historically correct) due to the amount of guns. York have 6 8-inch guns and County (and subclasses) 8 8-inch guns. Royal Navy BBs, so much to choose in the low tiers, made to lines to tier 6. Royal Navy BCs, I have the Admiral class in the line and Hood as premium. Hood should be the first BC in game as a premium, a way to present a new shipytype (yeah I know there are BCs in the Jap BB line but I mean as a "real BCs") So, comments? should I never post again?
  16. A detailed look at Battlecruiser Design J3 It's like some sort of cross between Hood and Littorio. And retains both of their good looks! Good day folks, a quick foreword, over on the NA server, user dseehafer runs a very successful series, known as "A detailed look at" or ADLA for short. I have promised to make myself a little more unique when creating my own little sub series of reviews, so I have chosen to only review those ships that for whatever reason, never made of the drawing board, or off the slipway. This is essentially a copy of the NA thread, for EU viewers, since I know some people don't go on the NA forums. The first design to take up the mantle is the Royal Navy’s J3 Battlecruiser design. One of the many designs for a new post World War 1 battlecruiser for the Royal Navy, she was designed in 1920, after the preceding K2 & K3 designs. J3 was saving on displacement compared to the other designs, and sacrificed a heavy 16” or 18” main armament for higher speed. Her armour and size was comparable to her predecessor, HMS Hood. However, J3 was deemed too vulnerable, there were large gaps in her comparatively thick deck armour that could allow the magazines to be hit and the ship was not really what the Royal Navy wanted. The design process for a new battlecruiser moved on to I3. Bearing in mind that this ship is a design, the values may be substantially different to what we see here, and I will try and take a best guess as to what WG will do with this fine battlecruiser. WEIGHT – 43’100t This equates to 61’666 hit points, through the BB HP equation (10756 + (1.1812 x tonnage) However this is the as built or standard displacement of the ship, and the deep load displacement is used as the hit points for the top hull. This means, that if we take a theoretical deep load gaining 6’000t, J3 ends up with 68’753 hit points. Rounded to 68’700, this is only behind Tirpitz at tier 8, beating Amagi and North Carolina by an excess of 2’000. So this does suggest that J3 will end up at the higher end of the hit point scale at tier 8. ARMOUR – Main belt: 305mm (12”) thick. An external belt, angled at 25 degrees. Bulkheads: 305mm (12”) Deck: 51-102mm (2”-4”) Main deck is 4” (102mm) thick. Thins to 3” (76mm) then 2” (51mm) at Fore & Aft. Turrets: 203-380mm (8”-15”) Front; 15” (380mm), Side; 12” (305mm) Roofs; 8” (203mm) J3 is quite well armoured, definitely more so than her Japanese contemporary; Amagi, having the same citadel armour as North Carolina, only more heavily angled. Her deck is not as good as North Carolina however. I would not expect J3 to match up to Tirpitz however, but she is definitely better than Amagi, and for the most part on par with North Carolina. MAIN BATTERY – 3x3 381mm Housed in 3 Triple turrets; 2 forward and 1 Aft, J3 would use the 15”/50 gun (381mm). This is essentially the 15”/42 you find already in game on Warspite, but firing the same shells at a higher velocity. Otherwise everything is the same as Warspite, except you have 9 of these guns. The turrets may bear a resemblance to Nelson’s however, so we could see a better traverse speed. SECONDARY BATTERY – 6x2 152mm, 6x1 120mm, * As originally designed this is the same as Nelson, with 3 twin 6” turrets being able to fire to a broadside, with 6 High Angle 4.7” DP mounts. However, this is as designed in 1920. At tier 8, she has to compete with the 1930s treaty battleships, and this secondary armament may not be adequate enough. Certainly though, this original design can serve as an A hull in game. But WG will most likely give J3 a top hull which has a 4.5” (113mm) or 5.25” (133mm) dual purpose battery. Nelson and Rodney where proposed to receive such a refit, so J3 can receive such a refit as well. However, the specifics of the upgrade depends on how WG architect the final hull. AA BATTERY – 6x1 120mm, 4x (4/8) 40mm Pom Pom Mounts As said above, this is also inadequate for high tiers, and it depends on how much AA they decide to give J3 with their design of a WW2 refit that would have given her improved AA, had she been built. Likely to appear are the aforementioned 4.5” and 5.25” DP batteries, along with numerous 20mm and 40mm mounts. SPEED – 32 knots This would make J3 the fastest tier 8 Battleship yet, but her speed could be reduced by an improved AA hull refit. Even so, she should still be the fastest around. CONCLUSION – Overall, I think J3 (Or as I call her, Magnificent) will be a good candidate for tier 8, probably in a British Battlecruiser tech tree, which would probably come in the far distant future. She is quite average compared to the rest of the tier 8 BBs currently in the game, and slots herself into the middle of most categories. She may seem a little under-gunned compared to the 16” wielding North Carolina and Amagi, but her other aspects will help her out here, being a more flexible ship, in all aspects but being manoeuvrable (being as long as Yamato). Being similar in size and armour to Hood, likely a tier 7, her upgrade to slot her above Hood is her firepower. Of course, if I have made any mistakes feel free to point them out, feedback is appreciated, and have a nice day! Also, let me know of any other design ships you want me to review as well, and I will see if I can review them as well. PROS – - Best in class speed. - Good AA & Secondaries (WG dependent) - Above Average number of hit points - Low Detection range – Being lower than the others CONS – - Can seem under-gunned compared to others. - Poor Turning circle, being the longest of any of the tier 8s. - No Aircraft catapult (Although WG can add one) - May have a sub-par firing range. Pretty Pictures:
  17. So I know this won't come for quite some time I assume, but I still just want to go over what we can expect to see later down the line. So on the top of my head I came up with this, but I need help to fill out the blanks or please tell me if you think my placements are bad. Tier 3-5: I expect to see paper ships here, but I can't find anything obvious Tier 6: I'm pretty sure Ise will fit nicely as it is basically Fuso. Tier 7: not really sure Tier 8: Tosa Tosa-class will do the trick as it has the same armament as Amagi. It's slower, but it makes up for it in slightly larger secondary battery and armor Tier 9: Kii Kii looks like an Amagi, but has better armor. So since Amagi is already pretty strong (I think at least), I think Kii could be a contender for this spot. Tier 9 contenders include the Fujimoto 30 project and Hiraga designs armed with 16 inch/406 mm main guns Tier 10: A-150 "Super Yamato" For many I guess this would sound insane as Yamato is already one of the strongest tier 10 ships, and I can understand that as the initial designs for A-150 was a displacement of 90 000+ tons and 3x3 20" or 4x2 20" guns, but let's not forget the design was reworked to be much lighter and only armed with 3x2 20" guns. With some balancing I think the A-150 could be balanced in game. Tier 10 contenders include the Hiraga design armed with 18" and Number 13 class. I'll write some specs later and do some polishing later, attach some photos maybe?
  18. yacskn

    Minor Nations As Premiums

    Hello guys, With the addition of other major naval powers looming in the distant future, I thought (along with many others it seems) that minor nations should also be represented in the game in one way or other. Now given that not many people are familiar with them, and the fact that they don't have ship classes enough to fill a 10 tier tech tree, the best way seems to be 1 famous ship = 1 nation, added as premiums. I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions for ships that you deem worthy of representation in the game. To get the ball rolling, I'll start first, with this: TCG Yavuz, a battlecruiser that was the flagship of the Ottoman and later the Turkish Navy. Launched in 1911 and comissioned in 1912 as SMS Goeben (Moeltke-class) for the Imperial German Navy, she boasted ten 280mm (11in) guns in 5 twin turrets, had a belt armour 280mm (11in) thick and a top speed of 25.5 knots (28.4 after her refit in the 1920s). As the Germans declared war on France in 1914 she was on her way to Algeria alongside the light cruiser SMS Breslau. After bombarding Philippeville, she was ordered by Admirals Alfred von Tirpitz and Hugo von Pohl to steam for Constantinople. Upon their arrival the Ottoman government announced the purchase of the two ships to circumvent the neutrality laws. The ships were given the names Yavuz Sultan Selim and Midilli respectively, commander of the squadron Admiral Wilhelm Souchon was given the command of the Ottoman Navy and the ships' crew the Ottoman uniforms (yes, including the fezzes). Her actions under Admiral Souchon against the Russian Empire caused Russia to declare war on the Ottomans and dragged the Turks into the war (which they were trying to avoid). During the war she acted as a raider and a fleet-in-being, single-handedly blocking the Russian Navy and the Allied ships from trying to break into the Marmara Sea (and through there into the Mediterranean and vice-versa, the Black Sea. During the 1920s the newly founded Turkish Republic made it a priority to refurbish the ship and put her back into service against the growing Soviet threat. After learning that Yavuz was to be recomissioned and worried about the prospect, the Greek government proposed a 10 year "holiday" from naval building which was rejected by the Turks, citing Soviet threat. After her return to service the Soviet Navy transferred the battleship Parizhskaya Kommuna and light cruiser Profintern to the Black Sea to counteract it. From Wikipedia: "Over the course of the refit, the mine damage was repaired,her displacement was increased to 23,100 t (22,700 long tons), and the hull was slightly reworked. She was reduced in length by a half meter but her beam increased by 10 cm (4 in). Yavuz was equipped with new boilers and a French fire control system for her main battery guns. Two of the 15 cm guns were removed from their casemate positions.Her armor protection was not upgraded to take the lessons of the Battle of Jutland into account, and she had only 2 inches (5.1 cm) of armor above her magazines.Yavuz was recommissioned in 1930, resuming her role as flagship of the Turkish Navy, and performed better than expected in her speed trials; her subsequent gunnery and fire control trials were also successful... In response to Yavuz‍ '​s return to service, the Soviet Union transferred the battleship Parizhskaya Kommuna and light cruiser Profintern from the Baltic in late 1929 to ensure that the Black Sea Fleet retained parity with the Turkish Navy. The Greek Government also responded by ordering two destroyers. Yavuz remained in service throughout World War II. In November 1939 she and Parizhskaya Kommuna were the only capital ships in the Black Sea region, and Life magazine reported that Yavuz was superior to the Soviet ship because the latter was in poor condition. In 1941, her anti-aircraft battery was strengthened to four 88 mm (3.5 in) guns, ten 40 mm (1.6 in) guns, and four 20 mm (0.79 in) guns. These were later increased to twenty-two 40 mm guns and twenty-four 20 mm guns. On 5 April 1946, the American battleship USS Missouri, light cruiser Providence, and destroyer Power arrived in Istanbul to return the remains of Turkish ambassador Münir Ertegün. Yavuz greeted the ships in the Bosphorus, where she and Missouri exchanged 19-gun salutes." She was decommissioned in December 1950. I think it would be an interesting addition to the tech tree as a tier 4 or tier 5 premium battlecruiser. It certainly deserves the spot more than some paper ships which never actually existed. What do you guys think? P.S.: I'm sorry for the long history lesson (which is grossly simplified and shortened) but I felt like you needed to know a little about it before refusing the idea outright.
  19. Right, this topic is a copy of a post i made on the NA forums, but i thought i'd post it here aswel. Here are two plans made by the Dutch government to aquire big ships with which to defend its colonial empire. Suffice to say, two big wars spoiled those plans. I might add some other Dutch ships (cruisers etc) later. Enjoy! Battleship plan 1912 In the years before the outbreak of the first world war, the Dutch government became concerned about the naval expansion of the Japanese fleet during and following the Russo-Japanese war. As The Dutch Indies (now Indonesia) were of considerable economic importance to the Dutch economy, plans were made to enlarge the fleet protecting the colonies. In 1912, the then minister of naval affairs J. Wentholt came up with the plan "Panzerschip 1912" (roughly translated into Armoured ship 1912) which called for the construction of four armoured cruisers armed with 11" guns. However the navy was against this plan, which it deemed inadequate, and wanted bigger and stronger ships. This caused quite a stir in parliament and ultimately forced the minister to resign. The new minister (then under the new name "minister of war", now called minister of defence) wasted no time and formed a committee for the design and construction of 9 battleships, to counter the Japanese threat. They were to have a displacement of 21,000 tonnes, top speed of 21 knots, an armored belt of 250mm (where 300mm was more common) and armed with 8 13" guns. At first, only the German Krupp-Germania company (which was already constructing the German Kaiser class dreadnoughts) was contacted to make three preliminary designs for these ships: Fully oil fired, fully coal fired and mixed oil-coal firing. Oil firing was preffered, even though oil (and the infrastructure for it) was still scarce within the Dutch colonial empire. Among the designs that followed, this beauty came along. As far as i can tell, this is one of the first modern battleship designs with two quadruple turrets, just like the later French Richelieu and Dunkerque class battleships. The French Lyon class with 4 4-barreled turrets was designed in the same period, but also never built. HERE you can find a 3D redering of this vessel. (Dutch site, but the video speaks for itself!) As The Netherlands did not have experience with properly designing and building capital ships, a large number of international shipbuilding companies were contacted to assist in the design and to ultimately construct the ships. Of these, only Krupp-Germania (builders of the German Kaiser class), Blohm & Voss and Vickers came with designs which were seriously considered by the Dutch government. By 1914 the max dispacement had risen to around 28,000 tonnes and the guns enlarged to 8 14"/L45 in four twin turrets and the engines would run on mixed coal and oil firing with a top speed of 22 knots. Armor was still the weak, battlecruiser like, with a maximum thickness of 250mm. In the end... In July 1914 a bill had been passed for the funding of the ships (order was scaled down to 5 or 7) and even though there was still some discussion going about which design to choose (even though the Krupp-Germania design was apparently preffered), the first keel would been laid down in December of that year with the ships being completed in 1918. However, the War spoiled those plans and no keels were ever laid down. In 1920 and 1921 a new Royal Commission investigated the need for new ships to defend the Dutch colonial empire, but did not recommend to construct battleships. This ruling, combined with the growing pacifist movement of that time pretty much killed off the project...until the 1930 battlecruiser project came along (more on that later). In hindsight The latest designs of the Dutch dreadnoughts were relatively up to spec with dreadnoughts or battlecruisers of other nations, except in one area: armor and seconday guns. Due to the relatively small dispacement of 21,000 to 28,000 tonnes, weight was saved by using a less thick armoured belt. In that respect these ships were comparable to the Japanese Kongo class battlecruisers gun and armor wise, but much slower. To sum it up: not enough armor and guns for a battleship and too slow for a battlecruiser. But maybe the relative large amout of ships (5 to 9 planned ships) might have made up for that...we'll never know! So...How about some battlecruisers? In the 1930's the navy once again became convinced that the two light WW1 cruisers of the Java class, a fleet of submarines and a few old armored gunboats were not enough to protect the Dutch Indies agains possible Japanese aggression. It was believed that if a war with Japan broke out, it would send the bulk of its large ships to fight the Americans and the British, leaving their cruisers to fight the Dutch forces. So the Dutch navy began a project to aquire three "super cruisers" along the "stronger than faster, faster than stronger" line of thought. Dutch intelligence did not expect the Japanese cruisers to be escorted by carriers, so even the threat of these ships in port (as a fleet in being) would be enough to discourage the Japanese of invading Dutch territory. Design In 1939 the go-ahead was given to begin the planning and design of these ships. Top speed was to be 32 knots, 9 11"guns in three turrets and a considerable secondary battery of dual purpose 120mm guns and 40mm AA guns. As with the dreadnoughts, the Dutch were incapable of designing a modern capital ship so they turned to other countries. At first they turned to the French in the hope that they would release plans to their Dunkerque class battleships. But as this turned out to be a futile effort, the Dutch turned to their easterly neighbours: Nazi Germany.After a number of rounds of negotiations, the Germans agreed to release rough schematics of "a battlecruiser in line with the German school of shipbuilding" (which looked A LOT like the Scharnhorst class). At first this was even without the armor protection scheme but after later negotiations these were also released except the part below the water line. The Dutch faced two problems with the German design: They did not trust the all-diesel propulsion system and favoured a steam turbine setup. (but there wasnt enough room in the design) The design totally lacked torpedo defences as the Germans refused to release these. The first problem was to be solved by enlarging the engine room, but this ment sacrificing armour to keep within the 16,000 tonnes displacement limit. (as the Dutch were not involved with the naval treaties, they did not have to adhere to the 10,000 tonnes limit for cruisers)The second problem was solved with the help of the Italians. They gave the Dutch permission to inspect their Vittorio Veneto battleship and its protection scheme AND the Italians knew a thing or two about the German Scharnhorst. The result of this trip was a complete rework of the internal subdivision of the ship and resulted in better protection against magnetic torpedoes with the use of a reworked double bottom. The latter had to be abandoned however, as it would exceed the maximum draft specified. And in the end...part 2 Up to March 1940 Dutch delegations went to Berlin to discuss the designs with 1944 as an estimated delivery year for the first ship, but just like with the dreadnoughts, war reared its ugly head and things ground to a halt. In May of that same year, Germany invaded The Netherlands so you could say that all work was for nothing. 1047 class compared to the Scharnhorst class In contrast to the earlier dreadnought designs, the class 1047 would be one of the finest battlecruisers designed in that time. It's armor would be a bit weaker than its Scharnhorst counterpart, but in all other aspects it would have been better. More reliable engines, twin smokestacks which improved engine performance even further, better elevation for the main guns, far superior anti-air systems (the 40mm Bofors emplacements with Hazemeyer mounts were also used on Dutch destroyers, and were later copied by the British and Americans to become the Mark IV twin mount (RN) and MK 1 and 2 guns for the USN...some of the most effective AA guns of the war). Also the use of dual purpose secondary guns instead of single purpose enhanced its effectivenes even further. Concluding / TL;DR For a small navy (with a big history i might add) the Dutch had big plans for big ships, but every time they were ready to place the order war broke out. Their effectiveness in WW2 if they had been built would have been questionable though. Especially considering Japanese airpower and the use of long lance torpedoes. MAYBE that the battle of the Java sea would have turned out differently, but that's a big if. Thank you for reading, and i hope to see some more lesser known beauties on these forums! :) Sources: Wikipedia (plan 1912) Wikipedia (class 1047) Netherlandsnavy.nl (plan 1912) Netherlandsnavy.nl (class 1047)