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Found 26 results

  1. Seit über einem Jahr ist es nun schon so, dass man den Antrieb von Prinz Eugen und Hipper mit HE Granaten über 203mm und Britischen Streubomben meist mit nur einem Treffer (unter dem Schornstein an der Schiffswand mit Granaten, für Bomben mitte des Schiffes) rausnehmen kann (mehrmals im Trainigsraum ausprobiert). Ich dachte mir, dass es ein komischer weg wäre, diese Schiffe zu balancieren, da historisch ihre Turbinen sehr nah aneinander standen, aber jetzt, wo die Mainz und Tallin ins Spiel gekommen sind, und diese Probleme nicht haben, heben sich bei mir dann doch die Augenbrauen, und ich frage mich, ob dass ganze nicht doch ein unbemerkter Fehler seie? Schließlich haben Tallin und Mainz den selben Rumpf wie Prinz Eugen (mit Ausnahme von der Beplattung), was ist also der Grund dafür?
  2. Kā var sazināties ar centru???

  3. HaachamaShipping

    Were the buffs to Hipper and Eugen enough?

    I'd say no and will explain my opinion in this post, but I felt like formulating the topic title as a question to open this thread up to discussion from people who might have a different opinion. I do not question that buffs for Admiral Hipper and Prinz Eugen were required, I'm questioning whether they actually made these ships worth playing. I consider both to be the most irrelevant cruisers at T8 still and a chore to play, which is sad for Hipper, but utterly disastrous for Prinz Eugen, which costs money after all. Mainly, I think this comes down to two things: Lack of effective dpm. Highly situational armour scheme. What do I mean by that? Well, Hipper, like most things German in this game, has HE that has high pen and low damage and fire chance and AP that has high damage and pretty low penetration. Which in practice means, unless you have broadsides to wreck, the ship basically relies on spamming HE, which has as its sole ray of light that it can pen 50 mm of armour. Hipper has of all T8 cruisers the least amount of guns, has a very average reload time and the HE shells have a staggering 2,500 damage potential. Just to put this into perspective, Charles Martel and Baltimore as average heavy cruisers have 2,800 damage potential per shell, Atago and Mogami (203) have 3,300, Mogami (155) has 2600, Cleveland and Chapayev have 2,200 and Kagero has 2,150. Due to getting this combination of lackluster RoF, low amount of guns and unreliable or low damage shells, it can very much happen that you are stuck with basically the lowest effective dpm at T8 among tech line cruisers when playing Hipper, or lowest overall in Prinz Eugen. CAs in this game generally have lower dpm than CLs, but Hipper takes it to new extremes by also having low fire chance at 11% per shell. Cleveland has 12%. Kagero has 9% (and due to higher RoF, Kagero is actually about as good a fire starter as Hipper, which is sad). Just to make it even worse, HE dpm-wise, Hipper is actually a downgrade from the Yorck which has barely slower reload, but a significantly better HE shell and 12% fire chance. Prinz Eugen naturally is even worse, due to lower RoF than Hipper. Now, some may say, this is horrible HE performance is justified by the high AP dpm. But I'd disagree. At anything but broadside, you won't get pens and as soon as a ship angles, you are back to requiring HE to get anything done. Thus, I'm going to say that "AP dpm" might actually be a faulty concept, as frankly, you need someone willing to ignore you "spamming" (is this term even applicable with that RoF?) AP into their side. Baltimore and Edinburgh are slightly more forgiving, as they get improved pen angles and thus can make more generous AP plays, but Hipper cannot. And thus, I find the greatest impact value AP has for a cruiser is the ability to surprise blap an enemy cruiser in 1-2 salvos. And guess what, that's about the only thing Hipper could do best... except it doesn't. Hipper/Eugen seem best in damage potential per single AP salvo, with 47,200 potential damage from 8 AP cits. However, all CLs are more capable of firing a follow-on salvo before the target angled, as can Charles Martel (reload booster!), Baltimore is more forgiving for a follow-up salvo with super-heavy AP (and 45,000 damage potential per salvo) and the Mogami (203) and Atago have barely less AP damage potential per broadside (47,000) but have the accuracy to much more reliably snipe a citadel. Mogami (155) lacks that accuracy but has the actualy highest aP per broadside, at 49,500. Thus, in that role, you basically aren't terrible... but noone else is really worse. And others do have actual HE. The second point I stated was situational armour. Hipper has 27 mm everywhere, except the waterline belt, where it is more. This allows it to tank 38 cm shells. Hipper and Prinz Eugen have the potential to be up against a full lineup of T6-8 BBs that can be tanked and brawled to death with torps. Too bad MM throws you against T9s and T10s most of the time, where 38 cm is exceedingly rare. Not that at T6 and T7 there are no big guns capable of hurting you and frankly, any non-overmatching BB that is somewhat competent can just load the HE and stay outside torp range. They'll outlast you easily. Fuso has better HE dpm than Hipper. So, you basically can go try brawl people who have no idea how to deal with your armour and mostly BBs. Against cruisers, 27 mm at T8 gets penned by everyone (except those stuck without IFHE for whatever reason) and DDs fall into three categories mostly: DDs without IFHE that can at best pen Edinburgh and maybe Cleveland. They won't pen any other cruiser, because already 25 mm shuts them down. DDs with IFHE, which allows them to pen every T8 cruiser, because 127 mm IFHE can pen up to including 27 mm. And Cossack/Lightning, which are the two T8 BBs with guns you can tank if they have IFHE that others need to be bothered about. Vs DDs, what matters more than Hipper's armour is that Hipper's poor dpm makes Hipper and Eugen the absolute worst DD killers at the tier. DDs like IJN 10 cm DDs can smoke up and farm you for significant amount of hp, or if they have to, all except Harekaze can pick an open water gunfight and win a 1v1, because Akizuki may only have half Hipper's hp pool, but has double the dpm and will torch you far more efficiently. If you look at other cruisers, they either don't rely on armour to the same degree or they have flat out more useful armour. The latter basically is Atago, which is 25 mm everywhere, except belt and a 41 mm deck. This means that, yes, 38 cm BBs might penetrate where on Hipper they'd bounce, but this armour scheme is actually reliable in what it does from T6 to T10. Shells that land on the deck bounce, regardless of whether it was a Bayern or a Yamato firing at you. This deck plating actually has consistent value. It even holds off most HE. This is what efficient plating looks like. Not 27 mm all over that might as well be nothing as soon as you encounter a West Virginia or Mutsu or almost anything at T9/10. So, where does that leave Hipper/Eugen in my books? Basically, both ships lack impact. They seem geared most of all to deal with BBs, as smaller ships will frankly take them apart with dpm. Hipper's dpm is basically on par with a Kagero but with 17+ km range and 50 mm HE pen, but for actually removing DDs, this is utterly inadequate (because the range and pen don't matter and Kagero is the least threatening T8 DD a DD can run into, with the exception of Asashio). This means that at T8, Hipper most of all threatens Bismarck/Tirpitz, but Amagi and NC will crap on it just like they do on any other cruiser... well, Charles Martel might speed dodge, Cleveland has a small citadel and Atago can tank it on the deck. 38 cm Monarch and Richelieu might get frustrated by the Hipper, but their extensive 32 mm plating means that a well-positioned Cleveland, Chapayev or Mogami (155) are far more dangerous, as are most other CAs. Against T9/10, the proliferation of 406+ mm guns obviously means that the Hipper basically only gets to shine against heavily armoured ships as quasi-can opener, in the hope that it does more HE damage than others get with fires. But even if Hipper/Prinz Eugen were actually able to kill BBs, that would still leave them with lackluster impact, compared to ships like Atago or Mogami, which can play effective surprise attacks (blasting DDs and cruisers with heavy HE and AP broadsides), stealth torpedo attacks or the ships that have dpm and radar. But as is, Hipper/Prinz Eugen can't even do that. So, can WG please go and get these ships a proper role and something meaningful to be good at that isn't utterly negated by the majority of ships it runs into? Or am I overlooking something in my analysis? Also, just to touch upon something that might impact these ships too: WG stated in their latest Waterline video that CAs will receive armour amidships to tank BBs and will no longer get easily penned by CLs. While I have no clue how they plan to do this, it would obviously mean Hipper/Eugen might get buffed. The question however is, if basically all CAs get this, what is the point of these two? If a Charles Martel or Mogami (which after all is a CA hull) can tank BBs, what's the point of Hipper/Eugen?
  4. Hallo liebe Leute, ich hätte einen Szenariovorschlag für das WG-Team. Falls es ihn schon in dieser Art gibt oder ich einen Thread übersehen habe, bitte ich um Nachsicht. Ich hoffe auch, dass ich ihn dieser Abteilung richtig bin. Dieser Thread ist als Gedankenexperiment und Ideensammlung gedacht. Meine Idee wäre ein an das reale Unternehmen Cerberus angelehntes Szenario. Zur Erinnerung: Die Rückführung der schweren deutschen Schiffe Gneisenau, Scharnhorst und Prinz Eugen durch den Ärmelkanal wurde von der deutschen Propaganda als Sieg verklärt, obwohl es nur ein gut geplanter und mit viel Glück gelungener Rückzug von den Liegeplätzen an der Atlantikküste war. Dennoch bietet das Szenario m.E. genug Möglichkeiten für ein spannendes Szenario. Ich habe bei der Idee dazu großen Wert darauf gelegt, dass der Programmieraufwand möglichst gering zu halten ist. Zum Glück hat die Dunkirk-Mission uns schon viele Elemente beschert, die man für eine solche Mission nutzen könnte. AI-gesteuerte Torpedoboote Küstenartillerie Minenfelder und Minentreffer Anfliegende Feindflugzeuge Zudem sind die meisten Fahrzeuge für dieses Szenario bereits als fertige Modelle im Spiel, so dass auch hier viel wiederverwendet werden kann (wobei man darüber streiten kann, ob man aus historischen Gründen eine weitere Scharnhorst als Gneisenau mitführt). Wichtig: Diese Mission ist nicht für die schweren Schiffe gedacht. Es macht m.E. wenig Sinn, eine "Schlachtschiffmission" daraus zu machen - die Hauptartillerie kam kaum zum Einsatz. Vielmehr würde ich mein Augenmerk hier - wie bei Dunkirk - auf die Eskorten legen. Sprich: Eine Mission für die Zerstörer, mit der man mit etwas künstlerischer Freiheit auch eventuelle Premiums (z.B. T61) promoten könnte. Die Aufgaben wären Absicherung der schweren Schiffe gegen Flugzeuge und Torpedoboote wie in der Dunkirk-Mission. Interessante Eckpunkte aus Spielersicht (nicht unbedingt der des Historikers) für das Szenario wären z.B.: Sicherung bei zunehmend schlechter Sicht (Dämmerung) Sicherung während eines Stillstandes (Minentreffer auf Scharnhorst und Gneisenau) Verlangsamung der zu schützenden Schiffe bei Treffern Zeitlimit, bevor britische Verstärkung herangeführt wird Was für Belohnungen könnte das Szenario bringen? Neben einem Kapitän und den üblichen Gratifikationen dachte ich z.B. an eine einfache Sondertarnung für die "Schwestern". Was denkt Ihr? Ich freue mich über konstruktive Ideen, Vorschläge und weiteres Brainstorming. Ich bin mir sicher, dass hier viele Enthusiasten sind, die mit ihrem Wissen dazu beitragen können (Hinweis: Die Standardwerke von John Deane Potter und Bekker habe ich natürlich gelesen)
  5. Hello everyone. I love playing this game with my friend which he just unlocked his fav ship Bismarck. And i would like to play it with him with Another tier 8 German. Should I buy Prinz eugen for historical reference ;) Or Tirpitz for Sisterly companionship?
  6. SoloMessina86

    Prinz Eugen

    Salve ragazzi, ho una domanda per voi: che voi sappiate, in Prinz Eugen è stato aggiornato e depotenziato di recente? tra l'altro avevo montato il potenziamento della batteria principale per aumentare la portata, ma adesso lo slot è vuoto e quel potenziamento non è più selezionabile (ce ne sono altri ma non quello). Grazie anticipatamente a chi mi risponderà
  7. nuteladealer

    Prinz Eugen zdarma

    Zajímalo by mě, proč neaktivní hráči dostanou zdarma T8 premiák a já, co platím jak mourovatej nedostanu zdarma nikdy nic. Nemyslíte si, že je tento přístup kontraproduktivní, když obdarováváte hráče za to, že nehrají? PS: už vám nedám ani korunu
  8. Hallo an Alle, Mich würde mal interessieren, wie lange es dieses Paket zu Kaufen gibt. Ich bin ein gestandener Familienvater mit mehreren Enkeln und pflege außer WoWs noch weitere Hobbys, wie Motorrad, Dampfen (E-Zigarette), Haus und Garten. Auf gut deutsch, da ich einen von mir festgelegten Finanzierungsplan habe, kann ich mir diese Schiffe in diesem Monat nicht mehr leisten. Da bei diesem Angebot, kein Ablaufdatum zu sehen ist, frage ich Euch, wie lange solche Angebote (ohne Ablaufdatum) im Allgemeinen gültig sind. Ich würde dieses Paket gerne kaufen, aber eben erst Anfang Mai. Liebe Grüße noch und viel Erfolg!
  9. Hallo, ich bin seit einer Weile am überlegen mir die Prinz Eugen zuzulegen und habe eben in einem Video gesehen, dass es eine 2. Premiumtarnung für stolze 3000 Dublonen gibt oder mal gegeben hat. Leider kann ich im Shop ja nicht sehen was es für Schiffe gibt, wenn ich diese nicht habe. Könnte jemand der eine Prinz Eugen besitz mal bitte schnell im Shop nachsehen, ob es diese Adlertarnung noch zu kaufen gibt? Vielen Dank!
  10. Saranpaa

    Prinz Eugen model/skin in-game.

    Hi. This is one of those small things that wont actually matter much but i´ll give it a go anyways. The Eugen is beautifully represented in the game as are all the other ships too, although one thing has been bugging me. There is spare floatplane float in green camo mounted on starboard side of the ship, just behind the floatplane. The ship originally had the AR196 floatplane which was green and the ship in game uses the Messerschmitt floatplane which has grey camo but the spare float is still green. Is this intentional or just some leftover old texture from previous iterations of the ship model? I know you guys have a lot of more important issues at this point, but i wanted to ask about this thing as it bugs me too see it in harbor. :D (the image is from the internet, not my account.)
  11. Affeks

    Lets discuss Hipper variants

    Sooo basically if I understand these ships Hipper = Silver tier 8 Eugen = Gold tier 8 Blucher = Gold tier 7 Seydlitz = Gold tier 7-8 4x3 150mm cruiser? (Leaving the Carrier reconstruction out of this) Lutzow = Gold Russian tier 8 with 150/203mm? So basically the question here is: can Blucher make a balanced tier 7 with soft nerfs? Will Seydlitz with the originally planned 4x3 150mm work best in tier 7 or 8? Is it okay to give Lutzow to the russians? and if so should it have the 150s or 203s or even have the option to choose between them? Personally there is much hidden potential in the Hipper class, but WG wasted a good opertunity by making a Hipper clone. Here's hoping the rest of them will have more personality.
  12. Taliesn

    Prinz Eugen

    Pues eso, que acaba de salir en la tienda un bundle del Prinz Eugen con premium y es uno de los barcos que siempre he querido tener. Problema, que apenas he leído nada bueno de él, así que os agradecería que terminaseis de convencerme... ¿Qué os parece?
  13. According to the website the Armored Patrol (https://thearmoredpatrol.com/category/world-of-warships/) there will soon be a new cruiser in WOWS: Italian Tier 6 Premium Cruiser Duca d’Aosta. This is nice, to finally have an Italian warship in WOWS, which in 2017 will purportedly be also joined by the fine Italian battleship "Roma". But that is not what this topic is about. One thing triggered me from the description of Duca d'Aosta: Consumables(3rd slot) Repair Team So there we have it. Another Premium Cruiser with the Repair Party Consumable, allowing the ship to regain vital Hit Points. This is nice to have on a ship which will presumably cost around 20 Euros. We have the following Premium Cruisers with the Repair Party Consumable, I might forget to mention one, but here we go: - "Graf Spee" (Germany, Tier 6) - "Duca d'Aosta" (Italy, Tier 6) (Edit: corrected, she does not or will not have it, according to "The Armored Patrol") - "Belfast" (Great Britain, Tier 7) (Edit: corrected, she does not have it (yet?), but British Tier 8 Edinburgh does have an enhanced Repair Party Consumable) - "Atago" (Japan, Tier 8) Next to that we have regular line Cruisers and even Destroyers (USSR ones, of course) with the Repair Party Consumable: - All British cruisers from Tier 3 to Tier 10 - USSR destroyers at Tier 9 and Tier 10 - All Tier 9 and 10 cruisers in WOWS (including the upcoming French cruisers) There is however one important ship missing in the list of Repair Party Consumable (Premium) cruisers which incidentally is the most expensive heavy cruiser in the game: the Tier 8 heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen" which costs 41 Euros rounded up. If one goes over to: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles And selects Tier 8 Cruisers and looks at the stats of the last 2 weeks, then the Tier 7 heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen" is: - the worst in survivability - the worst in damage inflicted - in the bottom two in kill/death ratio - in the bottom two in average kills - in the bottom three in win rate - in the bottom four in experience (XP) The only category in WOWS where "Prinz Eugen" does fairly well is in plane kills, although even in that category she is beaten by and quite a bit below the USSR Premium cruiser Tier 8 "Mikhail Kutuzow". The real world "Prinz Eugen" was easily the largest heavy cruiser (19,042 tons!) of WW2 and, looking at her total equipment suite, by far the heavy cruiser with the highest level of technical sophistication. Late in the war the "Prinz Eugen" and "Tirpitz" were the ships equipped with the most advanced German naval radar which was second to no radar used on any allied warship. One particularly well placed torpedo in WW2 severely damaged part of the stern of the ship, but she still remained afloat and could be steered to safety. The plentiful gunnery of "Prinz Eugen" in the Baltic at the end of the war was crucially important for several military operations and demonstrably accurate. The ship and her crew was honourably mentioned twice by the government for her service. Next to that this rather unique heavy cruiser after WW2 survived two atomic bomb tests (!) in which she was involved. No ship of her class can lay claim to that. So there are enough historical reasons to give this unique and largest heavy cruiser of WW2 a decent treatment in WOWS. There really are no historical or even logical reasons to represent "Prinz Eugen" so badly as has been done in WOWS, and asking 41 Euros for her in WOWS in the poor condition WOWS has chosen to represent her borders on insanity. In WOWS the "Prinz Eugen" is not only the most expensive WOWS cruiser in Euros, it is also the least impressive cruiser to meet as an adversary in any tier 8, 9, 10 match. This is both from an historical and commercial point of view rather stupid. I for one am interested in buying the ship in WOWS, but the way she is presented in WOWS makes her such a "loser" that I cannot justify buying a bad ship like that for any price, let alone 41 Euros. Sure there are some people that bought her for "emotional" reasons, but that is fortunately an exception because I rarely see the ship in matches. No doubt many of the players which have a "Prinz Eugen" choose to leave her in port, where she looks great but that is about it. It appears that from time to time the good folks at WOWS seem to listen to what is written on the forum, but it appears that this is only the case when a lot of people "complain" about things, the more people virtually "shout" on the forum the more likely it is that people at WOWS sit up and take attention. And from what I see the English language part of the forum seems rather oblivious to the newly released German destroyers being generally mediocre/bad at best and the largest WW2 cruiser "Prinz Eugen" being not only really, really bad in WOWS but also the most expensive cruiser at a whopping 41 Euros, and that for inferiority incarnate. It is amazing how many forum "complaints" topics there were about the "Hydro Acoustics Search Equipment" consumable on "Bismarck", which in my opinion had no game changing effect on WOWS. In stark contrast to the really insignificant impact of that "Hydro Acoustics Search Equipment" consumable on "Bismarck", I have seen "Belfast" in action over the past few weeks and she indeed has quite an impact on matches from random to ranked. I have even seen matches with three "Belfasts" in a division, sailing together in a tight unit in formation, erasing everything in front of them with their combined fire and smoke screens making them virtually untouchable. The impact of the latest USSR destroyer changes (unnecessary "buffs" only really) and the latest added USSR destroyers is clearly for all to see far greater in both random and ranked matches, but this too does not gather much "complaining" on the forum. Not compared to all the "complaints" over the past few weeks on the English language forum about the "Hydro Acoustics Search Equipment" consumable on "Bismarck", this complaining however was eventually rewarded by WOWS by "nerfing" "Bismarck". "Belfast" and especially "Mikhail Kutuzow" have not and probably will never been "nerfed" however, no matter how good their in game performance stats are. It is easy to suspect that (British and other nationality) forum users are quite (and understandably) happy that "Belfast" is as clearly overpowered as she is, and that the English language forum users are by now so used to USSR ships over performing for their class that they no longer object to it. Maybe the English language forum users are also just as used to that as to German cruisers and destroyers in WOWS generally being generally presented as unremarkable, insignificant and under performing compared to their real world equivalents. That does not make it right or fair though. In like manner I pointed out in another topic about the growing inferiority of the Premium battleship "Tirpitz", of which the "last two weeks" stats can every month be regularly checked at: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles This Premium battleship in 2016 has suffered from successive "Tirpitz" specific "nerfs" to rudder response rate, (horizontal) armour thickness, accuracy (sigma value), torpedo attack angles, main gun range, main gun turret traverse speed etc. and only receiving few "buffs" in return which were not particular to her but were part of general battleship class "buffs". Other line and Premium battleships over the past year have seen important and successive "buffs" to their accuracy (sigma) which are indirect "nerfs" of "Tirpitz" because she was left out of these "buffs" that some of her key adversaries received. By regularly checking the "last two weeks" stats over a period of months on the https://eu.warships.today/vehicles site it becomes apparent that "Tirpitz" clearly is - compared to other Premium battleships - stat wise the worst performing Premium battleship and even the worst performing battleship in her Tier unlike other Premium battleships which are always the best performers in their Tiers. In fact "Tirpitz" is the only Premium battleship in WOWS which performs considerably worse than her line equivalent (in WOWS "Bismarck" has unjustly and unauthentically received longer ranged secondary and tertiary weaponry, has more accurate main guns and has better AAA and even more consumables compared to "Tirpitz") where in real life "Tirpitz" her equipment state, horizontal armour protection and general performance was superior to her older and smaller sister ship "Bismarck". And "Tirpitz" is also the only Premium battleship which is not displayed in her final wartime (1944) equipment state unlike ALL other Premium battleships in WOWS which are ALL displayed in their final wartime equipment state in WOWS. Instead "Tirpitz" is displayed in WOWS in her early wartime (1942) equipment state, making her even weaker by comparison to other (Premium) battleships which are ALL displayed in their final wartime (1944) equipment state. In real life a total of 26 (!) Allied air attacks were launched against the real world “Tirpitz” by well over 1,101 (!) Allied aircraft. No ship in history was attacked so many times and by so many aircraft in military history. Nor did any other ship in history sustain hits by "ship killer" 5.4 ton monster bombs and survive two such hits and several near misses which are at least just as dangerous if not more so due to shock waves etc. Those 1,101 Allied aircraft only managed to score about 21 hits on “Tirpitz” and even attacks by three allied aircraft carriers all at once could not sink "Tirpitz". The Allies admitted the loss of at least 37+ aircraft (no battleship in WW2 shot down more aircraft than "Tirpitz") to the generally solitary “Tirpitz”, whose AAA was severely handicapped because she could not even use her main AAA guns, the hard hitting long range 10.5 cm AAA guns, due to the Norwegian fjords/mountains blocking their field of fire while at anchor. In WOWS however the best AAA effectiveness and highest air attack survivability goes not to "Tirpitz" which deserves it due to her historical war record, but to USA battleships which never fought solitary and which never came close to demonstrating the resilience to air attacks of "Tirpitz" nor matched the effectiveness of her radar guided and computer controlled AAA armament in solitary combat. The newly released WOWS ship lines and Premium ships (USSR, British, USA) of the last six or so months are generally stronger/superior in performance stat and equipment wise (except for of course the "new" German destroyers), and other already existing older ships keep getting buffed (USSR destroyers etc.) without "Tirpitz" and "Prinz Eugen" enjoying the same "buff" benefit and instead being "left behind". The end effect is that both "Tirpitz" and "Prinz Eugen" keep getting worse stats and in game performance over the past few months. Apparently it does not have to be so for all ships however. Some are more equal than others it seems. Premium battleship "Missouri" for example is superior to line "Iowa" (her sister) in WOWS, not because her real life gun range, accuracy and equipment state was superior but because she is a Premium and WOWS chooses to display her as superior to "Iowa". But for "Tirpitz" and "Prinz Eugen" it is the other way round with these ships being displayed unhistorical and unjustly inferior in performance and stats and equipment wise in WOWS compared to their line equivalents in WOWS ("Bismarck" and "Admiral Hipper") as well as to other ships which could not match their size, armour, general level of high tech equipment suite. And those sorry inferior stats and under performance of the WOWS "Tirpitz" can be bought for 45+Euros making "Tirpitz" the most expensive Premium ship to date, which of course draws a comparison with the equally inferior stats and under performance of "Prinz Eugen" in WOWS for 41 Euros. If the good people at WOWS think that their upcoming Premium German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" is going to be a good seller if it gets the same bad treatment as the WOWS "Tirpitz" and "Prinz Eugen", you better think again. Since we apparently do not have hundreds of people on the forum that "complain" about this sorry state of affairs, either because they have no in depth detailed knowledge of these historic ships, or maybe because they have no "emotional"/"national" investment in them, it seems to be OK for WOWS to display these ships in such a bad way. However, if a hundred people "complain", their numbers do not make them more "right" then when two or more people "complain". The weight of the arguments should be what counts for WOWS on the forum, not just the number of people selectively complaining for "emotional" or whatever reasons. I could just imagine the Russian language forum when the light cruiser "Mikhail Kutuzow" would have been presented as so utterly inept as heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen" is in WOWS. Or how the British players would have reacted if the light cruiser "Belfast" would be as utterly inept as the heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen". Both "Mikhail Kutuzow" and "Belfast" are ships to be taken serious and therefore worth both the time to use them and thus buy them, and rightly so. It is more than a little strange however that both of the Premium light cruisers "Mikhail Kutuzow" (Tier 8) and "Belfast" (Tier 7) seriously outperform the Premium heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen" (Tier 8) and Premium battleship "Tirpitz" (Tier 8) in all categories that matter. Let that sink in for a while, two Premium light cruisers (one USSR and one British) constantly and consistently seriously outperform the two most expensive Premium (German) heavy cruiser and battleship in WOWS in all categories that matter. And it does not end there, since USA Tier 9 Premium battleship "Missouri" also seriously outperforms the two expensive German premiums at Tier 8. Anybody that regularly checks the "two weeks" stats on https://eu.warships.today/vehicles can plainly see that, as well as witness it in WOWS in generally every match. The upcoming release of USA Tier 8 Premium battleship "Alabama" no doubt will further lead to and add to "Tirpitz" and "Prinz Eugen" falling back even further in the in game performance stats. When it comes to "Prinz Eugen", "Tirpitz" and generally the German cruisers and destroyers there seems to be no virtual "shouting" on the forum so things will apparently remain as they are, no matter how bad their stats and how inept/mediocre their in game performance is compared to their Tier and/or Premium equivalent ships in WOWS, which is clear for all to see who face them in a match. Since I have two 19 level German ship commanders I really have no use for a 41 Euro bad ship to "train" commanders, so that too is not a selling point for me. Since so many Premium Cruisers and even line destroyers and cruisers have the Repair Party Consumable there really is no excuse not to also give it to "Prinz Eugen", unless WOWS does not want to sell her of course. But even the Repair Party Consumable is not enough to make "Prinz Eugen" worth 41 Euros. "Mikhail Kutuzow", "Belfast" and "Atago" have a "bite", they can hit and hit hard in a match. That is what "Prinz Eugen" cannot, and which WOWS could easily implement like done for other Premiums. As is, even the inept WOWS "Admiral Hipper" is better than the WOWS "Prinz Eugen". When I meet a "Prinz Eugen" in a match on the opposing side, she is not dangerous at all, even more so when compared to say a "Mikhael Kutuzow", "Atago" and "Belfast". All three of those Premium ships, which all cost less than "Prinz Eugen" are "special", they bring something "special" to a match and are dangerous foes to be respected generally. Not so the WOWS "Prinz Eugen", it is even painfully clear in matches that the equally unimpressive WOWS "Admiral Hipper" is a better ship than the WOWS "Prinz Eugen". Instead of taking this unauthentic approach to historic warships, I advocate that WOWS would strive to represent historic ships an "authentic" treatment. To be sure, I do NOT mean a "simulator" or "realistic" approach, but an "authentic" one. For those that do not understand the difference: Authentic - "Conforming to an original and/or the real world so as to reproduce essential features". Simulator - "A computer simulation (or "sim") is an attempt to model a real-life or hypothetical situation on a computer under real world conditions". Realistic - "Resembling or simulating real life (conditions)". WOWS is not striving to be realistic and neither do I advocate that it should be. But it can and should be authentic, because if WOWS is not even that, then one might as well start playing some fantasy space combat game and not a game featuring historic ships whose stats and performance are based on real world performance. For the largest and overall best equipped heavy cruiser of WW2 I think the people of WOWS can change things to make the ship better in WOWS and actually worth 41 Euros. Give "Prinz Eugen" some of that "Mikhail Kutuzow" and "Belfast" "special" treatment for example. Like an improvement in gunnery accuracy for example and also give her the Repair Party Consumable not only because many other Premium cruisers have it but also because surviving two atomic bomb blasts in the real world counts for something. Not to mention "Prinz Eugen's" exceptional advanced late war radar which should also count for something. If however the good people at WOWS do not want to sell their "Prinz Eugen" and rather keep her in the current utterly inept state, then by all means let the 41 Euro "Prinz Eugen" remain as inferior as she currently is in WOWS and release some more new and better less expensive Premiums instead. The same applies to "Tirpitz" either display the ship in an authentic manner making her worth 45 Euros, or keep displaying her in her currently inferior and authentic form which keeps becoming worse with each new superior Premium released and each successive "nerf" applied to her either directly or indirectly as has been the case since February 2016 up till now. Here is one overview of ship stat data of the past two weeks. To be sure, anyone who has had regularly checked the last "two weeks" on this website over the past few months can see that these stats have remained a constant. This is important, because the last "two weeks" weeds out all the stat data concerning the "Tirpitz" when she was first released in WOWS in 2015. Looking at the following stats it becomes quite clear that "Prinz Eugen" and "Tirpitz" are not only the most expensive Premium ships in WOWS but also the ONLY losers in their respective Tiers and classes. The price for "Missouri" is fictitious since one cannot directly buy the ship for Euros only as is the case with "Prinz Eugen" and "Tirpitz", because one needs to have 750,000 free XP first for the "Missouri". I can present many more of these data overviews. Instead of that I refer anyone to the "War Ships Today" website where one can easily check for oneself that generally EVERY PREMIUM cruiser and battleship is either the best performing ship in her Tier and class or among the top 3 in those cases where there is more than one Premium in a Tier and class, EXCEPT for "Prinz Eugen" and "Tirpitz". German cruisers and destroyers in WOWS are generally so badly depicted in WOWS that they generally are the stat losers in their respective Tiers and Classes, but the most expensive Premium cruiser "Prinz Eugen" is the ONLY Premium cruiser which actually is the worst performing cruiser in her Tier and class. If one only looks at the battleship Premiums (and ignoring the silly Arpeggio battleships), and battleships being the most played class, the fact that "Tirpitz" too is the only Premium battleship loser in her Tier and class becomes quite clear as well: - USA Premium battleships: 5 (all the publicly released ones are the top performing Premium battleships in their Tier) - German Premium battleships: 3 (3 of them are the only Premium battleships in their Tier, but only one of them is the worst performing battleship in her Tier ("TIRPITZ") and the ONLY Premium to do so in WOWS) - Japanese Premium battleships: 2 (1 ship is the only battleship in her Tier, and the other one is ranked behind the USA Premium in its Tier) - Russian Premium battleships: 1 (TOP PERFORMING BATTLESHIP IN HER TIER AHEAD OF THE USA PREMIUM, THE ONLY NON-USA PREMIUM WHERE THIS IS THE CASE) - British Premium battleships: 1 (Inferior to the USA and French Premium battleships in her Tier) - French Premium battleships: 1 (Inferior to the USA Premium battleship in her Tier) As can be seen the Premiums "Belfast", "Mikhail Kutuzow" and "Atago" not only are the clear winners in their respective Tiers and classes but Tier 7 Premium cruiser "Belfast" even outperforms the top Tier 8 Premium cruisers. And all three of them seriously and dramatically outperform the most expensive Premium cruiser in WOWS, the 41 Euro Tier 8 heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen". To add insult to injury even the clear Tier 8 cruiser class loser "Admiral Hipper" is still able to beat the Premium "Prinz Eugen" stat wise! In like manner Tier 8 silver doubloon line battleships "Amagi" and "Bismarck" seriously and dramatically outperform the most expensive Premium battleship in WOWS, the 45 Euro Tier 8 battleship "Tirpitz". That makes the "Tirpitz" the only Premium battleship which is not only beaten stat wise by silver doubloon battleships in her Tier and class but also the ONLY Premium battleship to finish dead last stat wise in her Tier and class, and that for 45 Euros! The Premium Tier 9 battleship "Missouri" however seriously and dramatically outperforms all other Tier 9 battleships. The "Missouri" however can be unlocked for "free" if a player has 750,000 free XP, this cannot be done for the 45 Euro "Tirpitz". There is NO valid reason, not commercially, not historically, nor from the point of game "balance" to have the two most expensive Premium ships underperform so badly compared to all other Premiums and silver doubloons ships in their respective Tiers and classes. That makes "Prinz Eugen" and "Tirpitz" not only the most expensive Premiums, but also the only PAY TO LOSE ships in WOWS, stat wise. ALL USA Premium battleships and even the British Premium battleship (Warspite, commissioned in 1915(!)) in WOWS are ALL given their end WW2 (1944-1945) equipment state, most specifically and most notably their Anti-Aircraft Artillery (AAA) armament EXCEPT for “Tirpitz”. Take for example the 1914 (!) commissioned Premium Tier 5 USA battleship “USS Texas”. That Premium ship has the AAA equipment state of 1945! If you look up every USA and British battleship it is quite clear that their equipment state is generally based on what they historically had in 1944+. Instead the WOWS “Tirpitz” is in sort of a hybrid 1941-1942 equipment state, meaning its Anti-Aircraft Artillery (AAA) is based on roughly the 1941-1942 equipment state. So "Tirpitz" on purpose is given a huge disadvantage compared to the USA and British Premium battleships and even compared to its line/tree equivalent “Bismarck”. Since “Tirpitz” in WOWS mostly faces Tier 8, 9 and 10 battles it means that more often than not its Anti-Aircraft Artillery (AAA) cannot deal as effective with enemy aircraft as the WOWS “Bismarck”. This is even more ridiculous from an authenticity point of view since no real world battleship, or ship for that matter, ever endured more aircraft attacks directed to it personally and beat them off successfully for years AND additionally shot down more aircraft in the process than any other (battle)ship in history. And there is no reason for this state of affairs, simply also give the "TIRPITZ" her authentic mid-1944 AAA setup of: 6x2 150mm (which used special AAA burst ammunition) 8x2 105mm 8x1 20mm 18x4 20mm 8x2 37mm Now IF the current WOWS “TIRPITZ” was statistically performing superior to all other Tier 8 battleships then there MIGHT be an argument to not bring “TIRPITZ” in WOWS up to “BISMARCK” strength in terms of accuracy, gun range etc. But the fact is that “TIRPITZ” is the worst performing Tier 8 battleship in WOWS in terms of damage inflicted and kill/death ratio. That is simply unacceptable for a ship which was bought for on average 70 Euros by players/customers. And it could be easily fixed by implementing an authentic “TIRPITZ” instead of the "nerfed" to mediocrity one which we have now. I can analyse every single Premium battleship in WOWS compared to its line/tree equivalent and everyone single one is superior to its line/tree equivalent EXCEPT for “TIRPITZ”. Take FOR EXAMPLE the "USS MISSOURI" compared to the "USS IOWA", the "USS MISSOURI" in WOWS has: - Better armour in some areas. - Better Anti-Aircraft Artillery (AAA) in terms of range and Damage Per Second. - Longer ranged heavy artillery and medium artillery. - Better consumable (Surveillance Radar). “TIRPITZ” is a WOWS Premium 2015 battleship and apparently it has not been "updated" to 2016+ Premium status compared to the other Premium battleships in their respective Tiers. This is unfair and unacceptable. For example, if the new standard for tier 8+ (Premiums or otherwise) is that they have special consumables that should be added to “TIRPITZ” as well. The “TIRPITZ” having torpedoes was an authentic historic fact and not a "consumable" or "flavour" so that does not compensate for “TIRPITZ” not having a "special" consumable like its sister “BISMARCK” or the “USS MISSOURI”. The Premium Tier 9 battleship “USS MISSOURI” in WOWS has better armour, better accuracy (without any real authentic real world justification for it) and several other extras which in WOWS puts “USS MISSOURI” way ahead of her sister ship Line Tier 9 battleship “USS IOWA”. The question beckons: why is Premium “TIRPITZ” inferior to “BISMARCK” in WOWS? Whereas Premium “USS MISSOURI” is superior to “USS IOWA” in WOWS, as indeed are all other Premium battleships compared to their line/tree equivalent. I can generally make comparisons like these between every Premium battleship and its line/tree equivalent in WOWS. EACH Premium battleship is superior in WOWS to its line/tree equivalent EXCEPT for “TIRPITZ”. Now if there were some "authentic" reason for “BISMARCK” being superior to “TIRPITZ” it would be fine with me and I would not waste one post or word on it. There is NO “authentic” reason for this state of affairs however. “TIRPITZ” in real life was superior to “BISMARCK” and so it should be in WOWS. That “BISMARCK” outperforms other Tier 8 ships is irrelevant. "TIRPITZ” is statistically not only severely outperformed by “BISMARCK” but also by generally all other Tier 8 line/tree battleships in the areas which matter the most (damage inflicted, kill/death ratio) as statistics make clear. And that makes “TIRPITZ” the ONLY Premium battleship in WOWS which is outperformed by generally all the other battleships in its Tier. And what has WOWS done to “TIRPITZ” compared to “BISMARCK”: “TIRPITZ” is less accurate (at best 257 meter dispersion) than “BISMARCK” with its heavy artillery (38 cm) (at best 255 meter dispersion). “TIRPITZ” has considerably less range on her secondary and tertiary sea target artillery. “TIRPITZ” has inferior 1941/1942 Anti Aircraft Artillery, both in range and in Damage Per second. “TIRPITZ” is slower than “BISMARCK”. “TIRPITZ” is inferior armoured compared to “BISMARCK” (the belt armour 315 to 320). “TIRPITZ” has no “Hydro Acoustic Search” consumable, meaning it has one less consumable than “BISMARCK”. Now compare that to what is “authentic” (= conforming to an original so as to reproduce essential features): “TIRPITZ” was AT LEAST as accurate as “BISMARCK” with its heavy artillery (38 cm). In fact “TIRPITZ” during its various gunnery trials built up an amazing and proven track record of accurate long range shooting unmatched by any other Kriegsmarine ship, including “BISMARCK”, or any other 1940s battleship for that matter. “TIRPITZ” had the EXCACT same secondary and tertiary sea target artillery as “BISMARCK” had. In fact the tertiary sea target artillery of “TIRPITZ” was better because all eight turrets were of the newer model, whereas in “BISMARCK” half of them were of the older model which led to them firing too long since the targeting computer was set to the newer model. “TIRPITZ” had the superior Anti Aircraft Artillery (AAA). The 15 cm secondary artillery had special “burst” ammunition which allowed them to fire on aircraft, something “BISMARCK” could never do because he never received that late war ammunition due to sinking. The 10.5 cm Anti Aircraft Artillery of “TIRPITZ” was better because all eight turrets were of the newer model, whereas in “BISMARCK” half of them were of the older model which led to them firing too long since the targeting computer was set to the newer model. No Kriegsmarine ship ever came close to how many aircraft were shot down by “TIRPITZ” (37+), least of all “BISMARCK” and no Kriegsmarine ship ever had a more powerful AAA armament than “TIRPITZ”. "TIRPITZ” was faster than “BISMARCK” and had significantly more powerful turbines. “TIRPITZ” did have thinner belt armour (horizontal protection) (315 mm) compared to “BISMARCK” (320 mm) BUT that was because “TIRPITZ” had superior deck armour (vertical protection) than “BISMARCK” had. “TIRPITZ” had the exact same “Hydro Acoustic” equipment on board as “BISMARCK”. Some more information on “TIRPITZ” heavy artillery (38 cm) gunnery accuracy comes from real world German wartime GKdos-100 files containing actual primary source gunnery training firing exercises data, which gives the “TIRPITZ” a dispersion of 112 meters at 21 km. This is a far cry from the base 276 meters (257 meters at best) which the “TIRPITZ” has been given in WOW. http://www.kbismarck.com/38cm.html Based on this primary source gunnery training firing exercises data “TIRPITZ” had the LEAST dispersion of any World War II battleship. Not only that but there are no Japanese, British or USA wartime gunnery training firing exercise records which demonstrate that any Japanese, British and/or USA battleship ever achieved a dispersion at 21 km of 112 meters during the 1940s. And that includes the “USS IOWA” class. “TIRPITZ” performed several live heavy artillery firing tests during her existence. For example in August 1941 it fired on the remote controlled target ship “HESSEN”, which was an old 140 meter long pre-dreadnought capital ship. Most interestingly, the “HESSEN” was hit 9 times by “TIRPITZ” with her 38 cm rounds at a range of 25 km (25000 meters, 27340 yards) during the tests for example. Those 9 hits at 25 km were the longest range consistent gun hits in the world by any battleship in the 1940s and this performance to my knowledge has never been equalled or outdone by any other battleship. “HESSEN” was a radio controlled target ship especially up-armoured and altered to use it for target practice. “HESSEN” could move up to 21 knots, and was turning during the gunnery practice to make it a more difficult target to hit for “TIRPITZ”. "HESSEN" could change speed, turn and actively smoke, all remote controlled. Here an image of "HESSEN" being targeted by "TIPITZ": To put the historic battleship gunnery accuracy data into perspective based on the German Kriegsmarine and US Navy real world training firing exercise evaluation figures the following comparison can be made: - a “USS NEW MEXICO” battleship firing twelve 14"/35.6 cm naval guns at her maximum 1.75 rounds per minute at a hit rate of .10 hits per gun per minute would have 2.10 hits per minute at a range of 30 km. - a “USS COLORADO” battleship firing eight 16"/40.6 cm naval guns at her maximum 1.5 rounds per minute at a hit rate of .10 hits per gun per minute would have 1.20 hits per minute at a range of 30 km. - a “ USS NORTH CAROLINA” battleship firing nine 16"/40.6 cm naval guns at her maximum 2 rounds per minute at a hit rate of .12 hits per gun per minute would have 2.16 hits per minute at a range of 30 km. - a “TIRPITZ” battleship firing eight 15"/38 cm naval guns at her maximum 3.3 rounds per minute at a hit rate of .225 hits per gun per minute would have 5.94 hits per minute at a range of 30 km. There are also US Navy estimates based on US Navy statistical data. A US Naval War College study performed during World War II which was not based on actual real world training firing exercises estimated that an “USS IOWA” Class (BB-61) battleship firing with top spot against a target the size of the German battleship “BISMARCK” would be (at best) expected to achieve the following hit percentage: - 2.7% "USS IOWA" hits at 30,000 yards (274 hm / 27 km) for “USS IOWA's” nine 16"/40.6 cm naval guns. This US Navy War College “USS IOWA” Class battleship World War II study hit percentage of 2.7% at 27 km against a target the size of “BISMARCK” is not exactly all that impressive compared to the: - 11.1% “TIRPITZ” hit percentage at 30 km; - 6.4% “SCHARNHORST” hit percentage at 30 km; - 4.8% “ADMIRAL SCHEER” hit percentage at 30 km; as described in the German wartime GKdos-100 files which are based on the evaluation of actual and repeated WW2 gunnery training firing exercises. The “USS IOWA” study figures are even less impressive compared to the actual German test results when one considers that the number of hits generally increase when the range is decreased, as is evident from both training and combat. In other words the "TIRPITZ", "SCHARNHORST" and "ADMIRAL SCHEER" hit percentages at 27 km are higher than the ones listed at 30 km above. Which is even more bad news for the "USS IOWA". And I have not even mentioned that for example all USA battleships have their theoretical highest rate of fire for their heavy artillery in WOWS which they never actually could attain in real life, neither during training nor in actual combat. Whereas "BISMARCK" and "TIRPITZ" with 38 cm heavy artillery demonstrably could fire an amazing 3.3 rounds per minute, these two ships however both have been given a low rate of fire of about only 2 rounds per minute which is in WOWS about equal to the best USA battleships at tier 7-10. And those USA battleships in real life could not even reach 2 rounds per minute during training, let alone in combat. For those hearty souls who are interested in the details of the AAA armament of the USA battleships compared to "Tirpitz" in WOWS, here is some of it:
  14. Vor kurzem gab es ein Update zugunsten der New Orleans. ( dringend benötigt) Im zuge dessen habe ich aus reinem Interesse mal geguckt wo stehen die einzelnen T8 Kreuzer denn so vom durchschnittlichen Schaden her. Dabei wollte ich gar nicht die overall Statistiken sehen denn die sind , in meinen Augen , nicht vergleichbar. (Atago zählt da zb. noch rein als sie jeder Spieler am Anfang als einzigen Premium 8er im Spiel gekauft hatte und instant genuked wurde von BB´s) Daher habe ich mit die Stats angeguckt die Spieler mit mindestens 100 Gefechten auf dem Schiff leisten können und speziell habe ich geguckt, was schaffen die 3 besten Spieler auf diesem Schiff in mind100 Spielen für einen durchschnittlichen Schaden. Ich liste der Reihenfolge nach auf. Mikhail Kutuzov Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR Yoshi_EU 159 74.84% 122,959 3.6 1.6 2.6 41% 6% 2,339 RNGsama 134 73.88% 113,182 3.9 1.6 5.3 40% 5% 2,301 V137N0W 189 63.49% 112,480 5.4 1.6 3.1 38% 5% 2,168 Was wir hier sehen is nen Average Damage von 123 000 auf 160 spielen...das hab ich , als recht guter Spieler, derzeit auf keinem meiner Zehner Kreuzer. Jeder weiß, Kutuzov, Longrange, HE Spam, Smoke,Super AA, Torps für den Nahkampf die auch mal nen angeschlagenes Schlachtschiff rausballern. Im großen und ganzen in diesem Spiel das OP Schiff schlechthin für mich. Mit keinem ist es einfacher seinen durchschnittlichen Schaden zu Pushen. Keine angst vor T10 Gefechten ( im Gegenteil). Chapayev Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR loisbest 243 71.60% 95,187 3.4 1.4 1.9 36% 5% 2,085 Lachanar 111 72.97% 89,554 2.7 1.3 2.6 36% 30% 1,992 Skalzam 122 66.39% 85,233 3.3 1.5 2.2 34% 20% 1,964 als zweiten haben wir hier die Chapayev...die "Chappy" ist ähnlich wie die Kutuzov HE Spam, Longrange, Dezente AA, Super Tarnwert...der einzige Grund warum sie wohl keine Stats wie die Kutuzov hat sind fehlende Reichweite und fehlender Smoke. aber 95.000 is schon nen heftiger Schnitt. Mogami Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR ChromeEagle 109 58.72% 85,655 4.9 1.4 5.5 27% 5% 2,161 Truemmerteil 104 55.77% 84,433 3.8 1.7 6.0 27% 4% 2,235 IceyJones 240 59.17% 81,346 2.7 1.7 3.9 32% 4% 2,126 Wieso die Mogami jetzt vor der Atago steht ist in meinen Augen klar dem geschuldet das man sie vor nicht allzu langer Zeit noch als Extrem Longrange HE Spammer gespielt hatte. 18km Reichweite , 15mal 155mm HE, bei nem Tarnwert von 9,1km. Der Nerf den sie hier bekommen hatte war (leider) nötig. alles in allem noch ein gutes Schiff wenn sie es auch falsch angegangen haben mit dem Nerf ( unter aktuellen Bedingungnen kaum zu spielen mit den 155ern, welche bei gleichbleibender Reichweite aber immer noch verdammt spaß machen könnten, hoffen wir hier noch auf einen Split der Linien) Alles in allem wird sich die Statistik der Mogami aber mit großer Sicherheit unter die Atago schieben. ATAGO Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR GrandFruit 146 65.07% 86,928 9.0 1.3 1.3 35% 4% 2,026 Gigi505 156 74.36% 85,020 3.8 1.5 1.4 39% 7% 2,128 Yorshka 375 66.40% 84,513 3.0 1.2 1.0 39% 4% 1,955 Atago das gleiche wie Takao, HE spam, potente AP bei Breitseite, Torps, Heal, zwar weich aber recht wendig. Edinburgh Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR Czachcia 124 72.58% 76,327 3.5 1.5 2.5 42% 7% 1,677 Little_Rowboat 102 62.75% 75,625 2.9 1.6 2.3 47% 14% 1,669 Dropsiq 139 72.66% 75,440 3.5 1.5 2.7 45% 11% 1,670 Edinburgh, Oh ein reiner AP Kreuer im Mittelfeld, Warum ist klar...es ist keine reine AP wie sie Beispielsweise die Hipper und Eugen nutzen müssen, verfrühter Detonationspunkt, weniger Overpens, sie hat Smoke, 4mal, also auch eine erhöhte Überlebensfähigkeit overall wenn auch keine aktive wie bei Takao und Atago. Admiral Hipper Top Players Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR loisbest 100 62.00% 72,549 2.6 1.2 4.3 38% 1% 2,051 fUBAR_REKt 112 61.61% 67,080 2.4 1.2 2.8 40% 9% 1,887 _Vrash_ 210 68.10% 65,309 3.2 1.4 4.0 38% 13% 2,025 Admiral Hipper, muss ich jetzt mal eherlich sagen das mir SPieler Loisbest hier ein bissel meinen Post versaut, als ich vor ca ner Woche noch die ganzen Daten kontrollierte war noch fUBAR_REKt bester Spieler. Gut, 72K ist ein gutes Ergebnis, was hat die Hipper, ne passable Reichweite, Potentes AP ( das eine 100 % Breitseite braucht um ordentlich zu penetrieren, gute Torps, guter Winkel dieser Torps, du musst nah ran um sie zu werfen, bist eigentlich dauernd offen, musst dich eigentlich auf dein Ap verlassen da schlechte Brandwahrscheinlichkeit , Schlechter HE Schaden, wenigsten Kanonen von allen T8 Kreuzern. Nicht so einfach zu spielen um da einen 70k Average hinzulegen. und auch als Lowtier fühlt sie sich nicht wohl. New Orleans Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR MFour 100 70.00% 66,332 2.6 1.4 2.3 37% 0% 2,116 DeprivedPickle 109 66.06% 65,888 4.1 1.4 2.2 36% 0% 2,082 Mr_Dced 107 66.36% 62,112 1.9 1.0 2.7 39% 0% 1,893 New Orlenas, frisch gebuffed, sicherlich noch nicht groß in die Spitze mit eingeflossen aber als reiner Unterstützungskreuzer mit dem niedrigsten Healthpool auf T8 ( berichtigt mich wenn ich mich irre) , ohne Torps,potentes AP, semi Potentes HE mit semi potenter Brandwahrscheinlichkeit , lediglich ne gute AA und Radar, ohne große Reichweite ein respektabler Average den Mfour drauf hat.Wenn man jetzt bedenkt wie schlecht die New Orlenas im Vergleich bisher war und in der Aufzählung immer noch nicht letzter ist und das Obwohl sie so schlecht ist das sie sogar nen Buff bekam. "nuff said" Prinz Eugen Name Battles WR Dmg ▼ K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ MBH TH WTR VojoX 119 61.34% 64,573 2.2 0.9 1.1 37% 9% 1,728 Mckirt 102 64.71% 61,053 2.4 1.1 2.0 39% 10% 1,816 Bollzilla_1 156 60.26% 57,851 1.4 0.8 3.0 36% 13% 1,634 Da haben wir die Eugen...gut 10k mehr leben als die NO, höhere Reichweite, Torps, Turtleback Panzerung der Zita, aber letzter. Was sagt uns die Auflistung. Sicher bringt sie nicht den Schnitt über die gesamte Breite der Spieler. Es sagt uns aber das ein guter Spieler auf der Kutuzov nahezu das DOPPELTE an Schaden macht wie ein guter Eugen Spieler. Klar werden viele gute Spieler sich die Eugen gar nicht gekauft haben weil sie von vornherein wissen das sie nicht vergleichbar ist. Man kann diese, oder auch die Hipper, nicht erfolgreich im Competitiv nutzen, man ist als Lowtier im Zehner Match immer der Dumme, dein He ist nicht annähernd so Potent das du groß Schaden machen kannst ( brauchst massiv Glück mit dem RNG für Brände) Aber was uns die Auflistung noch Zeigt ist CL>CA und HE>AP. Das Meta im Spiel ist nur noch HE Spam...wer am meisten HE spammt macht den meisten Damage, wer das dann auch noch aus ner extremen Reichweite oder aus dem Smoke herraus tun kann macht seinen Schaden. Und dazu kommt noch das es nicht so ist dass du als CA mehr aushältst als ein CL. Einer gewinkelten Chapayev drücke ich als Hipper gar nicht mit ap, währned er mich schön alle 8 sek mit 12 mal HE eindeckt. ( mir ist bewusst das der Unterschied eines CL zum CA lediglich die Geschützgröße war, aber rein Balancetechnisch ist es , in meinen Augen, so wie es jetzt ist, nicht optimal) Was ich mit diesem Post nicht will ist das die Eugen oder Hipper zu HE Spammern werden, aber gebt ihnen mehr durchhaltevermögen, nen Heal, oder nen besseren Reload damit ich mit dem schlecht penetrierenden AP (zu leichte Geschosse) meine Chancen erhöhen kann auch Schaden an den man zu bringen der dank Heal eben auch länger durchzuhalten. Auch ne Möglichkeit wäre der Zugang zum T9/10 Modul um dann eventuell noch mehr Range oder das Reloadmodul einsetzen kann. Ich habe übrigens auch bei den Spielern mit mindestens 250 Gefechten geguckt...auch da ist die Eugen immer noch halb so gut wie die Kutuzov. Hier ist ein rebalancing dringend erforderlich meiner Meinung nach. Ich bin auf eine Diskussion gespannt. Mfg Zschernie
  15. Odem Mortis Community Cup It has begun... The Quarterfinals are about to kick in... The footage of the LIVE Group draft is online now, thanks to Flamu! We wish all participants best of luck as well as a lot of fun during the Tournament!
  16. Drunken_Jedi

    Violet Stet Pedder

    Just a quickie guys, I recently acquired the Prinz Eugen due to the insane amount of Gold that came with the Whale sized Belfast package I bought (I have no soul now). Mainly because I couldn't be bothered to grind the German CA line for the Hipper when I could just get the Eugen . Also because Kancolle Prinz is pretty cute . I've noticed though that with a very average 46k damage per battle (last few games have been 70-80k so should improve over time) I'm getting unicum rating WTR of over 1500 in it. Is this mainly due to how few people actually own this ship nevermind do well in it? It feels like a Hellcat atm for pedding those stats, not that such things are really all that important. Anyone noticed what other ships offer insane WTR ratings for such average performances?
  17. LittleWhiteMouse

    Premium Ship Review: Prinz Eugen

    Maybe she has a glandular problem. Quick Summary: A premium version of the Admiral Hipper-class cruiser (and not a lot of differences besides). Taken on her own merits, she's an excellent escort-ship with high velocity guns with good AP performance and range. She shares the fragility of all high tier cruisers combined with a large surface detection range. One of the best trainers in the game due to her premium camouflage. Cost: Available in bundles starting at €40.10. Patch & Date Written: - September 4th through 20th, 2016. Closest in-Game Contemporary: The Tier 8 German Heavy Cruiser, Admiral HipperDegree of Similarity:Clone / Sister-Ship / Related Class/ Similar Role / Unique The Prinz Eugen is the Admiral Hipper's fat younger sister. There, I said it. Their stats are almost identical to one another except for some very (very) minor differences. PROs: Very large hit point pool for a tier 8 cruiser at 45,000hp. This is more hit points than even the Zao, the tier 10 IJN heavy cruiser and the tier 9 cruisers of the Soviets and American ship lines. Has anti-torpedo bulges, reducing torpedo damage by 10% Shell muzzle velocity of 925m/s makes for easy gunnery at range and small lead times. Rather good range for a cruiser at 17.5km. Fast turret rotation speed of 7.2' per second. Excellent AP performance with an alpha strike of 5,900 per shell. Decent torpedo broadside armament of two triple launchers per side delivering 13,700 alpha strike per fish. Good AA armament. She has access to the German Hydroacoustic Search consumable with its improved active time and range. Premium camouflage provides 50% bonus Captain Training on top of normal bonuses. A second camouflage option provides 10% bonus credit earning. CONs: Large & fragile citadel with only 80mm worth of protection at best. Very vulnerable to plunging fire. Her deck armour, upper hull, bow and stern are only 25mm thick -- easily overmatched by 380mm+ rifles. Small broadside armament of only eight 203mm rifles with poor HE DPM and chance to set fires (13%). Torpedoes are rather short ranged at a mere 6.0km. Top speed is only a modest 32.0 knots with a large turning circle of 770m. Large surface detection range of 14.9km -- unable to fire from stealth, even when fully specialized. Almost identical to the Admiral Hipper performance wise. You'll struggle to find anything remarkably different between the two. Two camo schemes -- one ship. The default premium camouflage is in the background with the 3,000 doubloon version in the foreground. Both provide 50% bonus Captain training but the eagle version adds another 10% to credit earning. Incidentally, to pay for itself, this second camouflage scheme has to earn (by itself) 4,500,000 credits to add up to to the straight up conversion of doubloons to credits. An average 1,500 base experience game in the Prinz Eugen nets about 250,000 credits standard (without premium), the 10% camo would add another 25,000 onto that. So it would only take 180 games with this kind of performance for the Prinz Eugen's premium camo to pay itself off. Heh, I can't believe I said "only". Back already? It's review time once again. For those suffering from eye strain from squinting at my long winded critiques, NoZoupForYou has kindly offered the services of his honeyed voice to save you from having to read this whole thing. I first examined the Prinz Eugen when she was first made available in the World of Warships API back in late August. My initial impressions were rather disappointing with a caveat that I expected her to present us with some form of gimmick and/or surprise consumable. It's nice being right. I wish I could have been right in a more exciting manner, but ... well, let's take a closer look at the ship and if her special feature is special enough to warrant purchasing her. The Zoup Can Options There's nothing that really stands out about the Prinz Eugen. As expected, she has access to the German Hydroacoustic Search consumable, which should be noted for being better than those of other nations. This is active for 118s with a torpedo detection range of 3.84km and a ship acquisition range of 5.58km. Compare this to the other nations at 96s active time, 3.12km torpedo acquisition and 4.44km ship acquisition for other tier 8 cruisers. The Prince Eugen is the second premium (after the Texas) to have the option of a purchased second camouflage pattern. Unlike the Texas, this actually provides a bonus. Consumables: Damage Control Party Hydroacoustic Search or Defensive Fire Float Plane fighter Module Upgrades: Five slots, standard German Cruiser options.Premium Camouflage: Tier 6+ Standard with a twist. This provides 50% bonus experience gains, 3% reduction in surface detection and 4% reduction in enemy accuracy. This camouflage provides 50% bonus captain training. In addition, players have the option of purchasing a second camouflage pattern which provides a 10% bonus to credit earning on top of the benefits listed above. This will set players back 3,000 doubloons. Firepower Primary Battery: Eight 203mm rifles in 4x2 turrets. Secondary Battery: Twelve 105mm rifles in 6x2 turrets. Torpedoes: G7aT1 torpedoes in 4x3 launchers with two off each side. Let's start with some good news. The Prinz Eugen has amazing turret rotation speed for a heavy cruiser at 7.2' per second. This is better than even the fast traverse speed of the Soviet Light Cruisers, Chapayev and Mikhail Kutuzov and it puts the IJN and USN Heavy Cruisers to shame. So there's that. Now let's get to the not-so-good news. For a tier 8 cruiser, the Admiral Hipper-class is under armed. Her eight 203mm rifles are competing with the 9-gun broadside of the New Orleans, the ten-guns of the Mogami and Atago and the twelve 152mm rifles found on the Chapayev and Mikhail Kutuzov. When it comes to throwing high explosive shells, the Prinz Eugen just cannot keep up. German HE is notorious for under performing and the Prinz Eugen does not escape this stereotype. In terms of raw damage potential, even the New Orleans has 17% more DPM than the Prinz Eugen. When you compare her with HE specialists like the IJN, the disparity jumps tremendously, with the Atago having 34% higher and the Mogami managing a whopping 43% higher HE DPM. The one advantage her HE will have over the Mogami's 155mm or the Soviet 152mm is their ability to land penetrating hits on 32mm sections of deck and hull that's so prevalent among the higher tiers. Things look a little rosier still once you analyze her armour piercing shells. Among the 203mm armed cruisers, the Admiral Hipper-class leads the pack in damage over time, only falling behind the Soviet 152mm armed cruisers for ships of her tier. But there's a big caveat here. As nice as her armour piercing potential is, it's hardly the universal ammunition fired from cruisers. It's more of a situational and the number of viable target for her AP shells, particularly at range, falls away. While it's perfect for nailing cruisers, especially the broadside of cruisers at any range, it just won't serve you well against thicker skinned targets, like an angled Battleship. Where's a soft skinned Admiral-class Battlecruiser when you really need to farm damage? Still, don't dismiss her AP entirely when facing enemy Dreadnoughts. If they're giving you their broadside, punish them for it. You may not get citadels but you can collect a healthy tithe before they smarten up. To be successful with the Prinz Eugen, you must be very dynamic with your ammunition selection, capitalizing on any opportunity to use your tremendous AP shells to pad your anemic HE damage. The shell normalization changes that occurred in mid to late August 2016 have been kind to the German AP shells, increasing their normalization from 5' to 7'. To be certain: If you get the opportunity to use your AP, your Prinz Eugen will absolutely own face in a spectacular fashion. Whether these brief intervals of excellence will warm you up to your new chariot or frustrate you with their infrequency will largely determine if you enjoy the ship or not. For torpedoes, the Prinz Eugen has the same four triple launchers mounted amidships. These fire the infamous German G7aT1 torpedo found on almost every single German Cruiser and Battleship in the game (seriously, only the Karlsruhe at tier 4 has something different at the moment). These torpedoes feel rather short ranged by tier 8 with a 6.0km running time. The Prinz Eugen is not a Gneisenau or Tirpitz, with armour and survivability enough to bully her way to close range encounters. This limits the utility of her torpedoes to ambush situations or for smacking enemies that over extend. Summary: Excellent AP performance contrasted by awful HE shells. The Prinz Eugen really struggles to match the HE DPM of rival ships. Good gun handling, including turret traverse and shell flight times. This makes gunnery very comfortable. Generally considered quite under-armed for a tier 8 cruiser. Her torpedo armament is heavy but painfully short ranged for her tier making it less useful than it could be. The Prinz Eugen doesn't feel like it packs the firepower of a tier 8 cruiser. But then again, the firepower of most cruisers at tier 8 is rather sketchy. The Mikhail Kutuzov and Chapayev feel under armed, even with their twelve 152mm rifles -- especially when you have to hammer heavily armoured targets that are so prevalent within their matchmaking spread. The New Orleans is the New Orleans for crying out loud. Only the IJN Heavy Cruisers Mogami and Atago feel like they have a threatening main armament but they're both painfully short ranged for their tier. I guess the Admiral Hipper-class (with the Prinz Eugen) are about par for the course for a tier 8 cruiser now that I really think about it... Rivals: Chapayev & Mikhail Kutuzov The tier 8 Soviet Cruisers are armed with twelve 152mm rifles. This gives them some of the best potential DPM for their tier. But they're hampered by their small size. Due to HE penetration mechanics (equal to roughly 1/6th of their shell diameter), the Soviet high explosive rounds struggle to do damage to anything thicker than 25mm. This limits these vessels to focusing solely on farming their damage on soft targets like cruisers and destroyers or the superstructure of battleships. The flat arc and high shell velocity of their AP rounds can spell the doom for soft skinned ships. This makes these Soviet cruisers very dangerous adversaries for the Prinz Eugen -- being a threat at all ranges. They're faster too, though only marginally so. This can greatly frustrate attempts to control the engagement ranges at which they're being fought. However, these Soviet cruisers are very thin skinned and at nearly any angle, your AP shells are more than sufficient for putting an enormous level of hurt on them.Advantages: Fearsome levels of DPM and dangerous potential fire-starters. Has the speed advantage to dictate engagement ranges. The Mikhail Kutuzov can use smoke to fire from concealment.Disadvantages: Squishy as all get out and deathly allergic to AP rounds. Vulnerable to citadel penetrations at all effective ranges of the Prinz Eugen. Maneuverability Top Speed: 32.0 knotsTurning Radius: 770mRudder Shift: 10.9s The Prinz Eugen is not a fast cruiser. She's not especially slow either, unless you're comparing her directly to destroyers or the Atago. This gives her sufficiently long legs to keep pace with most Battleships she could choose to escort, including the fleet-footed Bismarck sisters. This isn't enough, however, to run down a scampering destroyer that doesn't wish to be caught -- particularly the ridiculously fast Soviet destroyers that can have speeds in excess of 40 knots. Your only hope to close the distance on them would be for them to make a mistake -- most notably slowing to a stop to hide in smoke. What is disappointing with the Prinz Eugen is her large turning circle coupled with a rather sluggish rudder shift time (There's been a lot of disappointment already in this review, hasn't there?). At nearly 11 seconds and with a 770m turning circle, she's never going to be considered graceful. This is a shame given her only modest top speed. The one bit of good news though is that she will never out turn the traverse rate of her turrets. DurabilityHit Points: 45.000Citadel Protection: Up to 80mm.Bow & Deck Armour: Minimum of 25mm each.Torpedo Damage Reduction: 10% When top tier, the Prinz Eugen can face-tank 356mm Battleship shells at close range. How cool is that? It's also largely impractical. While her 25mm of bow and deck armour is sufficient to bounce these shells, her turret faces are not. Taking blows to her exposed barbettes from a snout full of 283mm Scharnhorst cannons will still potentially result in penetrating hits. I mean, if your opponents are dumb and try and blast the waterline of a charging German cruiser with AP, more power to you. However, I wouldn't bank on my cruiser coming out healthy when trying to block battleship caliber rounds with my face. Short of this, the Prinz Eugen's armour is largely insufficient from providing any kind of protection from Battleship fire. This shouldn't be unexpected. What's more interesting is looking at her defenses against attacks from cruisers and destroyers. For high explosive protection, the news isn't that great. Her 25mm of deck armour provides relative immunity to 149mm or smaller high explosive rounds. This will fend off the 127mm and 130mm shells from destroyers, resulting in a plethora of zero-damage hits. This limits the areas where destroyers can chip at her hit points to just her superstructure. Beyond this, the only real armoured parts of the ship are her turret faces, her armoured bridge and her belt. None of these are particularly thick. At ranges inside of 12km, you shouldn't be surprised to receive potential citadel penetrations from even 152mm armed cruisers provided their guns are sufficiently high velocity to provide a flat arc. There is still a bit of good news for the Prinz Eugen, however. She has a lot of hit points -- more than any other tier 8 cruiser. This can provide quite a nice safety net against smaller caliber weapons. In addition, unlike the Soviet Cruisers, she does have anti-torpedo protection, providing a 10% base damage reduction from strikes. Lastly, her citadel is fully submerged. That's something the IJN Heavy Cruisers cannot boast. You'd be hard pressed to be able to slip a credit card in between this Farragut-launched torpedo and the Prinz Eugen's hull. Rivals: Mogami & Atago The IJN sisters are very dangerous opponents for the Prinz Eugen -- but also a potential for a bit of glory. These ships like to get in close. Limited by their short reach, to successfully engage a target, they can slip within 14km without being aware that they're doing it. This makes them vulnerable to reprisals -- especially with their above-the-water citadels that are so easy to bulls-eye. But it pays not to underestimate them. The Mogami and Atago are the once and future queens of the tier 8 cruisers. While the Mogami has been dethroned, the Atago has since taken up the mantle and with good reason. The broadside from their ten 203mm rifles (or fifteen 155mm rifles from one of the Mogami's builds) is absolutely fearsome. These guns are laser accurate like all cruisers (seriously, why do all cruisers have the same dispersion?) so they're going to be just as able as you are to land shots where they need them to be. As if their guns weren't enough, both sisters boast 10km torpedoes that hit like trucks. Both ships are capable of launching them from stealth too at just outside of 9km. If you suspect one is in the area, launch your aircraft immediately. The engagement is bound to be short and brutal.Advantages: Very fast, very stealthy with more firepower and better torpedoes than you. And the Atago can heal. Yeah, you're screwed. Disadvantages: Short ranged with an enormous citadel that peaks well above the waterline. Feast well. Concealment & Camouflage Surface Detection Range: 14.9km Air Detection Range: 9.4 km Minimum Surface Detection Range: 11.45km Concealment Penalty while Firing: +6.1km (vs 17.5km gun range) I am frustrated by the Prinz Eugen's concealment rating. It's hard not to feel that it was carefully engineered to ensure that the ship would not be able to fire from concealment in open water. This shouldn't surprise anyone -- Wargaming seems to be actively trying to mitigate the number of ships that can fire from open-water concealment and we should expect to see it occurring less and less in the future. Even if you were to maximize her modules, captain skills and camouflage, when firing her guns she would still outstrip her stealth rating by 50m. This kind of heavy investment is still worthwhile, even if it's not going to allow you to embrace the stealth-firing meta for cruisers. Because of the Prinz Eugen's fragility, concealment becomes one of her best defenses. Simply by silencing her guns and opening up the range, you can greatly increase her survivability. A special note should be made about her premium camouflage. If you're having a hard time seeing the difference, it's not just you. "Premium Camouflage" for the Prinz Eugen initially meant "rust removal". This was the camouflage pattern all of the Community Contributors played with during the testing period. We were all pretty salty about it. It was later revealed that this would be replaced with a camouflage pattern from Operation: Rhine Exercise where she escorted the Bismarck to the North Atlantic. So while we were all testing and writing our reviews, we didn't have any bonus Captain Training. The Prinz Eugen was as boring a premium as the camouflage she was decorated in at the time. The Prinz Eugen is designed to be a specialized Captain Trainer. For all of the mediocrity you have so far seen in this review over the Admiral Hipper, where she really stands out is the 50% bonus experience gains to your Captain Training. Keep in mind that Captain experience is calculated after ship experience, so any bonuses to the former greatly affect the latter. A 2000 ship experience game would be worth 3000 captain experience in the Prinz Eugen. This will also stack with any other experience modifiers such as events, flags, signals, etc. There's a second option which you can purchase (!) for the Prinz Eugen for 3,000 doubloons which will add on an additional 10% credit earning bonus. This can be selected through the camouflage sub-tab where they're normally applied. Anti-Aircraft DefenseAA Battery Calibers: 105mm / 40mm / 20mmAA Umbrella Ranges: 4.5km / 3.5km / 2.0kmAA DPS per Aura: 100 / 135 / 44 The Prinz Eugen has some rather decent AA power, at least at range. Her 20mm auto-cannons aren't of much use. Her raw AA power is superior to that of the Soviet Chapayev (207dps) & Mikhail Kutuzov (264dps), the Japanese Mogami (127dps) & Atago (90dps) but she comes in behind her sister ship, the Admiral Hipper (288) and the American New Orleans (289). The only real drawback is the 4.5km range on her 100mm rifles. All of the other cruisers at her tier have a minimum of a 5.0km range on their large caliber AA guns. This hampers her ability as an AA-escort cruiser unless you heavily invest into specializing the range of her auras. Still, she also has a float-plane fighter to provide an additional 60dps. Once you combine this with her Defensive Fire consumable, this will melt same tier and lower aircraft with alacrity, especially with a Captain fully specialized towards AA defense. You pay for this with the slight loss to your gun performance and losing the ability to the take the excellent German Hydroacoustic Search. Rivals: New Orleans The New Orleans understands well what it's like to be an underestimated, under appreciated tier 8 cruiser. She doesn't have legions of fans drooling over her lines like the Atago and Mogami. She doesn't have a dedicated developer team ensuring that the 'Soviet bias' perception is forever whispered on the lips of every disgruntled Western player. This may explain why the New Orleans has a chip on her shoulder. And you better pay her a healthy bit of respect for it. The New Orleans hates those saucy curves found on those more showy cruisers. You can angle and flaunt your lines all you want -- the Belle of the South will step on your throat. At ranges inside of 12km, the New Orleans can and will citadel penetrate you even at a 61' angle -- an angle where even the Yamato's own 460mm guns would bounce. She has some of the best normalization found in the game. And if she knows how to use it? Your only hope is to open up the range or out trade her. And don't try sneaking up. She's got eyes on the back of her head with her radar.Advantages: Excellent normalization values with good AP performance allows her to keep using AP when others have to switch ammunition types. She has decent HE to back this up. Agile as all get out.Disadvantages: Shorter ranged, worse AP DPM values -- she can't out trade you in a straight up slug match. Also no torpedoes. I expected the unhistorical premium camouflage to cause more of a stir but my usual lines of communication have been rather quiet on the subject. Oh, there was the early outrage of "how dare Wargaming make us have to pay for an extra feature!" that will always happen. It happened with the USS Texas when her star-spangled paint job came out. But yeah, not much of a fuss over her Eagle paint job. Colour me pleasantly surprised. I think it looks rather pretty. Overall Impressions Skill Floor: Simple/ Casual / Challenging / Difficult Skill Ceiling: Low/ Moderate / High / Extreme This is not a n00b friendly ship. High tier game play is rife with balance issues and the Prinz Eugen wades into that mess without a lot in the way of gimmicks to make a good showing there. You're forever crossing your fingers and hoping to end up as top tier to get the most out of her. When you do get matched up against tier 9s and tier 10s you're hoping for a rare cruiser-heavy engagement. There, she could do you proud. But at present, the meta in tier 8 to 10 is all about Battleships and your large hit point pool is just asking to be farmed. I really struggled on where to place her skill ceiling. It's not like you're spinning many plates to get the most out of the Prinz Eugen. By staying at range, your concealment can be summarized by an unfair false dichotomy: don't shoot and you won't be spotted. If you the pull the trigger, you will be shot at. I wish I could say there was more to it than that but the risks of closing the distance are just so insurmountable that even making judicious use of island cover is only going to keep you safe for so long. The meta is really all about making yourself an unappealing target -- or at least less appealing than the ships around you. You're biding your time, hoping for opportunities to make good use of your AP rounds but those are few and far between with the deficit of cruisers willing to close range with you. And do you really think you can beat the Battleships to the punch on those targets? Yeah, it's discouraging. Mouse's Summary: A high tier cruiser in an unfriendly meta which punishes high tier cruisers. Potentially a great trainer -- provided you can make her perform. That 50% training bonus only really kicks in if you can manage to do as much 2/3s the experience in your Prinz Eugen as you could with the Scharnhorst or Tirpitz. If you struggle to match that then the Prinz Eugen isn't doing you any favours. You'll live and love this ship based on her AP performance. If you can't get that to work, or if you're an HE spamming scrub, you'll find it difficult to warm up to her. I really enjoyed her as an AA escort, surprisingly. By now you've probably been exposed to more than a few reviews of the fat Admiral Hipper. Without having watched any of them myself, I'm going to guess that they're largely negative. Why is that? Well, for one, there's the whole issue of presentation. When we received the Prinz Eugen, she didn't have premium camouflage. She was a flat, battleship grey without any rust and that's about it. So she wasn't a pretty ship to look at. Add in no apparent special features and yeah, it was hard to sing any form of praises for this fat Admiral Hipper clone. So a lot of reviewers didn't. We weren't told at the time the embargo on content was lifted that the Prinz Eugen would be getting a new paint job and a 50% bonus to Captain training -- that came a belated two days or so after the fact. Details on the second camouflage scheme weren't available until well after the ship was released to the public. As far as first impressions go, this wasn't the greatest. So let's take her on her actual merits: She's essentially a chubby Admiral Hipper with increased Captain Training. And I'll be honest, the Admiral Hipper would not be my chariot of choice to try and earn a butt ton of experience consistently to accelerate progression on a Captain, wicked tuba solos accompanying game play or not. The high tier meta in World of Warships is in a bit of a mess right now. It's alright(ish) at tier 8 but when you find yourself in tier 10 games, a lot of the flaws in the game's current design are exemplified and cruisers are arguably the class that suffers the most for it. Opinions will vary of course. The way experience gains are calculated is additive with the base experience earned (modified only by a premium account) for the match used to calculate Captain Experience. So bonus ship experience doesn't immediately translate to bonus Captain Training. So the premium camouflage doesn't "double-dip" into increased Captain training with a nice multiplicative bonus. Instead you'll see it added on at the end. Oh well, a girl can dream. This doesn't make the Prinz Eugen a bad ship. This doesn't mean that someone can't make her perform. The learning curve is steeper on the Prinz Eugen and the maximums you can achieve in her are limited by her performance. You're going to have to do an enormous amount of work to get the same returns a Battleship or Destroyer might with less effort. If you enjoy the challenge, awesome. If you're cool with having to move heaven and earth for modest gains, more power to you. I salute and respect your tenacity -- I like challenging ships too. If you don't, well, this probably is one premium you'll want to pass on. And as a rather belated review, I can say that without worrying that I'm still struggling with my initial bias. Lert, in the Admiral Hipper (front) and my Prinz Eugen (rear). Structurally, the two ships are very distinct with a heavily curved Atlantic bow on the Prinz Eugen and a rebuilt stern. This makes her longer than the Admiral Hipper (and more heavy -- hence the fat jokes). For the visual differences between the ships, I strongly recommend visiting dseehafer's "What's the Difference?" thread from the World of Warships NA forums. Would I Recommend? I would not recommend this ship for new players. Full stop. If you don't have a lot of experience in World of Warships -- especially with high tier cruisers like the USN and KMS cruisers, this is not going to be an easy ship for you to love. That said, if you can make the Prinz Eugen work, you'll go a long way towards mastering a lot of difficult challenges in World of Warships. ForRandom Battle Grinding: The Prinz Eugen is entirely based around providing increased earnings, making her ideally suited for grinding in Random Battles. For 3,000 doubloons, you can arm yourself with the ability to increase credit earnings by 10% too. The initial camouflage is like having your Prinz Eugen permanently under the effects of a Zulu Hotel flag. For the Prinz Eugen to be considered worthwhile here, she needs to earn 2/3s of the normal experience you might with your best German premium. It should be noted that even with the 3,000 doubloon camouflage, it's very difficult to make the Prinz Eugen profitable in Co-Op when your ship gets sunk. Repairing your ship is 70,000 credits. For Competitive Gaming: No. Very no, in fact. At tier 8 there are quite a few good cruisers -- the Atago, the Mikhail Kutuzov ... even the Mogami are all rather competitive. The Prinz Eugen is definitely behind the curve. For Collectors: History says: You must buy. The Prinz Eugen was with the Bismarck at the Battle of Denmark Straits. She had a long and storied career during WWII and survived to end up getting nuked twice by the Americans. For Fun Factor: Meh. She's not really my cup of tea. She does have some nice traits going for. Like, she really handles well with those nice turrets and fun gunnery. I love bullying Destroyers in the Prinz Eugen, so that's a plus. I also liked using her as an AA escort. Find your enjoyment where you can, I suppose. Rivals: Admiral Hipper The Prinz Eugen and the Admiral Hipper are so alike it makes my face hurt. Here's the summary of all of the differences less the premium camouflage differences. And yes, this is all of them. The Prinz Eugen has 1,200 more hit points than the Admiral Hipper. She has 200m less range on her main battery. She has slightly worse AA values with 9 less DPS overall. She has slightly worse handling, with a 0.2s increased rudder shift time and 30m larger turning circle. She's visible from further out than the Admiral Hipper, but only by 300m or so. The Admiral Hipper has better waterline protection up to her bow of 40mm. The Prinz Eugen's extended bow has a tip that's only 25mm near the waterline. Yep... Outfitting your Prinz Eugen Like many cruisers with ability to take on different roles, you'll have to choose a specializing to get the most out of her. These will likely divide down anti-aircraft escort and traditional gunship duties. Recommended Modules There's nothing too out of the ordinary here. For your first slot, Main Armaments Modification 1 should be your optimal choice regardless of build. If you absolutely abhor the idea of getting your magazine shot out and detonating, you can consider taking Magazine Modification 1. The chances of this happening are pretty low (perhaps 1 game in 50 to 1 game in 100). For your second slot, decide here if you want to be an AA escort or not. The default choice should be Aiming Systems Modification 1. This doesn't provide a tremendous boost to cruisers given their already good accuracy but it does help. For an AA escort, take AA Guns Modification 2 to provide you with a boost to your range. Your 4.5km guns will now reach out to 5.4km. For your third slot, Damage Control Systems Modification 1 is arguably the best of a lot of rather bad choices. For the fourth slot, Steering Gears Modification 2 is hands down the best option. You're going to need to be dodging a lot in the Prinz Eugen -- from torpedoes to incoming shells. Anything that will accelerate you wiggling your tush is going to be worth its weight in gold. This improves your rudder shift time down to 8.7s. And for the fifth slot, it's pretty much a no brainer. Grab Concealment System Modification 1. This will reduce your surface detection range (with camouflage) down to a flat 13.0km. Which is still bad but tolerable. Recommended Consumables Again, your choices here will be coloured by your preferred style of play I can't heap enough praises on grabbing the premium version of your Damage Control Party. This reduces your reset timer from 90s to 60s. It may seem a bit extreme for a ship that cannot heal and that doesn't intend to ever get shot. However, when the poop hits the fan, you'll be glad you have it. Still, if you're trying to save coin, you can go with the standard one -- just don't be surprised when it costs you your ship. For your second slot, I strongly recommend keeping the German Hydroacoustic Search. You shouldn't need a premium version of it. The only reason to swap out for Defensive Fire would be if you want to play the role of an AA escort. In this case, take the premium version so that it will be off cool down when the planes finish rearming so you can greet them with a new wall of flak. Keep in mind, you are unlikely to ever see more than a single carrier in high tier games. Your float plane fighter is fine as is. Don't bother spending credits getting the premium version. It has a very long up time and its reset timer is painfully long no matter what. For signals, I would strongly recommend using the Zulu Hotel signal to further boost your Captain earnings. If you've bought the 3,000 doubloon camouflage, then the Zulu flag will add another 20% to your credits gained. Stack those advantages! Recommended Captain Skills Your skill selection will vary once more depending on your preferences for your intended role, but not by much. From the first tier, Basic Fire Training is most desirable. Even if you aren't going to be an AA cruiser, this will increase your own defensive AA power. This has the added bonus of giving your small secondary armament some more teeth too. From the second tier, you have a choice. Last Stand will take some of the strain off your Damage Control Party. The Prinz Eugen will receive engine and steering gear critical hits rather frequently when you're trying to avoid incoming fire. This way you can save the consumable for mitigating fires and floods. Alternatively, you can take Expert Marksman. This will reduce the time taken to rotate your turrets 180' from 22.5s down to 20.7s -- which is only a marginal improvement. From the third tier, it will depend upon you preferences. Anti-Aircraft cruisers should take Superintendent to provide an extra charge of their Defensive Fire consumable. Otherwise, Vigilance is the best choice to assist with spotting and avoiding torpedoes. From tier 4,it will again depend on your specialization. Gunships should focus on Demolition Expert to increase their chance of starting fires from 13% to 16% per HE shell. Anti-aircraft Captains will want to take Advanced Fire Training at a minimum and strongly consider adding Manual Fire Control for AA Guns afterwards. At tier 5, Concealment Expert is the best skill. Provided you took the appropriate module and are using your camouflage, this will drop your surface detection range from 13.0km to 11.44km. Even AA specialized Captains can consider grabbing this instead of the Manual Fire Control skill. It will provide them with more utility in between attack runs of enemy planes or if you find yourself in a match without carriers.
  18. Sonic_157

    Prinz Eugen in-game

    Hey guys. As you probably have heard by now, the famous Prinz Eugen will be soon released as a tier VIII premium ship. I have gathered all the info we have on her so far in this thread. Full stats from shipcomrade here. The big news are that her camo will provide some extra benefits in addition to the usual ones (credits to Aerroon from here). Camo No.1 (+50% more commander XP) Camo No.2 (+10% credit income) Aerroon commentary: Flamu commentary: Jammin411 commentary: PointyHairedJedi commentary:
  19. Hallo zusammen ich hab mir per Lastschrift (EC) die Prinz Eugen gekauft. Das Geld wurde letzten Freitag (16.09.2016) von meinem Konto abgebucht. jedoch habe ich sie immer noch nicht erhalten :/ Was soll ich jetzt am besten tun? Ticket schreiben kann ich leider nicht da ich das Datum nicht weiß wann ich sie gekauft habe vielen Dank für jede hilfreiche Antwort
  20. MrWastee

    the prinz eugen poll

    ok... there's quite some discussion on the latest german premium ca, the "prinz eugen". so, let's have a poll : (quickly put together, any constructive critizism is welcome ) "feel free to add any suggestions like something that not relates to consumables (better aa, more speed, turtleback armor or anything, may in trade for something else). if so, plz choose the option "other" in the 3rd question and explain in a post." option "other" on 3rd question, explained through post (not necessarily correlates with number of votes): - "[...] how about one more modification slot, like the one which contains 3m credit choices?" option "other" on 4th question, explained through post (not necessarily correlates with number of votes): results: 20 voters: - wg would sell 1/3 more eugens if something got added - almost 2/3 of voters want an addition - more than the half want a heal added - near almost half want it to get addedd on top 45 voters: - wg would sell almost 3 times more eugens in addition to those they did sell, if something got added (7 voters bought, 19 would) - almost 3/4 want an addition (ca. 73%) - more than the half would like to see a heal get added (ca. 54%) - almost the half want it to get added on top (ca. 44%) 77 voters: - almost 58%+ who bought the eugen (ca. 23%), or would do so if something got added (ca. 35%) - 75% in whole would like to see an addition while - 50% would like this addition to be a heal and - 48% would like that to get added on top 114 voters: - 55% that bought (ca.20%) or would buy (ca.35%) - 76% that want something get added - 50% that want a heal as addition - 47% who want to get it added on top 146 voters: - 51%+ did buy (ca. 17,8%), or would if it gets improved (ca. 33,5%), followed by ca. 30% who seem unsure on the offer, no matter if addition or not. - ca. 75% want an addition - ca. 47,9% want it to be a heal (followed by radar with 16,9%) - ca. 47% want it to get added on top (followed by "traded for fighter plane" with ca. 15,7%) 198 voters: - 52,5%+ did buy (ca. 18,2%), or would if it gets improved (ca. 34,3%), followed by ca. 28% who seem unsure on the offer, no matter if addition or not. - 74,75% want an addition - 50% want it to be a heal (followed by radar with ca. 16%) - ca. 48,5% want it to get added on top (followed by "traded for fighter plane" with ca. 13,7%) 226 voters: - 54,4%+ did buy (ca. 18,1%), or would if it gets improved (ca. 36,3%), followed by ca. 25,66% who seem unsure on the offer, no matter if addition or not. - 74,34% want an addition - 50,45% want it to be a heal (followed by radar with 15,77%) - 50% want it to get added on top (followed by "traded for fighter plane" with ca. 15,04%) 256 voters: - 54,3 did buy (18,36%), or would if it gets improved (35,94%), followed by ca. 25,39% who seem unsure on the offer, no matter if addition or not. - 75% want an addition - 51,98% want it to be a heal (followed by radar with 14,68%) - 49,22% want it to get added on top (followed by "traded for fighter plane" with ca. 14,06%) edit: - added neg-option to last 2 questions - removed "aa barage" as eugen already has access to it. got one vote before - added option "spotting plane", changed "plane" to "fighter plane" - added option "other" on last question (at 71 voters total) - removed option long range torps from 3rd question, as those are not consumables. got 3 votes before - added option "aa barrage" on 4th question (at 71 voters total) - added a note-edit on the "no" option in 1st question (at 88 voters total) - added results
  21. Who makes the marketing texts on the ships in the Premium Shop articles? I quote: "Towers" over? You got to be kidding. "Upgraded anti-air armament"? no such thing: both only differ in a few points up or down from each other in live testing. Only thing changed since then (as far as I know) is the 50% bonus. It's a great fire starter with fast reload and 8 guns spamming HE on the enemy. It's an excellent dd hunter and good single cruiser killer. Don't forget the 2x3 for torps on each side(!) of the ship to kill everything in it's path at close range. I did 1,5 M dmg in this ship. The rudder shift lacks in my opinion and there for "all-rounder" is not a good word to describe this ship. But I'm just a tad above average player and I got up to Yorck, so maybe I see this completely the wrong way. But the ship can be bought by noobs, average players and excellent players. Except for the excellent players the discription of buyable ships for real money should not mislead normal buyers, who might buy it for historical reasons. Don't get me wrong: I like for Wargaming to make money. Hell, I put quite some in it. Just be honest over the stats. And if your Customer Service is flooded by people who felt the ship lacking after reading the text, it will affect your bottom line for all those refunds and hours put in those complaints.
  22. Moin, auf NA gibts die Prinz Eugen zu kaufen. http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/prinz-eugen-bundles/ Die üblichen Pakete werden diesmal offensichtlich gestaffelt verkauft, jetzt das ganz große und jeweils eine Woche später ein mittleres und danach das Schiff solo Sie hat leider im Gegensatz zu allen anderen Premiums bisher keine gamespezifische Eigenart. Nur eine Hipper im anderen Kostüm. Dafür bekommt der Skipper mit ihr 50% mehr EXP. Mal sehen, wann es das euroäische Schiff auch auf dem EU Server gibt.
  23. Tyrendian89

    Prinz Eugen available in NA

    So yeah, as usual, NA gets the ship first. Which is not something I mind anymore. http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/prinz-eugen-bundles/ 49$ for the ship alone, with bundles for 60$ and 75$ (the latter including a butt-ugly flag) also available. And the ship is still just a Hipper with minuscule tweaks. Speciality is a 50% bonus to Captain Experience. So yeah, for that price and with that offer, you can fudge right off Wargaming - this is a complete, utter, pathetic, sad waste of a potentially awesome ship.
  24. I_Love_CVs

    Prinz Eugen Commentary

    You know the ship is underwhelming when you pick the shortest gameplay you have on it and still struggle to fill that space with an informative commentary. TL;DW Admiral Hipper clone.
  25. MA89

    Prinz Eugen Hype Wall!

    Hype wall for Prinz Eugen/Admiral Hippper Class German Cruiser! Post pictures,thoughts, and comments about The KM Prinz Eugen!