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Showing results for tags 'Damage Model'.
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Okay, this has nothing to do with "I got detonated, remove broken/OP/[insert derogatory comment of your choice] game mechanic hurpadurp", so take those elsewhere. Now that that is out of the way, here's the topic: Today I'm merrily sailing along, being shot to bits from multiple side, and I'm a guaranteed kill. As it happens, I lost my last few HP in a detonation. But then I was watching my ship sink and I noticed something strange: The ships was sinking in one piece. Didn't break in half or was missing its aft section of bow, she was sinking like she had a hole below the waterline. And now here's the point: I would expect a detonated ship to be in pieces. Every. Time. I mean you just detonated tons of propellant and HE filler, that's bound to do sever structural damage to a ship, so why is that not represented in the game visually?
Damage system is broken?! To prove this, I got some screenshots for you guys as well as a video. If the devs don't admit that there is something wrong they have to explain the following to me! Lets start with some pictures first: Video: (Don't get distracted by the common replay bugs) Replay file: http://www.file-upload.net/download-11787155/EvidenceforbrokendmgmodelColorado-1945_46_Estuary.wowsreplay.html The encounter happens early on at around 18:00 of the battletimer. Exact times can be found in the screenshots. (Note: You have to open it with the pts client since it is from 0.5.9) Now explain this to me. It was a battleship vs cruiser engagement and clear evidence is given by the UI and visually that both shells hit and penetrate. They don't hit any external stuff or turrets. They went straight into the hull of the ship. So why isn't the Königsberg taking any dmg? Do you have encountered the same? Its not only the 0 dmg penetrations. I got overpens counted as penetrations as well or some other wired stuff. The whole dmg model feels so broken sometimes, its killing a lot of fun for me. So tell me, what are your thoughts about it? Maybe you have an explanation? Lets discuss! (all footage is from the testserver and from update 0.5.9. I have this problem in the current live version 0.5.8.1 as well. I used this one due to the clear result)
G01ngToxicCommand0 posted a topic in General DiscussionFirst some background for my suggestions Detection range, camo and invistorping: One of the most unrealistic features of the game is the camo rating for ships; at sea if one ship can spot another the other one can also spot the first one, this is basic physics and detection range in real life is only related to the height of the ship and have nothing to do with the size of the vessel, displacement, length or width. What you can observed can observe you back however in this game size does matter and creates more problems and toxicity due to invisi torping from destroyers which is an utterly ridiculus game feature especially for ships using radar which would pick up ships as soon as there were line of sight depending weather conditions and sea state. The invisitorping is the effect of the hugely overinflated gunnery accuracy of the main batteries which forced smaller ships to have less detectibility range in order to survive but have instead introduced a feature that makes cruisers really bad at destroyer hunting which were that class of ships' primary target in any naval engagement, however in this game cruisers are now dependant on either friendly destroyers or carrierborne aircraft to spot the enemy destroyers which in reality makes that class of ship redundant as the only 3 classes of ships that is worthwhile to use are carriers, battleships and destroyers. The above three subjects are all connected to and stems from the exaggerated accurcy and effectivenes of the naval gunnery and the solution to this lies in changing how the gunnery and damage models work. Gunnery and Damage model, citadel hits and fires: Gunnery accuracy and gunnery model: Due to the 20 minute game length limit an enhanced gunnery and damage model have been implemented in the game however the enhanced accuracy and high damage in the form of citadel hits and fires makes ship survivability extremely low even for battlehsips and carriers with large displacements which causes passive playstyle in players due to a combination of not wanting to lose one's ship fast and high repair costs at some tiers forward. An enhanced probabilty of obtaining hits is nessessary when there is a time limit of 20 minutes of course however combined with too high damage per shell makes the survivability of ships too low and contributes to passive gameplay, lemming mentality and general cowardice in some if not most players not to mention boring'ish gameplay when no one dares to make attack runs or aggresive action out of fear of losing the ship. Fires: The ability of external fires to destroy the ship is the only reason for cruisers to be in the game however that game feature is both stupid and unrealistic as most fires externally on a warship should not pose any significant threat to the ships survival due to lack of flammable material that could spread fire to important internal sections. Internal fires caused by APC, CPC, HCHE, HE , torpedoes and arieal bombs either penetrating before detonating or causing fire due to causing secondary effects from detonation shockwave damage and/or incandescent shell fragments penetrating the hull on the other hand are an extreme threat to the survival of the ship however that is not included but should have been. Fire damage is also still too high and causes passive playstyle in cruiser and battleship players due to the far to high risk of losing the ship to uncontrollable fires set by HE spamming cruisers and destroyers. Citadel hits and damage model: Citadel hits are a completely unnessesary element of the game which primary effect is adding to the redundancy of the cruiser as a class of ship in the game and making the survival of both that class of ship and battleships dependant on RNG rather than player gunnery skills which causes toxicity and passive playstyle out of fear of losing one's ship to citadel hits. Citadel hits simply causes too much damage relative to shell real life destructive power which is simply not a nessessay feature of the game as damaging hits to the inner sanctums of the ships such as magazines, boilers, steam turbines and barbettes could have been represented otherwise as stated below. Matchmaking: The matchmaking still creates autowin/autolose teams when creating teams too dissimilar either in the numbers of battleships, destroyers or the tier difference in those 2 classes - the number and/or tier of cruisers seldomly have ny impact on the game as that class of ship is redundant and can't really do anything on its own but have been relegated to a supporting role for destroyers, battleships and carriers thus if the have 6 or 8 inch guns it really doesn't matter what tier they sit on when above tier V. Suggestion to solution in order to promote and enable a more aggressive and exiting gameplay of WoWS: I believe that the current game iteration promotes a passive gameplay, rewards unrealistic tactics, induces toxicity and have completely made the cruiser as a class redundant stems from the gunnery and damage models caused by the 20 minute limit of the game and there all of the below suggestions are all interdependant of each other in order to work. ad Detection range, camo and invisitorping: Let detection be as in real life so that is solely dependant on line of sight determined by height only using the formula for view range here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon, I do know that there is no horizon in the game but that should not make any difference as the game is an abstraction with the view range being a numerical value anyway and should not create any problem with regards to implementing it codewise. Map related effects such as weather and sea state, when and if implemented, should of course affect the view range and ships with radar shoud be able to detect ships through smoke however only being able to observe the ship themselves while showing the target on the minimap and/or a penalty to gunnery accuracy. Now that invisitorping will be more or less out of the game the torpedo mechanics will have to be balanced in order to make them viable weapons, this can be done by lowering the detection range for torpedoes considerably so that when the torpedoes are detected they are much closer to the target than they are now. This will need balancing with torpedo speed and/or spread angles of course. ad gunnery and damage model, citadel hits and fires: The gunnery accuracy and the gunnery model is ok but could use tweaking by having the height from which the director is spotting fixed so that obstacles between the players ship and the target blocks the line of sight and/or line of fire on long distance engagements and when friendly ships are blocking the shot it should always be readibly discernable in the director gunsight so not to do damage to team members and waste shots by shooting into island mountains. The damage model for the naval gunnery should change so that maximum damage a shell is half of the citadel hits which will provide the players with a bit more certainty of how long their ships will last unless hits to the citadel volumes are made which should induce players to be less passive in their playstyle in the knowledge that they will not instantly die when encountering far more powerful ships then their own, and that citadel hits be represented by causing the following critical hits to modules inside the ship's citadel: Barbette: Turret completely stuck untill repaired and then reduced turret traverse speed by a TBD degree/second after the repair, also there should be a chance for fire and magazine detonation as flash from the shell detonation can propagate there through the shell and powder train - visually represented by a non moving turrret, smoke and/or fire coming from the turret and massive explosion if the magazine below is detonated. Danmage source: APC, HE, divebombers and torpedoes. Boilers/turbines/engine room: Ship maximum speed and acceleration reduced by the numbers of boilers/turbines/engine room hit with total loss of speed if all are knocked out, then when repaired a permanent reduction in maximum speed and accelration. Visually reprensented by white smoke coming from smokestacks and/or other places amidships to illustrate the escaping steam. Damage source: APC, HE, divebombers and torpedoes. Magazines: Any hit in a magazine volume should have a certain chance of causing fire and detonating it with the potential of completely destroying the ship in one go. If not detonated immediately the magazine could burn and when the fire damaged the magazine to a certain hit point threshhold it would explode/detonate destroying the ship in the process unless put out by the damage control party consumable, this type of fire should not be able to go out on itself but should always end in the magazine exploding if not put out by the DC consumable. When the magazine is on fire the turrets/guns fed by that magazine would be rendered useless untill the fire is put out. After succesfully putting out the magazine fire it should reduce the rate of fire of the turrets/guns fed by that magazine. Visually represented by a massive bright explosion and smokecloud engulfing large parts if not all of the ship and a massive bang heard across the entire battlefield like in World of Tanks when ammoracked there, fire in the magazines would be visually shown by a bright fire and smoke coming from the turrets/guns above the magazine. Damage source: APC, HE, divebombers and torpedoes. While not technically a citadel zone the turrets should also have their damage model tweaked: Turrets: When penetrated by artillery the turret should immediately become stuck and be unable to fire until repaired and when repaired at a lower rate of fire and rate of turn, also there should be a chance that a fire is started and chance of causing a magazine hit as well, obvioulsy the latter should be to a lesser degree than for a direct magazine hit or a hit to the barbette but there should be a chance for it to happen. Damage source: APC, HE and divebombers. Fires: External fires should have maximum amount of damage they can do to ships and should not be able to sink the target. This will put a limit to the damage HE spam can cause to ships, however internal fires should be able to destroy a ship if not put out as those can and will gut a ship if not controlled in time. Thinly armoured ships such as destroyers and light cruisers/light carriers should be able to be caused internal fires by external HE hits due to detonation, flash and incandescant shell fragments penetrating the ship's sides and decks. The above suggestions could hopefully lessen the passive gamestyle by increasing survivabilty for all classes of ships and will battleship/CA charge, destroyer and cruiser torpedo runs viable tactics even when detected as the damage recieved will be far less severe then now but will require more team work to take down ships or better gunnery skills by the players in order to hit the vital areas such as turrets, engine rooms and magazines. When the players know that they will not instantly die when fired upon that should induce more bravery and agression into them as those attributes will be rewarded more than they do now and lessen the reward of camping in the back. Matchmaking: The matchmaking should be closer to mirror matchmaking with regards to battleship and destroyer and their tier composition than now but if the above suggestions is all introduced dissimilar teams would be less of a problem than now. * EDITED due to original post being posted before finished by mistake*