FloatingTarget

I'm being facetious, yes I have but not much as I found it cheesy and boring. My question to you is have you ever been on the receiving end of a Sub (CVs too to be honest) in a BB or even a cruiser and often DDs? You will be pinged constantly and may have to waste a damage control ability to un-ping yourself which is worthless as you just get tagged immediately. Once torpedoes are on you, you will most likely get hit due to their magical anti-skill homing powers which if you are in a BB makes any kind of avoidance impossible. They move at light speed and there are DDs that have trouble catching up. They are also surprisingly tanky, many DDs have less HP somehow, your ASW barely scratches them requiring massed strikes thus needing BBs to be bunched up causing more passive gameplay. ASW is also highly inaccurate and by the time it's recharged you have taken a face full of more torpedoes. If it's just you and a sub then there is nothing you can do, especially if you are in a BB. It's a free kill for the sub. When facing other enemies there are things one can do to minimise damage or avoid it so you can pull back into a better position. Against a sub, you can't see it but it can see you and can just tail you whilst spamming sonar and rapid fire torpedoes that you can't avoid. DDs and Light Cruisers have to put themselves in a suicidal position to destroy them as Subs can shotgun torp anything that gets close and of course the sub can spot them, thus making it a highly undesirable fight for a DD. It's low skill because it's low risk high reward like a CV, you can safely engage enemies that cannot engage you and for the player on the opposing end it's an incredibly frustrating process. I would not have such a bad opinion of them if they removed their homing torps and made them skill based like anything that throws torpedoes, but it's pretty much fire and forget and laugh as there's nothing your opponent can do. Yes yes, I know, anything over a week is hereby considered irrelevant to some people. But once again he makes some good points. Like he says, 60k damage by homing torpedoes and there was nothing he could really do about it, only run away and in a PvP game when the only thing you can do against another player is run then there's a big issue. There is no counterplay. Some things he says may be outdated, but he highlights the general frustration that many people feel.

Nah man, I don't want to feel all dirty.

It's because Wargaming need to cater for those fragile souls who lack skill and a spine to play anything but Subs and CVs. They want to make sure the type of gamers who benefit are the ones who can risk nothing when being able to attack. Need to feed the whales and griefers somehow.

Has Wargaming got in into their heads that introducing another class of ship into the game which there is no defence against is unpopular? Or are they going to add new Sub/CV hybrids?

I have noticed that it's not unusual for one team to have about three divisions, all made up of clans and the other team completely divisionless.

Great, more CV/BB Monstrosities, just what everyone wanted.

Make the Darings shells less floaty. In order to lead an enemy DD you literally need to lead to the left or so far that you can't see them anymore.

Wouldn't know bout Operations, have not been able to play them since they became division only.

The last things CVs need is more love XD

Okay and? That doesn't make the points any less relevant. What I'm getting from this topic is that any attempt or conversation about balancing CVs so they are not sky cancer is met by CV players with "No! Noob! Stop crying! Just leave the game! Any criticism is moaning! There's nothing wrong with them!" Because if CVs get balanced, suddenly they would need to work to win XD (joke in case the salt flow) But yea, people are free to talk and criticise. CVs have many issues, if they didn't their wouldn't be so much flak aimed at them, if you forgive the pun.

Potato Quality made a good video covering the gripe against CVs. I don' agree with everything he says and I do still believe they have a place in the game, there are some things that resonate with me. For example: The risk vs reward system for ships which CVs don't follow. The only thing CVs risk are planes and that only starts to become an issue like ten minutes into a game, other players risk HP and destruction. The frustration of being focused down by a CV with no way to respond, you will take damage if you are in a BB and there is very little to do against it. The RNG nature of AA and it's limited effects. (I understand that the Enhanced AA skill used to be more effective?) The fact that two players can completely change a way a match is played thus causing a more passive game. BBs will hang back, DDs won't try to go for points and won't bother to really spot, Cruisers will huddle together. It's too much power in a sense. The way spotting and concealment (especially against cruisers) is made redundant. They can spot you and there is not much you can do against it, ruining any plans or plays you may have. It makes a DDs job less important and don't get me started how frustrating it is when you get a "Spot this many enemy ships" mission as a DD and worse a cruiser only to have a CV gobble it all up. I feel a lot of this could be changed by making it so that a CVs spotting works a bit like a Cyclone. You can see them on the map, but not yourself if a CV spots them. As well as giving AA a more effective role, perhaps punishing a CV player heavily if they loose a large amount or all of their plane squad in an attack, causing them to be more cautious and having to select their targets better as opposed to just sending them all in knowing they will just respawn instantly. Maybe if a player continues to get singled out by a greedy CV, Enhanced AA activates, as if you think about it, a ship under constant air attack would have a very alert AA crew. Another thing I saw in a comment that I agree with is how players may end up wasting commander skill points and/or a consumable on AA skills when it's not necessarily the case you may encounter a CV Axolotl: "One thing that I find weird is that a surface ship has to dedicate both captain skills and modules towards AA to prepare for an enemy they might not even face in battle. Furthermore, equipping these modules/skills makes the surface ship objectively worse when facing other surface ships. The CV on the other hand will always go up against surface ships and thus benefit from their skills/modules every match. The only way you can guarantee the benefits of the AA skills and modules is to join a platoon with a CV." As it is, a CV player can just sit back and spam out planes with very little risk and there isn't too much another player can do about it. Is that realistic, sort of as in real life planes don't respawn, though CVs are the linchpin of a modern fleet, but it's a game, not real life.

First off, let me open this up with an apology, I have been quite rude and spikey if you will, frustration can do that. I will be looking to improve my behaviour and not be so harsh. I am getting the hang of the Daring. However... My current gripe is with British Heavy Cruisers. At least I know this is a subject other will agree with me on. With British Destroyers, Light Cruisers (despite them being giant citadels) and Battleships, I have found that they do indeed have some redeeming quality's. British DDs for example can turn on a dime, though I still feel they are inferior to their counterpart with other nations. The same can't be said with British Heavy Cruisers, this is my second time going through the tiers and once again it's a chore. I feel there is a problem when in the British Heavy Cruiser introduction video you have WoWs telling you to play one way (medium range support) then everyone else either saying how crap they are or telling you that they must be played another way (hug your concealment, lob HE). The problem is they are heavy only in name and do not perform the function they are suppose to. Here are some bullet points. Cons: They have ludicrously short range. As such you will constantly find yourself under fire with no way to respond. Their AP is poor at range whereas other cruisers can easily citadel at range. They have weak armour and a giant citadel, despite WoW saying the contrary, you will eat citadels for breakfast, even when angled. They are slow and turn like a battleship. They apparently have good HE but I struggle to cause any real damage with them. They are slow to reload. Small health pool in comparison to other Heavy Cruisers Secondaries are short range Lack of consumables, Floaty shell syndrome Pros: They have okay AA They have okay concealment (negated by Wargaming obsession with CVs and Subs) Zombie heal (but you will be citadel hit so much it's not that great) I feel the cons far outweigh the pros, I very rarely see people playing them and I think I understand why, their counterparts do what they do but better. I had a game where I snuck up on a Sherman (a bad idea, yes but we were getting hammered and I was desperate. I used hydro and spotted them in their smoke, I hoped that my firepower would be enough to devastate them. I fired into their broadside and got a bunch of pens but the RNG gods frowned upon me and I didn't do more than 6000 damage. My secondaries were out of range and my reload meant that by the time I could fire again I was eaten alive. I was outgunned in a Heavy Cruiser by a Destroyer. You will be overmatched by most and will take massive damage even when angled. With all the issues these ships have and the general lack of regard for them I would have thought that Wargaming would have taken notice, after all they were universally panned upon launch. But it seems that Wargaming went straight to their next Soviet, paper drawn lovechild abomination and have not revisited them since. The question is how to improve them? Because as it is, once I have completed the tiers and got my research bonus, I see no reason to play them again since they are inferior to other Heavy Cruisers, by quite a large margin. Once again, sorry if I have been annoying, just wanted to discuss this. Makes you wonder how Britain ruled the waves when everyone else had better ships.

So any criticism is moaning? Got it.

Sorry, but you don't know my circumstances. Is there user error involved? Of course there is, I never claimed to be a great player or even good for that matter. But I try to learn, hence why I ask for help and advice. With DDs and Light Cruisers I have watched videos gone through many forum posts and experimented with them to find a way to play that works. They have their issues but I am getting better with them as they do have their strengths. British Heavy Cruisers are a different matter. If it was only me having an issue then I would agree it would strictly be a me issue. But I'm not the only one not too fond of these ships. You just have to watch WoW Introduction to them to see how divisive they were and still are. They are rarely played, people favour other Heavy Cruisers over them because other Heavy Cruisers of equal tier can do what they do but better. I simply see too many cons to make their pros worth it, they turn like a battleship and are about as fast as one. Their guns are short range and floaty, they are citadel magnets and have a large reload time. I have tried using different playstyles to try and help this. As a medium range support ship (like Wargaming wants) it gets focused down by BBs and lacks the reload time to help with enemy cruisers and especially DDs and when things go bad it's very difficult to get away as you will be outrun. It's guns are also floaty and the slow reload makes it troublesome to hit anything at a distance, that and HE to the superstructure which is the main thing you will be hitting at range does not dish out much damage for the reload time you have. As a duelling anti cruiser ship, well other cruisers will destroy it, they will angle and spam you to death whilst you have to wait a long time to fire for limited damage. As a DD hunter, well that's a no brainer... Perhaps I am harsh with my words, but when you are on a losing streak and struggling to make any meaningful impact on a game, yes due to skill but also the severe limitations of the ship you are playing, it gets frustrating. Especially when you feel you have tried every tactic and way to play that people have suggested and it does not work.

Just had another game, ships are utter trash. Heavy Cruisers of the same tier have faster firing, longer range, harder hitting guns. You are doomed to lose a duel. Got SAP spammed to death, I had to wait a century before firing again, meanwhile my opponent could dish out shells that were doing around 4000 damage per shell at around every three seconds. All I could do is tickle them for about 1000 damage for a full salvo at close range. Sorry, but these ships are utterly useless, most people don't play them and I can see why. If they are not going to be improved then once I get my research points I will just be selling. There is no point in keeping around a ship that can't really do anything that other ships can just completely outclass it in. Moskva and Henri have better guns, better reloading and are more tanky. Why pick a British Heavy over these? I'm sure some people like them, but it's been nothing but frustration and misery.

Are any of the British hips going to get an overhaul. Because many, Especially British Heavy Cruisers which feel like they were rushed out and have never been looked at again. When they were released the reaction was a resounding "meh".

Cool for you I guess, so why can't I get close to that? All HE shells do is around 3000-4000 damage even if I get a full salvo in, AP is bad at range. I aim at the super structure with the HE rounds since they can't penetrate anything else at range, if I get too close I just get instantly citadel hit and destroyed and in a duel it's pretty useless as it takes a century to reload its guns. If it's such an amazing ship, then why does hardly anyone use it? I have had nothing but a miserable time with the British Heavy Cruiser line. Once I get my research bonus, I'll be selling it.

Wouldn't surprise me if Wargaming added Aircraft carrier subs that can launch nukes. Considering the amount of unbalanced, made up nonsense they throw around.

Apparently British Heavy Cruisers do good HE damage? I have yet to see this as even a full salvo that land and hits the super structure rarely does more than 3000-4000 damage and with such a long reload time it makes the guns not worth it. So yea, slow clunky, slow to turn and reload, guns that don't seem to dish out damage and short range and fragile armour. Not worth the grind.

So why don't more people play it? Most cruisers can just spam it to death and with such short range and slow reloading guns it's not worth it.

It's got more health but comparatively it still sucks to other ships of its tier. It's still outgunned, out manoeuvred, out tanked and out ranged. There is a reason most people don't play British Heavy's Cruisers, it's because there are much better options. The most you will be doing in a game is either trying to get in range and failing as everything can outpace you, or getting Dev struck because of your giant "shoot me here" spot.

True, but with a Heavy Cruiser you would expect a bit more from angling, not so much for British ships. Healing isn't so great for AP and that goes double for citadel hits which you will get from plunging fire. With poor AP you can't really respond, especially with the short range of their guns and any attempt to flee just gets you broadsided. It's a general lack of everything that British Heavy Cruisers have. It ranges from "meh" to utterly terrible. It's the bizarre choices by Wargaming, from making giant floating citadels with British Light Cruisers and "meh" British Heavy Cruisers (with giant citadels) that don't really do anything well. A lack of good consumables hurts as well, hydro is meh and improved AA is irrelevant due to never ending plane spawning and CVs that will just focus you until you die. It makes British Heavy Cruisers concealment increasingly irrelevant as well as you will be spotted by planes or subs and like Battleships you are left with very little defence against a sub unless they are an idiot. I agree with a post above that they feel like they are for what the game used to be but have not been touched since they were introduced whilst Wargaming works on submarine carriers or some abomination hybrid. Something that I really don't understand is why they gave the Drake a spotter plane but took it away from the Goliath? It seems like just another downgrade and that's what the Goliath feels like.

Overmatch chews through it pretty quickly.

If they took away the magic homing torps and made them a bit slower that would help alleviate a lot of the hate towards them, it would make them skill based.

As I mentioned in my original post, the cons far outweigh the pros. There are Heavy Cruisers that have better armour, guns, HE and AP and speed and turning. All often in the same boat and at tier X the Goliath feels like a downgrade. It gets punished as a glass cannon without having the pros to back it up and make it viable. As mentioned, I have no reason to play it after I have got my research points.