FloatingTarget

Wargaming would give CVs nukes before ever actually balancing the game.

According to pretty much everyone, it's certainly better than the Druid, I can see that.

I think something that would make CVs less cancerous is if instead of spotting you outright, the CV planes spot you similar to how one is spotted at range during a cyclone. Their team knows the rough location, but it can't be cheesed. Obviously the CV can see you but their team has to rely on their map. Because as it is, in a CV game, not much point for concealment when a CV can spot you whenever they want with no risk to themselves.

You're welcome :)

You're right, I don't feel comfortable with showing it, because there are people like you and Sunleader who want to go through it with a fine comb to determine if I have the right to an opinion or not. You have made it very clear that you are super and have a thing to teach or two, I don't have good stats on things like the Druid and some ships I have a hard time getting above a 30% win rate, I have had a string of games in which our team was blasted, but I only play Random Battles and whilst annoying it happens. I have already admitted that I made mistakes, perhaps I didn't approach the situation right and it got me killed, but I take that and learn from it. Believe it or not but other people do play this game and I find it helpful to read or watch and listen to their advice and experiences so I can learn from that as they may have had the same issues I have had and I can learn a bit better on how to play a specific ship, after all they are more experienced than me, they may have a few things I can pick up. Captain error is certainly at work, I admit that, but I am not the only one to have had a few issues with these ships and so I have asked what to do better and how these ships compare or could be better. What I mentioned is my personal experience and I don't deny others will have different experiences than me with these ships. You see Zuihou_Kai_Ni, the problem with people like you and Sunleader is that you think only the most super unicum players are allowed to have an opinion and if anyone dares have one then they are wrong, it's always that they are a noob and not what they are saying may have some truth on it, ships and MM being unbalanced isn't new. You and Sunleader have been spending some time now in the General Sub chat trying to convince everyone that Subs are amazing and unbroken (to no real success I might add) and that anyone that dislikes them is just a noob or that if they have an opinion on how they could be better they just need to play better and accept it like good little boys, whatever Wargaming does. You have also made it clear that you are better than everyone. I am allowed to talk about these ships, my experiences with them, my opinions on them, my thoughts on how they could be improved or nerfed just the same as you are. Druid can only use AP, it has no torpedoes, it has a larger concealment, am I wrong in pointing these out? I mean, I would hate to be a noob and be wrong. As I pointed out, I spent a lot of time grinding for this ship, it does not gel atm, but I'm not going to just give up. I have more fun in the Daring, but I have the Druid and I have thoughts on it. It's correct I can get a little salty, I certainly do catch myself at times and I apologise if I rub people the wrong way, but getting like 12 games in a row where your team and you get nuked can be an annoying experience, especially if you are a bit disappointed in a ship you worked for. I also should point out that you tell me to ignore advice, so why should I follow any of yours? Thanks for the replay, my experience with DDs when I open fire is a torrent of shells as the enemy entirely focus me down. But I am starting to play the Druid a bit more aggressively. I also had the same bug today, my I entered freelook whilst aiming and my camera swung around wildly.

Mhm, I get it, I'm a noob and I suck. I should point out that I was playing the Druid as other people have recommended though, charging and using my smaller front profile whilst targeting their broadsides, taking cover with islands as I can. Well, being angled just gets it HE spammed and its turrets destroyed. Yes, I have a lot to learn, but my issues are with the Druid being basically just a lesser version of the Daring. I have been looking through things, posts and such, videos, etc, and it appears most people by a large margin prefer say the Vampire II to the Druid and there must be a reason for that. The Druid is a pretty rare ship to see. The issue I had in that fight was I couldn't close the distance and they had a 1km range on me and due to being slower if I tried to disengage they could just sit outside my range and keep me spotted whilst spamming torps without any response by me. Once someone angles and moves away, I can't really damage them and they can just outpace me. Being hit by a torp was my mistake, I own that. As for the reason I not just abandoning it is because I sunk so much time grinding Research Points for it. I'm sure anyone that's done the same wouldn't either. Hence why I am looking up ways to get better and what Commander Points and etc to use. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to voice my disappointment and opinions.

Got in a fight with a Shimakaze, spent god knows how long chasing it down and because of the Druids garbage Concealment it meant I had to keep getting torps fired at me why they could just outrun me and spot me. Finally got them cornered and began to fire into their broadside for peanut damage, they unleashed torpedoes which I couldn't dodge and I died. I thought to myself "man, it sure would be great to have better concealment and torpedoes" The problem with hunting DDs and fighting their broadside, especially annoying OP torpedo addicts like the Shima is that you have to fire whilst avoiding millions of torpedoes at the same time. It was a lesson in frustration. A better hydro would have made all the difference, but it was just another case of they can see me and attack me, I can't do jack.

My heart wants to say you are wrong but my common sense tells me you are right...

I find the irritation comes from the price it pays for slightly better guns and HP. No HE, no torps, worse concealment. It seems like too high a price and with short range hydro you are not going to be doing any real DD hunting unless you get lucky. Charging the enemy DD is a good way to get HE spammed to death as well as take a full face of torpedoes and angling does jack with suck weak armour. Forrest Sherman, Friesland, Småland all have better reload rates yet still have better concealment, have HE and have torpedoes, even if they are considered bad, they still have them. So the question is, why? Why is the Druid so heavily punished compared to these? I hope the devs one day give the Druid at least something to make it stand out better, be it better hydro or just adding HE or torps. Because it's a ship that can be considered a one trick pony and that trick isn't that impressive to be honest. I have learned to like the Daring, it has its problems sure but it has a lot of utility, the Druid has one trick. I'll keep trying to make it work, but eventually, like many people I will just move on a not look back until the devs themselves look at it again.

No, only that it be a little bit better or at least comparable to the Daring in terms of usefulness.

Had another battle, got melted by a Forrest Sherman, if a RB ship that's suppose to be a good DD hunter can't even compete with a coal ship, then what's the point? The Druid was utterly outclassed. Fire rate, torpedoes, SAP, seems like the Sherman gets everything, I get it's a strong ship but I felt like there was really no way to fight them. I just don't understand why Wargaming would add a RB variant of a ship that's just generally worse than the ship it's based off. I feel a little salty about this because it feels like I wasted so much time Research grinding for a ship that feels a bit like a con. Should have went with the Vampire II.

Thanks for the advice all, I understand it needs to be played more like a cruiser. It does get annoying when your team mates have a hissy fit when you play more cautiously as they want you to just spot or yolo into a cap and get nuked due to you always being spotted first. I feel like the Druid was not really thought out, It's like the Wargaming devs thought "Let's make a RB Daring with fast firing guns, but we need to compensate" then they went overboard with the cons. It has the same consumables as the Daring but worse concealment, no torps and only one ammo type, less guns and for a marginally better reload it's not worth it. I feel like if they gave it the same concealment as the Daring or even just a better Hydro and/or torpedoes it would help it be as useful as the Daring, but I doubt they will change it as they are pretty stuck in their ways. It was not really worth the Research grind. Maybe I should have went with the Gibraltar? What skills/consumable should I go for? Range or reload? Had a game in the Druid where I could do nothing useful, the moment I opened up I get hammered and an enemy DD was just able to spam torps into my smoke without me being able to respond or even close the gap.

No, the secondaries are worthless.

Just had a game in my Duncan, got singled out by a sub and got up to make a cup of tea. Couldn't be bothered to deal with that crap. Nothing I could do, no matter how I turned, how fast I went or if I slowed down. Took a full salvo despite everything I did, they perfectly homed in on me because Sub players need easy mode. Took about 49k damage so I just left. I would rather take the karma hit than deal with this broken garbage. That's the issue people have, a class of ship with no counter in a PvP game. Complete waste of time.

Make fighters on ships unable to spot. Let's be honest, it's just used to do that anyway.

Had another annoying match, was a BB and being targeted by a sub. Tried to do the trick where you turn when the homing stops and all that, well, takes about 50 years to slow down and can't turn for crap so couldn't do anything but eat torps with no way to respond. By the time the torps are detected, it's already too late. I'm lovin it... When I realized there was jack crap I could do I just got up and made a cup of tea, came back after we lost. This is the thing I followed btw https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/262261-how-to-dodge-homing-torpedoes/ "But subs are great! Nothing broken about them at all, learn to play!" Is the noise of sub players that I hear coming.

Yes yes, you are an elite awesome sub player, he's not talking about playing as subs is he though? He's talking about playing against them. A person doesn't need to punch someone in the face to have an opinion on being punched in the face if they have been punched in the face.

You yourself have said their are issues with homing torpedoes, you yourself have stated they are unnecessary, we both agree they should not be a thing but for different reasons. When you say "I'm trying to help you" it comes of condescending implying that I have not though of ways to avoid them, for example, being at an angle and swinging the body of the ship around them, well it does not work in a BB. But as you say I guess I suck against homing torps, but I feel fine as it appears that most people do, funny that? "homing torps are unnecessary simply because they are so easy to mitigate" I'm afraid you live in a parallel world, because most players would disagree. I also don't expect you to make a recording, nor should you expect replays, I'm pretty bad at the game and there is much I can learn, but I assume you want a replay from the hordes of people who are suffering from homing torps so you can tell them they are doing it wrong. "Are you interested as to why I claim that I have no issues against subs" you literally said that you don't think they should having homing torps, that's an issue.

You are the one trying to convince others that subs are wonderful, handy dandy and anyone that has a complaint is a noob that needs to learn to play because you are such an elite gamer that can teach everyone. Not sure if you have noticed but you are in a minority here, most people don't like subs and no amount of "stop sucking" is going to change their opinion until Wargaming takes their eyes away from their spreadsheets and our wallets and tries to address the issue. Even the simple act of removing homing torps could alleviate a lot of this, but that would make it less cheesy and easy for sub players because that's what they want, free damage. I think you are the one looking like a clown "Maybe Actually Try Learning the Mechanics and Stuff You Talk about." as you decide to accuse people of knowing nothing despite these people having first hand experience of the matter. Your argument is "you suck, learn to play", as you can imagine, you are not endearing anyone to subs. These issues with Subs and CVs didn't just magically appear, people wouldn't be complaining if they worked. Wargaming, wanting to rush out something to make money decided to implement something that was unbalanced and broken and yoiu are trying to tell us it's fine. If it was fine, their would be no-one with issues, I would not be posting this and you would not be trying to convince everyone it's fine.

Had another game which highlights why CVs are a broken hated mess. Was playing my Rooke and spent the entire game getting harassed by a CV, the "stealth" that is my ships strength was completely negated by an enemy I could do utterly nothing against. I and another BB were farmed for about 60k damage and despite shooting down god knows how many planes it continued to come back with a full stack. Could not escape, could not counter, could not do anything. Thus I spent the game doing nothing but trying to dodge planes and enemy ship shells due to being perma spotted., This is my issue with things like CVs and Subs, you have two classes of ships in a PvP game that cannot be countered and one can't even be hurt back. It allows one player to risk nothing whilst attacking another. In real life, planes don't respawn so CVs did risk much, in this game it's a joke for them to cause damage. Though of course to Sub and CV players everything is fine, because everything favours them. Very frustrating and time wasting, I have learned to give up if there are two CVs and Subs on the enemy team, got better things to do than be a (if you mind the pun) floating target. If there was a match making option to exclude CVs and Subs, I would have it checked, but I suppose Wargaming knows if they did that, most players would do it.

Ah I see I and everyone else have been doing it wrong and need training by an elite player such as you? I got an idea, why not get a friend and make a video on how to avoid them and post it here so everyone can see? So you agree that homing torps should be removed? In order to shotgun a player a sub has to put itself in a very dangerous position, I doubt it would become the default. Most likely Subs would be treated as more stealthy destroyers that have to use their stealth and torps as opposed to main guns. Maintaining distance while lining up their shots as opposed to pinging someone a million times and getting a guaranteed hit.

Ah, I see! You must have access to one of those new light speed Battleships? You know the ones that can stop and start on a dime and have the turning circle of a spinning nickel? Turn into them or away and you take a nose or stern full, stay broadside and you get a side full. If they were so fantastically easy to dodge their wouldn't be so many people with issues. They are on easy mode and do the work for you. Yes, I understand not everyone is fantastic and super like you, but if there were no issues then their wouldn't be such a sour mood to Subs. But if the best players are the ones who do not use homing, then surely you agree that they are not needed and are holding sub players back? :P

Because people who play submarines are the only people that don't have an issue with submarines. Because removing homing torps and balancing them would mean that you don't get to cheese it. Not sure yet if sub players have hit on that they are in a minority here and that most people have issues.

Very well then, if you want to do this. So one type of torpedo spammer is okay (Subs) but the other type (Shima) is a big no no? So what you are saying is that you have had bad encounters with a ship you cannot respond to? Like how many players feel about subs? But any complaints about subs are just whining? A Shima is a big threat but it can be countered, as a surface vessel it's always in danger of taking damage, Radar, Hydro, Planes. All these can spot them and Radio Location gives you a rough idea of where it's at. With a Shima you can avoid its torpedoes, they do not home in on you and have a wide dispersion. If that Shima player gets spotted then it's up to their skills as a player to get out of that sticky situation as a Shima is fragile. They can smoke up, but they are still vulnerable to blindfire, torps, radar, hydro and other DDs will feast on them. A Shima does not have a magic "shoot me no more" button that makes them completely invisible and unable to take damage. Read above. That sounds like a skill issue if you are using Damage Control so early whilst still under fire. A HE spammer can be annoying, but they also light themselves up, everyone knows where they are and become prime targets. Even if they smoke up they still have restrictions, sitting in their smoke means you know exactly where they are and they become a torpedo magnet and a radar magnet, I get out of concealment range and let them sit in their smoke doing nothing whilst our own DDs torp them or cruisers shred them with radar. Once again, it cannot avoid damage and has to attack knowing it can be attacked and countered. A DD launching toepedos also lets you know where it is, in the direction of the torps, a good player can judge where about it is. Radio Location also helps. I have killed a Shima in a BB in a one on one. It tried flanking and launching torps, it hit one but the damage was manageable, I had a rough idea of where it was so I pushed against it, it got stuck between me and the edge of the map and had no choice but to pass through me to escape, I lit it up. Not a wise idea to chase a DD in a BB but I was caught alone and had little choice. If that was a sub, they could have literally just went under me whilst hitting me with torps I cannot avoid, no matter my skill, I would die. the sonar ping only let's you know the location from where it launched its sonar, not the direction it's heading and a ASW has to recharge after use, in the meantime you will be spammed to death by pings and torps. Exactly, they counter each other but they can still kill and damage each other. A sub cannot be countered in the same way. A Shima can get the jump on a Smaland and torp ambush it, a Radarcruiser is visible and can be avoided and has to recharge after use, it cannot recharge its radar like a sub can it's dive capacity, so it must use them wisely. A Radarcruiser can destroy a BB if they play well. A Sub, like a CV breaks this by being able to attack and defend from a position that allows it complete stealth or a way to avoid damage. When the ships you mention try to go against and counter each other they risk detection and their HP. Also, in real life a DD is a subs worst nightmare, in this game a sub can counter a DD by shotgunning them or laying low. Where did I scream cheater? and where was I talking about a play? I was talking about an observation. A bad player is bad regardless of the ship. Bad DD players yolo into a point and get killed, bad cruisers treat their ships like a BB and get deleted and bad BBs turn themselves into fat targets. But even they can damage their enemies in return, a CV only risks planes, they just need to sit there and once they have a target they can harass that target without having that target respond. Most people also seem to challenge your claims quite well. What's the comparison here? A cruiser showing their broadside to a sub having homing torps? Because I'm not sure what your point is. He was in a good position capturing a point, as he stated the sub simply bypassed everything and decided to target him to which he had no response. Thus had two choices, run away or sit and take torp hits that he has no way of avoiding. A BB even in open water can counter a DD by angling into or away from the torps but there is no way for him to avoid homing torps. A cruiser risks a lot if it chooses to fight him. He was hidden behind an island but that matters little to a sub. Also, he is moving, he's making heavy use of his WASD and acceleration, always adjusting to bait fire and avoid it. He also did well for someone who was a sitting duck. As you said, the sub was doing nothing special but it completely countered him with no way to respond.

Not really, often you will be placed on a team that can barely keep from crashing into each other whilst the other team is made up of clans and divisions. Complete blowouts are getting more common.