totally_potato

They nerfed the alpha from 14.5K to 12.5K, not enough??

Range is short so agreed Reload is not the problem, its the accuracy particularly the sigma, it needs 1.7 sigma SAP brings a lot of things to the table, for eg, when firing at very light cruisers, SAP will crush them, and for consistent damage u can fire SAP as ur not getting the low alpha of HE or the overpin dmg of AP on anything that isn't a DD.

so the guys need to push. Also seeing a Z-35, Z-23 and Akizuki div. Two of them will protect the Z-23 from DDs, while Z-23 kills cruisers and BBs since the HE on the OG 150mm gun DDs have good HE

Ok my question is, if you had to add diversity in this whole commander rework, then why did you nerf or butcher builds such as Shikishima, French secondary build, or make builds so much focused towards to like one aspect of the ship. A ship like a BB should have all the tank skills within 10-12 points since that's the whole point about BBs apart from firepower. Cruisers should get the basic skills required for all cruisers within 10 points, where they can get more consumable effectiveness and gunpower, and then go for other diverse builds. As for DDs, they should get concealment and module restoration reduction as their first 10 points then the rest of the points for other builds. This rework was supposed to kill off the one build ship concept, in order to get more diverse builds. Here the maximum effectiveness of specialisation should be limited to 11 points, like the brawling builds should get the basic 10 points for faster turret traverse, lower no. of fires, the new emergency repair expert and survivability expert skills (preferably both as one skill), and Adrenaline Rush. Then the specialisation for AA build, Secondary Build, Gunpower build, stealth build, or hybrids builds, etc should be available for 11 points. This was my thought, but onto the question. Why were some builds butchered to get new "diverse builds"?? Like why was secondary cruisers, hybrid builds or lower skill point captains butchered to the ground just to make the 21 point captains look good?? Like please work on the commander rework before releasing new content. Its needed.

The dev who don't play their game, made such stupid decisions

Here is some data https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSD210&modules=11111&upgrades=131231&commander=PGW103&skills=6445089&ar=100&flags=15516&consumables=111&pos=0 Its full gun build https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSD210&modules=11111&upgrades=131321&commander=PGW103&skills=6445089&ar=100&flags=15516&consumables=111&pos=0 Common build AP and AA build https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSD210&modules=11111&upgrades=222224&commander=PGW103&skills=4606505&ar=100&flags=15516&consumables=111&pos=0. And just for test https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSD210&modules=11111&upgrades=222224&commander=PGW103&skills=4606505&ar=100&flags=15516&consumables=111&pos=0 Torp Build Overrall, I've given up I repeat, I've given up. Just no Also I think a new skill could have been given that increases range by 20% for 5% less speed. It would be be pretty good for this line

agreed. Having specialised ships won't work in the current meta.

tried the good old tier 3,4 and 5?? So much fun

I have already showed the basis, and that guy was not yoloing. Yoloing and getting closer to get the broadside are two different things. And yes WG does not play their game. They just look at stats and make buffs. And according to u, i literally just did that. So just shows how much WG understands their game. Lets wait till, the buffs or nerfs they get. Also, they nerfed the torps of the new DDs without testing. So mighty know-it-all overlord, explain the reasoning of this?? Like so many problems already, and they gave the T7 and T8, T22 torps. Keep that testing going.

Right fully ignored by u only, everyone else are suggesting the same buffs. Also Khaba, and Kleber can bounce my AP, my HE does jackshit with a miserable reload. And if u are fighting a kleber, it can run u down, so kiting will do nothing. Also it have bigger superstructure and engines than other DDs, so ez targets to knock out. And kleber can angle hard enough that all guns fire. Plus 70+knot torps, that he can rush u down with plus reload booster. And ifhe Kleber exists, so its gonna kill u. We do have all the data required, from an example of a clip, stats, and already nerf on torps before testing. At this point a good buff is needed, and hopefully the guy who died to the worcseter can provide the necessary info to the devs. Then again the devs need to start playing the game to suggest the right buff

Challenge?? U have a 7.5 second reload, and while u outspot a kleber, if he catches u broadside, he will kill u. And 139mm HE is no joke. It will break engines really fast and set fires, and u are a huge target, with armor that covers he midsection with the rest being 19mm so farmable. And u have no way of disengaging, becoz ur slow, no smoke, or speed boost. Meanwhile khaba has 50mm belt and is fast as f, so whats the point of playing this ship?? Literally half the armor, and slower, just for better AP shells. So much for one ridiculous aspect?? No thnx. This ship needs buffs. And also 36mm, will work half of the time, coz alot of heavy cruisers pin u, and IFHE light cruisers. And then we have MVR rocket planes, and torps. This ship needs alot of tweaking no matter how u see it. Also Daring has improved pin angles so yeah, good luck

And u didn't even mention the size. And it can cit moderatly angled cruisers, not full angled ones. Look if the German DDs are good then its good for all. Im not biased. Im saying it needs buffs to make it good. And that was the best case scenario, imagine being the only DD in ur team, with a kleber on the other side, while doesn't have a cit. AP my [edited]

Ok now here is my point of view, and I was heavily against Flamu calling these ships bad but seeing this clip tells us the issues this thing has. First of all, he had HE loaded becoz he might have been fighting something else, so that doesn't cout as a mistake, and the Wooster was unspotted so when he was spotted then the Elbing shot the HE to quickly get a few hundred dmg before chunking the AP onto him. The second problem here, is that, with the speed and turning circle it currently had, the Elbing would be dead before even leaving 9km let alone 10km. And thirdly, this ship is supposed to counter light cruisers with powerful AP shells, and armor, and while the AP was good, you can see that the armor is pretty much non existent. And the size of that thing, combined with horrible manuverablity, made this thing a dmg pinata. And slowed down? Seriously? That thing has terrible propulsion (it's clear from the engine module it has, coz it's some crap horsepower). And that size literally ensured every single shell from a ship whose shells are slower than turtles, hit that ship. And the health did jackshit. That ship is a handicapped ship if I have ever seen one. And the Worcester is a light cruiser that is supposed to get countered by this ship. And I'm basing my judgement on the stats provided to us, some data mining and that clip. Idk how this ship is to counter light cruisers. I mean the French are unhittable and have magical hulls, but this is as jackshit as it could get. WG needs to overall buff these ships hard, or another line I'm not interested in. And the whole point of this thread is to ask for suggestions to improve the line, and you are here asking us to trust WG, which atm I can't becoz of what they did and are doing. Also 36mm pin is hilarious? Why does Khaba have [edited]50mm? And even that is not considered OP. So 36mm is nothing atleast in this meta. And it would only bounce Yamato shells hitting at a flat angle close in. Longer ranges is now where Yamis reside, and so it would hit the deck plunging in, giving pins. If you can give suggestions of improvement, then good, otherwise don't waste other's time with these useless comments. Also, supertesters are usually good players, so that wasn't potato play considering the stats of the ship, and the situation he was in.

Go to the 35:30 time, then you'll understand how it performs in battles. And while stats do tell you half the story, the clip in this video combined with the pretty shitty stats tells how this ship performs

As you all know, German DDs is considered [edited] most of the time. While the old line is quite good in my opinion, the new line is still pretty trash for now, nothing has been improved and the torps were nerfed. Just some suggestions on how this line can be improved. Now first lets look at some of the good things. I am going to show u the tier 10 coz it highlights the line Monstrous survivability:- Good AP Alpha Damage: 4,100 Muzzle Velocity: 960 m/s Better than average armor (although limited to DDs, low gun caliber CLs) 19mm bow and stern, with 25mm belt and deck. Kind of usuable AA with Def AA If running full stealth, not bad considering size Limited yet useful consumables As for other characteristics, it gets weaknesses that are to much, that the strengths don't matter. First of all, reduce the reload to 6 seconds Give them the old 14.4k torps, coz those are great considering the reload. Give them another useful consumable like emergency speed boost, or UK smoke or full speed smoke. Change the def AA, to something like 700%+ shell explosion, 150%+ continuous dmg, with 15-20 second duration and 40 second duration and more charges. Give the HE more fire chance. Give all the Germans, the German 6km hydro coz it gives them something above all other lines. Finally, give them armor that does something against cruisers, coz they are primary targets for this line. Maybe 36mm? Or 32mm? That's my suggestion

10% dmg taken from BB sap shells, while others get the standard 33% pin. Go figure

yup, DDs are kinda protected, but other classes are gonna be shitted upon by this SAP

yaay, finally a new game type that will be fun

Remember Conq Lmao

without the buff, the dsipersion would be unusable, and its still not pretty now, so ur OP americans are saved.

maybe switch to warplanes before that thing dies

then let both ships have it, along with mainz. Would be interesting brawlers

should be tier 10 or 9 lmao

yeah stalinium armored beasts can do 35 knots, faster than a Japanese Gunboat DD with no armor, light guns, one torp launcher. Go figure