totally_potato

pretty much all CVs? Coz they can carry those torps across the entire map

through one liners? Since when did cheesy one liners become exhausting?

what's the point of this thread again?? Like do you want us to prove the contrary or something?

now? Yes but before it was guarenteed dmg on a DD with rockets which is kinda infuriating in all honesty, coz losing 4k at the beginning literally throws that 3 points on SE out of the window.

Haku torps are slow tho. MvR spread covers a fair area to hit the DD, and the torps are 20 knots faster I sucked with them vs DDs at first, but I am a rather efficient DD killer with these torps. Probably even more so since the rocket rework

another unrelated comment Why don't you talk about how my previous comment which you quoted earlier is an "outrageous claim" Or do yourself a favour and leave the discussion as is, coz it ain't going anywhere

I meant me here in the skip bomb hitting DD part so yeah Ig aiming with skip bombers are beyond my potato mind. But I do nuke a fair few cruisers (the ones with vodka in particular) and the BBs I personally find the MvR torps way more consistent vs DDs, which even the above average IQ and skill DD find hard to dodge (let alone something like Elbing)

Good for you then I find the good DD players, avoiding the skip bombs, by just weaving between them. I find the torps on MvR bring me more DD kills and dmg on DDs in general. Even the good DD players kinda struggle to the avoid the torps thnx to their speed and spread. Ig I am just a guy with the right name

that's MvR. Immelmann is kinda bad against DDs

Well what do you prefer? Do you like a DD that's as fast af boi with insane DPM, good AP and is quite tanky? Or a CV that's actually fun, with unique bombs, and your typical torps, memey secs (which I find useful late game), and its as tanky as your typical BB, but with the most insane fire mechanics and dmg control. Influence wise Marceau hunts DDs, can yolo BBs, can take on cruisers due to its AP pen and DPM (no its no Elbing, or Kleber, but it does have some decent pen, so at closer ranges you can deal some hefty dmg to them, plus the torps). So it does have a fair bit of influence Immelmann is a damage farmer. It has no AP rockets to balans cruisers, or AP bombs to balans BBs. So it loses the influence factor that the MvR had. Both are equally fun, respective to their classes. I don't think either are OP (coz lower caliber AP, hard counters Fr DDs coz they are kinda thicc and no saturation to save them vs AP. And that plus the speed makes Marceau tanky, so losing that hurts Marceau, coz it doesn't have the best HP) and (Immelmann has no influence and skip bombs don't dmg anything with a lot of armor, apart from fires)

outrageous claims? That's the best you could come up with? Don't you think ppl would correct me and dislike that comment if it was an 'outrageous claim'. Yet you are the only one trying to and claiming that whatever you say is a fact, with a straight face. Imagine the word of a single random guy on the internet being a fact. That's not how the world works kid Try that with your friends sometime, not with me There is an opportunity of UNO reverse card, and saying that you said your word is a fact is an outrageous claim coz you literally said nothing apart from a couple of cheesy one liners. But oh well, not everyone is a ColonelPete

In 2021, the Nassau, Konig, Bayern, Gneisenau and FDG are the only fun and good ones in their tier They are tanky And the latter three ones have overmatch at their tier

They do have a lot of influence in small engagement modes like Ranked and Brawls. GK was a ton of fun in brawls, divisioning up with friends. In randoms, until late game, no they are kinda crap. That's kinda where low influence ships like Repub and Slava can dominate becoz its a:-

happen to often to justify a brawling BB. Which is what I have a problem with. Like brawling BBs with overmatch and somewhat decent accuracy (FDG for example) still work coz you can adapt to different situations. Scharnhorst doesn't have that, which is my main issue. I'll def try it out in next season of ranked you clearly lost your brain there's that Problem is you aren't at short range all the time. In which case you have to fire the absolutely horrendous HE (its still HE so its useful) For a guy that works, yeah, being careful in a game can be kinda hard at times I saw you losing you point in this conversation and now relying on completely unrelated stuff to drag it out. That's what scums do, and if you wanna be one, no issues man Wlc my dude

That's what everyone says. My word is fact. Keep that 'fact' to yourself, coz you clearly can't accept you are wrong. So discussions and debates isn't for you son

1. Relying on the map is one of the problems I have. There should be long range engagements early game, but not full game. I loved domination becoz you had to push for the caps, especially back in the day. Now, its basically long range engagement most game, with getting to the caps end game. There a re few games, where pushes happen mid game, and sec ships were the best for that crap. And guess what they nerfed this commander rework. The images you are showing based on the graphics, and sec range marked, look like pre commander rework. So idk what you are trying to prove with that. 2. Good rudder is definitely needed as well as good secs. Gneisenau has that. Scharnhorst however....well the rudder shift is pretty much the same as gneisenau which is good, but her secs are way less accurate. 3. Generally if a target is broadside you tend to land very underwhelming shots at mid ranges. Again, the whole cruiser hunting thing is better done by gneisenau, becoz more reliable secs, more speed, and guns that overmatch crap and punish the same broadsides as scharnhorst can. And on BBs, you literally have to fire HE. The AP is that crap against them. Its not only colorados or Nagatos anymore. Its more and more sinops, KGVs which have strong belt armor and shatter your shells at mid range. 4. I didn't mention anything about DDs in my 4th point. And you can help DDs so much more in ranked, coz team line ups are shorter, and the sniping and camping is way less. In randoms, you can't do the old 2017 cruiser playstyle, where you come with your DDs, surprise a few enemy DDs and cruisers, farm ez 70k dmg and once Bbs are in position, you retreat, and in all this while DDs take your caps. I loved that playstyle which is why I enjoyed Scharnhorst so much. Now they pretty much snipe from spawn, from the very start, and as well as HE spammers at close. And usually the DDs you support tend to suicide more than before. 5. Good that it works for you in randoms. Doesn't work for me. It works in ranked. Odin was a T8 scharnhorst (well a design that preceded the scharnhorst class). It had 9 305mm guns with 23 secs. She has good armor. But she has worser HP that even Kongo. Bad AA. No overmatch, and you can't tank much even with the good armor, the HP is that bad. Its nimble, but while they advertised her of having accurate guns, she has far from consistent, let alone accurate. She has hydro+torp combo

I think that HP is an advantage Hannover it needs. Its balanced in its current state It can be released but WG need data to show to their maths teachers so ig we wait

Hannover is already balanced as it is. It can be released into randoms as it its, with whatever stats it currently has. They are testing whether super Bbs can be a thing or not

Depends on your playstyle What playstyle do you prefer, then maybe I can answer that question better

Again hunting DDs require RPF or hydro and scharnhorst can't mount either And you don't see many cruisers as much as before coz ppl have a mentality that cruisers were nerfed when its the SCs that got the bat

1. In randoms, there are so few opportunities for that. And there like only 1 map, that has a late game brawl everytime, and that map is rare. And Scharnhorst is a beast up close, but its getting up close that is so damn difficult. 2. Well to hunt DDs, you need hydro or RPF (and Scharnhorst can mount neither). And good secs against cruisers and BBs. Gneisenau secs are better against DDs while being equally good against other classes. 3. Scharnhorst's AP gets bounced. And with the addition of many cruisers with magical cits, even broadside cruisers just get overpened. Its still quite decent against cruisers. But you don't see that many cruisers nowadays. You see more BBs and DDs nowadays. And CVs. Which Gneisenau can better deal with 4. Everyone snipes. Even more so since Ise came. Played a Scharn game since I hadn't in a long while. I survived till the end with 98 main battery hits. And around 45 of them were shatters or bounces. The rest were pens. Yielded me a fair 70k dmg. I think Gneisenau could have done better here. And the whole close range stuff happens in ranked which is why I play Gneisenau so much in ranked. 5. The steps you pointed out were good, but none of them work in randoms where you spend most of your time in WoWs. In this case you can't have overmatch as it breaks the rule. The next best thing would be give it good HE (but I don't want another HE spammer) or improved pen angles so that it can deal with BBs and cruisers better. And we are getting DDs that can now bounce guns below 15 inch. Give me a guide for Odin to see if that works, coz Odin was nerfed so bad. Lost SE and its secs

the distance at which the meta is nowadays, and if you get any closer, you lose all your HP, your ears (if you are on full volume), your eyes (coz you can't believe the crap going on), and a few points of braincells

There is an even better and more assuring way Put that theory to the test. I have done that when I was a pretty meh player. If someone is advising you, I feel like putting that to the test rather than arguing back by checking stats and stat shaming him are better. Stats is only a last ditch resort, if I feel like the guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about, and I do that rarely.

You don't get up close every time do you?? Also in that situation, I'd rather be in a Gneisenau, coz it has guns that do crap like overmatch and cits the crap out of everything Scharnhorst and Odin don't get that Hence I propose the special pen angles, coz it would give the AP some usefulness and would compensate the guns for being so low caliber. If not that, then some useful HE atleast.

1. How tf can I get in close in this meta 2. I can hunt DDs if this thing has a hydro 3. This thing bounces all AP, if the standard T7 cruiser just angles a bit. Also angling a bit, makes shells shatter, coz the effective armor increases (this is on Bbs not cruisers, you can still somewhat pen cruisers at a slight angles) 4. I have to engage Bbs at some point. And how can you flank them undetected? Its conceal is a good for a BB, at what 12.5km conceal ish. 5. It overmatches absolutely nothing other than British CLs and DDs at its tier. And a ship shouldn't be based on what different tiers it fights, it should be balanced based on its tier. Which is why I propose special pen angles like DoY, and a bit better disp. And low caliber BBs include Odin. That thing also needs special pen angles, coz it overmatches nothing apart from the same Scharnhorst overmatches.