totally_potato

yeah like Tashkent has more range for some reason, and one less gun. But that's leveling up. Their playstyle is still the same. Do some jackass farming, handle a potato DD, don't cry about it. That's basically what they do. Slava to Yamato? Slava does have a gimmick. Some artificial dispersion formula that makes no sense, while Yamato accuracy in modern WoWs is standard with good sigma. It doesn't rely on some special dispersion curve that encourages dispersion.

agreed. I am right at home coz I somehow I got 90k matches in Z-31. but my god is it an uphill struggle. How do you cit a Salem with GJM. I couldn't even cit a baltimore at freaking 8km. Ig my aim was wrong. In Felix I can cit CLs at around 10km. As for CAs I need to be around 6km. Elbing cits everything LUL The Felix and Elbing did prove us wrong. Looking at stats before, I thought the GJM would be the best of the bunch.

there are only so many ships that will follow that. Lets take away all the gimmicks from DM and look at the base ship. Same with Hindi. Then why play DM over Hindi. There are a fair amount of combos. But gimmicks are required to a) support the ship in its intended role, b) to make it different. If gimmicks were never a thing, and your proposal of just different setup of guns, speed, etc was put up, this game would be over, 2 years ago. Gimmicks are completely fine. Overabundance of them are not, but gimmicks are necessary to make a ship/nation feel different.

well Elbing is quite a nice ship to play. Felix really does teach you how to play this ship. While Felix dumpsters lower tier cruisers and same tier CLs extremely well, Elbing dumpsters all the mfs. The HP really allows you to be effective. You can survive DD gun fights, you can go up to flanks of ships and deal huge chunks of AP dmg. The HE is not that bad either is certain situations. Like the high accuracy makes up for the alpha. 3k ez dmg on DDs plus a few bones broken (engine, turrets). The high pen allows you to fight BBs and cruisers with the HE if necessary. But AP is what you should fire. 3-8k salvos on angled cruisers and BBs, cits for cruisers, and angled DDs just die if they angle to this AP. And unlike the previous DDs before it, even AP ovepens can hurt. 2.6k volleys. So amazing firepower and good survivability considering she doesn't have a heal. She is pretty sluggish tho. Her conceal is relatively mediocre, but if you look at the size of the ship, you'll realize its not that bad. For open water gun boating a double rudder build is advised which gives a snappy 3 sec rudder time. Also thnx to 2/3rd of her firepower in the back, she can kite very well. But you have to be conservative. No capping at the start. You can support your DD in the cap by staying a few km behind and providing gun support/something else to shoot at. She also will punish the cruisers trying to come in. She is different from the general concept of gunboats. She brings a different approach. She was definitely difficult to play at first, but now, she is basically the ship I wanna relax in, wanna have fun in, etc. Oh also, her AA is defenitly above the average DD. So much AA coverage. Your AA + the ally you are supporting can create an AA bubble that can be rough to deal with. There are three builds and ways to play Elbing There is the generalist build (Pyro/Swift fish) There is the full gun build (reload) (you can play with concealment mod but double rudder allows you to open water gunboat) Then there is the ambush build (she surprised me quite a lot when it came to ambushing Khabas, cruisers, etc)

whole point of RB is ambush. And the ships that have them don't overmatch much. So just git gud. And cruisers have that reload permanently slapped on em, BBs get it for what a 1/4th of a min? Especially the fact that many cruisers are balanced with reload. Goliath and Venezia for eg. Your proposal is to reduce them as well? Goliath with Hindi reload. What a joke

@The_Chiv Now can we break down the T10 Elbing rn? Just asking

if you do feel like AP will be useless anyway, fine use the HE. It may be considered bad individually, but the high accuracy and good velocity, contributes to the HE being fairly ok, coz you do high alpha dmg on DDs and you break a fair few mods along the way coz 150mm HE. 3k HE salvos, yes please.

the AP performance vs DDs individually is not great, but landing a lot of overpens deal good dmg. Auto ricochet is also special, so the DD has completely turn away from the ship to bounce the AP, and thus only using back guns. Also the AP can still hit the deck and penetrate. Overpens happen on DDs, but if they are broadside, more shots land dealing more dmg. In the case of the tier 8. With 5 shells hitting with overpens (which happens quite a lot with these DDs on broadside DDs), you deal about the same dmg as any other DD at that tier apart from maybe the japanese would get with their HE on a good volley. And if DD angles up, that's good for you, coz AP has DM pen angles and and since more ship is covered, fuse goes off and results in pens. If they completely are stern in or bow in, that's 1/3rd to half their DPM gone. Also AP on the deck will still pen, since the ballistics of the T7 and T8 are more normal than special, so you will get arcing shots to hit the deck. Do not insult your name in this convo atleast ffs.

Nice try. Listen folks. When you face a guy who has already supported his claim and you have don't have anything to counter with, you say this, "when your accusations are empty, there is not much to say - you had 4 posts to support your claim, but you did not, because you could not". Keep going, but it doesn't change anything. The T7 faces DDs with 16mm plating. That is not going to work. Also the " AP performance for the Tier VII and VIII will not change by playing the other Tiers". Wut? The T9 and T10 get an improvement in AP performance. You've just confirmed that you have absolutely no idea on what you are talking about. You don't even have the Felix and Elbing which are the ships the line's concept focuses on coz Z-31 is a slightly more than a merchant ship in firepower, and GJM doesn't get the good AP just yet.

Meanwhile me in my chair be like:

another typical reply when there is no other reply left to say. You are becoming so predictable now My opinion is based on what I have experienced and seen from both perspectives so 9/10 my words aren't wrong. Your opinion in this case is half baked. You saw half the picture and started blabbering. How about seeing both sides of the picture before coming back here with another useless comment. Do not try to help others when you haven't even see the picture. Most of the time you will end up harming others.

yeah this was made before the all of those new line shenanigans. Its a better Maass which is the point. Where I downtiered all ships, and balance them accordingly to remove the 150mm Z-23 and fit in the Type 1945. So yeah. We can forget about this for now

Players always complained that the German DDs were in wrong tiers or were too underpowered, etc. So I propose a concept what if line rework. Its just an idea so nothing to be taken that srsly, and i wanted to put this coz I feel like certain changes could be made to the German DD line. Now remember Z-46 was actually strong in its tier, so balancing that ship will be slightly difficult, as I wanted to implement a few changes to the 128mm German HE, so some changes can be suggested for that ship and the concept tier 10, and the other ships. Also i did give some hull options and if I mentioned any stealth numbers, its with full stealth build. Here is how the main line could be changed:- Tier 2 - V-25 Tier 3 - G-101 Tier 4 - V-170 Tier 5 - Ernst Gaede (128mm guns only) (maybe a slight nerf to HP) Tier 6 - Leberecht Maass (Torp dmg reduced to 14K from 14.4K, and very slight nerf to HP) Tier 7 - Karl Galster (or any Zerstörer 1936) (Basically better Maass stats-wise, and the upgraded Maass torps which was reduced from 14.4K to 14K (in my vision), as stock torps and the existing Maass torp upgrade as the upgraded torps for this ship) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n9xY-fYuXIcv91U1CMg_Z6BtLtiiOwHBRsoALy2OGqE/edit?usp=sharing Tier 8 - Z-46 (slight nerf to HP, 3.5 second reload and HE dmg increase to 1700, with 8% fire chance) (two hulls unlock, usually when the B hull is unlocked, and these two hulls give you two options. Hull B has 5.5km hydro and 5.8 km concealment, and other hull gives 6km hydro but 6.3 km detection) Tier 9 - Z-52 (3.5 second reload and HE dmg increase to 1700, with 8% fire chance) (two hulls unlock, usually when the B hull is unlocked, and these two hulls give you two options. Hull B has 5.5km hydro and 5.9 km concealment, and other hull gives 6km hydro but 6.1 km detection) Tier 10 - Z-60 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cgRkwYZSqZvbJtznApmxQ93E7GfoImlkykok7waoWPA/edit?usp=sharing Premiums Tier 6. Ernst Gaede (150mm guns only and slightly improved stats) Tier 7. Z-23 (128mm guns only) Tier 8. Z-28 (Its a Z-23 with the 150mm guns but with some improvments over the existing Z-23, and will have the same concept as the upcoming German DD line but it retains the speed boost and Hydro) Tier 10 Freemium. Z-56 (A 1944 Zerstörer like Z-52 which is a torp boat but actually has usable guns with a reload of 4 seconds instead of the "new" tier 9 Z-52's 3.5 sec reload, and has worser stealth and AA for 12.5km torps which do 71 knots) A bunch of Flottentorpedoboots (maybe as premiums or a third split) Hope the topic is interesting.

The impact a CV has isn't the dmg. Its the utility provided. RN CVs are relatively meh coz their dmg doesn't stick. They were still powerful becoz of the impact on the game. Which is what makes having planes = more impact on the game. Also torpedos are fired, whose dmg sticks They are underperforming coz some of the players, don't even know how to play it properly. Some try to utilise only one aspect of the ship and fail miserably, some just camp back and do nothing, and then some just yolo in at the end when game is over. Not to mention its for dubs. So a lot of players can get it including the absolute potatoes of T4. ZF-6 has an avg WR. But it'd take a while to find a person who'll say ZF-6 is garbage or at best average aka meh. Maybe if you actually listened to what others are saying instead of half reading a reply, and trying to come out with stupid comments like this, 'Maybe you would be able to see why they (and Ise, while I'm at it) are underperforming if you were actually good at the game', you could understand what we are saying and why we are saying it.

typical of your denial I am more human than ever. My opinion can always be flawed. Atleast its not half baked

typical then put a disclaimer that your opinion might be flawed coz you have only visited one side of the spectrum.

crap. Gotta change that. Just looked at the 4km range and thought it was Maass Hydro. Thnx for pointing that out Ok changed Yeah sry. Made a big error on hydro and AA. How does it look now. And oh what a shock. Maass is getting nerfed

you brought it up in the first place ...from one end of the spectrum. To make a fully informed opinion, both sides need to be looked at. So first play the DDs then form an opinion sure bud sure

where did that come from. Its the 4km hydro that Maass got not that it matters anyway didn't I literally make this a Tier 8? I am pretty sure I made this DD with some tier shuffling or removal of Maass in mind Edit: Nvm, Maass is Tier 6 and this is the T7

no, saying soviet and German heavy DDs are completely opposite. Thnx for closing my eyes again, oh great one Which leads to a half baked opinion Yeah, this playerbase continuing to surprise me

can't MM be +1 or -1 spread? How would that affect queues?

yes. Why do you think we complain about CVs in the first place? regarding the whole medical thing, You were wrong about me being a "internet doctor" and the amount of bs you were spitting out should have already told you where you are wrong

yeah sorry https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n9xY-fYuXIcv91U1CMg_Z6BtLtiiOwHBRsoALy2OGqE/edit?usp=sharing Btw yeah I have been thinking about the type 1945 DD a lot. As a steel DD would be nice if it was different. Maybe give it good guns with amazing AP, good AA, and good hydro, but bad torps, bad stealth, and bad turning radius. Kind of a DD leader, cap contester DDs, that ctually not only locks down caps with hydro but also with some good gunpower.

German HE is far from weak. Its balanced and competitive. Why? Coz its guaranteed dmg in most cases but very low dmg in return. Z-52 HE is quite good for a reason. The entire point was, that if the dmg was guaranteed then the dmg shouldn't happen in one go. It should happen over time. Midway bombs for example have pretty high dmg potential, and its guaranteed. What I suggest is make CV planes in a way that its balanced around consistency. For eg Hakuryu and MvR could be balanced around high dmg potential per strike, but fairly mitagable becoz planes are either weak (fast in return to get to that place fast) so that dmg can be mitigated a lot so not guaranteed, and Audacious and Midway, could have guaranteed but low damage at once but consistent damage over time.

also if dmg is guaranteed, it should be fairly low. That's what balances German HE, and how things should be balanced.