totally_potato

Elbing and MvR:

Eh Konig already proved that. Yes it has less sec range, but the secondaries are quite equal in power, and it can pen higher tier BBs pretty effectively too. Also the base ship is not terrible. Oklahoma as a ship is terrible, and Agincourt isn't that great. Konig is a good ship combined with secondaries. And its a bit faster than the ships present at that tier apart from Pyotr and Kongo. There is a reason I consider these three ships, the Big 3 of T5. But yeah. Hopefully, Derfflinger proves herself in combat Ig that's your preference. But if you ask me, I prefer Gneisenau guns over Scharnhorst or Odin guns. 1. It overmatches everything at its tiers, and some cruisers at higher tier, and has good pen and punch. Scharn guns are so damn lacking in all aspects and the HE is terrible.

when a game is big, devs don't give a crap, unless those devs actually care about their creation. Among Us for eg, the game has been very popular, and they are working day and night to make the game look better. WG on the other hand lul

if we take away the gimmicks both are basically rapid fire cruisers, one has 3 seconds better reload, and the other has 3 more guns. That's basically the difference. Yes there is a range difference as well as the fact that Hindi has some pretty good ballistics so it can fight better at longer range. But it also fight pretty well in close range, coz 12 guns, as well as torpedoes. And I wouldn't exactly classify the dmg of the shell as a gimmick ( I consider, special pen angles, special HE pen thresholds, short fuses as gimmicks tho), so Hindi with similar pen to DM, has a lot of alpha. But DM pumps out its dmg faster, but not that much faster. So practically they both are pretty similar, and their differences that they do have, won't be appealing to the mass audience of WoWs. So I feel like gimmicks, in a stable quantity, is a necessary evil.

yeah, the calm before the storm as one would say

88% to be exact as far as I know Conq with 45% or something like that Just coz a ship is low tier, that doesn't mean they are irrelevant and you can't play them. Only 1 thing left, Jingles, Flambass, and hopefully Drach and SLM collaborating and recreating Battle of jutland. Hopefully, the Mackenson is included if they want to make a what if

if it does get those guns, then its the biggest guns at T8?? Just like how an Elbing has the biggest guns for a DD? This thing is definitely an Elbing that ate too much and has a big forehead yeah I do kinda expect the line to be like that. Although I do expect the BCs to have laughable AA, coz let's face it, these are 1910 designs. CVs weren't taken into consideration as srsly as ships of WW2 for eg. If they make these ships pretty dang quick, then they probably don't need the most armor. They can just get in, do a couple of drive-bys, and get out (the T10 fires 8 torps per side so yeah). So the caliber could go from 283-305-350-380-420. And hopefully the main battery guns are decently accurate. And hydro would be nice of these ships. So all in all, we have a line of BCs, that are good flankers, can get in quick, dumpster some crap, get out, but if caught, it can't tank that well, and will die pretty quick. They are the master of cruisers, and eats them for breakfast or crap like that. But I think they will have reduced plating. So probably the T3-T4-T5 will have 13mm bow and stern, T6-T7 will have 16mm bow and stern, T8-10 will have 27mm bow and stern. My basis for this theory, is becoz of Repulse and the very recently released ConStealPassion. Both are battlecruisers, and are marketed as so. So just like how heavy and light cruisers have different plating, Battleships and Battle cruisers will have different. So now why am I saying these values? That's coz Repulse is a T6 BC and it has that plating, and its the same plating as same tier cruisers like Aoba, or Dallas, etc. So if my theory is correct, the T3-5 will get 13mm bow, coz its same tier cruiser plating. And the T8-10 BCs will get 27mm coz conshowstealer has it, and its same tier bow and stern as the T8-10 cruisers. And this armor is enough to protect them from cruisers, which was the concept of BCs anyway. For the T4 and T5, the 203mm guns will be a bit of a problem. And getting uptiered will suck mothballs, since by looking at the pictures, only the T8-10 get the torps, unless they are adding underwater torps to these BCs, and well their armor is gonna be pretty bruh. So I would suggest giving these BCs a bit better acceleration and deceleration to juke BB shells atleast. As for deck, well atm, I can't tell. It might be standard (T3-5 = 19mm, T6-7 = 26mm, T8-10 = 32mm) in some, 50mm in the majority. As for TB, I am not so sure, coz PEF is in the game, and it has no TB, and Mackenson is in the line. So probably no TB, so probably low citadel (waterline). Also I hope, they have good conceal, so that I can find a use for Swift in silence. they get the survivability skills atleast

When I talk about any ship, I always keep the MM spread in mind. I don't only talk about that particular tier. But regardless of that, in case your eyes are trash, I did mention that there are 5 tier 10 BBs that cruisers can reliably be immune against. CC, GK, Montana, Bourgogne, Slava, Conqueror (but no one fires AP in Conq). DM for eg, can bounce shells from them. DM before would have not been able to bounce Slava, Conq, GK, Montana, with her 27mm plating all round. Now DM can bounce all of these. I am not being dishonest, its more a case of you coming to a conclusion, without trying tho understand what I have said. And absolutely DM and hindi without gimmicks, would be pretty similar, and not enough difference, to convince ppl o try hindi if they try DM, and vice versa. So whatever you have concluded to, keep convincing that to yourself, and it might become true for you. I am done trying to explain things to over-smart ppl such as yourself

'dishonest use of the wrong calibre to prove your point' Let's see. We have T8-10 in the MM spread. So pretty much half of the BBs in T8 are 16 inch gun armed with half in 15 inch. T9. All the BBs have 16 inch guns, with 3-4 15 inchers, and what, 3 18 inchers. At T10, we have 5 BBs armed with guns that bounce of 30mm. Dishonest huh?

yes I did read your post. You said 16 inch isn't the standard T10 BB caliber. SO you meant to say cruisers are squishy, so I gave my answer directly Don't you know how to read MY post??

wut??

483 is exactly 19 inches so ig they did that. Also, wiki does say 483mm, but whatever. Very small difference, better to forget fn

huh Not bad. But I think 8 420s is too weak for T10 so she needs improved accuracy. Not BC accuracy, maybe Ohio levels? Then a 8 483mm version as Hull B. Here you trade, reload, accuracy and velocity, for alpha, pen (so theoretically similar DPM), and overmatch and range. Note that the accuracy the 483s should have is similar to current Hannover with a bit better sigma So it could be something like this Hull A:- 4x2 420mm guns Firing range - 21.3km Reload time - 21-24 seconds Turret traverse - 32.73 seconds Sigma - 2.0 Velocity of HE and AP - 850m/s AP dmg - 13,500 HE dmg - 4,800 Hull B:- 4x2 483mm guns Firing range - 21.8km Reload time - 29 seconds Turret traverse - 40 seconds Sigma - 1.9 Velocity of HE and AP - 810m/s AP dmg - 17,300 HE dmg - 5,500 So that could make GK have a bit more variety, and it might be fun to play again. Also that SS thing I mentioned earlier. And then the GK 406mm premium, with torps, could work. And then Hannover, could have its guns upgraded to 508mm (the freaking british now have it, might as well give it to the Germans too) with the following characteristics and its H-44 size anyway. 4x2 508mm guns Firing range - 23 km Reload time - 31 seconds Turret traverse - 45 seconds Sigma - 1.8 Velocity of HE and AP - 790m/s AP dmg - 18,850 HE dmg - 6,300 This all should happen, ofc, when the super BB concept works.

doesn't make much of a difference. Its a game, so they just change the number and it says the same, coz it still overmatches the same thresholds. I agree that would be nice

Farm damage is an objective, not a playstyle. But ok ig. That is technically not my build, but its a viable one. But this is a full reload build, which also works well Better than Khaba, Harugumo?? I would say it takes a different approach, relying on accurate high alpha shots for dmg, than rain of fire, to put it precisely.

German stream Also HMS incomparable with 88% fire chance Oh jesus Let's wait for the english stream

they give up tankiness for conceal. That has always been the concept. Also they got devstruck before, why is this a problem now?

Ig if they make BB AP shells only do 10% dmg to superstructure regardless of pen or overpen, and they buff her secs, and good firing angles, then we have a nice ship Even without superstructure change it would still be ok. If you want 8 guns of Gk, then it has to be hannover caliber. Otherwise, it just won't work. GK is also the size of H-42, so it would work Maybe give an option for these. Hull A gives the 12 420s, and Hull B gives the 8 483s, and better firing angles. There we have it

Ig, if they bring Hannover guns to T10, and make Gk's sec accurate, then its fine. Then again, the main problem is the city of berlin on top of it so yeah. Also H-40A when???

Variety?? I'd say go american heavy cruisers. German(1st branch)/British DDs. Don't try BBs rn, they are kind of meh. For CVs, americans and Germans For specialisation, if you want torps, go european or Japanese. Or even Pan asian for that matter. If you want guns, go for French, Japanese second line T8, American, German split and British For cruisers, there is a lot to choose from. If you want HE spammers, British CAs, Japanese cruisers, German cruisers (T6 and 7 for that matter coz, 8 is crap), French cruisers If you want AP ships, Soviet heavy cruisers (although they are from T8), British CLs, American heavy cruisers If you want high utility ships, go america For BBs, just get the Russian, Japanese. If you want a secondary ship, go German. Secs have hit by the nerf bat hard, but they still work in ranked. Some line suggestions for fun CL? British CL line. We also have some DDs that are basically light cruisers. The German DD split. You can't play them as DDs. Felix and Elbing in particular, have very bad TC and rudder shift and are slow and massive for good guns (they aren't RoF, but more high alpha AP guns) and good survivability.

absolutely cap Thunderer's accuracy was good, but it wasn't that good that it'll land a 10k salvo on a DD with atleast 1 braincell. The reasons why DDs stopped playing was becoz so many DD counter cruisers, then CVs, and after the rework, DDs gained a bit more popularity after the rework. Then this rocket change significantly buffed DDs, so CVs started going after the BBs more and more, so less BBs. More cruisers now, which keeps DDs in check, but then there are some heavy DDs that are like "come at me bro". High tier cruisers are far from weak. Most T10s now completely bounce 16 inch guns, so they are tankier than before. Their dmg output and utility also matter. Yes they get blapped easily, but that's what balances them. If the cruiser was super tanky as well, what's the point of BBs? SCs aren't supposed to overmatch, they are supposed to punish mistakes harder, while they can get punished themselves. Yes they are less tankier. Not that it matters, coz you are supposed to provide alpha as a cruiser, and be the second line big gun. Although being an alternative tank was nice. Ofc its gonna take time for cruisers to kill BBs. And to counter the said DDs that counter cruisers, you just go bow in. Do you want everything handed on to you, in a silver platter??

absolutely Even AP overpens hurt. On Elbing the base AP has 410 dmg on an overpen. 410*5 or 410*6 (you often hit many shells) = 2050 or 2460 dmg. And AP doesn't saturate on main hull of DDs. Add the AP skill and you go to 2.6k dmg. HE also hits hard on unsaturated DD, coz it deals a fair chunk of dmg (when is the last time you saw any other DD deal 3k at a DD at 8km) and wrecks modules for breakfast. But I think this ship is pretty bad against DDs at close range, not coz its bad in a gunfight. Its coz DDs often fire torps at close range (completely the right decision from their side) and Elbing has Yamato TC and almost Khaba double mod bad rudder. But the conceal and maneuverability balance this ship. So don't have a problem. TLDR is Different playstyle, Different approach to gunboat, no HE spam = me likey likey

jesus the T8 That's a 4Head, no 10Head, no 100Head Did Elbing eat too many German burgers and Russian vodka????????????????

Anyway, can we discuss about the topic given above. Gimmicks are completely unrelated here Kindy open a different topic for that

ok. Understandable