totally_potato

Konigsberg is one of the, if not the best T5 cruiser. Celebes comparatively is weaker, but I enjoyed her. Idk but I have found her AP to be quite nice. And I have trolled many BBs up close by just flat broadsiding and laughing as he fails to kill me. I think Eendracht is the only fun in this line coz the AA is amazing despite the range. Shot down a full Lexi squad once

Marceau is a high speed French DD leader/mini cruiser. Like Kleber, it shares the yolo style torps however the torps are different. They do less dmg, reload longer, and are slower, but they have a 9km range. I would have called worse torps than Kleber, but I did find sneak attacks much more useful coz more range gave me a bit more room. However the guns are the selling point of Marceau. They are basically Colbert guns. 8 of them. She has some of the best DPM for a DD. Same HP and saturation mechanics of Kleber, but she has lower conceal. Combine that with the speed that most French DDs get, she can easily hunt down destroyers. She is quite a fierce knife fighter thanks to her survivability, DPM and yolo torps. Her AA is also quite decent. Its no Elbing or Halland in AA, but its alright. She is good at jackass farming and hunting down DDs. The AP has some of the best pen of its class, only bested by Elbing, Kleber and Grozovoi. However her ballistics are floaty, so hitting targets at long range that aren't BBs or super cruisers will be a challenge. She suffers the same problem as many DDs, which is applying DPM. However her rate of setting a ship on fire is quite good, and superstructure does exist, so she can punch above her weight if necessary. Napoli is a close to mid range focused heavy - 'er' cruiser armed with 254mm guns. This guns are big enough to overmatch super CLs, which is a good advantage to have. Unlike most Italian cruisers, she doesn't get SAP on her main guns. She fires quite good AP with Moskva levels of pen, and good velocity, and mediocre HE, that does work when needed. Her guns have a long reload, and are quite inaccurate (to emphasize on short range engagements). She also has quite short range for a cruiser. Her torpedoes are mediocre sea mines. Slow, low dmg, very stealthy, but good range and reload, with good firing arcs. She can stealth torp, but you that's irrelevant relative to her playstyle, but if the situation arises, when you do decide to go dark, you can send some invitation cards to the enemy unexpectedly. Her "selling" point however are her secondaries. This battery consists of 90mm and 152mm guns that fire SAP. They don't have any improved range, and you can't build to much for them. However, the accuracy is good, and the floaty arcs on the 90mm guns ensure that her low penetration of 26mm isn't an issue as it mostly hits superstructure. Her secondary DPM and overall effectiveness against targets is quite good. But since its SAP, no fires, no dmg bow in targets, and no dmg against heavily armored targets like Kremlin. SO keep this in mind when building for secondaries. Two things I like about Napoli are her Stealth and speed. She reaches CL levels of concealment and 37 knots is quite fast, and its without Outnumbered but with SM flag. It allows her to reposition, get closer and also ambush other cruisers and BBs. Her armor is also quite exceptional. She has a weak upper nose, but she does have an Icebreaker, good deck armor, upper belt and is a narrow target when presenting her bow. Its no Petropavlovsk, but its the cruiser that comes closer to Petro in armor effectiveness while also having almost 60k HP. So even if you don't wanna play secondaries, you can utilize hit and run, ambush tactics which Napoli excels at. She is a strong and balanced ship. Her [edited]is exposed coz the boxes there are shell catchers and just arm AP. For Gunther, TLDR is, he is a good captain for cruisers and destroyers, ok for BBs, and decent for CVs (even better if you spec for secondaries and decide to push in late game in a winning match). She is best on Z-52, Elbing, Hindi, and Mainz. For the above two ships, Marceau is objectively a better pick, but if you want a new playstyle, Napoli is your pick

I love carriers

standard super cruiser build. Sorry but cruiser secondary builds were never possible since 10.0

9.2km max range

ig on the all out brawlers its a good choice, on the more versatile ones like FDG, or the American premiums, Concealment might be better. Trying to make my ship as good as possible while still buffing my secondaries.

well, if they give her the flag and some insane as hell torpedo protection in compensation for the HP, we are good.

Bud, we were talking specifically about Yoshino, not Super Cruisers in general. Now lemme tell why Super cruisers are amazing and relevant in the game. The main concept of Super cruisers is to be the second battleship. It can bring heavy firepower comparable to a lower tier BB. Now at first that might sound weak, but it really isn't. They tank exceptionally well for cruisers, and bring BB firepower. However, their armor is still cruiser grade, so you don't want to tank for long. Especially becoz you have 60 second fires. Now there is a lot of variation of super cruisers, as I will show below. But Super cruisers in general are pretty good cruiser killers, second battleships, and damage farmers. So they are unique and have a place in the game. The Japanese are the ideal glasscanon. They have amazing offensive firepower, but can't tank and have very little defensive power. They have high speed, but bad maneuverability. These are the cruisers where you absolutely don't want to push in, unless its late in the game, and the BBs are either on the other flank or the BB is one you can take on aka 15 inch gun armed, or there is no BB left. Then you can go in and try to kill the cruisers, coz your guns are amazing for that. They also have the lowest detection for super cruisers, tied with the Germans. The Americans bring all rounded-ness to the table. You know why we call Alaska OP? Becoz it can do everything. It has big guns that hurt cruisers and battleships. It has radar and hydro, to provide support to the team, hunt down DDs, and defend itself, it has fairly good AA defense to defend itself, and it has the armor to tank things for a while. The same can be said for congress. As for PR, well its slightly more unique. Its an actual small battleship since its hella tanky, and has big firepower to bring. The Germans bring combat to the table. They are pretty good at all ranges. Agir and Siegfried have the highest alpha among their peers (Siegfried among all of them, Agir among all T9 cruisers, and some of the T10 Super cruisers, only beaten by stalingrad). They have accurate guns, with high alpha AP, with a standard reload. Their HE is pretty mediocre, but that's standard for non-japanese super cruisers, although they do have the German HE pen, so against heavily armored stuff like Kremlin deck, you do consistent damage. The AP pen on these cruisers is pretty good. Its better than Alaska, Azuma (at closer ranges), but heavily beaten by the soviets by a mile (coz Russian rocks) but its nice to have the good pen. Now, for Agir, its not as one sided like Alaska, or stalingrad, or Azuma, where you fire only 1 ammo type and do well. There is a time for HE, and a time for AP, a design I am quite fond of. As for the Siegfried, you have 15 inch guns, so you fire AP only, unless you want to as good of an HE spammer as the Germans were at taking over russia. You overmatch crap in the Siegfried, and bring a lot of alpha with pin point accuracy, and AP. You have Bismarck pen coz Bismarck guns, and you make Petro look like an actual competitor in a 1v1 than a police man. Also for its nation, before the rework, it had good secondaries, but that went away so what's the point. You have German hydro, and are reasonably fast, so you can hunt DDs fairly well. The armor on them is good. 90mm upper belt pretty much shatters all HE, apart from the tea spillers. And they also auto ricochet all AP in the game. To give you an idea of how thick it is, if the H-45 with its 800mm guns is every introduced to the game, it will overmatch 56mm plating, which isn't even close. They also have a turtleback that works against cruisers and DDs. They do all have big schnose, with no icebreaker, or extended belt, even if some of the designs showed, quite the contrary. Ok I talked a bit too much about Germans, I think you get the point. The Bussian Rias Super cruisers focus on tanking and guns. They dream of being the next BB. Good armor scheme, and some hard hitting AP. Now I am specifically talking about Kronshtadt, Stalingrad and Petropavlovsk. They are designed to tank the enemy, and whittle down their enemies with their firepower. Each of them bring something different to their guns. Kronshtadt has amazing pen for a super cruiser (overtaking Siegfried at about 16km), and good alpha, but battleship accuracy. Petro has Russian BB accuracy, so at long range its jackshit, but close range its a railgun. It has close to Bismarck pen, with improved pen angles and short fuse. However 220mm guns don't overmatch much so there's that. Stalingrad has everything, Petro has coupled with the most insane sigma in the game, 2.6. They also have amazing armor, however all have citadels that are easily punishable, atleast for Stalin and Kronshtadt. Petro has a low free board, so a bit more difficult. They are big, slow, have high detection (Petro being the exception), and are easy to rush, a bit like the americans, since they have no torps. Their HE is also pretty crap tho. They all have 25mm nose tho, becoz the rest of their ship is 50mm+ and insanely tanky if angled correctly. They have a bit of utility with short duration 12km radar. But they can't really fight DDs well. The French, as far as I understood have extremely high speed and decent HE. SO they are flankers. So you see, there is a variation of the big gun cruiser concept and it works splendidly. I think these ships have a good place in the game, and are pretty competitive.

in a BB with 15 inch guns? Maybe probably. You are better off just switching to HE then. But in 17+ inch caliber armed BBs, you don't care, you just smash from any angle. If consistency is the point, then yes, Yoshino, Stalingrad and Yoshino can definitely pull that off far more consistently You could argue that. Wouldn't have any point coz you'd be wrong Do you know the point of an icebreaker?? It is protect the citadel and Stalingrad's icebreaker is high enough that it does just that. You can pen it from the front, but you can't cit it.

wasted? Concealment is a very valuable skill to have and it lets you get closer to fights before you are detected, and disengage fights if you need to. If that's noobish, then FP is the worst skill in the game

27mm nose, aka pretty much every BB you face overmatches you like a jackass. And that 195mm athwartship isn't enough to protect it. Its a large target, so it will be catching a lot of shells. If angled, you are still overmatched by 17+ inch gun calibers and there are a lot of them at T10. The citadel deck isn't impressive either, so you could eat the random citadel. Tbh, they can do it. Even if not as consistently as Siegfried or Yoshino or Stalingrad, they can still do it

I honestly don't consider Elbing's gimmick to be a bad one. I would rather have lines like Elbing's, focusing on AP, rather than on HE. Becoz, they can be mitigated through skill, they can deal insane dmg if played right. Point is, its fine if it does take artistic freedom, as long as these ships function well in game, well atleast the higher tiers. The lower tiers are pretty good imo on paper. Sure its gonna piss off some history geeks, but it has been proven countless times, that WG really gives a crap about history. So oh well, focus on the gameplay then.

Same build mate?

Ok unpopular opinion here But I think there is no point in getting demotivated over a game, or losing your cool I think that anger leads to losing games, becoz you care less and less So I think the best thing is to have patience, carry on and try to play around your teammates actions than depending on them. After all, ranking out gives you rank 1, not the team you played with.

Ig repair game client would solve that issue But I'd rather look at these colors than play this game tbh (JK)

I mean RB is now a flourishing place for new ships, so its better to have it when the ship arrives than not have it But your post and topic name are a bit unrelated tbh As for 1 signal flag, what's wrong with 20? Better to have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.

I actually did try it on PTS with Kleber yoloing. I tend to derp around in PTS a bit so forgive me if I play Kleber like a torpedo boat. I honestly didn't feel the difference. I mean I did see some wonky shots, but not justifiable for 4 points. I'd rather take FB on that torpedo boat to protect myself as much as I can when I get spotted, or SIS, for getting some stupid speed and trying to not stay detected at all.

Yeah I am definitely not one of those ppl. I know that a CL and a CA were designated through their armament and displacement (not quite sure about displacement tbh, but it makes sense to designate them that way), not armor. Did they tend to have more armor? Maybe. But is that a distinguishing feature universal for all heavy cruisers? No Yeah there is a reason I said "maybe", kindly look at the part you quoted Georgia is more battlecruiser playstyle wise, but yes, she is a battleship. A nasty one at that. And yes, I did just check the ship in game for confirmation. The citadel is above the water, and the nose is different compared to Iowa. Its more stout, and smaller. Yes cruisers and low caliber BBs can't overmatch it. So many T8, some of the T9s, and two T10 BBs can't overmatch you and none of the cruiser can either. But the standard and high caliber guns 16"-20" guns that is, can smash these BCs. That is acceptable as long as they have speed to compensate, and gtfo. That's what I am looking for, in thee higher tier BCs. Since at the era of ships at T7-10, technology advanced with full force, and a BB could have enough speed, enough armor, and enough gunpower. So after that, BCs have no place, apart from maybe the plan the Germans had for the O class. Fast commerce raiders/interceptors that carried those big guns, even tho not much of them, to smash through cruisers, and enough protection to get the job done, and very good speed and range, to gtfo before the fleet arrives. And I like that Idea. BCs could be the first line of fire, intercepting the ships, and keeping them busy till the big bois (BB, see what I did there) come in with their fleet. That could have been a viable tactic for Large cruisers and Battlecruisers. So keeping that in mind, WG could give these ships some good speed. T8 could be 34 knots, the T9 could be 35 knots, and the T10 could be 36 knots. Now this may seem a bit illogical, but we have to remember that this is first and foremost, a game. So for the sake of gameplay these ships could be given such speed. And these ships have low HP and plating to begin with so BBs could finally have a good use, and dismantle these ships. Also HE spam would be really effective against these ships. I still wonder tho, why don't we have a sub class concept in the game. The sub classes could take skills from both BBs and cruisers. But ig that's too much to ask for. Now the Incomparable is getting 25mm plating, and probably this will be the case for most of British BBs It could be like this:- British German 13 16 16 19 19 25 25 27 That's how I imagine these BCs to look like based on Incomparable and Repulse. But they will have better and more guns. Yes it does go away, but had they been using the whole intercept and keep them busy concept for the BCs, and had they been trying to increase their speed more and more, there could have been place for BCs. Also a BC does cost less than a BB (ok I am not sure about that, but I am considering the armor), and bad armor meant less weight off-sets, so the engine could theoretically put them up to high speeds, and they could use that speed, to maintain a distance, kill the light ships with their armament, and stall them till the heavier and more numerous unit arrived. The first fast battleships btw were the QE and Nagato classes. They both crossed the 24 knot threshold, and while nagato was more BC, the QE class was a fast super dreadnought so it was heavily armored too. Hood, was a BC probably coz it wasn't as well protected as the slow dreadnoughts, but its protection was good, but it so many weak spots, as the Bismarck kindly pointed out with a middle finger. Scharnhorsts are more BCs becoz well, turtleback was pretty outdated in WW2, but yes its protection was still good, it was pretty darn quick, and its guns were best used against anything that isn't a BB. Dunkerque could also be classified as a BC tbh. And I honestly think that if they make these BCs, exceptionally fast, then they could justify the armor. The HP definitely needs to be increased tho. The T8 HP is alright, T9 could do well with 70.6k HP, and The T10 could be given something like 81k HP. Then it can be acceptable. Then the base ship is alright. As for the gimmicks like torps or Hydro, they can adjust that, to fit the playstyle rather than define it, and we have a good and interesting ship line. I don't trust WG at all, but they did prove me wrong and did bring something unique and fun to the table like Elbing.

I mean as far as standard CL plating goes, it 25mm upper belt and 27mm deck, and for CAs its 30mm deck, and 27/30mm upper belt. I think the only heavy cruisers that have 25mm plating are the soviets and the upcoming NL, becoz the rest of the ship is tanky as hell, so its a balancing factor probably. Also every rule of WG is blurry, so I don't count that, but the IFHE rework especially emphasized the CL and CA designation, and even the Ultra CL designation by giving Colbert, Smolensk trash armor at 16mm. Even Mino falls into ultra CL category as far as armor goes. However austin exists which has better plating than heavy cruisers, so not sure what to think on that, but as you said, the rule is blurry, but its probably just a balancing factor. BCs do already exist in the game, but their concept in game is more fast battleship. The only battleships that come close to the BC concept are the French and probably Georgia (idk why but Georgia armor feels weaker than Iowa and she's as fast af, but ig that's me again, although the hull form is a bit different from Iowa). From what I understood, the armor wise, the German BCs will get enough armor to bounce all cruiser and low caliber BB AP, while the British will only be able to protect itself against all cruiser AP that isn't Siegfried, and all BBs can smash it. Both are vulnerable to HE. I am honestly fine with the armor, as long as the speed is good. Now that's the case upto T6. T7 is where it starts to go wrong. The Prince does 28 knots. The Gneisenau which is in the slower, BB line does 32 knots. THAT'S A 4 KNOT DIFFERENCE, where the BB is in favour. I would suggest switching both the BBs, giving the Prince a bit better AP pen to get close to Bismarck, and then giving Gneisenau the supposed long range torpedoes (Z-31 torps btw). Actually nvm don't do that, Gneisenau is fine where it is, and is my favourite ship, I would say buff the Prince instead. T8 is as fast as the Bismarck but hey, atleast it gets bigger guns. But the speed is disappointing. And its ugly as hell, although I don't mind an ugly ship. Its effectively an Elbing that ate too many burgers and drank too much vodka, and got its head hit by the hammer. The Rupprecht is even more disappointing. 32 knots as a BC, at a tier where Alsace, Jean Bart and Georgia exist. Heck the Iowa is faster by 1 knot and its designated as a BB. If they have to artificially increase the speed, I don't mind as it will give the higher tier BCs a point. The Schlieffen is better at 34.1 knots, but its not much of a difference tbh. Compared to what is arguably my former favourite T10, the worst BB in the game, the GK, it trades the following:- It trades 35,200 HP for 4 knots of speed, a bit of TC and rudder shift (TC is still bad, but not as bad as GK so that's one thing) It gets 27mm plating instead of 32mm tip and 60mm plating, covering the rest. It trades AA range for more DPS and flak (I have mixed feelings about this tbh) It has 105mm guns (a frick ton of them tho) instead of the excellent 128mm caliber secondary battery. It gets more 150mm guns that GK tho, so that's nice. No idea on their dispersion tho The guns are objectively worse than GK, in every single way apart from dispersion. Here is the comparison. GK guns Schlieffen guns Main battery - 4x2 420 mm. Firing range - 20.1 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 4600. HE shell armor penetration - 105 mm. Chance to cause fire – 27%. HE initial velocity - 835 m/s.Maximum AP shell damage - 12950. AP initial velocity - 835 m/s.Reload time - 28.0 s. 180 degree turn time - 30.0 s. Maximum dispersion - 217 м. Sigma – 1.70. HE DPM - 78,857. AP DPM - 2,22,000 So as you can see the guns gain reload (which isn't even that special), shell velocity, and maximum dispersion, for range, alpha, DPM, sigma, and objectively worser shells. For all I know these shells could even have worser penetration. The only good thing they gain out of these is concealment which sits at 12.6km, which is still worse than the Conquering sisters, but its something tho. Its not like HMS Incomparable has sub 11 km conceal.......Oh wait Another good thing they gain is Soviet, but I have my doubts on how big of a difference its gonna make I honestly think that maybe they should get cruiser fire duration?? Their HP is so damn low. But idk. The first thing that should be improved on these things is the speed. Its nice that brisk is a 2 pointer, but then, any BB can pick it up and get that speed (I suppose with that conceal, these BCs will get to use it more??). Now I honestly don't want to make my conclusion like a Potato, before I have seen these ships in battle. I have learnt from the German DDs. I just wanted to point out their potential problems. I could offer solutions, but I won't since that crap is meaningless. Then again I just realised, that I answer your post to present my point on the plating debate, but oh well, my mind is too smol to contain these things.

idk about all that but the 16.5km torps have second best range in the game, good damage, decent speed, and decent concealment, and Gearing fires 10 of them. Plus the guns are anemic starting from 8km. And it has less range than Fletcher for some reason, just like Khaba has less range than Tashkent. And in today's meta with those torps, its screaming torpedo boat in my face lul.

Gearing 10.5 km torps have better damage, better flooding chance and better reload than the 16.5 km torps, which compared to 10.5km torps, have better range. Its a reasonable trade. And I actually use the Gearing 16.5km torps. I use the gearing more like a different Halland. 17.9K is still good dmg, they retain the same speed, and loses like 20% flooding chance (I checked this value from WoWsFT, since the game doesn't give you any flooding chance stat to look at, coz reasons) which is not much tbh for me atleast. And I tend to torp boat (and finally built into torps) more in Gearing that gunboat, which is ironic. But Gearing guns, even at a shitty range like 11km, are so anemic. Gearing, just like halland, has good guns for knife fighting, but definitely not for farming at long range. Its pretty good at close ranges tho. I do use it sometime to have some fun. Sold the 20km one tho. The 8km one is only for some funny shenanigans. Its not comp at all. Nice that WG added a module dedicated for fun I didn't use it, but as far as I have seen, Kleber turns into a stealthier Yolo emilio, without SAP or smoke. You still want to go gun build to take advantage of main battery reload booster. But if you give a crap about the guns, go full torps But I have Paolo Emilio for that crap, so I can play Paolo Emilio for that. Only UU upgrades I cared about were DM, Hindi, Henri, Zao, Yamato, Gearing, Harugumo and Shima. The rest are all worthless for the cost Dazzle is trash 1. Its 4 points so pretty big investment 2. For that expense a skill should be powerful and impactful enough to make a difference. 3. Dazzle isn't what no 2 states 4. The so called bonus is a temporary one. If there was a bonus system in the game which helps you upgrade your ship a bit more after its elite (In case of T10, unless it has some modules to grind, you require 10k ship XP, to unlock that bonus aka first 1-3 games), then crap like Dazzle, Outnumbered, would make more sense

Ok, I actually didn't know that Yoshino had that dispersion. Felt pretty good at long ranges. Ig I am just crap But that's interesting. A supposed japanese supercruiser advertised as a glasscanon "mid" range farmer, has russian brawler accuracy?? Once again. Spreadsheet for the win https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jSwRKeYxGsUz1juEeSWudJmDBtPWEu8WH0BMHPBYaTo/edit#gid=1713912714 Agreed. Yoshino also has some weird cheek like citadel , that you can citadel it and any angle with 17+ inch guns, while rest tend to bounce it. ok. Siegfried is actually using cruiser dispersion curve so it should be able to do the same

thanks

ok But still. Its more RnG than it should be to abuse. Most of the cases you get farmed with 0 awards. This is still by far, the dumbest response I heard from WG.

Absolutely 100% agreed Also I recently bought Tone, and its probably the last premium I am bought. Screw D7P. No matter how good she looks, after this crap response from WG, I give a crap now.