UnterSeeBot

I have been having a hard time, recently in random battles. But it helps to see a friendly name!

as per title/ A Jammer consumeable that blocks all shared intel, radar, hydro, PT, RDF, detection indicator, CV spotting. don't google Jammer for pics (NSFW) like I did. edit : there has been some confusion among the replies to this topic, mostly I think because not everyone wants to read the OP, preferring to go off the title alone. This is not a pro/anti radar proposal, but a proposal for a universal change to detection mechanics, with the help of a consumeable "Jammer". The effect would be to create a communications and radio detection dead zone around the jammer, affecting ALL ships, allied and enemy. This would not affect the human eyeball. Here is a brief history of electronic countermeasures : The first usage in combat of electronic countermeasures was in 1904, by Russian cruisers, to disrupt radio communications between Japanese battleships, thereby disrupting Japanese bombardment of the Russian controlled Port Arthur naval base. At the start of WW1 in 1914, Goeben and Breslaw escaped British pursuit with the help of electronic countermeasures to disrupt Royal Navy communications, both cruisers found refuge in Turkish waters. During the 1940-41 Blitz on London, the UK employed misdirection of German bombers with false signals (the bombers relied on a network of radio beacons for navigation). A more detailed article on the history of Electronic Countermeasures can be found here : https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electronics-world/electronic-countermeasures-electronics-world-december-1959.htm Future tech tree releases will need fresh gimmicks and counters to make them interesting to play. At the same time, future tech tree releases have to find searoom in WOWS to avoid being washed onto a lee shore by enemy CV spotting, cruiser radar, dd (and bb) hydro), and of course, reverse Priority Target (oh, i have been targeted, what/who and where could it be?), detection indicator (c.f reverse Priority Target) My suggestion is a general purpose jammer that would block ALL enemy intel, including radar, ship to ship communications (CV spotting for example), hydro, PT and anything else. Mounted as a Jammer consumeable 3 charges Duration 20 secs Range 7 km Reload 120 secs Tiers 6-10 I would like to imagine such a consumeable being useful for a future Italian dd and/or bb tech tree, or perhaps a revision for general existing game mechanics injecting some fizz into development, and some healthy disruption to the game. Instead of smoke, .. jammers! scenario 1 : CV rocket squadron locates enemy dd, drops fighter squadron to perma spot, positions for attack run, calls for allied players to focus fire the dd, Jammer activated, dd disappears from minimap, remains visible and attackable by the CV air squadron, but immune to indirect fire from other players. scenario 2 : X Cruiser activates radar on a cap, detects enemy Y, asks for focus fire on Y, target Y activates Jammer and disappears from minimap, can only be targeted by X cruiser if direct line of sight. scenario 3 : BB (Roma for example) is detected within concealment range, BB activates Jammer, no effect until the ship that has detected the BB gets within Jammer range (7 km), Jammer consumeable has only 10 seconds left but for those 10 seconds only the ship (a dd for example) can target the BB, or can see it on the minimap. The attacking dds radio comunications (shared intel, hydro, radar, PR and detection indicators) are all offline/disactivated. scenario 4 ! X DD sneaks behind island cover close to enemy Y BB on the other side to launch a torp attack, X DD leaves island cover and launches torps. Y BB immediately takes evasive action AND activates Jammer. Y BB suffers major dmg, but survives the encounter because for 20 seconds enemy team allies of X DD are unable to recieve X DD intel and target. What do you think? Which (if any) future tech tree/nation would be a good fit for this concept? I have looked for previous suggestions of this type on the forum, but have only found one such topic/thread, a year ago, which only concerns radar jamming but which debates the question quite extensively :

we are talking technology from the 1900s to mid 40s, the tech to detect who/what/where is doing the jamming did not exist for most (any?) of that period. please read the OP; before replying as stated in the opening description : only those with visual direct line of sight contact within visual detection range will be able to target enemy ships within the jammed zone.

so are either of the tX freexp dds worth the investment? Or is that freexp better spent elsewhere? Smaland looks interesting, on paper, but then if I need/want a radar dd with (ok) AA at tX, there is always the YueYang. Is the trade of DFAA (Halland) for Radar worth it? As for Hayate, what does it do better, or in a more fun way, than Shima or Hag?

adults only

my poor Roma, I was traumatized earlier today by a pack of dds. think of future tech tree releases, and how they might fit in the game, without being a repetition of what we already have.

But you are assuming this would be exclusive to dds. Historically, early electronic countermeasures were either land based, or required a large ship (cruiser sized) to accomodate them. What if battleships were given ECM, rather than destroyers?

submarines Yes. (once in fact, as Jamming, a year ago and then only concerning Radar, see link to discussion in my OP) Whatever you think of the probability of WG introducing electronic countermeasures in WOWS, would you approve or disapprove of the idea?

would this help or hinder with the problem of CVs?

their slow speed but short arming time makes cross drops quite feasible, vs t4-t7 bbs, excepting Hood, Gneis and Scharn, they are more than effective enough. EL is currenly overperfoming, not only beause its TBs are so easy to use, but because of the excellent HE dive bombers which are a nightmare for dds, but also the t8 rockets in a t6 package. And if the torpedos are not terribly fast, EL's plane speed makes up for that, allowing fast rotations and a high momentum of attacks. EL needs to be adjusted, she is optimised for t8 battles, but faces t4 and t5 quite as often.

going by past examples, dumbed down enough so that newcomers can oneclick to sink enemy dds.

so.. We have tx German CV with jet planes dropping sea skimming HE bombs, IFHE anyone?

a) just dodge b) sink them Or else, offer constructive alternative suggestions to WG that don't fall into the "nerf X / buff Y" merrygoround to nowhere.

this is a separate issue, which greatly muddies the waters (of balancing). The quality of gameplay is so low at times, that a lot of player frustration could be alleviated with a game system that intervened to ensure all players have the minimum knowledge of how the game works. Such a system would doubtless reduce the number of tomato complaints about CVs, and make the more genuine problems and questions concerning them, easier to see and evaluate. Looking at how CVs perform in Ranked is helpful for this reason, but Ranked is a smaller format than where the vast majority of WOWS players spend their time. Ship interaction does have to be tuned to be enjoyable for the average player. The great unwashed masses of averagers, make WOWS what it is, they populate and give life to the servers. CVs as a WOWS concept, break the enjoyment of too many players, while the concept of CVs in WOWS would be broken, if they didn't make life a misery for others (oh the glory days of RTS!) CVs cannot be balanced, but all is not lost. CVers spend their time in the air, not driving their flattop, the CV is a distraction, which we could do well without, by removing it. Keep the air squadron gameplay, but as a, air squadron unit strictly equivalent to the upcoming subs, unique and non replaceable, like any other ship class in WOWS. Which can spawn at the start of battle, in the air (see WOWP), that recharges (very unrealistically) munitions while in the air, that can be more easily countered in a definitive manner by enemy players (by being shot down, which would be the strict equivalent of getting sunk - you don't get a replacement, shot down = out of the battle). As a result, air power in WOWS would be much more tuned to a degree both acceptable to the majority, and to the top 5%. The solution for competitive, where interaction of certain ships is game breaking? Exclude them, I would like to see competitive (Ranked and Clan) restricted to a small number of named ships, excluding anything generally unavailable, excluding CVs if ncessary. Clan already limits the number of certain ship classes, it can go further, anyway, whatever the view on CVs. Competitive, by its nature, should not allow all ships to participate, to make a game mode worthy of the title competitive, a greater number of restrictions will always be required, than for Random battles. Level playing fields and all that. You are right, discussion goes round and round arguing over the same problems, while devs fail to react, because there is no universally acceptable solution to the problematic concept of CVs in WOWS, not for them, not for us. The Concept does not fit, CVs do not fit. Let's get rid of them. But all is not lost, no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, all the development efforts have not been wasted. We can recycle the air squadron gameplay, offer airpower tech trees to nations that had limited or no CVs in the game time period (Pan EU, Switzerland, Italy, France, Pan Asia) and offer the game a breath of fresh air. Everybody, whatever class of ship they are playing, is playing the same game, according to the same mechanics and rules Everybody wins, CV haters get to see CVs removed from the game, CV lovers get to carry on enjoying their air squadron gameplay,.

And nowhere have I suggested or said, otherwise. Balance is not fine, and I have always argued, when asked, that Carriers should be removed from WOWS. But while they are here, well I do my best to deal with the situation, either by playing CVs myself, or by sinking them. this is true, I am saying this. Some dds are especially efficient at sinking enemy cvs, in random battles. nice of you to say I have a lot of skills (I am a potatoe even after all these battles, slow learner me) which is the very nature of WOWS, where skill based MM does not exist, where more experienced players are more likely to sink less experienced players, even if that means a more experienced (potatoe) dd player sinks a couple of inexperienced cv players. But surely, this means things are working as intended, that skilled dd play (*cough*) trumps broken OP cvs? Isn't this a positive result? Why so mad?

the best laid plans don't always work out : that's the alternative reality. My Akizuki sunk by Massmytoenails secondary fire, just as I was about to finish off the enemy cv.

CV survival rates are so low because CVs are usually ignored as targets, most players don't seem to think them worth the effort. Indeed, when I see a small rodent fleet chasing across the map after a distant CV, while we are losing control of objectives, I kinda get depressed. It doesn't make sense for the majority of players to invest the time and effort in neutralizing the enemy CV. But CVs are reasonably accessible as targets by lone dds, indeed I have sunk far more CVs during the rework, while driving a dd, than while driving any other ship class including CVs. My best anti CV bote, is Asashio, followed by Terrible, employing polar opposite tactics (stealthy approach versus rush).

I am sure CV survival rates are already factored into published statistics.

I sink a CV on average, several times a week, while dding. Either at the start of battle, (1st 5 minutes via an edge rush) or at the end/ I don't look up the stats of those I sink, I wish them well. But it is a very common occurence. Is it a good use of my time in battle? Not always! Is it fun? damn right it is. I do not disagree. But that begs the question, can CVs be balanced (?), for both inexperienced (inc those who never learn!) and experienced players (and everyone else in their dd/cruiser or bb)?

Don't stat shame. I should have hidden the names, of the enemies for their sake, I did not expect them to be denigrated here. As for my own stats, my RTS and Rework CV careers are not hidden. My post does one thing, point out that enemy CVs can be sunk by dds on a regular basis, with ease. Don't presume. as for defending CVs, look at my 1st post on this forum. I want Carriers to be removed. (And I removed them!) Well quite, sinking enemy CVs with a DD requires very little skill, at all. You seem to agree with what I am arguing. Bad to mediocre (inc inexperienced) CV players make up the majority of CVs encountered in random battles, therefore, the majority of CVs encountered in WOWS are easy to kill by a dd. Again, I didn't hide the names of the players, as I didn't expect users here to stat shame them, but to be a tad more subtle. They did their best, whatever their published stats visible elsewhere. I should have hidden their names for their sake, but then I'd have been accused of misrepresenting what happened.. Which applies to the majority of CV players I enounter in every day random battles. (Well, inexperienced or lazy, no more incompetent/inexperienced than the majority of players of other ship classes). Also, some CVs have a harder time than others dealing with dds, while some map environments (storms for example) make it easier to get close, undetected, to enemy CVs. Obviously, CV players in competitive and ranked, tend to be more experienced. But they represent a minority of the CV playerbase. Asashio's detection radius is 2.4 km, how does it really need to be 1 km? Asashio has no AA worth speaking of (or worth using), nerfing her AA would make zero difference to her playstyle.

players really need to stop pretending CVs are impossible to sink. I have sunk my 2nd, yes my 3rd enemy CV today, with a dd. This time with my tried and trusted Asashio (2 in one battle!) what about my AA? As you can see in the screenshot, my AA was turned off (throughout the battle). The Saipan tried hard to hit me, but recent changes to rocket reticules/dispersion have hit this CV especially hard, while my 2.4 km concealment (air) ... 3 cvs sunk in one day, with a dd. Where's my special medal/achievement Weegee?!

Whatever the naysayers reply, obviously, WOWS has a major pay2progression element, to accelerate unlocks and perks (ships, items, upgrades and captain perks). Pay2progression, there is an ongoing debate about whether micro payments to facilitate progression, = pay2win. People can make their own mind up about that. In specific circumstances, there are clear and immediate advantages to those who spend some cash, certain premiums are clearly superior to their tech tree equivalents (Mass vs North Carolina at t8, z39 vs Maas at tier 7), while the domination of premium CVs during ranked t8 is without debate. But those who don't want to or can't spend money on WOWS, can unlock for free, many excellent tech tree, premiums and reward ships too, if it takes a little longer : mogami, thunderer, smaland.. or the recent dockyard rewards which gave out 1 x premium ships (Graf Spee) without any monetary contribution required. To my mind, pay2win is circumstancially problematic, (Enterprise, looking at you..) it is not true in all cases or situations.

no you don't. You can kill the enemy CV, even a unicum enemy cv, in the opening 5 minutes of a battle/ One of many losses today, I just drove my Terrible at 50 kph straight down the map edge, tucked underneath enemy cv's nose with a full torp salvo. Job done, I was quickly sunk too! My team still lost, despite the enemy no longer having a Cv of any sort at all.

well then, this might be the place to pose your questions, and to debate, CVs, specifically : https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/132108-general-cv-related-discussions/ probably the enemy team, reported you. Reporting players is a way many have to let off steam. Enemy players because you are too good, allied players because well, something in your gameplay upset them. Being reported does not hurt you, if it did you can always appeal. My advice, when driving a CV, a) try not to bring attention to yourself in chat, unless you absolutely must. b) don't expect compliments. c) stop worrying about your karma.

Russian bbs were released just after CV rework went live, and to accomodate the Russian BB gimmick (limited consumeable damage control), WG decided to nerf DOTs. That's my theory.