The_Chiv

Ahhh cliche bb complaint number 39999999 Ok lets start. Thunderer is considered to be a very over powered ship. If you have not been paying attention the coal ships tend to be a bit more beefier then even pay premium ships. Smolensk, Jean Bart, Yoshino, Georgia. These are all pretty powerful ships and they were coal ships. If you think coal ships have problematic mechanics, wait till you see steel ships like Stalingrad and the new Austin. In ww2 DDs and cruisers did shoot at battleships. In the battle of Sumar the USS Johnston and 2 other fletchers and some destroyer escort actually shelled Yamato and caused havoc on the formation buying a couple of escort carriers, time to escape. Now you are correct the shells of a DD or cl would do very little to the thick armored belt of a Battleship, and in game they dont do anything either, however the super structure, aa mounts ready use ammo storage, life rafts, fire hoses, rope, wood decks those would take damage and burn. WOWS is a Naval arcade battler. It has not basis in reality. If it did Battleships would have a 3% accuracy rather then a 30% accuracy, DDs could be spotted by a BB at about 12km, and cruisers well they would still be meh. A 381 or any shell really has something known as an arming threshold. You see a naval AP shell is a bomb wrapped in metal and shot at a target in the hope that it penetrates the armor and explodes internally where it will have a greater effect. To trigger the bomb a fuse must be triggered, THUS ARMING THRESHOLD. So if you hit a lighly armored part of the ship the game models this as not achieving the detonation of the shell inside the ship. An HE shell on the other hand is one that explodes on contact, when combined with the velocity of the shell the explosion acts as a shape charge of sorts. a single 406mm shell causing 1k is because Wargaming got tired of DD players complaining about taking full pens from a BB. A pen does 30% of the listed damage value. An overpen does 10%. This is a balancing mechanic. This is not true. Yes a DDs rate of fire and agility will make them a pain to deal with, however most DDs have no heal and around 20k life. Most bbs have 2x-5x this amount of life as well as heals. DD shells will only be effective on the deck/ super structure and a bb can angle to mitigate this damage. Also fire damage is 100% healable. A bbs HE shells on the other hand can do a decent amount depending on nation to dds. a Yamato does 2190 per shell with HE against a DD. So maybe hit 1 every now and then. So you are saying a CL should not be allowed to fight against a BB? The reason this happens is 2 fold. 1 the CL tends to only be able to hurt the superstructure and or fires. A bb has a large life pool and armor to defend itself. All a CL has is sometimes smoke or an island. Every bb shell overmatches a cl thus taking a hit tends to destroy 30-100% of its life. Thundered is a UK BB. UK BBS have insane HE shell damage and fire chances. No this game is made to make money like all games tend to be. Shells take time to go from point a to point b. A skilled player with a good build will always try to mitigate incoming damage. Slava is a RB ship, so that means that player has had to grind a lot to get that ship and most likely knows how to dodge incoming fire. Slava is a long range sniper and will tend to engage from 18km or more. Even with a 1km turning circle this is still enough space to turn to mitigate. Hallands AA is a national trait for that line, yes it is kind of BS that it can kill a whole squad of bombers but a bb with more aa guns struggles. It is not broken game logic, just your own ignorance of the mechanics, Nation traits, and the concept of balance.

Pulled out my Agir today and was reminded why I still love super cruisers. And people were super nice Check the replay if you want. 20210325_050155_PGSC519-Aegir_53_Shoreside.wowsreplay

Now I am not known for being a fan of DDs. I am a cruiser player and nothing makes my life hell more then DD's on my team not doing some pretty basic things. That said, today I logged in saw one of my directives was for citadels and torp hits and I opted to do some DD play. Im ok with the halland and can hold my own pretty nicely in the gearing and other hybrids, but one dd I tend to avoid and lament when they are on my team is the Shimakaze. Rather then continue to let this further my disdain for the ship and most torp slingers in general I decided to take it out. 2 things happened. 1 I had a great game even though we lost, 144k with 8 torp hits 3 kills including a halland dev strike, and 2. I got a taste of my own medicine. In the match I capped, I spotted I hit f3 on dds I was spotting yet I got 0 support fire from the closest cruiser a smolensk. As some one with 636 games in a smolensk this kind of annoyed me, but there was also 2 bbs in range and the dd was a french which tends to be a pain to hit, still an attempt would have been nice. So french dd runs out and I cap only to notice my rpf warning of another close by ship, it was a shimakaze. We solo take the cap land a torp on a bb move to a kill a halland, turn a conq with our torps so he eats like 4 from our halland, kill a montana and a yamato before dying to combine fire from a stalingrad and and a french dd. All in all a decent battle. Then I see chat. When I am in a cruiser I tend to be super critical of dd play. I can not shoot what I can not see, most of the time I also tend to follow our dds because I know when they do spot something being close tends to work out better for me, most of the time. So when this player in a smolensk decides to share their tactical genius I stopped to reflect on it. So I went back watched the replay, I see a few minor mistakes, like 4, but nothing overly major I was keeping ships spotted for our team to engage while doing damage, capping, and killing not only bbs, but a dd too. Then I rewatch the replay again this time detaching the camera from me and following the ever opinionated Smolensk. What do I see. Well for starters when I was hitting f3 on dds, he just looked at them. Even though they had the cover of smoke and could have done some damage they instead focused on BBS. Another instance a zao was taking fire from one of their smolensk and rather then help him even though both he and I were hitting f3 he literally just looked at it and didn't fire while running away. To be fair though there were 3 bbs that had angles on him and could have ruined his day, however about a minute later he goes full open water gun boat on a Montana. Now what is funny is I ended up killing this Montana as the Smolensk pulled behind cover only to sail into the waiting guns of a French dd. Remember when I said he didnt bother shooting at a dd I was hitting f3 on, yep that one. The french dd makes a gunner pass as he is entering into cover and the smolensk doesnt get a shot of. Rather then reaquire as they come from behind cover he turns his guns 180 degree away from the dd and then proceeds to sail away while the french dd just lays into him with a a non stop barage of fire. When he did shoot at it...well to say it was short would be an understatement and also a tad understandable as french dds are kind of annoying to hit. Especially when you do not practice or make dds a priority. He ends up complaining in chat about dds being "idiots" then proceeds to open water a Stalingrad while angling away. For those of you who do not know this Angling in a Smolensk against cruiser or bb fire is inherently a bad idea as the greater the angle the more likely you are to arm the shell and take penetrations and or citadels, you could argue that you were trying to mitigate the impacts by weaving but that is no what they were doing. Stalingrad fires 2 salvos killing the smolensk with a multi citadel on the 2nd. So he dies and continues to call out our teams dds, including me. Then it comes down to our last ship, Halland who had a pretty awesome game as they were able to secure 3 kills and have something like 1586 bxp getting first on the score board at the end of the match, and in open channel chat our Smolensk gives away the dds position. To say this was scummy is an understatement. End of the match I place second with a bxp total of 1536 to which I was ok with, but the match in general forced me into some self reflection. So what did I learn? I learned that maybe I should be less harsh about how dds perform, though I still feel the majority can put in more effort. I learned that people sharing an opinion of how some one else plays tends to be a great indicator of just how bad of a player they are. I also learned that I should have selected the mute chat option in settings.

Yeah the less you think of this as a team game and the more you think of it as a challenge to break a certain metric the better you will do. For the most part as long as I am breaking 120k getting multiple kills and getting top of the end match results I feel I did well.

my blacklist is like 400 already

LOL I loved that line of Russian dds. They are flank harassers and more gunboat then torp slinger

yeah I know but I didnt want to get gigged for shaming by posting replay, and I sorta jumped instantly after battle into replay before ss the results

The thing is we had 4 dds 1 halland, 1 daring, 1 shim, 1 Coal french dd. They had an identical make up on their team. Our teams dds took out half theirs pretty quickly and ended up getting 7 out of 9 kills. Mean while our cruisers and bbs could do very little. We spotted, we capped, we engaged other dds. What else were we to do?

It has been a cumulative sorta thing. This was not even the worst I have seen, just the straw that broke the camels back. What's worse is I looked up the guys profile. 24k matches I wont say the win rate because that would be stat shaming but this quote sums it up nicely not my position but the halland and yeah I have.

very true but what I saw of the AI was also a bit meh. Wasnt much of a challenge. Im sure later on it gets a bit more interesting with cv patrols and what not but it is more a grand strategy with a bit of boat action more then anything else.

controls were bad and the tutorial was very very very bad if I gave it like 10 more hours I might have found value in it, but doubtful also no multiplayer

tried it refunded it. very bad

yes the game is in the worst state it has ever been in. WG doesnt care nor will they do anything to fix this as they are responsible for this mess and to fix it they would have to admit they made a mistake. Short of WG being bought out and Lesta studios being sacked do not expect anything else.

screenshot is generally SS.

think they mean score card or stat card im not sure though

Shimakaze. zero focus on spotting enemy dds all focus on flanking to hunt bbs. When you get one that is willing to push a cap they never have an escape route and instantly pop smoke the moment they are spotted thus blinding their team. KM cv. These use to be great but thanks to commander rework and the massive meta swing dds are way more relevant and trying to get a KM cv to spot a dd let alone engage them is near impossible. Yoshino. Just cause you have 20km torps doesnt mean you need to use them all the time, seriously it has guns and great stealth yet all I see from people is max range torping that ends up tking their team. Thunderer/ Conq. Sitting at max range while the rest of the team is getting torn a part all so they can damage farm and act like they contributed, need I say more. Kansas. Seriously this ship was already pretty unreliable and thanks to the commander rework it is never in any position to support he team because 10% better dispersion is all these people care about.

Deadeye = dead cruisers and punishes cruisers trying to support dds pretty nasty. So cruisers are either going max range or full camp mode.

was in a game yesterday 6 bbs 5 dds 1 cruiser. I was in the cruiser. To say it was not fun would be an understatement. This however is the world WG has put forth with the commander rework. The power shift to BB and DD has made them more appealing then cruiser and thus creates a very nasty problem for the game. Though if you are looking for some thrilling blame game popcorn moments it is perfect.

I loved the Min, it is arguably the one of the few ships I can make a positive argument for having deadeye. It is a ship that in all honesty can be very annoying to learn. It is not a ship you will be firing once guns are off cool down as the long reload teaches you to pick your shots as going for the gusto is important. The largest single strike volley I have done with this ship was 62k at 18km on a Soyuz. This of course was followed by the Soyuz complaining about how broken Dead Eye was. They of course were correct but still the ship was pretty amazing for me. In comparison to the Kansas this thing was amazing. I have not taken Vermont out to play outside of co-op. Even still in co-op it was able to dev strike a cv which is always a good thing.

This is true. As long as you are good with the ship making fxp and credits should not be an issue.

I find it hard that people do not understand why they got chat banned. I just got one today for something I said the other day. It was well worth it I might add.

Erich Loewenhardt. No one like this cv anyways no big loss. Nelson. OUCH the oldest still available FXP ship in the game. t-61 a decently effective dd at t6, where there are no cvs Haida. Haters gonna hate on Haida but it can be fun. Z-39. No big loss here. Asashio. OUCH. Im not a dd fan but I can appreciate what this one does when played right. Lenin. Oh no Russian bias ship number 5 is going away. Admiral Graf Spee. I mean WG gave this thing away like 3 times so if you havent gotten it well you are not missing much.

FXP is calculated based on xp in general so the higher this amount the better. Where premiums become an issue in this is they tend to come with a decent credit xp camo but no fxp. So in theory a regular line ship with full flags and good camo could make more fxp then a premium. With that said the best ship to farm fxp on is whatever ship you play well in. No im serious. Your performance will dictate your fxp generation greater then any ship.

CV were game changers in WW2. They ended the rein of Battleships and literally made them obsolete afterwards. Reflecting that in a game like this is a bit hard. In ww2 the only defense against cv was to combat air patrols and over lapping aa fire from multiple ships. Eventually the Allies developed some new tools for AA 40mm bofors then the 76mm gun that was fitted with VT fuzes similar to that of the 5 inch shells. In game however they are not represented all that well and WG drive to make everything simplified and universal combined with their mix of historical facts and fictions creates a very difficult environment to balance properly. Now you bring up this concept of fundamental rules of the came. How often have you lost a gun to secondary fire? The sad reality of a cv is that it is the only class that suffers what amounts to a turret destroyed by automated systems. Please do not think I am sticking up for cv's personally I do not care for them but I can see their value in a team based environment. Some of my best games in CA and dd have been cv games and in many cases 2x cv games. My highest AA kill count is 64 in an Alaska against 2x midways. CV games tend to add another layer of complexity and difficulty. The real problem is many of us who played the game long enough remember when we would get a cv game 1 out of 25 games. Now it is 3 out of 4 games. Actually Devs care more about loot boxes, and special event ships. When WG does dockyard they know about 2% can not be bothered to do the whole grind but want the ship and will pay to get it done. For Hizen that was 26 steps at 1750 doubloons. That is 45500 doubloons from them about another 5% will do about half the grind and then buy the rest of it so that about 23k...ish, and 25% will grind it out and spend the least amount which comes out to 7k doubloons. During a Dockyard event Wargaming will make more of the event then a year of selling a Tirpitz and if you actually look at the cost of ships the Graff Zepplin cost more then a Tirpitz. There is a reason WG moved away from events where you grinded for a free ship to a grind and pay or pay for loot boxes. It makes them more money. People want what they want and WG is willing to fleece them for it. I can not believe I have to keep point this, NOT ALL CRUISERS ARE ISLAND CAMPERS. Some are active maneuver ships that dip in and out of combat, Some are kitting specialist able to dive in then engage as they are retreating(this actually is one of the most tactically safest styles of play. Now some cruiser can shoot over islands rather nicely, but that comes with a few caveats, one of which is the difficulty in supporting dds pushing caps while shooting over an island. You can play a cruiser in open water. You just can not blaze your guns 24/7 and you need to know how to manage your conceal and how to pay attention to multiple threats and know your escape routes before you engage. This is made even more complicated by the fact that BB shells do not lose velocity like cruiser shells do and thanks to dead eye have become a bit more deadly to cruisers. There is only one singular issue that is screwing over this games balancing and it has little to do with individual classes and more to do with the Lesta studios dropping the ball and not having a clue how to balance the game. WG has a great tool at their disposal to help bring balance, but for 3 years they have ignored the Super testers. So while you may complain about this imbalance or that imbalance it wont make a difference. Untill the whole server says enough and stops playing en mass nothing will change. And when I say en mass I mean over 50% at once.

First off let me say good on you for the effort sir. I also play dds and tend to follow a similar practice, but I am a cruiser main. So when I am pushing up to support the dd pushing a cap and the first thing they do when they spot is poo their pants and panic smoke blinding me from shooting at the dd. The thoughts I get when this happens tends to not be Forum friendly. Other times I see them spot the dd toss a some torps then run away. Look I get playing a dd can be rough. Shooting exposes you for 20 seconds, but it does that to everyone and all of them have a citadel and are easier targets. In a cv game as a dd It can be rough. For the most part it is a waiting game. Now there are some tricks I can pull to mitigate but for the most part they are one trick ponies. "On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is 0" Rockets are pretty op even with the nerfs. Though in a cv game the role of spotter goes to the cv, which brings up another issue. CV's not spotting dds. Seems they would much rather hunt bbs.. Why does that sound familiar? NO. BB aa is not why they are popular. BBs are popular because they have 2 things that are enticing to every player. The ability to do huge damage, and the ability to recover from mistakes more consistently. There will never be a no cv option as that would mean WG admitted they made a huge mistake and the cv rework is a failure. We all know that wont happen. Real naval combat logic has no place in this game. If real world logic or historical facts existed in this game BBs and cruiser would spot dds around 12km on perfect conditions and about 9km on average, BBs would have a 3% accuracy up to the IOWA where it would jump to 25%, USN and UK AA from t8 and above would have hyper accurate flak, USN Torpedo bombers from t8 and below would have a 50% dud rate, and russians would have nothing beyond t5 for cruisers and bbs and their dd lines would end at 7. Fixiing this game would require a severe overhaul of many mechanics and just trying to blame it all on CV's is a bit of confirmation bias.