WWDragon

DD are immune to citadels, guess what happens to most light cruisers? The flags make people immune but most players dont run those flags because they can be a waste outside the modes that matter the most, thus DD have a citadel except its called detonation, if you remove detonations what would happen is that DDs would survive far longer that would unbalance the game so either DD would get their citadels back that I dont think DD mains want or DD would have to start suffering more damage. Be careful with what you wish ... as it stands you can mitigate or remove detonations, removing then will have a negative effect on the game balance.

Tier. Your "two battleships" are Espana class that were armed with 10 305mm, they are close to the German Kaiser class and thats is it, entirely obsolete by 1939 and thus Tier IV. Then we have your cruisers, the Canarias class that were a modified version of the Country class so Tier VI, Navarra that were similar to the Hawkins class but being light cruisers and not heavy (also much lighter but longer) so Tier V, Blas de Lezo class that were similar to the British C class so Caledon and tier III, Almirante Cervera being designed by designed by Sir Philip Watts and based on the Emerald class so Tier V again with the remaining on the list being a armored cruiser from 1898 and the other a trainer for seaplanes from 1900. Destroyers is always a mess to try to tier, their most modern ones were Churruca class destroyer based on the British Admiralty type flotilla leader that isnt in the game but we can guess the tier looking at her armament, 2x3 533mm and 5×120 mm guns that at best is no higher that Tier VI and more in Tier IV and V. So if the Dutch tree have "fantasy ships" then a Spanish tree would be as filled with fantasy ships if not with more, for cruisers you can fill until tier VI with Tier VI being a switch from light to heavy cruisers but then what? WG would have to pick up designs from Ansaldo that they cant because they already used then for the Italian line.

Fuel doesnt explode, it burns ... the reason why fuel vapors are a problem is that its air being ignited. Also do be familiarized with ordnance, "bombs" are not meant to just explode and they have safeties so the only way a bomb can explode is ibeing cooked off and goes off by having being armed, proper safety means the bomb detonator is only assembled into the bomb after being loaded into the plane, same with torpedoes were they are only armed after they are loaded. But I see the problem ... you dont understand what caused ship magazine detonations as you think its the shell but no, its the powder bags that are also located in the magazine that because they are explosives to propel the shell and when they ignite the whole section cannot contain the blast and neither can the ship really, cook-off takes a much longer period and accidents have happend, including the one that I mentioned. So, let me put this way, we have the case of USS Forestal fire, let me just go over it ... ammunition that exploded (not all did), seven or eight 1,000-pound bombs, one 750-pound bomb, one 500-pound bomb and several missile and rocket warheads and there is more, the explosions tore seven holes in the flight deck and 150,000 liters of burning aviation fuel into the aft hangar bay and berthing compartments yet the ship didnt explode like Taiho? Why then? maybe because AS I SAID the cause of the explosion was someone filled the entire ship fuel vapors that detonated by what? a sparkle ... engine room, kitchen, electricity ... who knows, simply that was BOTH a incredible negligence and stupidity to fill the entire ship with fuel vapors as in USS Forestal case the fire was contained. Also: Notice how 68 and 257 is the storage for the 5' inch ammo and prepare room and 75 is the powder room of that ammunition, 59 as the ordnance store, 228 bomb vane stowage (that means the bomb fuses), there is stowage all over ... Were is magazine storage then? if CV have to detonate then secondaries and AA ammunition storage also should case a detonation, do you want for me to point out that would make about every ship in the game a powered keg, heck just aim at the deck of a DD (you know, the class for balans lost their citadel ... CV have one BTW) and boom, it should go off. I kinda got pissed about this and gone to a lot more effort that I should had but honestly, you are applying your "hollywood" logic because you really want CVs to detonate and they dont because they lack a magazine, they were large ships yes but they didnt had much of storage space and the weapons that planes carried was outside weird accidents was entirely safe, the bombs would only go off after they were ARMED, same with torpedoes that should never be armed until after they were loaded into the planes. As I think about it, Kaga sunk because she was hit by, and I quote wikipedia here ... Yet she didnt explode like a fireball, she was scuttled by two torpedoes from Hagikaze and sank stern-first so ... if Kaga that suffered ALL you stated DIDNT DETONATE! then why should CVs detonate? Because if there was a CV that should had detonated by a magazine explosion was Kaga yet she was scuttled.

No carrier detonated, they dont have a magazine storage for that. Taiho explosion was cause by her chief damage control deciding to switch the ventilation system to full capacity leading to the leaking aviation gasoline that was turning into fumes to spread across the ship and eventually igniting, Lexington suffered a similar problem but not as catastrophic and she was actually scuttled by one of her escorts. In fact many if not most carrier losses in WWII were from being torpedoed by submarines. If you want "historical" Japanese damage control then you might as well remove damage control from the entire IJN line because it was really that bad, they actually had the equipment but this is a case of both poorly training as well poor leadership that failed to properly use what they had available, for example they had TERRIBLE ASW but their equipment was actually brand new, designed properly but failed due to not only lack of training but IJN leadership ignoring it because "muh decide battle", honestly I think Japan biggest enemy in WWII was Japan military itself considering the amount of downright STUPID decisions they made. Also if you want to see what happens when people do incredible unsafe and dumb things, you have the 1967 USS Forrestal fire were bombs that were on the flight deck cooked off and detonated, as I said ... no carrier had a magazine detonation.

No, she doesnt it ... no CV have torpedo launchers.

My first Kraken ...

Well they could but it would be very weird considering they couldnt not really put those on cruisers and battleships and a whole line of then would simply not work considering those start at Tier VII and post war designs mostly did away with armor since chances of gunnery engagements were almost nil, they still have a gun but pretty much just one gun and not of a high caliber and thats the ones that did build cruisers and destroyers as cruisers were pretty much abandoned as there was no longer a need of such large ships and followed up were destroyers as frigates were cheaper, having missile frigates in the game would be really weird even if that somewhat happened in reality with Mysore being decommissioned in '85 and De Zeven Provinciën/Almirante Grau in '17. It just would not work.

They dont.

No, the reason they had 283mm SK C/34 was because that was no other higher caliber barrels available at the time as well it was designed to counter the new Dunkerque class, the 380mm SK C/34 wasnt available yet. They were also meant to rearm with the 380mm guns, that didnt happened but it was intended, as designed they did their job as were entirely capable of countering the Dunkerque that also had lead to the Italians developing the Littorio as a response to the new French battleships that in turn lead to the French develop the Richelieu that in turn lead to the Bismarck. The Dunkerque were battleships as the French certainly had battlecruiser designs, in fact they were the first battleships they build after the 1912 Bretagne class (and her sole member) and the Panzerschiffe were just heavy cruisers build around what Germany was allowed to build within Treaty of Versailles limitations and they were within the treaty limits as it only limited tonnage and not gun caliber, if anything we have to see what they navies classified then as such and both France and Germany had battlecruiser designs, they could have named then as such but chosen not to. The argument about battlecruisers often looks like someone applying what their idea of what a battlecruiser is instead of looking at what ships were classified as such by their own navies, I am not even talking about the Soviet Navy that gets creative with classification names of certain ships due to the Montreux Convention (because the apparently they left out Carriers on the definition of capital ships) but nations that had either build battlecruisers or planned to build them, arguing that the Germans were wrong to classify the Scharnhorst as battleship is rather on the absurd.

Are you sure? What you think Republique is? Or for that matter Colbert that was Commissioned in 5th May 1959 and Vampire II that was commissioned in 23 June 1959. Alexander Nevsky is based on Project 84 that puts her in 1958, Riga and Petropavlovsk are a Project 82 variants and Project 82 is Stalingrad and Dmitri Donskoi is Project 65, 1946. The most recent is Project 84 but its not hard to understand why it got cancelled, it was a anti-aircraft cruiser with just guns, SAM were in development (entered service around that time) so it was a obsolete design, similar to why the Sverdlov end up being cancelled in the middle of production with the attempt at installing a SAM battery being a failure. All guns cruisers projects still existed after WWII, missiles changed things.

Thats not Hakuryuu ... This is Hakuryuu!

Even if you are being funny, wikipedia does lists Komsomolets as K-278 (that sunk after a fire, dont make jokes about this because 42 people died on her, Jives Turkey did a video about it), a class of Torpedo Boats during WWII and the T-20 armored tractor also from WWII period. Looking for R-47 missile boat I cannot really find anything, looking for Tarantul-class corvette I found there are more that a few around, including one in the US in that is currently a museum in battleship cove, that being USNS Hiddensee formally Rudolf Egelhofer from the Volksmarine that was transferred to the German Navy after the reunification and brought after decommissioned that is pretty much the only one that could somehow be called a "legend".

That is true, after all the difference of a Heavy and Light cruiser was their guns. the Atlanta class belt armor ranged from 28–95mm and in the game is ranges from 13-89mm, deck armor was 32mm as in the game is ... 13mm. This game is about as much historical as Sengoku Rance is a historical game.

Classification was never by armor and by that I mean by Washington Treaty classification since it was the only accepted one by most navies. Battleship limits were at most 35,000 tones and no more that 406mm caliber, all other warships were limited10,000 tons and no more that 203mm caliber and carriers were limited to 27,000 tones, no more that 10 heavy guns with a limit of 203mm caliber. So whatever belt armor it had was irrelevant if build something over 10,000 tons it stop being a cruiser even if you just put 203mm guns on it, besides I was talking about B-40 that was a British design and thus was called a battlecruiser because as I already pointed out the ONLY factor for the Royal Navy was speed, the Kongo as build had a maximum speed of 27.5 so they were battlecruisers no matter their armor thickness, the Derfflinger had a belt armor of 300mm and the Queen Elizabeth belt armor was 330mm so why one is a Battlecruiser and the other a Battleship? Because one had a maximum speed of 24 knots and the other 26.5 knots and before you being up caliber. the Germans even knew 305mm wasnt enough and considered redesigning the last 2 Derfflinger with 350mm guns with the Mackensen having such guns and the follow up Ersatz Yorck class having 380mm guns, Kaiserliche battleships and battlecruisers were simply "underarmed" considering the Konig also had 305mm guns and Bayern 380mm. In the end, if we follow the Royal Navy anything over 24 knots is a battlecruiser, not armor ... 620mm guns, 100mm belt armor and 23 knots? thats a battleship. 305mm guns, 400mm belt armor and 26 knots? thats a battlecruiser.

Hood was under construction and was armored up to battleship specs, it was more armored that the Queen Elizabeth class. Also the Admiral Class was revised during that time, they were eventually dropped since they couldnt incorporate the lessons learned during the war, they skipped to the G3 that was cancelled due to the Washington Naval Treaty, I am not sure what would had happened if they were actually build as the two Nelson were designed and ordered because of their ageing battleship fleet, likely Renown and Hood would been scrapped, Rodney cancelled or scrapped (depending on how far she was in construction, also I mean the Admiral Class) with Anson and Howe being the ones in service as they incorporated design changes that Hood had not. The Kongo that is in the game is the rebuild version, its not a battlecruiser, the old Stock Hull A was apparently. Myogi is based on the Project B-40 that was one of the three rejected designs by George Thurston presented to the Japanese admiralty, the Kongo is design 472/B-46. I dont get this conversation, the IJN "inherited" battlecruisers because they were British Imports as the Royal Navy at that time often described any battleship with a maximum speed over 24 knots as a battlecruiser, if we go with the Royal Navy then ... how many battleships in the game arent battlecruisers? The Royal Navy called the Scharnhorst sisters battlecruisers yet they were the first class of German ships to be officially classified by the Kriegsmarine as Schlachtschiff (battleship) so are the Germans that designed the ship wrong? And since I am at it lets talk about the Amagi since the only differences between them and the Tosa battleships were 25 mm less side armour and a .25 knots increase in speed and since the the Amagi and Tosa were part of the Eight-Eight Plan, the second attempt at that plan was to add 4 Kii fast battleships to augment the (would be existing) 4 Amagi and 4 Number 13-class (those were never named) battleships to further add to the confusion or to show the Japanese had dropped the whole "battlecruiser" naming as there was practically no difference with battleships at that point.

Frigates dont work because they were even less armed that destroyers, they are common today because of missiles. Then lets compare it with Sims, tonnage of Sims is 1,570/2,293 ton tons as Oslo is 1,473/1,773 so its actually lighter that a Destroyer (granted Sims was design without the treaty limitations) and the same with the size at 106.15m vs 96.6 m so Oslo is smaller, speed is even worst with Oslo going just 25 knots that makes her very slow. And missiles is something WG apparently have tested and decided against, sure it would balance a missile frigate but it would also had to be incredible powerful to work. In the end frigates are either too small and limited to work in the game as it is, after all historically the name was readopted for anti-submarine escort vessels that a were larger than a corvette but smaller than a destroyer by the Royal Navy as the US called those Destroyer Escorts, they also became common when the all-gun concept was dropped ... there is really no way to put then in the game without designing a whole new class and modify the MM to accept then and load then with gimmicks such as permanent radar and hydro as a purely support ships.

Playing STO I rather not because anyone that plays knows the visual clutter that creates to the point you cannot even see your own ship under it. WOWS is not as bad but still I dont see the need for some skills to have a "visual indicator" because they are conditional, if you spot a ship then if the skill condition was remain unspotted then there is no point to that, also you need a visual indicator for what? Dazzle is not something you can counter and are you not firing on the ship because of dazzle? Of course you are because you can still HIT it, the extra dispersion doesnt change that. What matters is if you are being detected by planes, radar or hydo and a icon works for that, I dont want for hydro to show the circle for the detected ship so it knows how far it can run as well know the exact location were the ship with hydro is, showing duration of time spotted is one thing but beyond the icon with the duration? no. In fact I can understand WG not wanting to implement such visual queues if all they do is give the enemy information they should not have.

Because they dont play CVs, FDR shortcommings also pretty much require a specific commander instead of a generalist CV one. You should know by now that there is often no critical thinking around here, FDR also gets to be called OP because someone decided to leave themselves open and get farmed, they give so crap to CVs I am not even surprised outside divisions in Random CV players dont even bother with providing air cover because they get blamed anyway for any real or imaginary faults including playing the class, this vitrol been diluted in certain circles to the point no matter what CVs will be called "the cancer that is killing the game". The "fake hype" come from the usual suspect, actual CV mains caught up fairly soon the main problems with it with WG not going to buff it because then you would have the same exact people throwing a fit, unless they do global changes that radically change how CV squadrons work then its not going to happen.

Stealth fire is still removed, detection when firing weapons is based on the gun maximum range and lasts for 20 seconds ... they can only "disappear" if they break line of sight (AKA, go behind cover). There is nothing "unfairly" if they are using a island for cover because you cannot hit then anyway unless the USN have some matter phasing shells that phase inside objects I wasnt aware, if anything the "gun bloom" is the unrealistic but its there because stealth firing became a problem.

Its not, thats the joke and why it doesnt work. It Doesnt Work All you can do is scare people for a while before they realize the low range, low damage and long time to arrive makes it something they can ignore, its only useful if there is a parked cruiser next to a island you want to dislodge and thats assuming that the cruiser will actually move. I know how it works, I saw it already and it doesnt negate what I said. Haarlem at least is not paying for having it, it just a supercruiser with good armor (for a cruiser) that in exchange for that gets crappy guns. No it wont, it will put it at the same speed as Mogami. Simply +8% speed is far too low when the base speed is just 32 knots, she is one of the slowest Tier VIII cruisers and she was given the same speed booster of non-French DDs. Too little to be of actual use and with that armor its going to be like trying to hit Mogami except with less overpens due to a armor scheme that is only good against DD caliber guns. Hindenburg hydro is one of the strongest in the game, that allows her to hunt down destroyers. De Zeven cannot see destroyers and her gun caliber is too low to actually fight other cruisers, there is no ammo gimmick to offset that either ... no 1/4 HE Pen, no RN cruiser AP ... the zombie heal is also gone so she will often trade unfavored despite the heal because of gun caliber or more guns, such as Chapayev that have a extra barrel in each turret. Hindenburg can hunt destroyers besides filling other roles, only lacking in AA protection as De Zeven lacks the utility to do anything else besides taking a slot in the team, too limited to just HE from a island, the air strike is her thing and as a gimmick its pretty situational and underwhelming. The role of a cruiser depends on the cruiser we talking about. No, cruiser role is to support other ships ... fire support is just one but lets take Chapayev again ... Radar so its a counter against DDs, also hydro/defensive fire. Relegating cruisers to "just DPS" its a pretty bad idea, Alaska is considered borderline OP not just because her guns, strong AA, superheavy AP and armor but because that is on top of radar and hydro giving her a very strong toolset to deal to most problems. I compared air strike because its the same tier, they are different and pointed out that De Zeven have longer range with a shorter recharge as Haarlem is barely able to stealth air strike and have a normal recharge. Then I pointed out the Heavy Cruiser that is supposedly meant to attack other cruisers have more utility that the Light Cruiser that lacks a toolset to deal with then. I will say it again, De Zeven is missing a consumable ... as a light cruiser she have one less that other light cruisers and none of her consumables are enhanced to offset it, her air strike is not a enhanced version because she is lacking torpedoes to begin, the choice of speed booster is questionable at best and the ship will underperform compared with other light cruisers because she bring less of a toolkit into battle that they do.

Odin is a wierd ship as statswise she looks bad, even playing you start noticing problems because the secondaries have bad angles and low rate of fire but ends up performing much better that expected. On Brandenburg case she might have better speed and better secondary layout but the problem is that secondaries are bad and 150mm secondaries have too low rate of fire to have a effect, the ship is rather questionable, if they improved the sigma to 1.8 then maybe as otherwise it doesnt look good, not as nimble as Odin either.

We have kiting cruisers and they all have utility, fighting at maximum weapon range is not what I call a enjoyable experience. Also air strikes are not utility, it have just a 13km maximum range (it was even worst, 10km meaning close or within detection range) and as much I can see air striking from stealth it still have a 11.9 km base concealment and honestly what I have seen in videos showing it I am far from impressed ... small area, long time and low damage ... heck I can have the same experience by taking a RN CV out for a spin but more damning is Haarlem gets it as well with far better utility, the speed booster on De Zeven might as well not be there and in the end I have to ask what is the role of this ship and I havent found a answer, it doesnt matter if you can kite because soviet cruisers have to do it too except they have terrible maneuverability, IJN ships also have to do it yet they have torpedoes and more utility along good concealment ... what is the point of this ship when I can just use others? Lets also look at Eendracht since its also a light cruiser similarly armed just a tier lower ... hydro and spotter/fighter, De Zeven gets speed booster but its only +8% (34.5) were Eendracht speed is 33 knots, De Zeven is only faster with the speed booster but Eendracht will outrun her without it, guns wise they are about the same with De Zeven having longer range and 1.5 second faster reload with Eendracht being able to extend the range with the spotter. So in the end, De Zeven is more or less a progression of Eendracht ... except loses hydro and spotter for a speed booster and heal with the only difference is that "stealth" Air Strike and speaking of such, from Eendracht to Haarlem Air Strike gains the following ... 2km extra range, 1 extra available flight, 2 extra planes per flight and a increase on aircraft HP but I wouldnt bring this up if not for De Zeven bizaro Air Strike and that is 3 available flights vs 2 of Haarlem, 6 planes per flight vs 10 of Haarlem, lower hp per plane that Haarlem (1560 vs 2020) with a better recharge time of just 65 seconds vs 100 of Haarlem so ... better that Haarlem? questionable considering how much it pays for that 65 second and how Air strikes seem to be rather weak to begin. If the ship is entirely balans about that Air strike its a very BAD idea since they did the same with Duke of York having Hydro, the heal is also the standard Dutch Cruiser heal since Haarlem have the exact same one, even if one is a light and the other heavy/super this cannot be a mark for De Zeven, UK CLs also get a heal and utility, something that De Zeven lacks.

She doesnt have hydro, thats the problem I have ... lack of utility as the specialized repair party allowed the ship to have a zombie heal and offset the lack of hydro/radar/defensive fire. Also I am weary of overall complex armor schemes that dont have much of a threshold since all it does is making sure the shell is slowed down and arms instead of overpen, I dont think it can stop anything over 200mm that is pretty much the baseline on her tier.

Its a exact copy because they decided to instead of moving Friesland to the new Dutch line to keep it there and just remove Friesland from sales replacing it with Groningen that is a exact copy since it was a Friesland class destroyer. If you want to keep it, then you can ... if you want a Tier IX Dutch Premium then simply exchange it for Groningen and if you wanted a 21 points Dutch Commander at the line launch, you werent going to get it by farming XP in Friesland and then have the commander moved along with the ship.

Problem is this is swedish and the de Havilland Vampire was used by then as J 28, now they did operate the SAAB 17 that was a dive bomber and the SAAB 21 that was a fighter/attack aircraft. I mean sure, they could have SAAB 21 since they even adapted it to use a jet engine (Saab 21R), it had a belly weapon bay but it was limited to a single 250kg or 500kg bomb but there are other problems, this is a rather small ship with just 8,000 tonnes and only carrying 20 planes and to compare, the Saipan were 14,700 tonnes with over 50 planes and Ryujo 8,000 tonnes with 48 planes (dont ask how they managed to fit then in there, they just did) so at best we looking at a T6 and it would require either Soviet CV mechanics due to the small air group or some rather high tier (as tier 8-10) aircraft to simply be playable.