Dutchy_2019

And that is FAR from WG scamming the population, since complete game-wide changes in mechanics buff or nerf all kinds of ships. Think of the introduction of smoke firing bloom mechanics, eliminating stealth firing from smoke - a general change in game mechanics that definitely hurt some premiums. Then there is the general power creep. A number of the once completely broken ships (Belfast, Kutuzov, Krohnstad) are now much less of a problem because of general power creep and/or global changes in game mechanics. Though based on some of the other posts in this thread, Hizen was NEVER designed to be run with DeadEye, and in effect the Captain Skills Rework was an initial buff to Hizen (DeadEye introduced), which was undone with the removal of Dead Eye.

Some speculation involved, but basically based on how the test system works as communicated by some CCs: WG comes up with the concept for a ship and designs it, tests it internally and sends it out to testers, often with stats set to an extreme end of the spectrum (whether making the ship extremely week or completely broken op). WG looks at how these ships perform for a tester compared to how testers perform in other similar class ships (so say, for Hizen, it would probably have been compared to other T9 BBs and Japanese high tier BBs). If testers consistently do better (damage / XP wise) in comparison to other similar ships (like - say they average 100k damage where they normally would average about 70k), then the ship is overperforming, and is nerfed. If testers underperform, the ship is buffed. Ship is released - and if for some reason the overall numbers by the player base are completely out of line with how these players do on average, they ship might be nerfed or buffed again. Result (also because of the concepts): - Ships that for people with the right style of play work really well and for those that do not are plain bad, or are simply meeeh Also for those who figured they would get a Massa let alone a Musashi, JB or Lenin-type premium from the dockyard, tbh I think you are naïve - as the rewards in monetary value often are the equivalent of (at least) the premium of the tier you are getting. WG (frankly NO company) would pretty much give an above average (let alone a near OP) premium ship away for free (only playing the game).

I have not played her in Randoms (yet), but I know of other players who like her in Randoms and do well in her. I do like her in Co-op do.

Yup - And when Hosho got nerfed, the seal clubbers left en masse; the number of Hosho's in game (double Hosho was a regular occurrence pre-nerf) was decimated, even the number of double CV games went down (still too high IMHO).

Fully agreed If you have the right ships, and some luck in matchmaking (meaning no or few other human players) you can rack up massive damage numbers in Co-op. Then 200k+ damage and even 300k+ damage games are possible - and as a result 1k base XP games are very rare but feasible. With a good number of high tier ships 100k+ damage games can become quite normal, actually. If you have a faster ship, Co-op CAN be used to learn how to angle against incoming fire, dodge torps, and in general getting a feel for how your ship handles. I think to some extent it has helped me surviving in Randoms, particularly in cruisers, by better being able to dodge shells, or at least manoeuvre in such a way as to have the shells catch the armour belt rather than the citadel. It can also help you get used to the ballistics of guns, and on occasion to quick aiming / awkward shots (snap shots). I think that has definitely helped me in Randoms as well. For me, Co-op is indeed a (quick) way to farm damage or ribbons for missions, but to me it is also a way to unwind 'brainlessly' without being a detriment to my team, like I would be in Randoms.

Play it at near Max range (so yeah, my first upgrade will be max-range). Look for all kinds of cover Kite! Keep your head on a swivel, and look at the mini-map. Forced practice at using free look. Try and look at what enemy ships that can hurt you are aiming/firing at. Sometimes only fire AFTER the BB has fired Play VERY cautious early on, until you have a good idea where enemy ships actually are (mini-map). Approach it as 'Just Dodge' practice using WASD hacks. Accept that on occasion you will get blapped. Accept that you can rarely use all of your guns at the same time. Think where you will go. plan (or execute) your turns BEFORE shooting. Often I am trying to limit my firing early in the game, unless I am aware of where the BBs are AND there is a juicy target (like a DD or cruiser I can smack). At least on some of them I use (or have used) incoming fire alert (either as my 1st point or 11th point captain skill) - and I have made sure I have AT LEAST a 10 pt captain on them from the very start (for CE) Play a few games in them, and when I am not having fun in them, play other ships. And yes, I used streamers (ship requests on stream) to see how they played their ships - especially these ships. And at least for me, it helped. - Ahskance (NA CC, seems to be a technically very sound player, specializes in CVs, but I have seen him do very 'technical' talk throughs through Aoba games while trying to go for Top 10 leaderboard damage records). - Foamingjetty (NA, teacher by trade, likes to talk through his game as you request it) - MiniHannibal (NA) - StatsBloke, depending on stream (currently not so many ship requests as chat screwed him over and made him reset 18 lines and he wants to regrind them before Christmas) - Wookie_Legend usually does ship requests. - Lord_Zath (NA - does replay review, though usually later at night on Sundays; feedback is direct, and he has others in stream-chat, including top level KOTS players. Those can and do also give feedback, which can be blunt, but as long as you show a willingness to learn (ask questions) they will give you useful feedback. And they do not seem to make a distinction between unicum players or new and inexperienced players). Others I have just watched and observed, sometimes done ship requests, how they play, good and not so good players, the likes of Diurach, Killerbin, Painezor, TigersDen, even tcfreer (who statswise IS an average player, but who still knows the game, and usually knows where he went wrong), Keviseeb (who regularly divs with a SCCC Super Unicum, which can be helpful to watch) . This has helped me drag up my WinRate (from 42% to just above 50%), drag up my PR from deep red to almost green, and such - and you can pretty much see the break/jump from when I started using these resources in my stats. I am now working my starting at Nürnberg - and yes, I have been blapped early in games - but so do very good players do on occasion. Trying to implement these lessons for some well known 'easy to blap ships' I have been able to get to the following (on EU): Königsberg - 24 games: 46k av damage (well above server average), record 106k Aoba - 25 games, 40k damage (well above server average), record 85k Myoko - 40 games, 43k av damage (server average), record 115k Mogami - 21 games, 46k av damage (server average), record 107k (and that was in facing T10, with Shimakaze, FdG and Yoshino on my flank at the start), for much of the time facing the latter two on my own. Ended IIRC in a 2400 base XP game, over 700 XP clear of the nr 2 on the team). If regularly still get smacked hard early in games, so be it. I would say that you as a more experienced and better player than I am should be able to get a handle on these ships as well, at least to the point where they are less frustrating to you. And worst case scenario - just accept that these ships do not fit your play style: grind the line once, and then play them sparingly (as needed).

By and far the most problematic downtiered ship vs high tiered ship: surface ship (low tier) vs CV (high tier). Sure, playing -2/+2 mm is a serious challenge, but it is quite feasible. However, it will take you being willing to (a) adapt various styles of play, (b) LEARN the game, and (c) to try and learn from your mistakes. And you know - you can do those things when playing every class against every ship class even when in -2/+2 matchmaking, with a single exception: facing submarines. I am NOT a good player - as my stats will show - and I know that there is a good chance I will get dumpstered by higher tier ships. For me the challenge is to play around it. And you know what? It feels very rewarding - even in a game you lose - when in the end in a Kiev (near stock) you get compliments from the enemy Missouri and Alaska for harassing and farming them for 80k, tons of potential damage, and also capping a cap under the nose of a Tallin. Same with Mogami - sometimes it works, and you dev strike a Minekaze, farm down a Yoshino, half an FDG, kill a low health Gearing and farm the CV for a bit) and sometimes you get blapped almost instantly, because you miscalculated whether a Bourgogne could shoot over an island. I know it will be hard, I know mistakes get punished hard. Dealing with -2/+2 MM and having fun in it has as much to do with attitude (from the start of the game) as with what actually happens in game. And BTW, a T4 Myogi can pretty much as easily one-salvo a T5 Montecucculi or Emerald as a Sinop can.

Sorry, yeah, got that mixed up. I meant the Soviet Moscow counter-offensive in early 1941. Still was a miracle in many ways that that sector of the front for the Germans did not completely collapse.

BTW, Why there are no Greek ships in the game might be caused by WG not getting access to the Greek archives - considering how problematic many Greek government institutions are to providing access to non Greeks to their historical material (thinking about archaeology, for one).

Yay - long live propaganda from both sides (assuming some of the quotes (especially attributed to Hitler) are actually accurate. The bolded case is a CLEAR example of propaganda twisting facts. The Greeks did not defeat the Germans (which Roosevelt's quote refers to), but the Italians. Where I btw would argue that the British at around the same time as the Greeks hammered the Italians quite a bit harder in the North African desert. When the Germans came in, Greek defense collapsed quickly. Based on various records and newer research, the delay caused by the diversion of German forces to Greece causing them to get bogged down in the Russian winter (and thus saving the Soviet Union) is in many ways a fallacy. Even if the Germans had not invaded Greece, it is very unlikely that the Germans could / would have won, or gotten much further than they did now in 1940. - The strategic importance of Moscow (and the impact the fall of Moscow would have had) is probably far less than generally assumed. Yes, it would be a massive propaganda coup, but would it have decided the war in Germany's favour? Unlikely - as it would have required the Germans to pocket another massive haul of Soviet POW's, which was unlikely to happen. - By the time the Germans were in a position to assault Leningrad or Moscow, they had pretty much run out of tanks fit for combat, broken down through wear and tear, and all kinds of supply issues. Their forces were MASSIVELY overextended, and running out of all kinds of needed supplies to sustain an offensive. - The build up of the German forces for the pushes on Moscow and Leningrad would probably have taken so long that the Germans would have seen these pushes literally bogged down in the Russian mud before a decisive victory could be achieved. Note that the mud freezing over made the final push on Moscow possible. - Even if the Germans had been able to push further, there is a very good chance that they would have overextended their forces to the point of them actually collapsing in some sectors during the Soviet Winter Offensive, which was sure to come. In hindsight it is already almost a miracle the German forces of Army Group Center did not break during the Operation Mars counter offensive, considering the horrendous state they were in.

Last week I had a 1000 Base XP Co-op game in Missouri - made possible by me being the only non-bot on a BB heavy team (and the enemy bot BB's being stupid even by Bot Standards) Then today, the first four games in Randoms of the day were crap - I did not play good, but some of the players on the team were unbelievably bad, making things even worse. Then I had this Minsk game in - just tried to make the best of it. Hard work - 3 solo caps, had to travel over 95 km across the map to get it done, and got a slightly dirty Kraken (which I only noticed when I looked at the final results screen).

If you are willing to play Randoms, one should be able to get a long way towards grinding for the GK and Khabarovsk. IMHO announcing it three months in advance should give many if not most players the chance to grind for these two - either by grinding the lines directly, or grinding the required Free XP (using ranked, randoms, Clan Battles and Ops). Edit: Personally, I will probably grind both lines, then reset them just before the switch.

Yes / no about karma being relevant. Simply put, if you put up a 2500+ base XP game, carrying your team to a win, you should not end up with -2 karma. Frankly put, people who report players in those instances are pathetic.

Those will probably come. But the past 2 years might have made access to archives somewhat difficult, making it slightly more difficult to get those lines started.

Massive difference in playing Randoms DD vs Co-op DD, whatever line you play. in Co-op, I tend to play my DDs very aggressively, all lines. Basically move up at an angle, to make sure that if/when you smoke, other ships will spot the enemy. Then target the bot DD first (only use torps when there is no other option or you have a quick reload), the rush the bot ships. In randoms, playing super aggressive gets you killed quick. As for what lines to pick, hard to say, as much depends on play style. I would say, try as many as you can up to T5. Though most logical for Co-op would be gun boat DDs. For randoms, try out lines, and see what suits you best. Some say pick UK DDs, mostly because you get many get-out-of-jail smokes, meaning you might not get killed immediately if you make a mistake. Go IJN Shimakaze line if you want to learn how to torp and use concealment. French and Pan EU DDs can be fun but are a challenge, as you have no smoke, and so-so concealment for almost all of the ships.

Actually - by virtue of the completely broken and completely bonkers 'torpedos stop homing at distance x' mechanics, BB's have BY FAR the best chance of evading torps, as in their approach to the BB they actually stop homing. In DDs and against cruisers they do NOT. Also, with DD depth charges being completely anemic for most DDs - yes, BB ASW is actually the best ASW weaponry out there. This does not even mention the problem that as DDs have basically NO Health Pool to work with, but are massively outspotted by submarines, the DD might well have been murdered by enemy cruiser fire before it comes close to depth charging the sub. O yeah, and of course been forced to use DCP, as a cruiser HE salvo normally breaks everything useful on a DD.

Dead tired, but trying to get a few games in for Personal Missions, and Mogami grind. Just trying to play.... and this was the result: Shima decided to camp in his private torpedo magnet. Didn't realize I farmed the Yoshino for that much, spent most of my time trying to dodge his shells and those of the FdG. The Graf Z was farming at the end.

Did NOT bid for Schliefen 100k Coal - went in for 100 million, did NOT get it Captain - went in for 51 million, DID get it Did NOT bid for the flags

I do not share his conclusion.... As soon as the game introduces a class that in a Div is game-breaking, you have a problem. Three things I do NOT see addressed in OP: - DCP is already overburdened in the current meta as is. And in Cruiser and DD you basically have NO chance against Double Pinged homing torps without DCP. Made worse in that for most ships DCP Cool Down is as long or substantially longer than it takes for a sub to reload. - Spotting by subs. If the sub is backed up by a capable cruiser or BB player that sub becomes basically untouchable. The DD will be dead before he can eliminate the sub. Add to that the fact that most Depth Charges are absolutely anemic (and you need multiple runs to kill that sub) and the problem is obvious. O yeah, and the only effective ASW (the BB ASW) is too far back to be effective. - The overall effect on game play - making it even more passive.

It seems that with this patch, the Dockyard has been broken. When I get a Dockyard token, and go to the Dockyard screen (in my case to claim the 250 steel) there is NO POSSIBILITY to return to port. The only way to leave the Dockyard screen is to close the game using Task Manager. There is also NO 'Esc' button in the right hand corner you can click to leave the screen (as is normally the case). I know I am not the only one, as TigersDen (streamer and CC) had the same thing happening to him on stream today.

We all know that Hindy should have just dodged - and not try to do any damage to the enemy team for the final minute of his miserable existence.

Because Subs are completely WRECKING game play - they are either useless, or completely game breaking like the old RTS CV if the enemy is any good. They promote a play style that is even more passive. And if you have a sub player like Bear Necessities, actually going near caps is even more suicidal.

Yup - seen the same. And those streamers are people who have (a) better stats than Trench4nt and (b) were like 'wait and see what subs actually do in the game'. All three of them were like: "this is absolutely stupid." Including one of them first playing subs (when he already figured they were stupid (and boring), but after a few games playing against them was about to absolutely rage quit. To make subs appealing to the masses, the devs have decided (or felt the need) to introduce a number of completely broken mechanics into the game that favour subs. And their response to criticism suggests two things (or a combo of a few): they are well aware of how broken these mechanics are, but feel they cannot eliminate those, since that would make them too unpopular, or they are so divorced from the game and gameplay that they actually believe they are doing the right thing. BTW, the statistics they use (as well as their interpretation of them) as shown in the DevBlog in response to some of the criticism can also legitimately be questioned. Will I keep playing the game? Probably. Do the submarines in their current form take away some of the enjoyment in the game I have? Definitely.

DEV BLOG: Double Ping, and for a DD it is 200m or 120 m (double ping). Less than a second to react. Yup, works well. So yeah, you can do the most stupid manoevres when spotted by the sub to dodge his homing torps, and while you are busy doing that, you get shot at (and possibly sunk) by enemy ships you have to show broadside when dodging said torps. Also DCP IS already overpressured with the fire spam meta. So your choice: DCP double ping, and get firespammed to death. NOT DCP ping, and eat citadels. The only thing this accomplishes is FAR more passive play. Against good submarine players (especially when backed up by semi-decent players in fire ships) there is no counter, other than to run away. And bad sub players are useless against the team. Result: BBs (and other ships) play so far back that ASW counterplay is impossible. DDs have to suicide in to depth charge them, only to get crap at by the rest of the team, and when sitting still on top of the DD (if they do not, depth charges are NOT capable of killing a DD at all). Cruisers: mix of BB and DD issue. So what is left? Extremely passive play (rest is suicide), and the reintroduction of a skill gap similar to what existed in RTS CVs. Which is and was universally deemed to be a very bad thing.

Sorry, Just had a game in Salem (Co-op). The homing torpedos HAVE to go: The claim that torpedoes will not curve within x-kilometers from the ship (allowing ships to dodge) CLEARLY does not work (they continue curving to the very end), and the 'get rid of PING' by using DCP is completely stupid, considering the cooldowns involved (and ubiquitous FireSpamming Meta). I can tell you right now that of subs are dumped into the game like this, this will most likely lead to a whole lot of abuse of sub-players by frustrated non-surface ship players.