Dutchy_2019

The thing is, submarines with the game mechanics they have implemented are just absolutely STUPID, and should NEVER have been implemented in the first place. The problems with them are so absolutely idiotic that the Devs should have thought about them beforehand. Note BTW: Homing torpedo's: Already after various tests on PTS, Devs concluded that the homing torpedo mechanic was ABSOLUTELY BROKEN and should be thrown out. What did they do? Bring it back! DOUBLE PING IS GUARANTEED CITADEL: This is worse than the idea of one-shot full health cruisers by BB, which is HEAVILY RNG dependent, and actually requires skill by the BB (and could be avoided by the cruiser as well). DCP to mitigate double ping: Incredible stupidity - most DCP cooldowns are longer than submarine torp reloads; which means that the second double PING is a GUARANTEED hit with citadels. ABSURD torpedo speed: meaning that reaction time between seeing the torpedos and doing what you need to do is somewhere between LESS than a second, and a few seconds. Good luck with that (especially in a sluggish BB). Concealment of submarines: Impossible to detect if played barely competent. With almost useless ASW weapons, that often are blind fired. Especially in combination with the stupid speed of submarines.

What about this experience: Gneisenau - Two sub torpedo salvos, dead; NEVER seen the submarine, second salvo was double ping which I could do NOTHING about, because DCP, used to eliminate double ping on first salvo, WAS NOT YET OF COOLDOWN! F****ing 10 torps in my ship. I HAD GREAT FUN!!!! O yeah, first salvo, I could only use DCP when I saw the torps, which meant I could NOT avoid them catching my bow. The ONLY way I could have avoided is was by staying at the H-line. The PING homing torp mechanic with use of DCP is ABSOLUTELY STUPID. Especially since most DCP Cooldown is LONGER than submarine torpedo reload!

Substantially more in CV, actually. Though your assumption itself is actually not wrong.

That is another problem on occasion - the purple players being targeted immediately by the enemy team at all cost. Personally I am not a fan of tools like MatchMakingMonitor - would love to see it and similar mods banned. Also, I have seen it happening in an unbalanced map (based on comments in chat) where the team that according to MMM considered the game already won, became overconfident, and lost.

I think things are fare more complicated than you think they are. If the good players are mostly in the DDs, odds are the extreme team will win. If the DDs are the bad players, that team will almost certainly lose - for instance.

Same for me - better in some ships, worse in others. The issue with divisions is that there is the opportunity that they have communication, which often is a serious force multiplier - and would be a serious advantage over 3 loose players that might be better. I fully agree with you that having a bad division on your team is usually worse than having three average players in their stead.

I would like to modify that statement: BLINDLY trying to cap immediately gets you killed. At some point you usually have to cap or contest caps, or your team will lose on points (if the enemy team has a few functioning brain cells). What has helped me: - At the game start look at the enemy team list, and look at what ships they have. - Learn concealment of your DD and of enemy DDs (some mods provide that info in game). - Learn what ships have radar - and next step would be to learn radar range, duration, and radar cool downs. - Learn what ships have hydro, and their hydro ranges. - Look at the mini-map and look at what positions of enemy ships are revealed (especially enemy DDs and radar ships) - Unless it is a completely free cap (usually that only occurs mid- or late game) NEVER rush into a cap nose-in. - Depending on the situation, either enter the cap stern-first, or in a turn in such a way that you effectively end up with your stern pointing towards the enemy or your bow towards island cover. - If there is potential island cover near the edge of the cap, use that! - NEVER sit broadside to the enemy. - Try to avoid obvious capping spots / entries points into caps since you can expect enemy torpedoes to come your way in that direction, and on occasion also blind shots. - If you are in trouble: LEAVE - If there is no serious team back-up: FLIGHT over FIGHT - Going dark is your biggest asset, so be careful with the use of your guns (but use them when warranted, even with the IJN Torpedo DDs!). And accept that on occasion you simply have bad luck (like in a Kagero running into a Asashio, Akizuki, Friesland wolf-pack). Using these rules I think my DD play has improved, but I have also regularly capped (most fun taking a cap in a Minsk under the nose of a Tallin).

Two elements: - Just your reaction is already part of the loss; you expect to lose, therefore often you are already at a disadvantage mentally (which often turns into playing worse than you normally would). - In practicality this means that quite a few players cannot div up with each others, as their (combined) WinRate would be such that they would face consistently long queue times before they have a game if they are matched up against equal level divs (by WinRate); mind you, the Median WinRate is something like 48% - so if you are a 50% player, you are among the 50% best players on EU statistically.

Except that when it is not 3 vs 3 but 12 vs 12, things become a whole lot more complicated. Queue times would be much longer.

Funny - it is you who started with the "We can all agree that..." blanket statement (implying you are speaking for everyone else), NOT anybody else. Also the sheer arrogance of YOU telling people to spell things correctly when you ought to realize that the vast majority of people on these forums is NOT a native English speaker (and based on your semi-applicable post / quote of Irish consumer law in a different thread, I assume you are a native English speaker). It also is VERY telling you are seemingly not aware of the 'Git Gud' - meme well established within the WG community, which is based on a response by WG to complaints by the vast majority of the active WG community (forums, Reddit, etc) concerning clear issues with game mechanics (say for instance the old CV vs DD interaction post Rework). His comment could well refer to that meme. Back to the +2/-2 MM issue: For queue waiting times +2/-2 MM is better In many ships it is quite doable, but a challenge. So part of mitigating the problems when being bottom tier in +2 MM is practice and adapting your playstyle. Just accept that you might not be able to pull off as easily what you normally do. When facing +2 MM you are actually rewarded by extra XP (and credits and such) when doing damage to higher tier subs. Some of the issues mentioned - like getting chunked by SAP shells are the result of two things: There in general is a jump in power of the ships from T8 to T9 General power creep SAP chunking can and will happen in just about every tier. That is the problem of SAP at ALL tiers.

A lot of decent veteran players run into problems with 'overload in stuff to do' - even while spending quite a bit of time in the game. Even quite a few players who spend a lot of time in the game (like streamers) run into problems, at least those who are not super unicum level players.

Not sure how it works on other version. I know 100 is the max on PC. I am not even sure how the game would deal with auto-opening these 6500 crates. I would think it would make the game freeze by itself.

I would think norm is everywhere: "could reasonably expected to know", not 'HAD'. If it was 'HAD' there is no way you could ever punish people for buying stolen goods since them simply saying 'I did not know it was a bogus offer' would be enough to let them get away with it, or go after people swindling unsuspecting sellers out of extremely valuable art work simply by claiming 'they did not know it was a Rembrandt' or claming 'I did not know they did not know they were selling a Rembrandt', 'and that every action they took in the process that happened was mere chance. Edit in bold

In this case the loss was so enormous that just letting it go would cause serious problems. It was not the 10% off turned into a 12,5% off (the store would have lost that case), it was something like 80% off on brand new expensive (a just released) product. And in fact the store survived this mess (the customers refusing to co-operate caught most of the flack).

I do not know what the exact options were. I just remember some of the problems that were run into, either because of bona fide actions by the player, but also bad faith behaviour from some elements in the player base.

There are two issues: All sales need to be rolled back. This takes time. Last year, with the Christmas Crate mess, there were quite a few players who wanted a refund for the crates, accepted a roll back, but only were willing to return the goods that the crates had dropped. This gave a number of problems: Some had already used the consumables in game. and had none left to actually take back (or they quickly used them up after requesting the roll back - say they got 25 dragon flags (started with 0 before they got the crates), but by the time they requested (or WGCS got around to rolling back their account they had used up all of them), and received the benefits associated with them. Some used coal dropped from these crates to buy coal-ships in the armory (say they had 178k coal, the Christmas boxes got them the additional 50k coal they needed to get Pommern - so they got Pommern) , but refused to give them up (have them returned to the armory), where the roll back would mean they were back to their original 178k coal (and not enough coal to get Pommern). Allegedly there were people who even pulled the stunt of - AFTER THE FIRST ROLL BACK WAS ANNOUNCED - request a roll back, buy a new set of crates, did not like what they got, requested a roll back, bought a new set, did not like the result, requested a roll back, and so on. Also, if indeed the 6750 crates thing is true, than that would completely braek the game economy. Because even at horrendous drop rates, it would mean you would have pretty much EVERY ship in the game (apart from maybe ships that could not be bought from the recourses dropped by the crates), and all kinds of other stuff. So freezing those accounts would already be the only option simply if you want to NOT completely wreck the game economy.

Yup - and that is why deliberately providing false information can be punished. On the other hand, if it is blatantly obvious the seller made a mistake in pricing, and the buyer was aware (or could reasonably be aware of this), the seller has the right to reverse the sale. This is established (example is for instance art, with art dealers swindling sellers obviously ignorant of the fact that they possess a major work of art from the likes of Rembrandt on the cheap), or buying stolen goods (e.g. if you are offered a bike for 50 euro's that is obviously a much more expensive bike (say a 1000 euro bike), and it turns out it is stolen, you can be forced to (a) give it back to the original owner, and (b) even be held criminally liable for buying stolen good. Again, legal precedent. At the same time - mistakes CAN, DO, and WILL happen! So in the case of an obvious clear and unintentional mistake like WG - and even a brain dead individual should realize this was one, only people intent on pulling a scam would deny that - the seller has the right to correct the mistake, with a few conditions: (a) the consumer gets a full refund upon return or the opportunity to keep the article for the originally intended price (so if the sale was supposed to be 9,75% off rather than 97,5% off, the buyer has the choice to pay the difference between what he paid and the original sale price (the 9,75% off price)). (b) the seller upon discovery of the mistakes immediately takes action to correct the mistake (stops the sale) and within a reasonable time limit (not sure what exactly) notifies buyers of the issue and offers them the choice mentioned under (a). (c) all costs resulting from dealing with this mistake (like banking fees, shipping/handling, transport costs and loss of value of the product) are for the seller. (d) if the objects in question are damaged or no longer sellable because of fair use (say for hygienic reasons) customers still have a right to return the product and get a refund (so for instance scratches or normal-use stains can not be a reason for the seller to refuse to take back the product and refund). The furniture store case over here was decided IN COURT in favour of the store based on the above arguments, and might actually have referenced other cases (electronics among them) from elsewhere in the EU. The store won (something that was implied if not outright stated in my first post). Basically the court said that the people contesting were clearly and obviously abusing consumer law.

That is normal practice in the whole of the gaming industry, and in variants in fact in many industries - again - with legal precedent. Mind you, smoke firing change was for the health of the game (since the original turned out to be game breaking).

Except they can - IN THE EU. I f-ing live there, the court case was IN MY COUNTRY WHICH IS PART OF THE EU. The condition for it to be done is that the buyer can reasonably expected that something is wrong when something is offered for a completely absurd price. Same way that you are criminally liable for buying stolen goods of you buy an object for an absurdly low price and where you can reasonably KNOW that that product would normally NOT be sold for that price. AGAIN - LEGAL precedent for that. IN AN EU COUNTRY.

Ahum 10 Crates for 6750 doubloons Or handing out 6570 crates for 10 doubloons - and let that stand? Because that apparently is what actually happened - and the Reddit title is incorrect (where has that happened before)? WG is NOT an [edited]about it, assuming the people bought it get their money back, AND WG resolves things quickly.

Except courts have already decided that the seller can (within a reasonable time limit) in the case of the bolded. And as far as non-physical stuff (digital stuff) my guess is you are also wrong about the issue of keeping stuff and refunding - with legal precedent already set.

My original point clearly flew over your head: In this case WG most likely HAS the legal right to reverse the sale, no matter what the buyer says or does. To make the process technically as quick and easy as possible, an account freeze is the best solution. If they do not, we all know the gigantic mess the roll backs were last year (where people wanted to keep whatever they had earned from the benefits they had received from the thing they wanted to roll back - aka: the crates they wanted rolled back had dropped coal, which allowed them to buy a coal ship - which they wanted to keep (aka they wanted to keep the coal), but also wanted a refund on the crate). As for that furniture store: they themselves could not. What they could do: - Send notice to the buyer that something had gone wrong, and offer two options: return the furniture (seller would pick it up, free of charge) and have the money returned, or pay the difference between what they already paid and what the sale price was supposed to be, and keep the furniture. - If the buyer refused, they could be taken to court and court, which (worst case scenario) could indeed result in either bank accounts being frozen and/or the furniture being seized.

True, but I would this attitude is to the longer term detriment of the game for numerous reasons: Players burn out Production schedule is such that I would not be surprised if the quality of the released product (new ship lines, new ships in general, new game modes) suffers, simply because devs an programmers are burned out Slowing down things would allow devs to focus on other issues in the game, that can now NOT be addressed. Slowing down things might free up devs to work on modes or game elements that the community has asked for (operations, new maps, and such). 'Slower' periods might offer (incentivise) newer players to actually improve their game play; you have now time to focus on improving elements of your play, something that conflicts with 'just getting your missions done'. I think this might long term be beneficial in both player retention, and drawing in new players - and thus better for the game.

And not that much later they announced that the skills update would NOT be happening in 09.11 - therefore Hizen was NOT tested and balanced with the Skills Rework in mind. Could also not be done, as it could well be that not even all the skills had been fleshed out at the time of Hizen being released.

If you see something that is advertised for sale (or has a price tag) for a clearly absurdly low price because of an honest mistake - and a customer could reasonably be aware that this is a mistake - the seller could well be in his rights to reverse the sale. Think of something like a Ferrari that normally costs about 250.000 euro's, yet in the dealership it is accidentally priced at 25.000 euros brand new, the dealer is allowed to reverse the sale upon discovery (within a certain time of the event happening). I know the issue came up in a case with a furniture store over here not too long ago, where this happened.