arttuperkunas

Any excuse to misrepresent an argument to defend his broken toys.

He is a troubled soul

Best of luck to you in finding enjoyment in the game. From your posts, it might just be that the game you want isn’t this game, at least at t8+. At high tier everything is ridiculously powerful and very fragile, which has led to long range, passive/defensive meta. And that is unfortunately the “smart” way to play those matches, at least until mid game when opportunities to push start opening up.

They haven’t been free before either, for example with rental ships or super bbs, so I guess it makes sense. It’s clear they have a different design philosophy for the sub skills/modules; all the bonuses are either situational or offset by negatives. I find that to be a good approach tbh, though it’s a problem that the rest of the ships in the game don’t work like that. Perhaps this is a foretaste of cap skills 3.0.

Luckily the modules and sub cap skills are fairly useless with a few exceptions.

Yes, poor Bear with his plebeian 76% sustained winrate, really showing us how the unicums are going the way of the dodo.

That is not a bad result, I can see you are also embracing the opportunity to provide new, diverse and different experiences for your fellow players just as I am. Especially at t6, you sealclubbing rascal.

The main threat for a sub is getting spotted close to 2-3 bbs that can dogpile you with asw airstrikes. I speak with confidence, as - I don’t like to brag - but I have a much better winrate than you in subs (100 percent). In fact, I think I might just be turning into a suckmarine main.

why do you even play this game? Im not being snarky, just wondering if you’ve yet realized what game you’re playing. The way the ships/maps in this game work, defence is usually easier than offense. Games are lost usually due to needless pushing/yoloing more than passive play.

What’s obscene is that you literally just picked up the class. Even though you are a very skilled player, imagine getting anything done in a whole new class with under 100 battles, nvm a 76% winrate. Now imagine if @Bear__Necessitiesfound the intestinal fortitude to really git gud at this class over thousands of games.

I gave in to my curiosity, and tried subs in randoms (one game in T6 US sub, one game in T6 German subs). Both games I won, and more or less carried. I've also played Subs in other tiers in co-op to some degree. My experiences: -At least on a basic level, these boats are very easy to play. I had zero PVP experience with this iteration of subs, but was able to play effectively at least at T6; basic game skills/DD experience seems to help -Dive capacity is low, and it drains away staggeringly fast when in the thick of it (this is better on German sub due to the battery consumable). Subs excel when staying at mid to long range, and get progressively weaker and more vulnerable the closer the enemies are -CVs are surprisingly powerful against subs; not due to direct damage, but spotting. They force you to dive, limiting your spotting and expending battery capacity -If you play intelligently near your team, you can act as a force multiplier; they protect you from getting pushed, and you basically kill or at least force damcon on anything that gets close -They are situationally broken/stupidly strong. They essentially completely negate smoke cruiser/DD play. It is trivial to blind ping cruisers or DDs in smoke; if they don't leave their smoke, they die. -They are overall probably the best area denial/defensive ships in the game. As long as they have spotting, they can basically lock down a cap/chokepoint even more effectively than a smolensk - as they have the same or at least similar power to punish people pushing into them, but they cannot be smoke fired or otherwise punished in the same way My takeaway: 1. People do not know how to play against subs yet - this makes them artificially strong in the short term 2. Subs are fundamentally not ready for randoms - they are really brokenly OP in defensive contexts, and particularly the DD/sub and cruiser/sub interaction needs to be reworked 3. Subs are going to blow up the established meta unless something changes. Subs are simply too good at defending key areas, and pushing into them is suicide (if they are properly supported)

I am giving feedback not as an IJN torp line expert, but as someone who also grinded up this line recently. Kagero: A good and underrated boat. The only problem with the Kagero is that the premium variants (Asashio, Harekaze) are basically just better. They keep the best in tier concealment, while adding superior torps (Asashio) / superior guns (Harekaze). Yugumo: A great boat, currently my favourite T9 DD. 12 km vs 10 km torps is a huge upgrade, and the guns are also more usable than on the Kagero. While T9 has some very tough competition (boats like Neustrashimy, Benham and Black spring to mind), Yugumo is very good at least in randoms. Shimakaze: A good boat, but imo suffers due to the extremely powerful DDs you have at T10. It's not bad, but I get the impression that it's been powercrept quite a bit by more recent releases. Unsurprisingly, Ragnar/Småland crap all over it.

I've been trying to persuade some of my clan mates to give 2 sub + cv a shot. In for a penny, in for a pound.

In most games (particularly ranked) that I've seen with subs, you either have to play around the sub (like a CV), pushing areas of the map that are not sub-infested, or you have to take the sub out. And for that, by far the best asset is a friendly sub. This is part of the dynamic that I don't like. The moment you lose your own sub, you are hideously vulnerable to the enemy sub, because nothing comes close to the sub's ability to spot enemy subs at any depth, without seriously risking its hull like DDs have to do. The take home lesson is that if you want to win, you should support your sub, and hope that he/she has more than two braincells to rub together. For the sub, the lesson is that you should stay close to your team, protecting them from enemy subs while letting your team protect you from pushing dds/other threats. Furthermore, you can multiply the damage of the whole force by forcing cooldown (triggering HE permafires) with pings, and by wrecking targets with homing torps without fear of reprisal.

The key in dealing with subs is not damaging them directly, but spotting them. This: a. limits their freedom of operation, i.e. their unhindered ability to wreck your team b. makes them vulnerable due to battery drain c. makes them visible for ASW strikes and other damage That is why CVs are powerful, due to their unrivalled spotting ability. They either spot the subs (if they misplay), or force them to stay submerged, which will seriously inconvenience the sub and its ability to carry.

Something has been bothering me for a while about the WG responses to the sub furore. They keep talking about new, interesting, diverse etc. interactions and mechanics. I haven't been able to articulate why this bothers me. Until now. Imagine that you have a game in which there are two goals, and two teams that try to get the ball in the goal. The players have different roles, that complement each other, and are intended to counter various roles on the other team. This is like the WOWS that we once had. Then imagine that there's a player, let's call him BillyBob, who doesn't enjoy that kind of gameplay. The only thing BillyBob enjoys is going out on the pitch, and kicking other players between the legs. That's his thing. He won't play the game unless that is accepted in the rules. Now here's the thing. This is a "new and diverse interaction". This is a player that wouldn't play the gameplay otherwise. Nevertheless, that is not a good reason to add such an "interaction", or to cater to such a player in your game. "New" and "diverse" does not mean "good", or "fun. BillyBob's new and diverse interactions make the game actively unfun for everyone else, and sooner or later, he's going to be out on the field alone. Is this really what you want, WG?

A nonzero number of submarines have been sunk due to incorrect operation of the toilet/heads.

You do know you can go blind if you play with that thing all the time.

While what you're saying is probably true, I suspect that adding content, whatever content, at a rapid pace makes sense from the point of view of quarterly earnings. The damage you do to the health of the game in the long term is insidious, and more likely to manifest in the long term (and to be difficult to connect to any individual action/inaction from the POV of the available data). So from a cynical, sales spreadsheet perspective, this behaviour from Wargaming probably seems rational (from their perspective).

Even though such players are semi useless, I would rather take them over the yolo German BB or cruiser players who drive into/near a cap at the beginning of the match. Because they are not semi, but completely useless. At least the campers exert a tiny bit of map control by threatening an area of the map with their guns, and don't give points to the enemy by dying. You can think of them as a fleet in being :P. High Seas Fleet simulator 2021.

Insert typical "just dodge" explanation: Obviously you did something wrong. You should have (insert demand for super-unicum level play from target of sub). Obviously subs are balanced, because you could have counterplayed by playing perfectly on an inhuman level while all it takes for the sub is to slam his forehead repeatedly into the "1" and "2" keys.

Yeah, I remember reading that article, and thinking "so much of this suddenly makes sense".

I suspect it's more just part of their obsession with churning out new content. They believe they have a winning formula for a F2P game - just keep adding new content, and people will keep paying. The quality of the content appears to be a secondary concern. It's cynical, but to a degree it probably works.

Chkalov + massa + cleve worked pretty well. And by "work" I mean stomped the living daylights out of everything. In general, Chkalov + anything is gonna be strong.

Sie or hir, thank you. I prefer non-binary gender pronouns to reduce possible micro-aggressions to any persons who might be reading this and getting triggered.