FerrowTheFox

Well, I haven't touched WoWS in ages, but I really had to come back one last time to say farewell to you fine lads and gentlemen. Really sad to see the forums go, but I can't say I'm shocked by WG's decisions anymore. We've known they don't care since before the CV rework and there have been so many hair-raising decisions since. It's practically what I've come to expect from this particular company. That being said, I've always enjoyed my time here. Reading what other, far better players than me have to say and learning from their experiences. Discussing CVs for hundreds of pages and years after years with the thread always running in circles. Nerding out about historical ships and theorycrafting new lines. And while yes, there was the occasional drama and salt, all in all I think I've rarely seen a more refined discussion tone. So thanks to all of you forumites, but a few notable folks in particular: @CptBarney For the always nice and funny discussions and being a fellow degenerate. @Verblonde @Ze_Reckless @LOZFFVII For the sound advice when I was new and countless well-written, valuable posts over the years. @DFens_666 @Bear__Necessities @Capra76 For always being a level-headed part of any good discussion and giving valuable insight. @El2aZeR For being the legend and haunting the CV thread with your knowledge. @Sunleader For the longest and most detailed replies I've ever seen in any forum, but somehow I always ended up reading them @Leo_Apollo11 For all the interesting polls and info posts While I am using discord, I probably won't join the official server since DC just isn't a great place for discussion. Though, if anyone of you wishes to contact me to talk or play something together, my DC handle is the same as my forum name. Gentlemen, it's been an honor and a pleasure. Fair winds and following seas! Farewell

Easy! I've done that months ago. You see there's this secret unicum tactic of the "uninstall" button. But do not merely click that button. BECOME that button.

As I usually mained IJN DDS, back when I actively played WoWS, I accompanied my engagements with japanese soundtracks. My two go-to suggestions would be: Zipang soundtrack, especially "Mirai's battle Theme". I love the mournful saxophone paired with the urgent, determined arrangement. Perfect for those close engagements where you hold a cap singlehandedly against several enemies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp--bc90kFE Okami soundtrack, especially "The Sun Rises". I mean with a title like that it's guarateed the flag of the rising sun is caught high in the wind and the chrysanthemum seal at the bow shines, ready to defend the home islands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya3yxTbkh5s

Already stopped spending with the CV rework (granted I only bought two weeb DDs, so wasn't much anyway) and stopped playing with no intention of ever giving WG a single cent shortly after. The only way I'd ever be tempted to reconsider that decision would be if WG reverted around two years worth of decisions...but we all know what the chances for that happening are.

I stopped playing after it became clear that WG would never really work out and balance the god awful CV reeeework. None of my friends wanted to play the game anymore because of it anyway. And seeing all the shite that's come to pass the last few months alone and the state the game is in now, I think we made the right call. Still, I come here every now and then to laugh at the stupidity WG continues to spew out and also because I actually like many of the regular names here and appreciate what they write. Many of them are still the same people who gave me tips back in the day. Also regarding "War on the Sea" - As a fan of RTS, I think it's a great game, albeit with many teething issues. It's still being developed and the devs are constantly making tweaks and additions based on the community feedback. Like working on the (still stupid) AI or QOL UI changes etc. I'd keep an eye on it even if it's not your cuppa currently.

Well that's what happens after you subject the populace to huge dehumanization campaigns, propaganda and add the pressure and dangers of war. Just as with all participants in the great wars. At university I took a course where we specifically looked at war atrocities and the effects of propaganda and group mentality with examples from all factions. It's always the same: the enemy is made to be seen as sub-human and anyone who shows mercy may be called out as a traitor. Couple it with most foot soldiers being uneducated people who are put in situations nobody should be subected to and you get a scenario ripe for the most atrocious acts. In case of the IJA two additional factors were the aforementioned mentality of "death before surrender" and the fact that the army leaders were the most pro-war faction in imperial japan. No surprise there since the rise of militarism had previously gotten japan though economic rough seas and riled up the population. So they were seen as a "winning team" getting Japan their "rightful place" as rulers of Asia. As a side note: Interestingly the most well-behaved bunch (throughout all participants) were usually the navies and where applicaple air corps. The Imperial Japanese Navy had a track record of trying their best to persuade the emperor to seek diplomatic solutions and avoid fighting to the extend the IJA had them called out as cowards publicly and there were attempts at a coup to bring the navy "traitors" back in line. Admiral Yamamoto was placed on sea-duty because the top brass feared for his life after he had angered nationalist and army hardliners by not wanting to go to war with the US. Captain Tameichi hara (whose book I can only warmheartedly recommend) even wrote to the emperor himself to end the war and seek peace negotioations. No surprise since many of the officers and navy brass (such as Yamamoto) went to university abroad e.g. in the US or UK. Also as customary in most naval units there's the motto of "fight the ship, not the crew". As soon as a ship is rendered defunct as a fighting unit, most sailors tend to help their fellow saltfaces. (Took that as another special course at uni: Naval warefare and tactics throughout history )

It's always puzzling to me how often I've seen the old "go and play the class / ship and come back to this discussion" statement said to one of the best CV players out there...

Once again, it's so nice to see there's still people out there who call out the insanity and stupidity of cancel culture and the perpetually offended. I'm really tired of these people telling others what they can and can not say and getting corpos to enforce their 1984 fantasies. As usual I'll quote: Offense is taken, not given. I've had leukemia when I was a child. Chemotherapy and the whole shebang. Never would I take offense because someone said "cancer". Also, all the best and much love to you and your daughter! (And ofc sorry for off topic ^^)

Ok, I`ll grant you that, potatos are gonna potate. Then let me ammend: I don`t do both things. So my criticism of CV-DD interaction stems not from being THAT noobish, although I still do potate a lot. Yes I understand what you mean, but my point still stands: The CV holds all the cards and the only thing you can do is try to last longer. And I question the "intervene" part, as AA is after all automatic and I`ve been blown up while under cover of cruiser AA, because guaranteed drop and AA not being an obstacle to good CV skippers. Also, what's keeping him from killing my cover first and then coming for me, especially late game when AA mounts have gotten reduced? What you`re describing though is forcing DDs to play a VERY certain way. Use consumables or die. Stick close to allies or risk doom. And as I said THAT is what I lament. It takes a lot of possible playstyles out of the equation. Sometimes I need to go off alone. E.g. the enemy misplayed and left their base open. Without a CV I will try to cap, forcing them to react. With CV I'm dead if I try that. Or maybe I just need to spot for the BBs back to take out a target I can't take on alone. I can sit far up front and provide vision. With a CV in game, the target will notice he's spotted, call in air cav and I'm gone. So back to the blob meta. And hoping to rely on a team that mostly keeps back for any kind of push is always wishful thinking and once again negates a DDs speed and stealth. At the same time, the CV doesn't have to rely on his teammates. He spots for himself and has tools for everything! As you said: You`ll be back looking for the DD later. Doesn't matter if the DD survives the first minutes and then does what it does. As soon as it caps, torps or is in any way useful, you`ll be back, because the DD will be dangerous. And you`ll once again dictate the engagement and ruin whatever the DD was doing just by being there. The CV has tools specifically to dispatch DDs AND failing that can just let others do it by spotting. And that is the problem. All other classes have chances to play around their counters and chose whether to go into an engagement that's potentially not favourable to them. A DD can play around a (radar)CA - stay out of range, don't get caught, bait radar, use islands. A CA can play around BBs - stay out of range, don`t broadside, angle, use islands. A BB can play around a DD - stay out of range, WASD, anticipate or bait torps, use islands. But all of them can`t get away from the reach of the CV. Stay out of range doesn't work. Island cover doesn't work. BBs and some cruisers have heal, AA and a lot of HP (cruisers are still shafted). But a DD relies on it`s concealment and evasiveness instead of HP. A CV counters both by being the fastest responder and the ultimate spotter. I know, I was an IJN DD main before being fed up with this game. So I usually don't go blundering into caps first thing but try and stay on the flanks, spotting for the cruisers and BBs using the very good concealment and try to build up torp crossfires. Then snatching a cap when it`s safe. But in all of that I can decide what to do. So e.g. against a DD that outguns me I can use my concealment. I can play to my strengths. Against a CV, he always dictates the engagement. And I can't put into words how often any sensible play can just be countered by a CV spotting and harrassing. Again, you said it: Any sign of danger and a competent CV will come looking. And then it's just trying to delay the inevitable.

Any dd skipper worth their salt already knows to disable AA. But, as El2 has already pointed out it doesn't alter the fact that dictating the terms of engagement still falls solely in the hands of the CV. And as you said yourself it only diminishes the damage you receive in the end. You can't prevent the CV from engaging you, you can only make it harder for him in the hopes he'll choose another target. He still CAN just chip away at you if he desires. Turning away from incoming planes is of course also a no brainer. However it's often easier said than done when they go so absurdly fast and get a free "dd in the vicinity" icon, so they can start circling in the area to find you. As for staying close to allies for AA, I'll ask for the hundredth time: Why play a DD then? If a DD needs to stay that close to the fleet so AA bubbles overlap, he is useless as a spotter or flanker. He's also more likely to be found by planes, even accidentally. So there goes any chance of a good torp run. The enemy is either already angled towards the allies you're sticking to or expecting torps because planes spotted you. Sticking close to allies also negates the DDs speed to quickly relocate, if he needs to go with the slower ships for protection. Capping is always dangerous as you broadcast your location and any moderately good CV will take a look at that turning cap. So, what's left to do? Blob up and pew? A cruiser has better DPS and AA for that. Now, I'm not saying DDs should lone wolf down the border spamming long range torps, but just being a few km away from allies shouldn't be a gamble, it is literally what DDs usually do as first ships on the frontline. And imo smoking up for planes IS wasting a charge compared to the alternatives. E.g. that charge could've been used to smoke up an ally who needs to disengage. But now many DDs will be less inclined to give out smokes. The charge could also have been used to break line of sight after finding yourself in a pinch. So you need to play even more conservative because you need the smokes for when planes come. So it leads to more campy, less team inclined gameplay all for a few seconds of trecherous safety. Because when you've used it, the planes will be back in no time to get you when your smoke is now on cooldown. Exactly. I've had CVs focus on me the entire match. His aim wasn't really good so he didn't hit me, but he kept coming and coming and coming, wasting both our times. It could be a nice sentiment to think I kept him occupied, but it's just not fun, just a frustrating experience and in the end you're not rewarded for it. How is that fair that someone who can't hit anything gets to, just by his mere presence, ruin the game of the other player, while the dd has to be on top of his game at all times to stand a chance to survive and get some results?

And this is exactly why I and most of my friends have pretty much quit the game (we all took a break. it's now an extended break that keeps extending...). We just can't be a**ed to play as it's gotten frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I chose the dd life because it's challenging. I love high risk high reward glass cannons and I love supporting my team with vision and screening. Those games where you run the knife's edge, spot targets for the big guns further back, speed boost where you're needed, help a CA disengage with smoke and knife fight for a cap. The good adrenaline rush. But how often do you get that now? The list of things you have to do and keep in mind to stand a chance to survive keeps growing and your main asset, concealment, gets countered left and right. I sometimes get the feeling WG is out to ruin concealment and don't understand or care there's a whole class that relies on it for survival. One or two radar cruisers can be dealt with and actually add to tactical gameplay for both the cruiser and the dd (positioning, baiting, keeping track of cooldown), but too many and it devolves into a campfest with perma radar on every cap. And I think we don't need to talk about the CV reeework, the perma-spotting potential even a potato CV skipper has and how it ruins strategic gameplay. There's threads upon threads and even the top competitive clans seem to care. Of course it is still possible to play dd and you indeed can still be effective. But theres very little fun in it. You have to play so careful, conservative and often passive just to survive. And then your torps are still visible form the moon, your attack plans get thwarted by an accidental flyover from speeding planes and if you're up against a moderately competent CV, good luck capping. I'm not a "I play for fun, so I yolo around" kinda player, I want to play for the win and the team. I want to learn and get better. But at the end of the day it is still a game and I want to at least have fun and feel I've done my best, even if I end up losing. At least at the moment, and in my personal opinion, I feel like there's not that much fun involved playing dd.

Yes! I can't even say how much I'm looking forward to ISSS. I started playing AL right after it ran for the first time on EN and have been waiting ever since for a rerun. Nagato is not only one of the most viable BBs, but I absolutely adore her design and character. I'll definitely put a ring on her :D Also, as a Sakura Empire affectionado and collector, there are some more gaps in my collection I need to fill. Been sitting on a lot of cubes as well, so here's hoping RNGsus is kind...

I've taken part in several early access and closed beta tests of games and yes, having invested players test stuff for you can be a gift for the devs. They can get feedback from a different perspective and a fresh pair of eyes. However there's one prerequisite for that: Actually listening to your players and being prepared to completely redo stuff if certain mechanics prove to be poorly received. That's why -at least in my experience- this sort of testing is mostly befitting for small indy games where the devs can have direct interaction with the players and game development is to some extent driven by passion and not the marketing department. Larger companies tend to be hugely disconnected from their players and go for what makes shareholders happy, not the customers. And no testing is worth s**t if the feedback is ignored or development decisions based on spreadsheets and statistics after all... So, since it's WG we're talking about here...

And the DD skips know how much fun that has been, so I'm for once pretty sympathetic towards the BB captains. They'll be even less inclined to support a push with us DDs and I don't blame them. Even worse this issue is not limited to BBs, every class will feel less happy to push a flank or position for a crossfire, it's the CV effect all over again. Pair that with additional work for the DDs who already have their hands full with everything else and the stupid spotting potential subs have even while being hunted. But hey, we've been warning about that since the announcement of subs...

So let me get this straight...You don't actually like playing the core classes (for 10k battles!) of the game that are balanced against each other and demand other players (who like to play these core classes) need to learn to adapt to stuff you'd like to see in the game but that also completely throws what balance the game has out the window? Because it's not just about "I don't like new stuff" as I've tried to point out. New stuff is often good, but if it completely changes the game for the worse it may not be worth it. And pointing that out is not whining. Now I'm far from a good DD player, but what us "DD whiners" criticize is for example the complete denial of concealment play by CVs. It destroys one of the core aspects of this class, which has the lowest HP in exchange for best concealment. It means DDs can't do their jobs as effectively and have to play passive as hell. Other classes like CAs and BBs mourn the denial of effective flanking and cross-firing positons because the CV can spot and strike with impunity anyone who dares wander outside a blob. So it's not that we "hate on CVs" just for the fun of it, we question the implementation when they change the meta for the worse! And subs at the moment promise to do the same. They ruin concealment play, punish flanking and thus may very well lead to an even more passive and cautious meta!