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The problem is that CVs, besides dealing as much damage as the best of them, also seem to be "responsible"or key element for most of the damage that is dealt by the rest.

Yes, and it is usually not the CV that kills the DD. Same in other cases. And that is what is wrong - CV should spot more for themselves and less for others. IMO everything that is spotted by the CV, should only be visible for "those at risk", not "those that can reach it". AKA if the CV spots a DD (with 15km range) then the spotting should be 15km wide (like "gun bloom"). A BB or cruiser that has 18km (or more) shooting range should not be able to see that DD, only minimap. So if you want to shoot that DD, you can be shot by that DD in return. But we all know, WeeGee will not do it.

This in itself is a crappy mechanic. Subs run out faster of dive-time when they are spotted. So, to dive longer they have to dive deep where nobody can do F-all, including the subs themselves. A case of less risk, but "reward". It should be that they use "divetime" lots faster when they are deep (and unspotted). It is a similar idea to the "dead eye"- not spotted (no risk) = better reward.

True, but it is also a fact that clanmates that actually play that, are saying it is a campfest. At such a campfest only the CV will spot anything. Everyone else that spots a ship, it will probably be the ship that kills him. Also - that graph is beside the point. It doesn't matter who does the spotting "as such". It is more important to know who get spotted by who. It is not surprising that the CV does most of the spotting, and if most of that spotting is a BB at 15km, well hell. Yeah for sure the CV will spot a BB if that is the target he is on his way to, same as when CV is after a cruiser. But it does show what is wrong (as many that play CV have said many times): spotting by CV needs to be fixed. That spotting damage is done by the team, as a result of the CV spotting for them all.

Well that happend today. Me and my divvy were faildivving or T4 DD/BB with a T5 DD and got a T7 game. With two T6 CVs each side. We managed to kill their CVs though... but it was wonderful.

...and it is still lotsa troll if you do it right, and with a bit of luck.

Just seen 2 sealclubbers, ehm, fellow forumites @triumphgt6 and @Admiral_Snack_Bar.... ... I am grinding the Kürfurst before it gets "coal", was in the T5 König... LOL-game, we won easily. AHOYYYY fellow clubbers! The seals are fat today!

I am assuming the drunk autopilot kills off 3-4, so ~6 to 7 remain...

usually I get to #3, and then I get blapped... it also is not the fastest accelerating thing. Well, usually I do such stuff even in a Conqueroir, it ends usually with 1 DD dead (not my divvy) one or two cruisers dead and a BB burning. When I survive the carnage I manage to do some more... usually I don;t though but the cap is ours and adversaries dead. Eh well, that is MM for ya. That is also why I always say, better be lucky than good. Unfortunately usually I am none of both...

Maybe I should have stated that I usually div up (with my son who is a DD-main). Then it is usually "two to the cap" so no need for radar/hydro... just kill everything that is in that cap and around it. Which I never do alone. So, yes you are right other ships are better if you do that without a divvie. Found the Nevsky a great citadel magnet, but probably that is me, others do pretty well in it. Which is one more reason to choose wisely. The ship must fit your playstyle (and yes Nevsky rots in port, until X-mas boxes). Cheers capt'n!

AA is overrated, and I say that as a (savvy, not unicum) CV player. I can swat a DM in 3 sorties... with any CV. Therefore... screw AA. The radar and hydro, yes. But I am more of a close-combat-yolo-FU player. It would suit my playstyle. Not disagreeing there. I call that multi-purpose though, for the way I play the game. I'll get Plymouth... most likely... for that reason. I have Salem... that is why I know I have no need for Des Moines. The ship is fine but it would not serve me well. Well, as said - that was MY opinion. Check my Nevsky WR... and you see why. As said, he should check what he likes best to play.

Yes, and he is probably having fun improving himself and his gameplay. Good one! But for each one like him, there are 10 others that just move their mouse around while watching XHamster on the other screen...

AFAIK they already slow down/smoke themselves (they also "magically" avoid torps) but the heal is a good point. However please not for the other ships, that will lead to some just hugging the healing ships all the time, which is no good. IMO we also need MORE transport ships (10 or so, pair them up if needed), and the route of the convoy (which ALSO needs variation) needs to be UNCLEAR to the enemy. And yes the autopilot is still drunk. But I think we'll have to live with that...

The thing is, 100% sure the reds also get a CV. And to do well for your team, you need to whack the other team as much as possible. Since that means that, if they get a CV, yours also will get a CV, I'd rather have a good one than a bad one. This is also why I started to play CV, sort of. Other reason is because we got Ark Royal (and they said it would be bad with the slow planes). But main thing, because I realised there would be a situation where you have a choice, but it would be a disadvantage to your team. And we did get that, when WeeGee decided to put CVs in Clan Battle. Which I knew they would do. Result: If you do not have at least a savvy CV player in CB, you're lots of times just screwed. Same thing is gonna happen with subs. So I will play subs, and try to GitGud. Or hope we have one player in the team that has GitGud. Meanwhile we can only hope WeeGee takes the criticism and fixes the subs. Because 100% we'll get them in randoms, and finally in CB as well. BTW I do also feel sorry sometimes, but also for the poor cruisers, when I blap them in one shot sailing my fat BB at a spot where they cannot even shoot back. Subs COULD be less griefing if WeeGee takes appropriate action, the question is, will they. And yes they have a bad record...

That is the main thing indeed. For CVs this is not fixable, since their "main body" is not involved and they can attack where they like. So what we get then, is a certain "balance/negation" for (well, sort of) the ammo that gets delivered. For subs though, this should be fixable since they physically need to be near the "delivery". The question is, how much risk-vs-reward is WeeGee gonna apply.

He will though. The T8 CV is probably smacking the targets that he wants to take, and doing it faster than he can. As in, when you are in a New Mex and there are two BBs - and the other is a T8. You know he is competing for targets. He will probably blap the red T6, and not you. There goes your score. Also, you do not want to meet the red T8.... Double CV is also quite crud if you are the low-tier one. He'll not like it much either. But I can understand that you do not feel any pity for them.

I'm just saying, that T6 CV driver probably agrees to that. Which is obvious. They still have, as CVs are broken, and some are OP as well.

First of all, it depends what you like to play. Your playstyle should determine what ship you get. I know several players that went for (for example) Napoli, as it is a fine "multi-purpose" cruiser. However since they are a DD-main, they still curse themselves not getting the other one. Napoli: multi-purpose cruiser, jack-of-all trades - but quite flimsy (would be my choice as I like the Italian cruisers). Yoshino: superior long range HE spammer with good accuracy and surprise-torps. (I'll never get that one, it is not my playstyle). Immelmann: Good TX CV, probably top 3. (but will not get it as I already have FDR and the rest of them). Mind, this is just my opinion, for my next coal ship it is gonna be Napoli (as I do play cruisers and CB). Next steel ship, I dunno... maybe that Plymouth, very multi-purpose, but it is flimsy. Might also go get Stalingrad (finally). Also, I am grinding RP and already have Ohio - no idea what I'll get next, Slava seems kinda duh (long distance...), and DDs/Colbert are not my kind of ships. So, think about it - main thing: if the ship does not suit your playstyle, you will not enjoy it and it will rot in port. Which would be a waste of your precious saved coal. Yes, playstyle. I'd never get Marceau - since I do not like the "race til you drop, dakka all the way". I'd also suck at it and it would rot in port. But YOU would probably never get something like Ohio... or Thunderer. Which is good, all the same ships would be boooooring.

I dunno what preference that T6 CV got then, quite sure he'd rather have a T5 MM... I bet he lost credits there, when you have a T6 CV and you get T8 it is quite a tough life. Also, then you get a T8 CV which means there aren't any targets to farm. Maybe look at stuff less one-sided? Because that T6 CV probably has the same "fun and engaging" complaint that you have.

The thing is, I think they have invented it to make subs able to hit other subs. There is no need for it to hit surface ships. In fact, IMO subs should only be able to hit surface ships when at surface or at periscope level. But well.

True. I am re-grinding the US BB line, so guess what: North Carolina it is. Teammate is short on credits: Cossack here we go. That said I have seen people do great in the most unlikely ships. I have also seen them FF-it up in ships that you'd think would be good. I like the game mode. But needs more "sinkables", that is, get more Liberty (and Victory) ships. Some tankers / ammo-transports (that would blow up spectacularly), some other stuff that goes "deviant" or "AWOL" when the attackers come closer... Also, a larger map? And an "incognito" route? But I think it's good. Usually better than playing randoms. @MrConway thank you - finally you did it. (if you only could fix subs... before you smack 'em in... all would be good...)

It is clear that the critisism is reaching your ears. Why not listen? - homing torpedoes are hated. Reserve them for T10, if you must. - DCP use also hated, if you reserve homing for T10, maybe give them "degaussing". If damage needs to go up, just give the subs heavy-hitting torps with lots of flooding chances. Plenty other methods have been provided, and I am sure they'll work better than this crappy mechanic. That is as expected. No surprise there, but I hope you will chance the stuff for the better. After all, if the game is no fun anymore, there will be no more game... There is no need for that indeed. But I do not think you are making it easy. Well at least you have given most (if not all) ships some form of ASW. You will most likely find that Dutch cruisers will no longer be played much. And I hope that will confirm what you already know.

They are the same as Italian cruisers, IMO. The grind to T10 is mostly horror. Some of them are kinda OK-ish, but the prize is the T10: 16 guns and rear turrets are 360 degrees. Means you can stay bow-in (which you need), use most guns, and escape using the fuel-smoke. Caracciolo is good, the rest are MEH (low tiers are irrelevant... it is sealclubbing...) Andrea Doria and Lepanto are just crap. But... Colombo is brilliant. Really really troll. Marco Polo has good guns, too. Mind I run "expert loader" on all of them... you need to know when to shoot AP. Score is lacking a bit, because it depends on finding enough dorks on the enemy team. Those can be two kinds: 1. the ones that think angling will help, and then you shoot SAP... 2. the ones that think you will always shoot SAP, and then you shoot AP (those are the best...). Mind that shooting AP helps less in higher tiers, because most BBS will get enough armour so you'll not get a citadel. But cruisers... are sort of impossible to NOT get citadels. With Colombo, you cannot miss.

Well, I don't rate Mogami very highly in that part either... favourite food. Could be fun for some then, but not for me. More for the enemy team when finding me in one.

T6-7-9, some 9. Too bad you often get uptiered from T8. But the middle tiers is where the most fun is. High tier = same brain (or lack of it) with bigger clubs.