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Actually that would be correct if some skill was required... But with a T6 sub even in T8 game, I never end the game without damage. And - trust me - they do not come much more potato than me...

Yes, same as when they are "close enough" and lose the homing. But, like any torpedo, they still can hit citadel. Or cause flood.

True. It cause "all or nothing" hits. Would be better if they made a delay between each launch.

Same in CVs, you lose all your planes spotting a Mino, nobody does anything... So, you gpo get the next squad... decide to go all-in, and attack... Torps are in the water.... right before they hit.... BOOMMM (LOL). Yeah and right after they want YOUR assistance...

You should be able to at least get one target smackered good. Spotting is sometimes the thing that denies you the actual damage. I'm sure you get this too: when your torps are about to strike, there comes the BLAP... but it is not yours. And when you finally get that perma flooding/fire... they finish him off the second after. Definitely enjoyable when you took all the damage to get close enough (because they ignored your cries for help for the last 5 minutes). Yeah mate great teamwork thanks... LOL.

No they're not harder, just more "occasional". Meaning - like a Smolensk or something, you have to find the circumstance to really FF stuff up. But when you do, yes you really can, and it is not that hard. But it also gets easier to get wrecked if you FF it up. I'm amazed you do not have them yet BTW, when you have the T6 it is only 2500 to the T8.

Currently, that would first of all involve a lobotomy of some sorts. But really I'd wait and see what happens, who knows what WeeGee is gonna (not) do. BTW: So far we're all just....

He also doesn't understand that variance as such is a matter of balance and a wide variance means it's crud. But I found it no problem whacking BBs at all. Also, damage does not equal XP. Ask him why, and be amazed. Or maybe not, as you'll probably not grasp his answer.

Current iteration certainly will not "cut the cake".

There is a 3rd option. High risk, high reward. At the moment though I see no risk unless your sub FF-it up, like I did. And even then... I honestly think if I'd get just mildly good I'll do 200K every game. Which is ridiculous. But it should be as "the wise man" said. ASDIC should be a thing, on every ship. Which it is not. The risk of detection should be very great, which it is not. Also, the possibility of escape should be small. Which it is not. The only thing that they have is great damage possibility. Which is achieved by a trickery method, needing other tricks to counter. I would be much better if this bag of tricks would not be needed. No homing on surface ships, but guaranteed 80% flood chance? So you'd get, 100% flood chance minus whatever captain skills (etc) the surface ship is running. And same for damage. 100% minus "torpedo protection" - but no citadel possible Maybe then give them two sorts of torps, second one being "deep water" that could hit citadel. And make the DW slower reload or something and not able to home on subs?

This, basically. The more stuff they "invent" the more difficult it is to "balance". AKA - more crap thrown in, is more crappy gameplay. Keep it as simple as possible. Any "interesting-side-effect-repairs-of-balance" bring their own problem. @YabbaCoe subs can be interesting and a nice addition to the game. However what you have produced now is a collection of "gifts" that is not about gameplay but about the use of those "gifts". Most players will, sooner or later, find out how to make all your "gifts" come together in the most abusive way. Would you like me to explain? Well, what we have now is comparable to a DD that: - reloads torps in ~60 secs; - can launch them single-file (like UK DDs); - and does so at 10-12km distance; - with speeds in the range of the fastest torps in game. BUT adding to that: - the torps do massive damage; - even have a mechanic that "guarantees" citadel hits; - ...and if they do not hit citadel they'll still hit more than DD-torps, because they steer. AND then adding to that: - this "DD" gets a 10-minute-smokescreen (diving); - even the lightest version of that smokescreen (periscope) keeps him hidden at 2.5 km....; - he can (contrary to a DD) still spot from INSIDE that "smokescreen".... - he can (at will...) remove himself from the game by "going deep". - ...and he can then relocate himself.... Must I go on comparing countermeasures or do you see the problem? Subs doing too little damage is not the problem of the subs. Here's a story for you. I managed to sink 2 BBs (or almost) in the first game I played with a T6 sub in a T8 game. Also I was key to deleting a capping DD. It was sooooo easy. Here's how it went down: I went into cap right away, but got to periscope depth, and moved behind an island. --> so nobody knew I was there, cap wasn't turning. And then an enemy DD comes there, so I sneak up to him. At 3 km, he doesn't spot me at periscope depth. --> DD gets deleted by my teammates. He never even saw me. Then I surface, I am behing this island, and start capping. Enemy BB moves in. He stops cap from being turned. He gets set on fire by my teammates, uses his DCP. --> so I move out from behind island, and dive a bit. Launch torps and double-ping him. BOOMSHANKA. ~50K.. BB gets finished by my teammates, but meanwhile another one has approached the cap. Which I am now capping. That BB also gets set on fire... he shoots at me, uses his ASW planes, I lose 50% HP. --> I dive and relocate.. I am safe...meanwhile I have also run aground 3 times but no matter... I am unspotted... I know that BB (bow-in) cannot turn, else my mates wil have his broadside. He is already burning... --> so, from my new position, at ~ 6-8km from that BB, I double-ping him... He now uses DCP because he is already on fire and half dead... --> knowing it will take time for his DCP to return, I launch torps, a bit to his left. And then I ping him again... He wiggles... but I keep pinging... --> then, of course, I get stuck on a rock again (duh) and I get killed. But my torps still hit and I get 100K or so in total. AKA how me, as a TOTAL N00b, kills (or almost kills) two fat T8s, screws over a DD, and ends up... 3rd on team. YabbaCoe, I have plenty experience in the game, and even though I'm not the best player I am quite savvy. To do 100K with whatever T6 in a T8 game... that easy... that quickly... well... no. And if I had not been a total N00b, I'd have gone on for the rest of the game like that. Because my game time was ~10 minutes. I will do more of those games... and post the results... for you all to see... its is FAR TOO EASY. And yes I have Smolensk, Thunderer, FDR... this, however, beats it by miles.

He probably means, the ones that WERE spotted. In the tests there was spotting because subs didn't have long "underwater time". They dived WHEN spotted, and after diving they were quite slow - also on the surface, as well. So you COULD actually assume that is a sub was spotted somewhere, you'd find him in the area. Not so much anymore. They travel at the surface as fast as a speedy BB, even keeping up with CVs/cruisers. And they'll make sure they dive when still unspotted, too - because they have enough "downtime". And then they have enough speed/torp distance... ah well, you know. Even having hydro will not save you, as they sit underwater at 10km. launching guided torpedoes that can only be seen seconds before they hit. Yeah you can use DCP. But even if you do, they'll then probably hit your nose/rear giving you a nice flooding.

Well, at least you found his clan already. A guy with 200K+ damage in a T10 BB, here ya go. I think I understand more about stats than you do. I used to give classes about stats, and apparently I am better at finding 200K+ player as well. Now relate that to the damage you do in a sub, in percentage of the whole team. But you think it is OK, because you cannot do it all the time. I am telling you that there's many guys that can do it. All the time, with a finger up their.... I did a few T6 battles, 100K, easy, and I definitely suck heaps. Note that is what we did a few times, me in a CV (FDR) just dumping on fat Bbs to get a fire, teammate in Thunderer to set 3 fires after they DCP-d. Max we had was a Thunderer getting 280K damage. And we did it a few times more... 200+ easy. Yes possible. But not alone. We also did 2x Smolensk (before the nerf) + CV, Flint+ Belfast... yeah if you wanna troll then you troll (zero karma guaranteed). But that is not what it is about. It is about you thinking that, if your average damage evens out, a ship (sub) is not broken or OP. The problem there is that if YOU cannot do some sort of "medium average damage", but keep having "nil-max games", it is YOU. Those max damage games are apparently possible. And since you are not able to do them all the time, this also means it is possible to do it without being "unicum". As such, imagine somebody who is an unicum (in that ship, or the class...) or somebody who is actually good... You get what I'm saying? If not, these are an example of unicum stats: https://wows-numbers.com/player/526953200,El2aZeR/ Compare those to what YOU did in a sub. Now think about it. He'll just kill the whole team. 200K every game guaranteed. @El2aZeR oh masterrrr, your expertise is wanted. Maybe a new class to show how WeeGee has (again) ignored any form of counterplay...

Well, take a guess why I am not playing that, LMAO. Might do it if we can div up with some clanbuddies that want to play it. But else...narf. (and yes I have the Boom-chakalakov... and also some T8 subs... so that is NOT the reason why I do not play it).

Average damage in any tier 10 BB does not exceed 201,435 K at the moment - for ANY player and ANY ship. Usually 160-180K. However, those players will do that consistently, and not between 25K and 300K. So, why don't YOU think before you type. Or do you think average damage of ~100-120K is because they all get 240K one game and zero in the next one? LMAO.

Really if that is the case, then it means it is hopelessly broken and OP. Broken, because there will be other people (that are good, or maybe even YOU if you GitGud) able to do those games all-the-time. And OP, because, well.... you CAN do those kind of games quite often.

Actually, as you probably know the XP-income for CVs got nerfed, else they'd be top 3 most of times. But yeah bring on the buffs (oh dear lord of flies.... NOOOOOOO).

That may be the explanation. However quite often I just BLAP the DD. And I'm sure that is not "all guns hit", which is impossible.

MAN! DUDES! Well, something learned, thanks for that. I thought on the AP the damage limit was only 50% or so. Weird thing is I have much more success blapping DDs with AP. Anybody know why?

Well you are correct about the deck, that is something you can do to (for example) a camping Yamato at 20km. Noses, yes. Russian BBs have looooong noses, Frencies too. But mostly I just shoot BBs above the belt. 12-16K shots. The damage I get is pretty low, though that is because I usually have short games. Eh, not because of me, team gets ROFLSTOMPd or does it. In a 10 minute game you will do ~100K at the max, usually much lower. But that is something I experience with most BBs. Favourite victims: cruisers.... remember never to pick a fair fight. If you pick on a T10BB, he will screw you over.

16 guns x supertstructure/above citadel pens is nothing to be sniffed at. I have blapped (angled!) BBs with it, just in a different way than you'd do with other BBs. Yes that is a good point. BB SAP does only 10% damage to Dds. You are better off shooting AP at DDs, if you use SAP... you are screwed. Cruiser SAP is much much better...

I know. That's what I did (running) and that is what he did. But I guess I have a lot more experience in BBs than he had in subs. Would not say I'm any good, just more experience. Yes, and this is what WeeGee doesn't understand. Subs get a 10-minute smokescreen advantage, which is too much. Granted they can't do much there but: - it should be possible to detect them, maybe if they move too fast down there; - ...and they should use MORE "divetime" instead of less. They COULD make them fun and balanced. But they did not observe "risk vs reward".

You are correct. The ship is fine, but you have to take care not to get whacked early game. The playstyle I use is, get into the brawl fast, whack around, use smoke to get out - heal up, rinse-repeat. If you do that in later game, it ends up being quite effective. Seems to work but the damage output is kinda really MEH. Also, the grind is kinda like the cruisers. From which I only kept Trento and Venezia (rest got sold and scrapped). Main letdown for the BBs is the damage of BB-SAP vs DDs. But I always run expert loader, on the cruisers as well.

I'm grinding the German BBs... because, yes, "premium" Currywurst.... So, yesterday I had a T6 game in the König (T5). Had double CV and a sub. I had to "run" from the sub, he could just about NOT keep up. Because he came closer, but I kept running away, he used homing but I managed to outrun/avoid the torps. The sub chased me above water, then pinged, and torped. TBH I think he SHOULD NOT be able to keep up with me. In the end our cruiser killed him, because sub got spotted. And then we managed to kill both enemy CVs, and won. For me, 3 kills and 90K damage, not bad... but I only saw him once. But I do not think I'll be able to do that when there are TWO subs chasing me... or if they get any better at it. T5 for me (11K games) is sort of sealclubbing, after all.

Well, maybe both teams have the same complaint then (most likely). And let's face it, the spotting is useless for the CV player as well. I cannot count the times that I dropped the last set of torps, and then the ship got "kill secured". It will not hurt the CV at all if spotting is a bit lessened. Might even be good for own damage output. I think my damage number in Ark Royal will benefit a lot. CVs will spot less for the teams then. Means DDs will be more usefull. Which is good, IMO.