BLUB__BLUB

Well, TBH your points were also good, the problem is nobody uses the test server much. I did try it, but outside some "peak times" (which were good, TBH) most you got was me + two more, and three on the other side - rest b0ts. Which is probably why WeeGee spams their broken OP crap on the randoms sever. Well...

Well, I guess you didn't, because WoWS still is in beta... it is nowhere final.

If any consolance, it is no fun to be in such a division either. You do not have time to make some damage as the game ends really quick. That said... it is better than being alone and losing all the time because you get all the taters. Games seem to last short, because most people do not know how to play. I wish they tried harder. I did. But the end result is this: - play alone, h get short games, lose all the time; - div up, get short games, but hey at least you win... usually. Best games are when WR between the reds/greens is somewhat balanced. I like those hard-fought games, win or lose. Unfortunately it is only 1 in 25 or so. Note: I have ~12k games... but I am sort of average, in the end. I am still grinding ships. But I am getting better... note the absolutely mega filthy winrate on the Colombo... Also, I am re-grinding the US BBs (does it show...) and now I grind the "really fat ones" leading upto Vermont. https://wows-numbers.com/player/552033702,BLUB__BLUB/

These are valid points. IMO a sub should be similar to a DD - except it would be an EXTREME one. Imagine a DD having ONLY torps... and a shite deckgun. Now... instead of smoke, that DD has a "dive mechanism". And as such it should be seen. There is no need to end up with what we have now, because what we have is failed in too many ways. Besides the guided torps - subs are too fast. Any surface ship, even the slowest BB that it could meet, should be able to escape when the sub is dived. They should NOT be able to outrun the faster ships even when on the surface. But there's plenty leeway there. The surface speed should be a lot quicker, even if that wasn't so in real life. But they should be no faster than the slowest DD. Maybe similar to cruisers... you cannot say they have no option to reposition, then. For a T10 sub, the max underwater speed should be less than 20kts. For a T8, a bit less - even a Lolorado would escape. So, to run down that Lolorado he'd have to surface. And THEN it would be a matter of detection range, like DDs. What I often do - I go around an island when he is chasing me... then I wait... BOOM. Also, any ship should have something that detects a sub.... and a way to deal with it. And... no fun? We have DDs that thrive on sneaking up on ships wayyyy out of the action. They do MASSIVE damage if they hit. Their play is also attractive to some. I'm sure somebody will play subs. Because the damage they do should be related to the risk they run. So yes massive damage. But ONLY when you run the risk of being detected, and punished for it as well. Mean fast, fat torps. inaccurate, except from close range, where you can be detected. Preferably more accurate when fired from surface or periscope depth. As the risk of being detected is less from persicope depth, give those torps more dispersion or less damage. Subs CAN BE balanced. Unlike CVs, they actually have to deliver the ammo THEMSELVES, so they are near the area. CVs can only be mitigated at best, they'll always be broken. But subs don't have to be. However.. this is WeeGeee......

Sub vs sub will not be possible without the ping. But IMO it is not necessary for surface combat, and they should thus remove that ping. Maybe keep it as a "radar thingy" so subs can spot from "working depth", but only for themselves.

I think it may be very near. The next CB they promised: no CV. But they didn't say anything about subs.

Indeed there isn't much left to report. They know the problems, let's see f they fix it. I'd be for non-guided against surface ships, guided for other subs. And then give them some super-blap kind of torps (DW?) or "magnetic" that explode under the ship. Or more flooding chances, risk vs reward. But once spotted, they need to die quickly. Also DDs should have sonar or something. Yes that is what we do, too. A DD or a Smolensk... or Flint... (and a CV... oh lord... the amount of troll is great...)

YES, as they are only supposed to set fires vs surface ships. Low pen. Not at surface = he doesn't get fire. SHOOT THEM with the guns. They'll take good damage until ~10m. Use HE as the splash damage is better. Well, your prediction will be as good/bad as mine.

Well now that will not help if you haven't got radar or hydro, eh. Also, if the sub is smart, he stays out of the detection range. Or just dives a bit for radar. ... if the sub cannot see them, he is under water and usually the ships that have those flybombs can't see the sub either. Generally, if you get pinged you have a direction of where the ping came from but good luck as it can be anywhere between 2-12km. And yes torpies will be coming but might come in from left, right, or both sides. he can still target fine even if he is depth charged. This one is BS. ... but at least that DD can be run down, this comparison is wrong. A sub can ALSO be outside spotting range. Diving under when the ships come near if he cannot run away. Eh, it is also bvery easy for a sub to outrun a BB. Diving for a sub is like a DD having smoke screen. That DD can't see anything either. But, unlike that sub, the DD cannot insta-recall a smokec screen, and it cannot last as much as 10 minutes. Also, he can still be hit in smoke. Or radared. Or hydroed. I haven't seen any sub on the map after pings, only the general direction where the ping came from. You cannot dodge what you do not see coming in time. Try it, once you see those torps it is sort of too late. And you do not see the sub. You only see where the ping comes from, and torps could be incoming to left or to right. And, as with planes, can change direction as well.

Basically, this indeed. The mechanisc work, but stil not final. In the end they may lose the guided torps, or get nukes, we don't know. Could go either way. The main problem, subs cannot be spotted at all if they do not want to. A DD, if you see his torps, you know where he WAS > you can run him down. In the end, you'll find him. Sub... he does not have to be where his (guided) toirps come from... also... just dives... good luck finding him. Same if a DD chases your BB. You go around an island, and there you wait... BOOM. The BOOM might be you or him. Sub, well, you just will never ever see him, unless he FFs it up. The BOOM will be you, and just you.

I have them all the time. You get them for a "rental period" of 10 days. But then the mission returns so you get them again. And since I play a lot... But I do not use them much, only when I am in an exceptionally troll mood. Maybe this weekend we'll do a sub (just for spotting...) and 2x Smolensk. EDIT: thinking about that, a T6 sub and 2x Flint...

Well, the thing they have to do is "dive deep" and NOTHING will spot them there... then just go the other way. Also, you need to combine efforts. So not only do you need buddies to help kill him, but also they need to be near enough or they cannot send their planes. He can also torp you from outside the range of most planes. AND you need to spot him (or have a good idea where he is) to make anything hit at all. I actually killed one in Kansas today. I could do nothing against him at first. He just kept pinging me. And since he could ping me faster than I could use DCP, I did get hit by his torps. A lot. And I could not outrun him. He was also lighting me up for his buddies. But hey, it is a Kansas so I just killed off his buddies... Then in the end he ran out of "dive time" and he surfaced, and he was stupid enough to do it so I spotted him. BLAP. And yes that was a 30%-er in a T10 sub... if he had not made that last mistake, he could have farmed me until the end. Did manage to kill their CV after that though, LOL. One sub and one CV, heheheh.

I think they can even be good and quite fun. Just... not like this.

Not needed. Contrary to carriers subs actually have to be NEAR the target to launch their ammo (CVs launch planes wjich delibver ammo and the CV itself can't be punished) So, as a "risk vs reward" you should be able to punish the sub when he delivers his ammo. Kije all other ships (except CV...). The problem is WeeGee gave them far too much crapperoni. Imagine a DD stealth-firing GUIDED torps from a 2 minute impenetrable smoke. And now imagine that DD having sonar and ping to spot as well. Now, imagine that smoke to be able to not only block view, but bounce bombs and stuff as well. Subs are not the problem. The problem here is WeeGee.

The first I agree. The second, not so much. There are ships that have a "skill gap". AKA a sort of mechanic, that is quite abusable by anyone good enough. But that most players will not be able to abuse. The average there will be skewed. Really? Subs are below average because most players really are quite stupid. Most DD players, however, are quite savvy. Because you need to be, else you'll not survive 5 minutes. And yes Dds are more useful. That is part of why subs suck. Well... there is some truth in that. Except if the average is when some people have played them 2x, and score zero - and others do really really well. This is true as well. However, if you div up in a certain way... There is something like a "cancer division", and a troll division, for instance. For example: 2x Smolensk and a CV. There is the thing I agree with you. The average player is what matters. Also, i think they do not come any more average than me. 50% WR, some ships more, some less, some ships absolutely horrible. I found subs quite easy... it is REALLY easy to do > 100K damage. Also, it is really easy as well to stuff it up and get blapped and do 10K. As such, my average will be ~55K. No problem? Well, what if I try to get better? I am quite sure I can learn. I'll do 100K+ all the time. In fact, quite sure I'll do 200K most of the time. And then there is others that are ACTUALLY GOOD. And what they do, THIS is the problem. And then they div up...

They should have sold Kamchatka to the Chinese as well.

Change them for depth charges. I do not need rockets anyway.

There is no such thing as God in WoWS, only RNGesus. And RNGesus doesn't give a damn, if you meet @Bear__Necessities or his buddies, you are FFd.

Well, I do play DDs. badly. But now I at least know why I do not have any trouble scoring with subs.

Seems legit. But more than that: very fitting.

Is it crap? Yes it is crap. Just not that crap.... some are even crappier...

You are correct. But basically it is WeeGee that FFd it up. Subs are, IMO, able to fit in the game - because they have to go physically near a target. You could have a chance to spot them and return fire. CVs do not. Physically they stay away from the target, and all you get to fire at is "their ammo". Which is broken at the start. But WeeGee have made bad choices in counter measures, which is the main problem. With CVs they have left the countermeasures "against their ammo" to damage negation (turning etc) and automated RNG. With subs, basically better, they have made them much too protected. How so... well... Imagine a DD having stealth torps, guided and bypassing torpedo protection, 20-minute smokescreen... ...and then the ammo that you need to hit it while in the smoke has a looooong reload.

Eh well, the rush was about the only thing I could do, as your buddies were too close before. Dammit every time I see you THESO guys on the other side it ends up like that. FML. We were bound to lose. Our side gave you some resistance, I knew at the start we had to try hard - but the other end crumbled like a cookie. I saw that Georgia so imminent destruction, but the alternative would have been not to do anything at all. Figured I'd at least try get you... Hahaha I already knew it eats citadels from anything. Don't ask... That was the last game I needed in it also, fortunately, Henry grinded and spaded. Now to retrain the captain...oh boy... on the De Grasse... ? Ehhh... Well... I found some of the French cruisers kinda meh. I hope the T10 is better... much better... (I'll retrain him on Strassbourg I guess... LOL)

I still do not see ASW though...

Well maybe, but what would the smell be like?