BLUB__BLUB

That is because in RTS they would meet equally or even more "challenged" CV-players. They meet them now too, but it doesn't matter because Cv doesn't counter the other CV. As such it doesn't even help or get more exiting if the other CV player is also a tater.

True. Youcan use them on 1 sliver ship, then spam them all over your premiums. Which is what I do as well. Yes... Yamamoto + Tachibana... Considering putting him in a T5... or 4...

I'd not call ranked "competitive", it is just a game mode (also usually a shitshow) and not much else than randoms. BTW they also work in co-op, before you go call "blaping".

True, but the "3d VS 2d" doesn't really have to be the problem. As long as the main target (ships, subs or CV) is at the same surface. The problem comes when the target is not (planes, or dived sub). Then new mechanics are needed. And they CAN be easily found, mostly. AA against planes up, D depth charges against subs down. However CVs send minions, which is broken, unless we put sticky bombs on returning planes... Agreed. They should make them like CVs. They spot each other but can't do much. Teammates will have to do the work for them. Even though ramming is always an option, and of course a CV or sub can torp everything at surface - also the other CV or sub. Yes that is what they need to do, sort of. Probably the same thing that decides how long DDs can sit inside a smokescreen (though they are not invulnerable inside). They could be able to fire torps from "working depth" though, but then they'd need to "ping the target" to see it. Or teammates spotting. They would NEED TO BE unrealistic, at least for a bit. However there are lost of other things quite unrealistic. If you are on a fat battleship at full speed, might take 15 minutes to go from full speed to stop... So, a bit of unrealistic is not bad - just when it gets too much. There CAN BE a "happy middle". I just doubt if WeeGee are able to find it.

Personal opinions aside - subs should be easier to balance that CV. Where the CV sends only his minions,. the sub has to be on the spot when delivering the mail. That said, if they introduce crap like "homing" et cetera, this makes any balancing more difficult. WeeGee, why do you not start out like subs really did: At lowest tiers, a sub is a DD that doesn't have a smokescreen but instead it can dive (for a while). And yes it has very crappy guns (so do some DDs) so this compensates by having better torps. At T6 a sub should be somewhat like a Kamikaze R. Since the sub cannot outrun other ships he should just "outdive" them. I'm quite sure they can be balanced, and even fun - but introducing gimmicks is not gonna work. Imagine giving a Kamikaze R guided torps... good luck balancing that. WeeGee wants subs to fight other subs. IMO that is why they get those guided things. But I think subs should not fight other subs. They should detect them, but not be able to fight them. Unless certain situations: other sub at surface (tops, deck gun) and ramming.

Some people tend to forget: special skills do not work in Clan Battles. I suppose they also do not work in other competitive modes. And yes ships first, and "cycle" the commander as much as possible across premiums/freemiums..

They could give ACTUAL fighters, that you have to hunt the enemy bombers with... But NAAAAAHHHHHH won't happen (too complicated LMAO).

LMAO last week I killed off a Currywurst in CB. Him vs me. He had some secondary spec as he started shooting at 12km out. I have it specced for range and use flags. He got 34 hits on me, and I got 50+ on him... And I had him down while I still had ~50% HP... Might be the ship just fits me. Would be a miracle, though.

You... will... get...subs...and... like...them... In fact we already have them. Doesn't mean you have to like them. However the subs are "AT THE DEED" unlike CVs that send their minions. And as such they do notn eed to be broken or unfixable. So any imbalance or cruddy design is WeeGees fault interely.

I know that, it is why CV gameplay is inherently broken. This is not fixable. Still, other choices could have been made to make it more "enjoyable". Example (a dumb one, but...) The plane-factory (hangar) could have been "mood-dependent". As in: - no plane comes back, but great hit = mild joy, they make some more planes, slowly; - no planes come back, bad hit = panic mode, they produce planes like a madman. - all planes come back, missed = get out again ASAP with same planes. - all planes come back, great hit = they all get druk, no planes for next minute launched... You may think it is stupid (it is...) but some of the stuff now is even more stupid.

Not really, they are his minions....

Be quiet or BOW will come and go on about secondaries.

Boaaarffff I have zero karma anyway and perma chatban.

Bloody damn great (even in a Skypiggy)

Yes we do. We both know what CVs are like... But you'll probably agree that this will be the case when the other CV is driven by people like you-know-who... Usually it is the two CVs that remain, everything else already killed off...

...but can only be done if the other team have already sort of FF-ed it up, and they ALSO had a CV. So if it is hanging between a BB and a CV... well yes. But same thing would probably happen between a DD and a BB. He can just stealth-torp him (or one-shot him if he is 1HP), or take all the caps. Not much the BB can do about it.

Join BBMM, we invent them. Latest one: BLAPpanesed = When you citadel-smack a Japanese ship. BLAPpanese twins: double kill on Japanese ships... Should be possible... Look below... that isn't even the worst of it yet. Games are meant to be fun. So I always try to do my best (even if I am the fun police sometimes). I'm not down with DDs yet, but I guess I will have to start... someday...

Not if there is nothing left that can shoot him... If he has time. And if he has teammates to do the dirty job. Depends at lot on how the rest of the game was. If that BB spots that CV. Also that CV has to regenerate enough planes to kill him. I has that situation, I had to kill the BB else they'd win. Could not do it. He could not kill me, so if we had been ahead we'd have won. However in that situation I had to go close and kill him before time ran out, he almost managed to blap me as well. But yes, usually the CV will win. Depending on what he has to do. Sometimes though, he cannot. For example when behing on points and only one cap... CV is not allmighty.

I'd not say "submarine focused", it would be funny to have them spawn in a separate location though. You guys do have a dry sense of humor sometimes (I remember the brawls where an enemy BB spawned right next to the CV... or the CV spawned right next to the enemy... LOLLOLOLOLOL). How about this: Also, maybe do it like in that operation - ONE team spawns near the convoy, guiding it, and AT LEAST ONE allied surface ship has to stay with the convoy, else they run amok/away/loose... Then have the convoy "give a heal" like in Narai. And once all surface-ships are destroyed, the convoy scatters, but if an enemy surface ship catches them they becomes ENEMY PRIZE ... So now the allied subs have to sink it... That means all need to focus the warships and not shoot the convoy (you win, but zero points as no transport prize taken). The convoy (or what is left of it) will be "arrested" by the nearest ship/sub.. enemy or allied... and can be "brought home". Game ends: - if allied team manages to bring 1 transport (at least) home; - if enemy team manages to bring 1 prize home; - if all warships are dead... and all subs... - if all transports are dead then the warships have to fight untill last ship or time runs out. You could have some funnies there. Like, when a sub/ship tries to "arrest" a ship (go into the circle around that ship), then the (armed) transport resists and shoots the attacker... and he has to shoot him first and then the transport surrenders. But if he shoots the transport too much, the transport gets on fire and sinks so he has ruined it for himself... LMAO... You can also make it "unbalanced task", as in the allies get 5x surface ships and 2x sub, and the enemy gets 5x sub and 2 surface ships... or uneven tiers... LOL. maybe even make it "realistic" and send T7-8 Germans (Bismarck, Tirpitz) vs T6-7 Brits/US... Graf Zeppelin vs 2x T6 RN CV also sounds legit... Hahahahhahaa just bring it on at the first possible occasion. New-years-eve convoys then? Valentine-convoy?

Not really, it is sort of "inversed". In the end, if a BB has 1% HP, he still can shoot all his guns and do full damage. If the CV has 100% HP but no (or not enough...) planes he can just.. well... maybe go ram something. Yes he can still spot (if he is handy...) but he'll need teammates to do the damage, then.

Is it enough, simply put: yes. Because the ones that only have one plane left, are usually the ones that are bad. AND they'll also not understand that it is their spotting that will kill that last DD off. Instead, they go in, drop the one torp... Or they manage to eat even that last weak "black cloud". The better player though, he'll keep his single plane alive and spot you until you're dead. He'll GET you killed... but he won;t see any of that XP. GOOD players keep enough planes on hand to kill you themselves. The thing is, they did not have that much less planes... they just could send them in all at once. And then they DELETED ships in one go. Crossdrop 2 x 12 torps... BOOMSHANKA. It was sort of emulated in FDR, with the fat squadrons... I think the most hated CV... If you lose the whole squad there (and you can.. surprise MoFo Halland...) it will NOT grow back. IMO the most TOXIC mechanism is that when one plane gets shot down by FLAK, immediately it gets REPLACED by "one from above". That "reserve plane" also needs no aim, nothing at all. Second TOXIC is that the last plane gets shot down first by DPS. are you talking Kaga here... I wonder how much vodka produced that one.. BTW if you conserve planes on that, you can just LOL-torp all game... even at T10. No need to use bombs or rockets at all... Well, stupid is as stupid does. In RTS days there were also those that just attacked like a nutter for 5 minutes, and then tried to ram something. Also, they were "kinda good" as they were never shut down by the better player. He simple had no chance to kill the red planes as they were already dead. And then, after that "semi-good/bad" red one had wrecked half your team (and his planes) he just left, and your GOOD player had to see if he could also do similar damage, else he'd end up lower "on the ladder"... because he killed less ships than the other one. Ultimately that doesn't matter, it is the gameplay that suffers. And we ALL suffer because of that. If something is abuseable, people will abuse it. And then they call that "GitGud"... Ultimately though, it is WeeGees fault for still having a skill gap - but do you remember how much they were going REEE REEE about RTS CVs?

Well I don't think it makes a difference, if you need 3 strikes or just one. Doesn't make them more broken than they are already. In fact... ...maybe less broken because the CV (wel.. the "usual ones") lost planes. * Usual ones: I float around there in the endgame in my half-health Lolorado, there comes the Ryujo... with TWO planes... The not-so-usual-ones,. yeah they'll come with a full squad of torp bombers and then just wipe me out.

Eh well, I do not see how they get MORE broken, because they are already.

The same could be said about DDs though. As the amount of ships get less, he runs less risk of detection. Certainly after radar runs out (or all of them have been killed) and hydro is used up. And if he is the last one, then good luck finding him. Usually you never will and he just keeps farming... In case of a DD surviving that long, he either well-deserved it or he was a useless b@stard for the previous part of the game.

Wouldn't call them rare, I see them regularly, though they will become rarer as they are out of offer. Same as Krohnstadt. Stuff like Benham is already rare but was only available for a short time. But Musashi and Smolensk... you can call Thunderer rare then, as well.