BLUB__BLUB

Damage on subs will be MEH though. If those are removed, they need torps like Shima or relative nation DDs. I think it would be much better though. And if the want to keep the "ping"... let "torp + ping" be guaranteed flood.

It does help. A lot. I play DDs rarely, but so far have only been killed by CV once. I play them 1/3rd of games, or less. But mostly I play the Ark Royal, does that make it worse or better? OK and now they gave me two "super CVs".... I'm going to hell, I know...

To be "good"at CV you: - farm harder than the enemy CV; - or just kill all the DDs and hope your team don't throw it; - or actually try to determine which side of your team needs help (hope it is not all). When playing against CV, well, depends. You can try make yourself an unattractive target: - shut down the AA (when you are a DD0 to prevent most of the spotting (use it when he spots you anyway); - smoke up and deny him chance to hit; - know what he is carrying (rockets, torps, bombs) and make it as hard as possible to hit you; -find some buddies so your AA gets grouped (also, he might target the other one...). BUT: --> if you are lucky/good/nasty to hit, he will find some other victim and not waste his time. --> If he thinks you must die, well, then you die. But try to make it hard for him, which may save a teammate.

You should just shoot him (use HE). Your secondaries should kill him in under 1 minute, too. Unless he keeps popping up/down. Then you need to wait carefully before shooting. Popping up next to a BB is the most stupid thing... unless he does it at such distance he can still arm his torps, and your guns are facing the wrong way. and yeah then you are just FUUUUUUfuufufuffffuuuuuu ....

Well, TBH @YabbaCoe did listen - just that maybe we should scream harder. Weegee DID do something about the ping and the guided torps, just NOT ENOUGH. In some iteration on the test server, subs were actually quite good. It was the one where they emitted "bubbles" when underwater, if they moved - and were NOT deep enough. They also fixed the "6 m cheese" (above that, they couldn;t be hit by DC, below that, and you couldn;t shoot te hem.. .so they all hovered at 6m...). So it is not like, they aren't listening at all. And they WERE on the right path. I was thinking, yes, they finally have something. GO FOR IT. And that is when they invented guided torps... The one who invented that, please... FIRE HIM. Through a torpedo tube.

Stiffupperlips would be better. or maybe warmbeersippers.

Somehow they gave me two "Super-CVs"... but why would you BUY a camo for temporary ships???? Now wait until I have a really really bad day, and I feel like griefing...

Well, you only got one sub... count your blessings!

They did have such a mode - but then they withdrew that when we got subs THAT MODE (BTW @YabbaCoe) would be an excellent submarine test. If it turns out that everybody takes a sub and surface ships simply do not suffice... well then ya know. Seriously that mode would be a great test.

Maybe you should be happy that they have actually evolved beyond morse code...

I see your Exocet and I'll raise you an SS20.

Hold on... it just dawned on me what you said there. Just check what happened to the enemy Gearing, on which AP is also kinda crap. Granted: it should be harder for a DD to escape a Mino than for a sub... but how much harder?

you still should try them, even if only in Co-op or training room. Just to see how you can get rid of them faster...

Yes and in my opinion they did that quite well. The floating battery is really a floating battery, and has an attraction all of its own. Yes indeed. They should either do a large amount of alpha-damage or cause lots of flooding. And if WeeGee wants desperately to keep that PING, it should add more risk vs more reward. As in, ping makes the sub more visible (how much can be balanced) but should do guaranteed flooding. As a risk vs reward class they should take HUGE risk but also have possibility of HUGE reward. Similar to IJN DDs, yes they have great torps so chance to do large damage, but they are also very vulnerable. Subs as they are now are too fail-safe (if you're any good) and as a result they are boring AND annoying. What they are creating now is another Smolensk of sorts (like, with 20km range). It will just avoid any countermeasures (if you're any good). And while most players will suck (certainly at the beginning) it is abusable as hell. And yes the nerf to the range of Smolly did sort of solve the complaints. But now nobody will play it anymore. Can't say it is a great success there.

Was following them, too. You may think I was not... but remember I want to bring all guns onto him, since AP is quite ineffective (as we know). Meanwhile I also tried to get that French DD that was low. So I am not exactly bow-in to him. Just note that I could not run him down. I would have got him if there had been more time - but that is not the point. I do also agree with @Yedwy the oil slicks are not really standing out against the water. I liked the "bubble trail" from earlier iteration on the test server MUCH BETTER. (when a sub gave a bubble trail until it reached a certain depth, after which it could be only spotted by hydro, and not at all if it was "deep"). Mind that at this distance that sub will keep me 100% SPOTTED for al his buddies... (not sure about that though...), while I cannot provide my buddies (if I had any left...) with the same.

Well, he out-dragged me and out-circled me. That's the point. His diving, turning and speed prevented me from DC him. I was keeping the torps for the other Mino, since the distance I was from the sub means they probably would not have armed. Same as the Elbing (it is not exactly the most agile DD either, but hey). But yes I know I can torp subs. I have torped many of them by surprise attack from CV. Now how long do you think I would have lived if he had any friends? Point is - the main things subs should be afraid of, are the least effective.

The weird thing is, if you play Colorado (at T7 it is just a floating island), they managed to balance that. WITHOUT giving it absurd, unrealistic speed... and they even managed to do it all the way up to Vermont. Yes they are slow AF and yes some players may find them booooring. What WeeGee doesn't realize is that here are players choosing to do it just because they are the way they are. Slowness of a ship (or sub) should be compensated elsewhere, not "repaired by BS".

That is true, except that "playerbase". What you should admit is that you do not mean; just the current playerbase. What is meant is: the POTENTIAL playerbase. Including the ones you'll probably get if the game offers subs. The current playerbase keeps denying this, but yes this is indeed fact. This is where you are wrong. The guided torps is what is most hated by almost everybody that comments. Yet you persist in keeping it. Nerfing it, yes. Maybe it will be useless, or the other form of torps much better. But IMO there are no players that actually like it. Why do you keep it? Check my replay. IMO a Minotaur, agile ship, with hydro, fast rotating guns, depth charges... Mino vs a sub... should have only one (fast) outcome if the Mino player goes full monty. Then think of how this would have ended if that sub still had a friend. First part I even had a friend (that DD). We could not kill him. And if he had any buddies left we'd both be dead. This means that: - it is useless to attack a lone sub; - it is certain death to attack a sub when he has a buddy. Because that sub will then just spot you to death, without risk. Just like a CV.

Not really. I had one in Minotaur, the sub was capping. Almost everybody else was sort of dead. I managed to finish off their last Gearing. So I went to chase that sub. He was just finishing off our last DD. I was shooting at the sub, but he kept below surface. The DD died and now it was me vs that sub. HE was running rings around me, and pinging me. I knew it was too close for the guided torps to work, but he still pinged. And then he had to surface... Problem was, I'm not much faster with the Mino. And I also cannot totally BLAP him. Each time he was on the surface for a bit, took a few shells, and dived again. Then he popped up somewhere least expected. I had to turn the guns, and shoot, on which he dived. He survived SEVERAL MINUTES of that. Now if he had had any friends left in the area, I would not even have survived ONE MINUTE. In the end, I could not kill him, and could not drop DC on his head either. He was too fast and too agile - and that is vs a Mino. Now, @YabbaCoe, I am just an average player - but is this how you want subs to be able to troll cruisers? IMO he should have been an easy kill. But if he had had more teammates left, the easy kill would have been ME. 20220325_000309_PBSC110-Minotaur_45_Zigzag.wowsreplay

THIS. They have been told their "pinging guided torpedoes" don't fit the game about 100 times, and that "just press DCP" is crap, but they still have them - so it is still crap.

WeeGee version of RNGesus causes plenty duds... As in: - you press button, nothing happens... - you are sure you fired on the target, then it jumps due to desynch... - you launched 5 torps, and sure you'll kill that BB, but 3 torps hit "new underwater structure"...

OK maybe rephrase: "made them 50% less annoying but still over the barf limit". Would be easy, give ships "asdic" (which many had at the time), it should detect subs WHENEVER THEY MOVE in a certain area. Would not give a clear picture like hydro, but sort of a vague/on-off grey shadow. Then you'd at least know what he is up to. And that asdic should work all depths, except maximum depth, and within a certain radius. Only if he is 100% INACTIVE it would "fade out". We even had it before, on some iteration on the test server. IF he was near, he was detected, and if he went down, he gave a BUBBLE-STREAK. UNTIL HE REACHED SOME FINAL DEPTH. Also, finally dump that "ping" and the ludicrous guided torps, if they really want it just because they like that PING sound so much: make it "magnetic torpedoes" that explode under the hull and do extra (citadel) damage or guaranteed flooding. But then give ships a cooldown-consumable for "degaussing". Or even better, a captain skill. If your ship is degaussed then those torps will... (whatever... like, do meagre damage, or have a nice self-destruct effect...).

You have done about half of it, so maybe re-read the stuff that was written? Yes you improved them. But about 50%...

Make it an Akagi, with those planes - like Ark Royal. Would be much more interesting than another Ryujo. If people like the older style, maybe make it a "camo". We've seen whole churches on ships... so why not an older more historic version.

That's the thing indeed. I would like subs in the game, too. But just not the way WeeGee screws them up...