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Eh well, but BAD DD-players are in no way able to survive even mediocre CV players. Makes me wonder what we have more of. Would be better than always same stale BS.

Yes, but with 1.5 km air-spotting and such... I wonder what is worse, the level of CV-brokenness or DD-potatoness. As we see a good DD-player has no trouble... in fact he exterminates double CV... well... Well yes. But look at it the other way - how skilled are those DD players? I have had quite a few matches WITHOUT the fun police. Yes, even I sometimes do not play CV... And you use KOTS as an example. That is mostly GREAT, or at least GOOD players. I doubt if the problem is so much CV or DD... I think it is the players, mostly.

You are assuming the CV missed the torpedoes... CV don't miss torpedoes...

Mate T8 AA is even crap against T6CV. T10AA is only strong in SOME ships or if they clustyer up, for a T8 CV. And I even fail-div a T6Cv to t9 and then I torpedo a DD and sink two BBs. Killed a Friesland with Ark Royal, too bad I couldn't see his face. Muhahahaha and I'm not even that good....

Oh and here's another, a win - but a weekend win. T6CV in T8, well no problem but the game lasted 8 min 15 seconds. I killed the PEF and screwed with the Mahan and Leningrad. Tickled the Nagato and then it was all over. Outdid the enemy CV by a mile, but still a crappy damage result. My tactics work... just the game doesn't...

Boarfff. They work well enough. If I get a "regular" game I'll do 100k+ in a T6 CV. As such I find your reply a bit troll. You are correct though in a way, when I play solo I should be much more selfish. Helping random teammates = usually crud. Like last time, I spent 2 minutes helping my DD teammate (in IJN DD) attacking a Cossack. You know what happens in the end, he rams his 90% HP DD into that 10% Cossack. Hot damn. The trouble is, how many "usual games" do we get nowadays. Especially in the weekend. 5 minute ROFLSTOMP, or games where the whole enemy team gets exterminated and your team loses none, or something. I'm quite sure I can break into the 200.000 but if it will happen I don't know. I'm happy if a game lasts longer than 10 minutes. However. If you look at my stats (and forget about the troll eye) you can see which CVs I play most. The rest I just grinded to T10, just for the fact to have them ready (when WG throws then into CB, which they did...). I am mostly a team player, I do not like much playing alone but I will do it for the grind. Check the results with divisions... and no my teammates are not unicum players... all around 50%, like me. Now ask yourself again, do my tactics work or not. Also, again 3 defeats... I'll show you... this is weekend. Another losing streak... Nr1: Killed their DD, whacked a New Mex, one cap available. New Mex was dead, nobody else near, so I went capping it with the CV. Then... My (half) team sort of ran from 1 DD and 2 cruisers in the next cap, and that DD (Maass) got me... Hahahahaaa. Still managed to outdo the enemy CV (Ranger) by about 50%. (if we won I'd have 1160XP). Nr2: That would have been 1490XP for me if we had won (outdid the red Cv again) and 72K damage but the game ended rather soon. I cannot carry these taters man... they just wanted to die... we had three caps and more ships than the reds... Nr3: T8 game but no problem. I thought. There's me (near cap), a Sinop, and Aoba and a Tripits vs Sinop, Edinburgh and Littorio. I give all those BBs a good smacking, our Tirpitz tries to torp (??/ OMG) missed and died, Aoba splits, Sinop tries to ram the other Sinop but screws it up... I almost manage to kill the Sinop off but not quite. He goes out of cap, and gets me. Crap. Still outdid the Ranger. 72K damage there. Oh and I torped the Vasteras, LOL. I'm quite sure my method works. I usually out-perform the other CV by around 50%. It just isn;t enough to pull the win. When we are in division, it is PLENTY to pull the win, because each divmate, even if he's not unicum or whatever, means one less potato. We may have all 50%WR or thereabouts... together we can carry. Alone? Well not so much. But I'm not unicum, just "quite savvy".

Nah. It's just troll. When you know (and you can just watch the team liost at start) there is a Halland, you can expect this. What they do is the turn off the AA, then you spot them but it is too late to hit them or do anything. They trigger the AA and the sector and all they have. Usually you lose the whole squad, no matter if you try to avoid or press F. After that you know where he is... then you ditch a few planes and go in with the rest. Maybe you spend a few "so-called fighter planes". And then you finish him off...

I do that.... only works when you have a divvy in a DD though. BTW also works when you have a divvy in a fat BB... boomboom, broadside, citadel! Most my clanmates play T8... (or T9 and I take a T8 CV) see what happens when you are working together... Hey and also count in, that is including mostly playing weekends. I think we can break 90%...

Yes it is. I have seen some fly around with 2 or 3 planes in a squad. Granted they were losing, but well, I lose 50% of times as well. Well I could do that to ya anytime. Even can drop a Halland with Kaga. However if I screw it up (and I sometimes do) I'll lose all planes and no damage done. Unicums never screw up, and potatoes just can't do anything else.

Yes it should be more like that. It was much more simple to play as well.

Well Kaga is sort of a plane-factory. Also it has a VERY large deck, lots of planes ready to go. Those from Shokek aren't too sturdy either. But usually some of them return. Kaga planes are like kamikaze.

You have explained yourself why a CV doesn't need to go find DDs at the start... Standard method: fly over cap, find red DD that goes there in a straight line (duh), drop fighter behind. Then fly on, find cruiser, hit cruiser, drop the last load at some BB that is behind. Usually that cruiser gets it from the whole team. See. You do not have to look for them, they usually will pop up. But it is better to drop it BEHIND the enemy DD. 1. if you drop it in from of your own, they know he's coming; 2. if you drop it ON TOP of the red DD, planes won;t last long; 3. but if you drop it behind the red DD, he is still spotted, and also cruisers that are coming are spotted. Might be too long...

Well, they'll claim that ships like Viribus Unitis and Dreadnought had no AA in real life either. BUT... Then again they should also make sure half of the torpedoes are duds and 30% of planes have a crash landing... setting the CV on fire. The problem really is, double CVs at T4. And then they buffed some and gave them two torps. OMG. Happy I grinded them when they were still one torp, at least ten showers did the trick.

He can't be omnipresent, he has only 1 squadron. RTS version had multiple. What I think you mean is, there is too much spotting - and I agree to that. CV should not spot for "everyone on the whole team". Just a limited range from the planes. Well... no. If you screw it up badly, you will not have full squads all game long (OK, except for Kaga and such... but those are flimsy planes). Since planes are basically the damage sponge, if you have too little you will not be able to attack ships that have any amount of AA. That means, if you are a crap player you can only attack DDs... (if they are not Halland). It will indeed be reproduced. BTW I have Conqueror... talking about "being reproduced"... But, take Lexington - reproducing a plane takes 60 seconds. That means if you lose all 9 (and you can... meet Halland) it takes 9 minutes. A full game takes 20 minutes. So, to regain them all, say you lose them all after 1 minute (you found Halland...), you can regenerate them... takes half the game though. Besides: it will not solve anything and it is not gonna happen. I have put the results of a "typical" game for me. Compare the plane kills. What would have happened if you could not regenerate planes? I tell you, the other CV would have been a floating piñata. This is the skill gap that still exists. WG wants that to be smaller, so they will not nerf plane-regeneration. Never gonna happen. But look at the example game. That Graf Zeppelin, by the end of the game, he couldn't do anything. No more planes. So yes it sort of works... True. But what happens if you stick around 3 minutes? You'll not get any damage in. Do you know that service cost for Lexington is 75.000 credits? No damage = no XP = no credits. I included screenshots from a battle tonight. Got 126k damage, and <100K credits (if I'd not be running premium account). If I'd be sitting for 3 minutes... might have ended up with zero. That is why a CV cannot fly around "as he likes". He'll run out of credits... at T6 this starts, T8 it is worse, T10 is horrible. I know. I abuse them as spotting planes as well. But I mean, how is the CV gonna defend himself? He only has those planes. Mainly they are long-range defence/attack. I agree though, they should not spot for the team and for the whole map. I know what you mean. But finding a DD that has the AA shut down is not that easy. Note what that means if the CV gets attacked by a DD? He is a free kill. - he will not see the DD coming until it is too late. And then he can't find him. - he cannot spot him either so his friends can't help either. Check this game - who do you think is the most FF-ed by my CV? The DD? Maybe he was. he was competing the cap with my DD (Jutland), so I helped Jutland. He was in smoke too, but he was shooting... so he got spotted by the Jutland. I saved my own DD. Whose fault is it that the Z46 died by CV? Because CV? Or was it because that Z46 was not careful enough? However I could never find that damn Shima. He shot a few fighters, and then he disappeared. It is not just "CV BAD CV BAD" here. There is also good and bad DD players, look at our Jutland. He made 3rd position dammit pretty good in that little boat. In a CV game. Survived. And that Graf Zeppelin WANTED him (19 planes...). IMO there are two problems: - spotting should be limited to a smaller field around the planes. Rest gets minimap. - AA should be fixed and require more player input. It is too predictable due to being automated. --> Notice that whole game I lost only 21 planes. And yes this is pathetic. Most were "spotters" (fighters) too. But it is the difference between somebody who knows what they do and somebody who doesn't. Now count the planes that Graf Zeppelin lost... how about 85... nevertheless, he scored higher than I did. If you count the factor 2 (we won) that means he had more XP than me. He went for the DDs (look where his planes got killed) and I did not. But they lost because their team sucked. We won because my team mid-section was better. It's not that CVs are OP, in that way. But yes they are still broken.

You are correct. The hopes I have is, they actually made a separate mode fort general testing (unlike CV reeework). And it seems they are actually taking some pointers from the testing general public (unlike Reeeework). We'll see how that works out though. But they already announced every class to get some kind of anti-sub-warfare thingy. Means they haven't plugged their ears 100% this time. Might still be 99%...

Can be really good, sometimes it is just like "fart in general direction" though. When I play Iowa, I send RNGesus a shipload of sheep first... seems to help.... a bit.

Ah well. I just spent 3 minutes helping our DD to spot. Got the enemy DD a bit, and so did he. But he had IJN DD, and the enemy was US. No doubt who'd win... I had the enemy DD in the visor, guess what: he rams him... True. However, it is not THAT hard to find out where the CV is. Sums it up, pretty much. Because WG? That shows you play little or no CV yourself. Here's why: 1. Planes ARE already limited, a "non expert" player will run out. They can't farm DDs for free. The problem is more like, any other ship they cannot farm AT ALL which is why they farm DD. However, an "expert player" will just farm everything. Including DDs (which he'll crap on). 2. The problem is not the infinite flight time. The problem is the infinite spotting. A better thing would be to make spotting (or spotting for the team) a consumable, if must. For starters they should make CVs spot like "being in a cyclone". Not for the whole team, just 8km around and rest gets minimap. 3. Best would be if that spotting just went on Minimap. But the problem, if DDs come for the CV. CV can't use his planes right after launch. There is a "deadzone" around the CV. He has to fly out ~5km, then he can start to use planes. Like other ships would not be able to shoot anything closer than 5km. 4. Then how is he gonna find ships anyway. Spotting is supposed to be a CV function. Right now it is already quite useless trying to find a DD. So, think of it. Well unless you are one of those "kill CVs". Then I'd just say "kill DDs" and there won't be any discussion whatsoever.

A separate game mode is not "fine". It can't be anything, as it is, well, separate... But yes they'd better make it fit more than the CV reeework else the game is sort of dead. And I think they know it.

Well yes the nerfs decreased the OP-ness, but they are still broken AF. There is a difference, OP means they are too easy-mode and make too much damage. Now they are still broken, the amount of AVERAGE damage is fixed, but still... too exploitable. Agreed. But if you are a bit over average, they are still too exploitable. That is not the main problem though. The main problem is that even those that the CV is not targeting, are having the caused side-effects. Like, you are on your way to a BB with torps, and you fly over a hapless DD, you do not want him but the whole team gets to shoot him. Another problem is that there is still too much difference between the unicums and the potatoes. You'll always have taters, of course - but... This is made worse because there is always two CVs, when one is potato and the other is not, well... Then there is AA. It is "heavy enough" - just that unicums (and you and me) can easily avoid it. And it does not require player action. That is just dumb, and as a result it is NOT satisfying at all. Even the old "click the squadron" gave at least some sense of achievement. Yes, I agree that WG seems to have learned from that. At least they didn't dump it on the general server. Now we'll see how much they have learned. IMO the main thing is that 6.0m "cheese" and not having to surface. If they do it right, it might even GET BETTER. I say make CVs choose, get rockets or depthcharges. Lots of CVs will choose depthcharges. I know I would. That would relieve DDs a bit, also CV would then be needed for the team. ... if they make the necessary changes, yes. I do not have full faith in that yet. He's just a bit too positive... but he seems to enjoy the game. That is a positive attitude, which is better than can be said for most. It is a GAME, if you do not enjoy it, why play it?

Suck it up Buttercup. I think you'll appreciate Conqkek, bet you'll find great use for it. Don't use it as a backspamming HE-slinger and I'm sure you'll like it. Nothing like the tears from a blapped BB when you have managed to flank him with Conqkek and give him a full broadside. You'll need to start that sheepfarm RIGHT NOW though, because with Conqkek, RNGesus will be very very greedy.

I actually once detonated an Algerie with one HE bomb from Ark Royal... With torpedo I have detonated quite a lot of BBs, they never take that flag, probably. If the secondaries from Massa can pen Aki then yes maybe you could.

I am quite proficient in CVs, if I want... don't worry. I regularly do 100K+ in a T6CV, and I'll pull a win if anyway possible. My average sucks though because I can't prevent ROFLSTOMP, usually. I'm no El2 by a looong shot but I will usually outperform the other CV. Ah, and I do not go for the backspammers, that was just an example. I know they'll be there in the end still 100% HP ready for me to farm. But if I am with a divvy I am happy to share. Check stats, it shows it too. Around 50% or so usually solo (well that's weekend...) and when divving up upto 70% WR. Mind that so far I have grinded most CVs, just for the grind - not really "actively playing" them so it is probably not the most I can get from them. Also I'll do crap like going through the middle on Two Brothers (killed 3...), or I'm going capping, in a CV... Probably not good, this is a game, and it should be a bit of FUN, too. Capping in a CV, screw King George...: (I'm sure El2 or you would have won though, well I'm not THAT good).

Well, when your stats were still visible I saw you were about same level as me. You and me can delete BBs and cruisers because we know how to handle AA, and we hit stuff because we know how to aim. Even if we're waayyyyyy of from the likes of El2 & co, we'll usually manage to outperform the average red CV. As far as DDs go, well, I consider them influential but will not go especially after them. (I'll hunt them if they get too annoying though). Also, if it is a Halland, well I can get him. But do I have to? It is not always the CV that needs to do those jobs... radar cruisers, that stuff? They all went reeee reeee to get those kind of DDs now let them deal with them too, I say. Meanwhile I'll harvest myself an out-of-reach-for-them backspamming Currywurst or Conqueror. Yummie. I don;t need premium to break even on CVs, sometimes I lose a bit in T10 and sometimes I win a bit. Main thing what ff-s me up there is those ROFLSTOMPS. Win or lose, you can't do much damage. Also I think DDs are usually doing a fine job, and deserve more support. Mainly the're getting shafted by the spotting. Spotting at 2.5km or whatever won't help, what WILL help is if spotting is limited to the CV and whatever ships are around AT A LIMIT. The rest of the team gets minimap. That way the DD, once spotted, only has to deal with ships NEAR and not the whole FF-ing team. It would be simple fix for WG to do that, and they can vary the range - like in "cyclone". Say a DD gets 5km when spotted, a cruiser 8, BB gets 10. I'm more focused on killing cruisers that are after my DD than after the red DDs TBH.

Basically, in a T10CV you need well over 50k damage on a win to break even. That's not counting flags, premium account. But on a loss... 100K damage won't cut the cake. T8s are not much better, which is why DDs get hunted. They deliver the most (and easiest) XP. Also they are the easiest target (least AA), so for most CVs in higher tiers (when they are potato) that is the only ship they can farm.

I actually think if WG pays attention and changes the stuff that is wrong with them, they might BALANCE the game a bit. And yes they'll make it more fun for DDs as well. But... not having my hopes up as I have seen CV Reeework. Which is actually fixable IMO, but well. We'll see. And @Beastofwar is right, either adapt or become extinct. That is, until WG buggers it up so badly the whole game becomes extinct!