BLUB__BLUB

Ice, mate. A whole, totally flat, sea of ice.

Seems to me you're quite "crafty", you'd probably beat my behind unless I was with buddies (which I usually am though).

Well even in Parsefal a Shima is a nice snack, really. I play ~30/30/30 CV/BB/CL and the rest DD. But even I know what is good to do in a DD and what is kinda useless. Yes he'd be useful if he spotted the other ships from the rear and gave them surprise buttshags. But usually those do not dare... suppose the spotted ships go hunt him. Well Mino might have radar (usually smoke) but the others haven't. I got a T8 Silliwangi from a container (well what the heck... ) and I hardly know what to do with it. It has puny DPS, deepwatertorps and a detection range compared to a fat cruiser. However it does have smoke and hydro. But I dare say I'm more useful... and I am a total and utter N00b with DDs. I'll snack on other DDs if I can, though. CVs usually will not catch me. I play them myself and I know what they do...

Most of those DDs are useless though, but the likes of @LoveZeppelin manage to do it as "just one of the tasks". Mind I usually don;t get killed, I have managed to kill 2 DDs -AND- a cruiser that came for me, and half the BB. Granted they were kinda dumb and came at me one-by-one.... That's not the only way you can get killed in a CV though. When a smartypants DD just lights me up by spotting, and lets his BB divvy do the rest... Also, when I get uptiered in a T6 CV and get total-fluffed-T8-MM, well, the enemy CV might just turn out to be the most tasty snack. Also, when you have Manfred and the reds have Roosevelt...

CV cannot defend themselves, at least not very well. Because: ...and you'll have a +1 from me when you get my pelt. There's many players who do not understand what the weak spot of a CV is. And this is what it is. A CV player is busy on the map elsewhere. This is where he is vulnerable. Same as a straight-lining BB, he deserves a torpedo. And same [edited]that BB, if he is not straightlining (AKA he notices the DD) it is a good fight. At least to some extent, well yeah that is "balanz comrade" which I think sux because those fights are usually the biggest fun.

Yeah well if there is nobody around... but then it would be a matter of making the dive slower. As they still do not HAVE TO and it is only by choice (or stupidity). As an alternative we could have obligatory autopilot just like CV (stupidity guaranteed). Well that would need change then. Operating depth should be periscope, at least at T6.

Yes. But that's not really balance. It is equalising the damage, for example you could have a 99% hit mechanic, and to "balanz" that vs something that does 50% you'd need 1% damage from that one doing 50%. Now, is that still a game-mechanic, or is it just like "a slowly diminishing HP bar whatever you do". Which seems the way CVs work... if you have a good CV player. Well, the first balance is: - will the delivery take place (BB 100%, those shells will fly, CV depending on player- will he lose all the planes; The second balance is: - how many will hit. That is dispersion, aiming-reticule/hit-area vs skill of the player. You'll get more shots than you get plane drops, usually. Well maybe not, as to shoot it the target needs to be visible. CVs don't need targets to be visible, they'll MAKE THEM visible. But the thing is indeed, how many of that ammo will arrive at the "destination". But eh, then we have that "zillion rocket salvo". Which we could consider "one bomb having average so-and-so". Yes, and there is the actual problem. But here's the thing. Look at his starts and see how he does in other ships. And then you will find that he matches WR and all that, and he is only (sometimes!!) a bit better with CVs. I mean, WR in Fat Freddy - still almost 70%. C'mon. You could give him a floating wheelbarrow and he'd still kill off two Montanas. But yes, you'd balance the average amount of MAXIMUM damage on guys like him, because you can be sure they make the max out of any ship. But only after you have balanced the MECHANICS. I'm quite sure we agree that CVs are broken AF and that mechanics are absolutely unbalanced. It is not really impossible. Because what do we want, we want "less chance of full damage". And, as you say the citadel of the ship, as seen from above is MUCH wider than the same citadel seen from a surface ship. Simply put, this can be made more difficult. Beams across the deck, cranes, AA mounts, lifeboats, everything - can cause "premature detonation". Which would do a lot less damage than a citadel hit. I think, partly they do as we get overpens and shatters (on turrets), too. That "window" should be narrowed and extended as necessary. Maybe to the point that an AP bomb would do NOTHING except leave a dent, or on the other end do nothing but slam a hole in the bottom and give flooding. Also - there is a factor of which I am not sure if WG calculates it. I am sure they calculate height, but do they also calculate drop-angle SPEED? if you come in at 250kts, dropping a bomb on a flat object (ship deck), for sure the hit-angle is not going to be 90 degrees. So... if you speed your ship towards the planes - could it not be that you add "speed angle", enough to bounce? Or, if you steer/swerve, you'd have the ship lean over. I know for a fact that if I do that with Conqkek it is REALLY hard to hit the citadel. At least from the outside of that curve, on the ind side the citadel gets lifted out of the water. And here is: Now, what if we make "ship angle speed" count twice, or whatever, on that drop-angle? Maybe "just dodge" would then actually work?

Exactly. It is the DELIVERY of the stuff, not the stuff itself. Kürfürst shells do 12.700 damage each, but I'd hardly call it OP. However these AP-bombs are just too easy to deliver. Even if the reload of GK is 29 sec and the usual flight time of planes is more. You can just hit more of the "vital parts" with them in a similar timeframe. Like pressing a "death" button. Less damage will not make it better. Harder to press buttons will.

Well they'll also crap downwards once we get subs.

Used to be some working of DEF AA.... gave RNGesus the upper hand.

It is possible, if you are good and the sub is a tater. You need to keep speed up, have a general idea where the torps are coming from. The difficult thing though is if they fire from very close. Because the subs do not have to go surface or periscope depth. You can still avoid the torps... but not forever. And THEY have "forever" as they don't have to surface. And yes then you can send in the airstrike (which is brilliant, IMO...). But... what if you don't know where he is... Most important: see above, If subs do NOT EVER have to surface, they will not. You have fixed the "6.0m cheesing", which is excellent, but now they just do not surface at all...

Well if you throw enoughsh... on the wall.... But it is more the main guns that have derp dispersion on the GK.

Yes, it has some "delivery problems".... not that it cannot hit hard enough.

Well, not to that cruiser. But it's all relative. I get halved all the time in any tier, because of BB HE. How about dropping it to zero in one blap, then? Damage taken or dealt "too much or too little" is about balance. The one vs the other = balance. THAT is something we agree on, however I'd still call it "a delivery problem". There are so many things on top of a ship that would detonate a bomb. Citadel pens should be much less common. Complete superstructure blown off, yes. And indeed, it is too easy to hit from above. THAT is, IMO, the problem. Decreasing the max damage is not the answer. It would be a dumbing-down mechanic. Making it easier to dodge is much better. How about calculating the vector of movement? Or how about making them explode on impact (as they should)? In fact there is very little "exposed citadel" from above as well. Eh well, unless you take Izumo and such. I think it would be a better idea to limit the spotting of CVs to 8km around the planes or so. most damage to "softer"ships is done not by the CV but by their teammates. Balancing "by average" (AKA those bombs are too powerful) is same as "stats say you are having fun". I'll not support it. Look at how they nerfed max damage from Hakuryu AP-bombs, and then increased the hit chance. Duh. Because, WG believes that the damage needs to be averaged. So, having fun yet?

No, you compare it to 9 Yamato shell = 9x 14.800. Now THAT is damage. But the delivery is a bit different. It is not the bombs that are OP. CVs are broken. What would you suggest, halve the damage on AP bombs? I'd say make the chance of ricoshet bigger, make ships have to do less to angleor whatever. If you say "just dodge" then make the dodging easier. It is easier to dodge Yamato than a CV. THAT is the actual problem. What you guys are doing now is the WG method. "stats show average damage is not greater than BB, muh, spreadsheet says balanz".

It's still "chipping damage". ONE shell from Yamato in the citadel does 14.800. It can pump out 9 per 30 sec or so. No way you get that in a CV. But it is the way they get delivered. And yes that is decided by the captain.

Well I'm not getting it, so far... learning to deliver. Not everyone can do it. Yet. And that is really the reason. If you manage to deliver them every time and all the time... but if you do not and RNGesus refuses your sheep, well, no such damage. Nope, it is due to the delivery. When I learn to "deliver better" I'll get more damage as well. It's not like I am dropping different bombs than you.

The problem is they are too much IN control. Delivery on time, every time. But HE BB shells on a cruiser aren't exactly nice either. DD torps on cruiser... I agree the damage as a result is too much, but not due to the damage-power of the AP bombs. It is because those ships are just too vulnerable. Less pen, or more deflection would be a good thing. Also, stuff like "Halland AA" is a good idea IMO. However nerfing the max damage is not a good idea. Seems some want it to be nerfed so much they just wanna sail on and don't give a damn.

Yes, that is due to the "delivery to your door guaranteed every time". Yes --> "delivery to your door guaranteed every time". It's not the bombs that are the problem. CVs are just broken.

Yes that is the POSSIBLE damage. But you'll not get it, usually. Not by a loooong shot. There's some that you cannot pen at all (or so it seems, yes looking at YOU, Petro...). Compared to a BB blowing up a complete cruiser... or Stalingrad two-shotting a BB... ...even that 15-20K is chip damage. It has to be though, due to the way of "delivery to your door guaranteed every time".

Well I have lots of "first blood" achievements when I am in a BB, too. Never got me an unspotted surprise one so far though.

Yes, but compared to a BB it is not that much. Which is why @Beastofwar is correct: CVs do chip-damage, compared to some others. However... they chip A LOT. And sort of unavoidable (eh... just dodge...").

I think i have the worst one. Just started the match, some red dude fired his guns at a spotted BB next to my Dallas. That BB had just fired his guns at the start of the match, probably thinking "YOLO HERE I AM". I wasn't spotted but got detonated anyway, done within one minute or so. Have seen it happen to others as well.

The amount of citadels is a bit irrelevant, as such. With rockets you can get 8 citadels and the ship is still not dead. Max rocket damage (= citadel hit) is 3100. So, to take down a Salem (50K) you'll need 16 citadels. With 12 rockets per attack (3 planes, 4 rockets) even if you hit them ALL it can't be done in one dive. And if he angles (yes, enemy quality DOES matter) you'll not get a single citadel.

This isn't true. He clearly accepts that CVs are broken. The question was, are their AP-bombs overpowered. It is not the BOMBS that are OP. It is the fact that CVs are broken, giving them opportunity to drop those bombs on what/whenever they like. And here you can clearly see another problem with CVs. Spotting for others. They should remove that for the largest part to fix CVs. They'll still be broken, though. But at least there will not be half the reds shooting you when you are under attack from the CV. The next step would be to make AA "effective when used with some degree of skill". Instead of automated BS. CV's will remain broken in the way that an attacked ship cannot retaliate - same as being torped by an unspotted DD, but worse. That DD cannot correct-steer his torps at the last moment... ah well... maybe that is why we get subs with guided torps... soon(TM). I agree almost completely with what he put here: But are those AP-bombs OP? Try getting BLAPPED by a BB at 20km. And that is why AP bombs are nerfed... because the only way to "balanz" CVs is to make them do chip-damage. Which is what they do. Then again AP bombs on a CV..... well... I think it's kinda sick and I even play them, too.