Yosha_AtaIante

since you edited I have to answer this differently Why should I go for a sub that has supoort? I can just ignore him, go around him and torp his team. Not only am I faster but he also can not risk to block my path. He also should be at a location where he can attack my team. So if I find a sub in a position I have no supoort in then he is literally doing nothing because me having no supoort means he has no targets. So you are describing a deliberate throw of my ship to be performed. Obviously no one would go for that and no sub will be in such a useless position.

Uhm no because you just defeated yourself. Just because I can devstrike a cruiser in a BB if he makes a positional mistake or goes broadside doesn't mean that outside of such cruisers are OP? You are literally asking me to possibly do unreasonable moves. The sub didn't know I was coming until the planes spotted me for a short time. He didn't make a mistake I just predicted his path well. his last spotted position was south of B. That was around 4min ago. So I deducted his position through prediction. Its not something he could have prevented unless he kept in his own spawn where he would be useless. Now tell me why should I actively hunt him in his spawn?Would you overextended with your BB into the enemy spawn following a kiting cruiser with better concealment than your BB just because you could kill him? so you don't make any sense. You said I should do this more often. I will and I will upload the clip and post it here tagging you. And it will always be me being one step ahead of the sub because I know how they work, where they will likely go before they know it. The engagement will always happen in my control

WG doesn't even need to do that, they can do pretty much what they want. prove it please? you provided no proof for this accusation besides your own speculations. Basically your post is just meaningless honestly. It's just another conspiracy

I do this pretty much effortlessly whenever I find a reasonable chance like here.

I guess sunleader just got a flawless victory with that post. Not only showing that opposing party is purposefully manipulating evidence by not showing it fully but that they cant even make a functional world of lies on their own without it falling apart instantly. Can't wait for the next contender to try or maybe AndyHill doesn't understand that he has been done in and needs additional explanation?

You are done in this discussion it seems. Sunleader explained your fallacies perfectly and it seems you can't pick up on it. The burden of proof is on you. And until now you haven't provided anything but accusations and baseless claims.

I still can't believe that you guys expect that WG dances after your demands and calling out the apparent hubris of WG. It's so laughable. I wonder what comes next? Another "Wallets closed for good" threat?

Yes you can. You can also tell us that the sky is always red. Has little value though. We just recently had the talk about this. Now you wish for people to shut up again. Do you disagree with his assessment that the Forum is an insignificant minority? If so then simply disagree with him. He is writing essays because he needs to explain in detail why the believe that the forums opinions has any importance to WG is false. I mean you don't need to agree but he is right. We also already talked about this. I agreed with you on many points, why mention them again? Saying the same thing again and again doesn't make them be fixed? 3 Years of testing lead to this submarine product we have now. WG already stated that they think subs are ok as they are. You and I simply don't have many options. It's either continue playing or move on to a different game. I personally don't care and continue playing and I even play subs to understand how they work and how to use them perfectly, imagine that. If you can't see yourself playing this game any more because of CVs and Subs the only right move is to quit. WG won't die if your money isn't coming in anymore

It's the same as people who claim they got chatbanned even though they don't use chat. Sadly those same people never provide replays and only get embarrassed after WG staff outs them via chatlogs. It probably can't happen for this described issue here but if it doesn't ever trigger for me or the friends I division with then it pretty much can't happen unless user error. Simple. In my clan there hasn't been anyone moaning about it either yet so it simply doesn't happen often enough to be relevant.

In not one of those games did I have a problem that any other here described they have. Guess why? I don't alt tab for longer than 10seconds and actually play all my battles without interruption.

I'm sorry but you can't compare that because here you can't "vote". WG does not need to do what either the guys who love or who hate the game think. In politics the party that gets elected is in power. This is completely different.

This is all just assumptions and speculation and quite baseless on top. Also silence is usually a form of being happy with the circumstances. Majority of my customers are also barely saying much. I get one or two people who tell me about something they don't like however I have literally hundreds of others who always come to my service. Why should I listen to this "vocal majority" if no one else complains?

They are playing their game.

I think WG knows but they are seeing different effects than you do. It might be that they know a little more and that they actually have success with it. As we already established, we have to see the player numbers development over the next year to see how all the events + submarine events truly affected the game.

you have to wait for everything go settle including Christmas season being over before judging if the game is truly dying. You can't just disregard the political events that lead to the server merge either. Many people are affected im some way who probably would otherwise play. If WG is keeping calm about this then there is no reason for any of us to make a fuss

I believe I have all I want so I don't really care

it will continue because of black Friday and Christmas. But it will drop afterwards again

if every battle was like that then you wouldn't be able to keep your winrate. Stop your selection bias please.

They can still eventually release some of the real ships as premium. Probably their plan anyway as then people interested in historical accuracy will pay.

Because you aren't the developer, they are. And the models for the ships in the dev blog are finished. Its their game and their decision. You can be disappointed all you want about it but it is what it is

Since when does WG need to act in proposals?

I don't think it works that way. Im sure WG knows what the forum doesn't like about subs. Winning or losing arguments on here doesn't shift WGs opinion at all either. In the end they have the data, their polls and the battle counts. Only they know and until they don't release it we will never know the complete truth. I think your views are fine and valid. DCP trigger is annoying. It happens when you really don't need it to happen and sometimes you are in a bad spot to evade homing torps it just shafts you instantly both ways. Its horrible I also don't agree on shotgunning and how it works, they need to find a solution that keeps torps against subs effective at all distances but ineffective above 3km for surface ships. I agree that all ships (maybe not DDs) need access to planes. If DDs had them honestly sub play would be impossible. We need to consider them as part of the game so we can not suggest something that makes them outright pointless. But cruisers like Venezia and Hindenburg need planes instead of on board nonsense same as Dutch cruisers. I agree in the CV thing. I as a CV main would rather have control over the charges myself. You see? There are quite a lot of things we agree on. But we need to be realistic and not always angry at WG. Staying constructive in our views and criticism will at least make them want to read our exchanges. I know its upsetting. But being upset doesn't change power dynamics. And WG is ultimately the one who decides how they kill their game and if they truly kill it with subs then all we can do is watch.

many times

these points are notn brought up in defense of subs. I also agree that subs are in a broken state. But the forum is consisting of mostly biased individuals who are so anti sub that having a talk without many of them instantly talking you down, downvoting you or calling you a shill (you are not doing that please don't attribute this to yourself) which is making actual discussions to be had impossible or rather unbearable. Players like sunleader and me are arguing why the subs seem to be played much, why the notion of then being universally hated might be wrong. We are not saying that subs are fine and loved. We are observing the situation from multiple angles and going into detail but as soon as such a post hits its outright dismissed. No one bothers to engage with the observations and that is the issue. Therefore we need to work with people who barely put much into their posts and explain to them the more complicated workings. Its why we had to take so long and I'm happy that you agree now after hearing the dislike explanation that it can't really be used much to make either statement look factually true to come to a mutual understanding. The point is to have a nice talk with each other. I dont want to antagonize you and I want you to talk with us openly. If you dont feel like it you don't need to engage. But please don't tell others to shut up. Its quite disrespectful. I also tolerate your opinions on subs. But I will use my rights to tell you why I disagree and try to offer a different view or correction based on views you might not have considered yet.