Yosha_AtaIante

why care about time spent if the game is fun? If it's not fun why play the game?

more like this forum being a bunch of people who believe they have any say in the game development condemning WG for years without anything being done with their suggestions Yet they still feel they have any say

what's the problem? it's the same as randoms it seems? nothing unusual

just spend money if you really want to always respec? As the mod pointed out, this is restricted for you to either train more commanders to increase the (very easy) grind or for you to spend money. Doubloons are better to use for retraining as its cheaper than FXP. If you can't see yourself paying money to this company however because you dislike what they do but feel entitled for them to change the game around non paying customers... I don't think I need to say more

natural progression of the game and freshening up monetization opportunities. Nothing new, most game companies do it. If you don't like it don't play it. Plenty good games out right now.

You screwed up your game with mods dude. remove them and install only the ones really needed. I'm a CV main and I can't tell what the hell is going on.

I don't see issues. It's not deep enough to cause any pressure related issues. Early cold war subs could already fire torpedoes below 200m and in wows we aren't even below 70m. However it still needs to be changed for the sake of balance

what? Stalin AA is already weak

I know :D

I've been telling this for years but only ever get downvotes :(

If you want I can help you understand how to reliably do that (with CVs of course) Especially super CV/Nakhi/German CVs are easy targets :D (you will be crippled on plane reserves however for rest of the game) You can make CV players super mad that way. I remember when I sniped a SU enterprise player with Graf Zeppelin, he didnt take it well

did you know WG has an official discord with a section where many people discuss in real time and answer questions very fast? That might be a good place for you since you seem to like talking about the game a lot https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://discord.com/invite/wows&ved=2ahUKEwiDw_P3qYT3AhUtg_0HHW1kB44QFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1jPpngUX5Pw5weijVUPDS2

Windowlickers will always perform badly and you can already pretty much deny them with Bearn / enterprise fighter build right now. It's already working. What is also pretty is is CV sniping for example Haku vs Nakhi is easy as you can vita Nakhi with ap bombs. Midway vs Nakhi /German CV is easy as they don't have armored decks. There are already plenty of ways to completely shut off a CV (unless he is a very rare SU) If Support CVs have advanced fighters and then get matched against strike CVs then it's only fair for them to be able to make the life of strike CVs miserable. And you know how it is. Why should WG nerf support CVs? It's not that easy to effectively place fighters as you have to understand the thought process of the targeted CV player. So I doubt the avg pepega will be able to play Support CVs good enough for WG to warrant a nerf. The strike CV players already play way to badly themself. Overall I doubt super CVs will have much of an influence as there are to little people who understand how to place fighters in the first place. So someone like me who then does it better than others is not enough to warrant a nerf :D And I doubt el2a will play support CVs. I also doubt I would be able to stop him as he knows how easy it is to ignore fighters. But I'm not here to compete with support CVs. I'm here to play them for possibly "fun" especially if it's released with the CV im waiting for in t6, which is the former T5 CV Zuiho

it actually isn't. I'm looking foward to denying the enemy CV with fighter planes similiar to Bearn and drop interesting smokescreens for allies from above to give them an edge (if it works that way) especially in divs. I want to be that guy that ruins the fun of "strike" CVs by utterly denying them damage :D

he's getting there. BLUB is becoming one of us forever

Hello Forum. Inspired by @Nagine s topic which is sadly not taken all to seriously I decided to create this one as it will cover my thought's of what might be necessary to get submarines more in line with the current gameplay. I said in the other topic that I would need to play more games in subs first but decided after a few tests in training room and information received from El2aZer that they are currently broken and not as careful of an evaluation as I at first thought. So Let me begin summarizing my personal ideas. First, why do I think I would be qualified to give any suggestions? I played more than 200 battles with submarines after they were introduced into randoms with an average win-rate of around 65% between all tiers. At the same time I tested torp / homing torp interaction with - against all classes in training room and in the battles in which I played surface ships against subs I gained extensive experience with good success against submarines and consistent results against them. 1, Survive-ability and Diveduration - depletion and Submarine speed Health Submarines gained a lot of health since the last testing. This needs to be reduced by at least 25% again. It has been a good move but overdone. In the previous test when a submarine got spotted and if in the wrong spot at that time it could get oneshot by depth charge drops from all over the place and we have all seen pictures of the minimap littered with anti sub planes as soon as one got spotted completely devastating it. While this is fun for many players who really dislike submarines it clearly produced the need for WG to buff the subs health and well... they overdid it. It is very difficult now to kill a submarine and even with precise drops of a DD which is really hard to achieve in random battle conditions they might still survive and get away or even retaliate. A submarine that receives a precise drop of depth charges by a DD player deserves to be sunk and therefore less health is needed. Depth charges The aoe effective range of depth charges has been increased, however the further away the submarine is from the shock-wave, even when hit it happens to do no(little damage. It creates a permaflood and oil to appear on the surface but the oil is barely trackable for ships without antisub planes and the flooding damage is very low and easily ignored. So I propose to increase the alpha of all anti sub armaments by at least 20%, increase the flood duration and remove the damage reduction by distance in relation to the shock-wave. A successful hit with those planes is not easy. A battleship or even cruiser has to worry about more things than suddenly in the middle of a battle to switch to a whole other view (planes), correctly track and lead the submarine, predict it's movements only to be rewarded with little or no damage done with barely any inconvenience for the submarine. Increase the frequency of oil slicks appearing on the water surface to make it easier to track the subs movement. Let every cruiser have access to anti submarine planes. It is impossible to counteract a submarine that happens to be on the part of the map with mostly light cruiser presence and for some reasons even some heavy cruisers LACK anti sub planes. This is not balanced or acceptable as those flanks are completely helpless and in the mercy of the sub players mistakes. I noticed that especially in parts of the map where there was a heavy presence of cruisers who had no planes available that in a submarine I had most of the control and scare away the whole enemy into retreating positions all by myself and my presence allowing my team to comfortably get the cap and map control and with that alone win the game. Despite me doing little damage against these running and kiting ships the game was decided by that move alone and that is simply because the risk of these cruisers trying to spot/locate and sail over my position to drop depth charges wasn't just a risk, it was a suicide move with little accomplished. I wanted to add the suggestion that even DDs should be able to use anti sub planes but I decided against it as it would saturate the map with planes outside of their original purpose as they are sadly used already by players who probably don't understand the meaning of those planes I guess. Battery duration/ depletion and Submarine speed/detection The battery life of submarines has been reduced significantly and balanced out by increasing the recharge rate and decreasing the loss of battery life under certain conditions like the sub being spotted while under water causes the subs battery to drain faster. I feel this completely missed the point of how it could work much smoother and make it more fair for surface ships to get submarines to surface or even prevent them from surfacing and diving instantly. This will be a lengthy explanation. Increase the battery duration back to old levels (around 10 minutes for t10 subs with specific modules / captain skills) BUT change this: Submarines before attempting to dive need at least 10 seconds of preparation time. This will make it more risky and difficult for subs to make shotgun attacks against enemy ships as it increases their risk of remaining in active Hydro/radar or under CV plane spotting. Submarines can not simply dive on a whim, they need to fill their ballast tanks with water to decrease buoyancy to make them sink smoothly. This needs to be represented in the game NOT for historical reasons but for balance reasons. As it currently is is that subs can dive way to easy as soon as they are spotted or in danger easily escaping it. A 10 second preparation timer increases the risk and punishes careless submarines as it should be. During these 10 seconds it is possible for main guns of surface ships to significantly damage the submarine and to make following plane strikes more accurate. This is only fair as we give the submarines the ability to stay underwater for longer back. Submarines are subs and should stay submerged for most of the battle and not as they currently are alternating between surfaced and diving like a dolphin literally dodging shells/planes and depthcharges easily. Submarines speed in t6 and t8 both on surface and underwater is fine. I will not ask for changes to those submarines speed but in this section I will give suggestions on how to make submarines more easily detectable depending on their speed and in-cooperate solution of dive depletion! I will use t10 submarines as an example and the developers should be able to relate this back down the tiers accordingly. DDs and light cruisers should get the passive "trait/ability" to detect submarines via passive sonar. Submarines in WW2 if running on their Diesel engines were absurdly loud. There is not a chance those submarines were not heard. One could argue that it's only natural with all the battle noises around to not hear submarines but this game is not supposed to be historical for balance reasons and never will be so while we should try to keep some resemblance here it is necessary for balance reasons to make DDs and light cruisers able to detect those submarines! Here is how this should work in my opinion to make it fair for both lightcruiser/DDs and submarines but significantly more difficult for the latter. If a t10 submarine goes at full speed (in t10 this is around 30kts+ under water) they will automatically get picked up by DDs / light cruisers passive sonar in a 6km radius around them (varying according to different nations and subs if you will), not detected by shown on the minimap similar to how radar works. Make it so the submarine is shown precisely on the minimap for 10~ seconds before it is fully revealed if it keeps the speed up. However make it so the submarine can stop this from happening by slowing down to half speed. If the submarine reaches half speed before the detection timer of 10seconds is completed then it will escape detection! If the submarine however has been picked up before reaching half speed the submarine CAN NOT escape detection without leaving the 6km detection zone or using a potential new consumeable called "silent running" which completely stops the submarine for around 30 seconds but prevents any detection methods from picking it up. It also stuns the submarine for that duration making it blind, unable to ping, fire torps or use consumeables. This will significantly improve the ability of surface ships to detect and counter the usually fast submarines under water and make subs play more carefully as they can't risk going half speed for most of the game. Remember, 10 minutes of dive time at 30kts is effectively only 5minutes at 15kts of travel distance! Submarines can not outrun DDs anymore with this and even lightcruises can catch up to them! Now to top it of... remove the assured hydro detection of submarines within 2km distance in favor of Hydro picking up any sub going faster than 1/4 speed in it's vicinity. For balance reasons hydro needs to be treated the same way as explained above. Detect the submarine on the minimap first for 10seconds and give it a chance to slow down/escape detection. This will effectively hinder the submarines movements quite a bit and remember it won't be able to surface or go fast meaning it loses battery life while not really being able to accomplish much. A hydro with this gains much more worth against subs and makes it far easier to keep them predictable and in check. Submarines maneuverability should affect battery depletion! This is something I really would like to see happen as it will greatly alter how the submarine maneuvers under water and affect how much it can spam to surface/dive. While underwater the submarine uses electric engines to run silently and can not engage their diesel because of detection reasons. However depending on their speed and maneuvers and force required to do them the battery depletion should increase. We need to however give subs an alternative, battery saving but less efficient way to maneuver under water too to counteract this. So make it like the following: Tapping "F" for rising begins pumping out the ballast to increase buoyancy making the submarine rise slowly. Tapping it twice in a row quickly engages the rudders too which should increase the battery consumption by 1 per second until the move is complete. Tapping "C" for diving should pump more water into the ballast to decrease buoyancy making it sink slowly. Tapping it twice in a row quickly engages the rudders too " " "With this a submarine player can't just dive up and down as he pleases without a tradeoff and this also directly counteracts the increased battery life. Fair right? The same thing for speed. Make submarines who go full speed under water engage more battery power increasing the battery depletion by 0.5 per second. There are captain skills available which a player can choose to decrease these additional costs so I think it's very reasonable to ask submarines to pay a price for being swift underwater while not under Hydro/passive sonar. It helps prevent situations where in late game a single sub player just stays underwater for 3minutes wasting everyone's time. The less efficient option in this case and battery saving option would be simply by going 3/4 speed. 3/4 speed should not use additional battery life and makes it easier for subs to reach 1/2 speed if detected by passive sonar/ hydro 2, Pings, torps and homing So I'm nearly done now. Let's quickly talk about pings. Pings should continue working as they currently do. With all the changes I asked for above the pings become much more reasonable and fair as there is now plenty to make life for subs much more difficult. However the homing needs to change in one way only, let me elaborate before you tell me how OP it is supposed to be and I agree, it is OP but only against one ship and that is DDs. The homing torps track way to well on DDs. It's next to impossible to escape homing torpedoes if you don't either run straight away and turn at the very last second or go straight towards the torp and again, turn at the very last second. I tested dodging these torps in training room against BOT submarines, especially against Balao class and i needed to play my DD in a very particular way to not get obliterated by these torps. Even if I managed to reach the submarine and release depth charges once I got "behind" the submarine and tried to turn and follow it the back launchers simply oneshot me as these torps just home in way to well. So its practically impossible to engage these subs in a training room where there is only me and the submarine. Now imagine this scenario in random battles with the submarines team actively shooting the DD player on top of homing torpedos. It needs to be fixed. How much the homing needs to be decreased to I can't tell, this is the developers job but DDs are supposed to counter submarines more effectively and it's practically impossible to imagine this happening in random battles in their current homing state. I managed to kill multiple subs with precise depth charge drops against careless sub players in randoms however that involved said players to not pay attention / be unfamiliar. A bot however who has undivided attention for me showed me how little was possible for a DD in such a scenario where the DD should be the one having the upper hand. The homing against cruisers and BBs seems fair. Those are and should be the intended targets for submarines. I have tested dodging torps in both those classes and it's easily doable by both kiting away, turning away, charging in and turning. Stationary ships should be punished by those torps by remaining still for to long. But while maneuvering it's most times very easy to dodge the homing torps which are easily spotted so no changes need to be applied. Shotgunning with the changes I suggested above will also not be a thing anymore so we don't need to talk about this. And with this I reached the end of my suggestions for now. Again thanks to @Nagine for inspiring me to make this topic and share my suggestions. Now I don't say it it can only work this way or that this must be the true solution. It's what I believe would help make subs fit into the game more and make it more fair for their intended counters to be able to actually effectively counter them. Submarines obviously "underperform" because the playerbase already struggles to make OP carriers work on average so buffing them is NOT the way foward. At the moment the skill ceiling is once again massive and the ceiling for some players is as far away as the sun in relation to earth it seems. We need to make it so submarines are hard but rewarding to play and fair for other classes too. I believe my above changes make it still possible to excel in subs for skilled individuals as they do in other ship classes while not making it impossible to counter subs by applying realistic and fair restrictions to submarines allowing the natural flow of the game as it currently is to continue. Thank you for reading and your patience

Always wait before spending as to get exactly what you'd like to get. as an example I have over 100 premium ships sitting around at this point 90% of which I'm not even playing anymore. Make sure to wait for something you think youd really like. Easter usually comes with special offers so check them out next week

players are already crying about having to use depth charge strikes in the middle of the battle to attack submarines and how much it puts them out of their flownow imagine how disturbing manually firing their AA would be for them.

it removes game breaking bugs like torpedo planes being completely immune to Flak while doing an attack run for example? and it makes the rocket rework happen. And the upcoming spotting changes....

probably the dark souls players who expect their invaders to bow and fight the honorabu way otherwise they disconnect

Reach much dude. I actually want RTS back to be able to play my favorite ship the same way I used to back then. Now I'm eagerly waiting for support CVs because that's the only way she'll be playable again. So get lost with your nonsense accusations. If you actually ever cared about understanding my or other CV players motivations then you wouldn't spout so much nonsense

Just practice using it correctly. I barely have the problems you describe.

Who is telling you this nonsense?

Yep, lets invent more "bugs' to use as excuses for bad aim.

You understand nothing. You don't research it properly and don't play. They changed quite a bit. Subs are still powerful but way less so for the average player after the changes they made. Obviously they can't fix subs instantly just like that and they tell you that in every single dev blog that none of these tests is the last one. It takes time and they told us from the start that they will tweak them for longer before final release to not create the same problems that CV rework created after launch. So far they are doing exactly that. You can of course continue to deny all this I don't really care anymore.