Andrewbassg

You are missing the point. Dis ain't mimimi. I'm trying to help. Tho indeed personally I consider spotting to be the most toxic element of the reeework. But I'm not alone.

Honest to God I'm just proportional. Tho yes... Except those ships are not "protected" and also have to take risks, so......no.

Which just further underlines how limiting and damaging this class gameplay wise is.....

Well....let's just say that i live in a country with shore on the Black Sea.....

Holy....... I just read the news.

I didn't have the flag mounted :) Sorry I forgot.:) Now, more seriously a bit, the problem actually is that you keep confounding planes with the Cv. Planes represent the VC's erm.....Cv' s actions and to a certain limited.....conditional extent, they can be countered. But those two are not the same thing, so when you say "countering the Cv" you keep talking absolute nonsense. So, as you can see, I'm willing to help you. Otherwise the scope and objective of this game is not to counter the Cv. The Cv is not the final, hard to kill monster, 'the boss', the final objective from PVE mobile games. Even if it carries as uncanny resemblance to those, testament to their "brilliant: implementation. We have other, more important objectives. Like having fun in the game. Well....that's how debates work. You present an argument, I thoroughly debunk that argument and you try to defend the argument. Of course all of that within... reason. As for your motivation....I'm not gonna speculate, even if I can see a good number of those, some being better than others. Otherwise... nope:). RNG is part of the game. Erm........you are thoroughly missing the point. Cv's represent and generate an incredible amount of division and toxicity within the game and the player base After all this years they are still not accepted. And Wedgie as a custodian of both the game and the player base does absolutely nothing to address the issue. In fact keeps doubling down on the idiocy. Coz reasons....all the while it is in their best interest to address it. So let me make it clear. Spotting begone and we meet at Compiègne , tho not Versailles. But no AWACS or some other reetardness. Otherwise.....just dodge, its fun right? Edit :Ah I almost forget....operations.... i can make the case against spotting just as effectively as against Cv's themselves. Even with videos if I have to. That is for personal reasons, tho not only. And I can see a LOT of other solutions and none of those requires much work Also actually it would be in Wedgie's best interest to solve the issue, so......I'm actually helping.

The problem is, as I said, that Wedgie could point to these.... "opinions" and claim whatever they see fit. Tho some credit have to be handed to them, at least they seem to be ... consistent.... ......even when directly contradicted......

Well.....the players themselves are not to blame for the flawed implementation of the class. However for defending the class with twisting logic... they kinda are to blame. There is not one single argument which can be made in the defense of the the class. Not by the devs and not by anybody. And while delivering devstrikes lolz, on da forum is kinda.... fun, I'm not after that. I want the problem which plagues this game for a loong time solved. I was waiting in expectation to see the result of the "testing" about spotting and what Wedgie does? Moar frakkin Cv's with even more frakkin reetarded mechanics...

Now out of respect for your thoughts, time and work sunk in the comment I will; respond to them, not just asserting a... "superior" argument and dismissing them outright. a) which is the very basis of a and every PvP and team game. Namely staying alive, as long as possible, in order to have the biggest impact on the course of the game. A sunk ship is relegated to port. Period. Yet Cv's manage to break even that on multiple levels. b), c) Erm .... that's......a bit wrong. Planes will regenerate over time, the Cv's ability to launch or to produce them is not impaired, like at all, when shooting one ship's turrets and torptubes is a valid tactic. Not to mention the fact that the Cv can at any time of his choosing disengage at will. Simply put this is a passive measure, not an active one, therefore it is not a counter. It is, however, a contribution. d)Damaging a Cv is irrelevant in terms of counter, for the aforementioned reasons. And again removing the cv is not a counter, but is contribution. in fact his planes can still fly attack and spot unimpeded by the loss of the host. e) That's a ....good point, however what I wrote above still applies. Also it should be noted that losing the Cv early is a strategic loss with both strategical and tactical consequences. in fact every early loss is, but losing the capability of recce is without any doubt is most and foremost a strategic one. Tho indeed has also tactical consequences. :) I will respond with a famous phrase: There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous man :) That being said Cv;s are without any doubt a strategic class which set them apart from all the other classes. And no removing the Cv will not render the removal the most influential unit, unless the team can fructify the advantage conferred by its removal. And this is still a tactical combat PvP game, not a strategy game with all the consequences deriving from it. Like fluid and continuously evolving tactical situation. That's why viewing this game as a board or chess game is fundamentally wrong. Still analyzing a played game from that perspective is a very good, personal tool. But that's it. The implementation of Cv's has a great many number of flaws, not just one

Well OP.....given the fact that discussions related to Cv's where until recently quite arguably actively censored.( for various reasons), you will not find polls on them.

a) You remember what ship I was playing, right? Her playstyle and where his torps are, right? b) Erm...no. On that map it is standard tactic to launch torps into the cap and to the edge of the island. I do it all the time. And my RPF indicated a presence so if any dd there could have been revealed by it. c) Torps are also area denial weapons. I launched into an area, not necessarily targeted. d) Well....arguably any torpless dd could be considered deadweight in ranked. e) This is, like I said countless times, a PvP game. I have no control over what other people do and play. Otherwise the replay was provided as evidence of me understanding how to play.....erm....."antiCv", lolz f) actually I'm pretty sure that he had problems or was distracted. He even gone afk. Btw he got reported. g) I know, but...PvP game and yadda yadda. h) And yet I got em, right? As the caps and ze planes right? i) Actually that's what I did. I prioritized. Keeping that Alsace alive and getting the Bismarck was pretty much crucial and we almost won, remember? An Ibuki at that range has no answer to a Bismarck but a dd will run from me. k) If I could have defended our Cv I would have. Btw he played well. m) Erm...I never pretended that he should do anything else. Otherwise a sunk player will not contribute to the match , right? I was busy surviving. n) And yet we got to get all three caps and to 880:980, right? Otherwise I was busy to try to win and I couldn't help the Alsace. o) Like I said this is a testament to both me understanding where, how and what to do "against" a Cv and he not being a very good Cv player. Erm... this replay wasn't meant to brag about...whatever. it was meant to specifically counter the argument that I, personally, don't know how to play ..."antiCv" which was repeatedly brought up, as an argument. Coz.... that's how debates are conducted. We don't pet our bellies or declare our "superiority" we back up our stances with reasons, reasonable arguments and facts. That's what arguing on merit is. No problem can be solved if it is not correctly assessed first and no problem can be correctly assessed, if the arguments both against and for are clouded by all sorts of artificial constructs. I repeat, this replay has no relevancy to/in the debate what Cv;s are. nor why they are... "broken"

Nope. All the vessels in this game are tactical units except Cv's. Cv's are a strategic class both by playstyle and capabilities. Tactical units/classes cannot counter strategic units/classes only other strategic units/classes can. The only real counter to Cv's would be parking a Halland within 5 km from the Cv. That would indeed counter his capabilities, otherwise nope. That's why a dd hunting a Cv is a strategic move and not a tactical one. Edit: tactical is localized and strategical is not. This whole game is a tactical shooter while Cv;s are a strategic class. While this is a game, it is a combat game, therefore combat theory applies 100%.Stop thinking in game terms and start thinking in combat terms. I will follow up with your analysis.

:) It is clear that you didn't watch the replay. The final score before the Alsace was sunk was 880:980 ( Im not sure about our points it was past 800 but ir could have been 840 or something) we got all three caps and a ship advantage. There is a reason why this was a 2000 BXP game. If we would have won it would have been a 4k game. And we almost did. I played for the win. As for the replay: it was provided for educational purposes and to make a point, namely that I know how to avoid plane attacks i.e i'm not the stereotypical:" idk what to do, plane muh bad" player which both our mates tried to repeatedly suggest, without any merit, whatsoever. Tbh that's why I was confrontational from the beginning. They pretty much presented their opinions as facts by arguing in the form of argument from authority, lolz. Kilinowski less then Bubba and he also tried to give some good advices.

Just to further make a point..... That is a 2000 BXP game. On a loss, tho we almost won .. And no those 60 planes weren't fighters and no DFAA So yeah, I absolutely can play the dodge game. I evaded 90 % of his ordnance. However that's not counter. And tbh I gathered those numbers partly because the Cv player wasn't that good. 20220412_042917_PJSC012-Ibuki-1944_19_OC_prey.wowsreplay You gave some good advices, however please don't conflate A with B. There are things what one can do. But counter is not one of them.

Just to make sure that we understand each other perfectly and crystal clear..... "Make no mistake, I consider spotting the most toxic 'feature" of Cv's but.....I'm not blind to the other problems what their implementation have.. For example, you said yourself that you are against learned helplessness. Now how can be justified that T4 Cv's can see T3 ships? To learn...what?". And the answer. CV Players learn how to attack ships. Ships learned how to deal with CVs. The idea that AA must kill all the planes to teach the dangers of assaulting an enemy position and getting hurt for doing so isn't a necessary correlation. Ships will shoot other ships, and planes will attack ships too. The is a combat game, and part of the game is surviving to take positions and make things happen for your team. I do know that some players will dislike being taken out of a battle by planes, but it takes a team to move mountains and some folks are going to fall in that effort. That's the nature of an attrition-style game. --- To a separate point, Tier 4 CVs were nerfed a while back and rather considerably. There may be a large number of new players trying out the CVs, but their threat is very non-threatening compared to their higher-tier family members. https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/249546-post-ex-de-facto-analysis-of-things-said-in-the-mfw-people-say-aa-is-useless-thread-by-nefariousraven/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-5658017 That is a NA CM. So yo, as you can see I'm not petting my belly or use crystal balls, lolz......

Fair enough. Tbh I'm not a fan of forum thingy's myself. I'd rather post about good stuff. Erm.. don't conflate fighting with countering, they are not the same thing. Otherwise you want me to quote myself where I made positive recommendations? On whichever server? Good one. :) :) That is a separate discussion, however objectively assessing and discussing the capabilities of a class has no personal component attached to it whatsoever. Zilch nada. I never claimed that I know everything about this game, not at least because this game is highly situational. However, like I said, objectively assessing the capabilities of a class, ergo its implementation, has no personal component attached to it, whatsoever. Zilch, nada. And you are again mistaken. I already know that there is not one single pro Cv argument, which cannot be thoroughly debunked. I'm not trying to "win" anything, much less an argument, lol. You can like playing Cv's and that's perfectly fine. But if you claim the class being anything else than what is, be prepared to be challenged with facts and objective arguments. Because misinformation and propaganda needs to be countered with the truth, facts and objective arguments. For years the" pro cv camp" run around claiming that A is somehow a B and Wedgie rightfully pointed to these kind of discussions as being "fought" between "haters and lovers", precluding both an objective look at the problem and also solving the issues.. I argue solely on merit. Still, you can absolutely have your opinion. I mean flat earthers have also an opinion, right?

U sure?:) So...teach me senpai. Ya know.......walk the walk. Otherwise, there is nothing better than low stats in the bait da monke game:) Unless you have a crystal ball that's horsesh#t. Not even bull. Try again. Everybody can get good games. However...... ......as you can see in the comment I know when I got things on merit.

Oh..... but I did. I just don't agree with what he is saying. Because being factually false. Ermm.....we could be a big happy family if Wedgie address the retardness in their implementation.

That's correct!! So how many more screens you want? Otherwise don't be afraid, just your arguments will be ripped apart

Nope. That's actually your false perception about me. Basically you petted your belly and declared something to fit your narrative. Lolz.... Lolz......I can't count the times when i played keep' em busy. Ya know what that is, right? Neptune is a very good ship for that, along with Ibuki. Not to mention Petro. However..... That is again false. Keep' em busy is not countering. Not today, not tomorrow. And nobody can play not even keep;em busy with a Cv, because the Cv can at any time of his choosing, disengage and look for more enticing targets. So yeah somebody definitively needs to broaden, quite a LOT just......not me. That is true. If there is a team.Or is the result of personal decision. Yo A is A not a B.

Yo I just played this game. 2500 BXp. Not like I handpicked the screen or somethin.....Just sayin....

Erm......that's false. Nobody can counter a cv. You can mitigate the damage you are taking and kinda help a bit your teammates. That's the max you can do all things equal. That is again false to a certain degree. Subs cannot be countered. however they can be sunk Tho it is getting harder and harder . Ranked being my main game mode i played against them in all of their iterations, including the very first testing on PTS. I still have the flag. A sub played by a competent player is impossible to counter. And a tough nut to crack..

Yo mate, anyone particular on your mind?:) Except that's exactly the argument which is frequently made in defence of Cv's., i.e they are not supposed to be helmed.....I mean sticked or somethin... by experts. Yo mate U wanna have a nice little chat with El2aZer?.He is as an expert on this matter as it can get, right? Just say the word if you wanna get your rounded bottom handed to you on a silver plate.. On the other hand I'm here if you are up to the task. I mean the result will be the same but....maybe less.....humiliating? Yo I hate to break down to you, but that;s exactly the reason why double Cv games exists at lower tiers. The poor Cv drivers need target practice on ships without AA. And I'm not kidding.

The other team had a significant point advantage by taking the caps early. I've seeing this more and more often, I had an insanely close call quite recently ( less then 10 s), it is the direct result of passive playing instilled by subs and/or Cv's/ DD's dying early .....

Erm........actually......You see that's way more complicated. You should ask why is this happening that is the interesting question.