NothingButTheRain

Well I hope people will continu to play carriers as I still need like 70 more plane kills for mission

Don't worry. I see where you're coming from. I don't agree with everything you say, but I have already met these AA fleets when bottom tier in my Ranger or Shokaku. There's not much I could do except trying to spot maybe. I believe that they do listen. But they choose to not listen to everybody and everything.

The gripe I have is that you can't prepare vs a DD as it's the DD that dictates the tempo of the engagement. Any option the BB player has, ends up being because the DD player made a mistake (or when more then just these 2 ships were involved). I was referring to DD and BB, not BB and BB.

Well you are an OM unicum. In this game you could probably even make a canoe work.

Well I have to disagree with you regarding the AA cruisers not needing an AA buff. because they did need an AA buff. Have you never seen a full HP wooster or DM get insta-deleted by a concentrated attack by an enemy t10 CV before the rework? Well I have and it wasn't pretty I'm not sure about HE bombs being such a damger to DDs, epsecially since HE bombs are hardere to aim compared to the rockets (or at least the rockets from before 8.0.3). I fully agree on your opinion regarding it being better to nerf CV power compared to nerfing CV fun gameplay. The patrol radius buff is only for tier 10 carriers iirc. The t6 ones are actually getting nerfed I think? I don't get why these lower tier carriers even needed more nerfs. But at least I can start grinding even more DD lines now

Well I get where your sentiment is coming from. Of course I never stated my opinion to be absolute facts. I wouldn't be able to make such claims anyway. It's not like I played 500 games in carriers since the rework, I merely voiced my opinion. And I think WG already has all the proof they need, regardless of whether they support my opinion or not.

I do understand why WG decided to execute the rework in the way that they did, but imho I think they are actually getting a bit more flak for it then they deserve (but I'd agree that this probably doesn't really win any beauty contests ). And the WG balancing department...welll lets just say stalingrad WG did get rid of the OP carriers we had before and high tier games have gotten substantially more fun thanks to this. I had planned to take a break after the last events had ended, but then I discovered DD gameplay in the new meta

I'd like to point out that as a DD player myself, there's still one other important spotting role which is of good benefit to the team. And that is spotting torps (but please spot them without catching any of them ). It may not be as glorious as putting 15 torps into the enemy camping fleet at J10, but it's still important and can help your team quite a lot. Or at least some players appeciate it. Remember that carrier planes can't spot torps anymore. And the carrier can't be everywhere at once. I think DD in a support role is still a very valid playstyle

Well frankly, I think the old RTS carriers were basically OP and unfun to play against. Any good CV player could literally delete any ship at will. ANY ship! And now that is gone and I hope the matches we used to have like "Ow god, my team got a n00b Ranger and they got a 3 div Saipan" are a thing of the past now. I don't think that DDs benefitted from the carrier rework as much as other classes have, but at least the usual cross dropping is gone now.

My claim is valid, since I stated: No matter how hard you try as bottom tier CV, you'll probably end up 12th spot in the list regardless of skill so a single screenshot will not devaluate it.

The tier 6 ones were fine, played and finally elited them when tiers 6 and 8 were rampant with carriers (often 2 carriers for each team. Even having 2 carriers each team where each team was 8 players or so instead of the usual 12 ). I haven't played my IJN torp boats since (except the occasional Narai), but that is more because I didn't want to wait with benson any longer as I've had Benson for ages. And it's fun!

True. But even if this is from after the first round of CV nerfs, it is rather moot because it's just a single screenshot of a single engagement.

Well, I agree with you for the large part. Definitely However I don't agree with the very first bit. You are technically correct but in practice it's not practical to switch ammo and wait for a reload when the DD can get unspotted literally within a second. Yes there's this skill but a decent DD player can disappear within 15 seconds EZ, even set a couple fires before holding fire and disappearing inside smoke or behind an island. Due to the DDs superior conceilment he can dictate the flow of any engagement with any BB (except for maybe stalingrad of course), so this 15 second wait with the skill is not much of a problem for any DD player...unless the DD driver has more torps then he got braincells

Well frankly, I actually enjoy playing my Benson a LOT lately. And it looks like it will become even more fun for me when playing DD But not as fun for me if I want to take out any of my carriers anymore. At least the yoloing 4xW aim-at-the-nearest-cap DD-only players were farmable...but not so much after the next coming change.

Imo the problem with playing CV atm is that they are inherently unfun to play now when bottom tiered. I don't mind a large amount of loss of planes as much, provided I at least can like, do something that's at least half useful. I remember trying to attack a tier 8 ship with Ranger planes. All 7k-ish hp evaporated even before I got a single attack in. And the way the handling is nerfed is imo much worse, as this makes carrier planes a lot more frustrating to play while the planes get shot out of the sky because AA is usually quite strong now. I don't mind needing actual skill to dodge flak bursts, but of course I also want my continuous damage to planes to be meaningful in some way. But at least make it fun to play.

Because a single screenshot ends up not proving much of anything. So it's kinda a moot point when trying to regard it as tangible evidence to support anyone's case. I've had a single good game with Shokaku after its initial nerf (95k or 85k damage done or so), but most games ended up being a waste of time for me. Well, this topic may turn into a giant flamefest. Lets see what happens next

Looks like playing even more DD sounds like a nice plan to me I'm gonna enjoy this

No evidence of when this screenshot was taken. There's no date, this could have been from before the rework even. Btw, DD income is just fine even before this latest CV nerf:

You mean the usual sole tier 8 cruiser in the tier 10 match right?

I think DD players that let them get shat on by a CV, deserve to be shitted on.

What a sheer coincidence! The very last replay I made on this forum was about this exact topic! This was my experience when playing Shokaku in tier 10 matches

I don't feel enticed to play them as they are now, mostly because of how useless it is to play them when you are bottom tier. The rocket planes were the only decent planes left when bottom tiered. And even in my Benson I can basically shred planes of all carriers except the tier 10 ones

I can't agree enough with what is voiced here, form what I've read so far. Shokaku in a tier 10 game means I might as well plot in an auto course into B, then throw away my mouse and do chores around the house for 20 minutes. It's not like I'll get better rewarded if I actually try to play the game. No matter how hard you try as bottom tier CV, you'll probably end up 12th spot in the list regardless of skill Looks like I can put my carriers into the freezer for good and start grinding even more DD lines.

Usually the Mino will have its AA damaged when the game is nearing completion and the CV player should have conserved planes, so he should be able to take care of a Mino that had more misplays due to letting himself get blapped by HE. And also a CV can basically run away and win on points. The CV can spot where the Mino is and avoid him and harrass him. And in the end the CV player might as well wonder why he let all his teammates die. And if it wasn't the CV player's fault that all his teammates went belly up, then the CV player can't blame himself for a loss anyway right? I mean, how is this different from when only a Shima remains on one team and a Yamato on the other?

true. The majority of DD-only players hate this rework. But the majority of that group consists of plebs and some very specific forumites who I have not forgotten their opinions on certain player classes. I'm merely returning them the favor and providing evidence of how OP DDs still are. The last thing DDs need are even more buffs, but it seems that it's all about dumbing down the game lately, iiuc. DDs already have the most carrying potential of all the classes...except maybe for carriers. Not only do they have no citadels, they can't even get any regular pens anymore except from a couple ships that are very easy to avoid. I typically don't get spotted by planes within 30 seconds as their search patterns are usually quite predictable. because they expect the enemy DDs to simply press W 4 times and aim at the nearest cap (which is what is the most common thing to see happening after the battlecounter reached 0). And after 30 seconds the vast majority of enemy ships can't even shoot you as you are still outside of their gun range. A DD player needs to play smart and most DD players simply can't. They expect to be able to yolo virtually unhindered by any competition, that's how 'casual' they are. This type of player also can't deal with things like radar and spotter planes. I'm also a casual gamer btw. I'm a member of a casual clan for a reason And btw I'm fine with WG buffing DDs even more. Go ahead WG plz buff DD! I'm pretty sure my stats will like this even more! At any rate, it's a win win situation for me, so in the end I don't really care what WG does. And me enjoying the game is what this game is all about, right?