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About Sissors

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    Able Seaman
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  1. z52 rant

    Stats wise Z-52 does fine, so it is kinda hard to argue with that, and I definately don't think it is a bad DD. But I did personally stop my 'grind' for it. Why? Its two main things to go for it when already owning a Gearing are its hydro and its torp reload. However with amount of radar, your hydro isn't as useful, and in addition it resulted in every DD sticking to the complete edge of the cap on his side. So on the bit larger caps, to be able to hydro the enemy DD you will have to push into the cap, at which point you are going to be radared even worse. Second issue for me are the torps: There is a reason lately I don't have to worry in a DD about being hit by Shima torps, since they all are using 20km torps again. Now while I am still sticking to 12km torps on my Shima, the 10.5km of a Z52 is a bit short in a radar heavy meta.
  2. Accelerated Torpedo Tube Reloading

    Indeed. Sometimes you sit broadside in smoke, die from torps, and you have no one to blame but yourself. Other times you sit properly in smoke, and just happened that two enemy DDs from different angles decided to torp your smoke, and there really is nowhere to run to. But also it just happens if you just start a turn that torps arrive from the worst possible angle and you cannot evade them. Even if you didn't just start a turn, some torps simply have so low detection that by the time you see them you can steer into them, and at that point it is just dumb luck if you will be hit or not. And finally try dodging the 10 torps I fire from 1-2km distance in DD fights. Regardless if you will be hit by the torps or not, knowing that you cannot be hit by Pan Asia torps is a huge advantage in DD fights.
  3. Tbh I don't understand why people take this so serious. In my opinion this is far better than toxic chat. It is just some ingame mechanics. I can't be the only one who has at least had the idea of launching torps or a full broadside on a potato who starts the game by turning around and running away for example. Or when the DD on your side on the two island map goes through center. And I would normally assume that a player with a TX ship knows basic game mechanics. Surely it cannot take that long to determine how you approach a cap? And while the DD is thinking about this the rest of the players can go AFK? Imo TX is a horrible place to start to learn how to play. The TX meta isn't that different from lower tiers, and as always top tier your team relies on you much more than the poor T8 target dummies going around.
  4. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    IIRC right after Arsenal was introduced and they realized suddenly every single radar cruiser had that module.
  5. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    Done. But why would you never say cooldown can be 3 minutes? Since it can be. Cooldown is only 2 minutes for premium radar. Which granted majority has, but definitely not base for any radar.
  6. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    It does not seem that way to me. He just writes that sitting at max range lobbing torps, which is what you yourself advice, is boring passive gameplay which is opposite to what a good DD player used to do. On a related note, T5 faces radar in matchmaking. With the recent handing out of free T7 radar ships it also isn't exactly a rare occurance. Difference is that those have limited duration. Sure a good player can dart in a bit more often, but in the end it comes down to keeping your distance. If you are 10 seconds radared it won't do crippling damage, but if you are within lets say 8km of a des moines hiding behind an island, and he enables radar, by the time you are running away their entire team is shooting at you. Sure you wiggle a bit, but in the end it is mainly hoping their team has bad aim. And just to reiterate: You yourself advice people to simply stay far away from the enemy. And you are not unique in that, thats also my advice. But you cannot advice this strategy and then claim that radar does not promote a passive playstyle. I did understand that first part, indeed missed that you also addressed that part to Capra. But again in that case: You yourself DID advice that you should sit at max range. I don't see how you can claim that no one said to sit at max range, when to quote your own topic start: So max DD range. Radar module should always be there sicne we got Arsenal. And are there really people who dont have premium radar equipped? So 1 minute active, 2 minute cooldown. But you can't be 100% sure he has radar module, so that gives some extra uncertainty when it goes on again. If in that window you manage to get within 6km of a Cleveland and torp him, you have my respects, but that is not going to be something I try. Any mistake will mean you get blown out of the water. And really, the assumption of only one radar cruiser is quite optimistic. Yesterday did one game in Gearing: Des Moines + Missouri were near the cap, such behind an island barely anyone could hit them. You are free to calculate how much time between radar was there. Oh and I kept going in after radar ended. And despite that I could hide partially behind islands, in the end that was only partial hiding and I got shot. Repeated about 4 times with me not achieving anything before they blew me up. High tier DD gameplay is always dangerous. Even without any radar, since then you will go closer to the enemy, increasing risk for more reward.
  7. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    Even more dangerous than a Kurfurst sitting at 25km from the fight with his spotter planes up? Well that is really living on the edge :P. Anyway maybe not the whole thread is a straw man, but this latest post certainly is. Where does he write he wants to be a torpedo boat running around with impunity? And he clearly explained what he meant by option 2, but I guess you accidentally forgot to quote those parts... Just to make it clear, by playing on the edge, do you mean that small edge between radar and torp range? I decided myself to stop going for the Z52, and switched instead to Russian DD line and continuing with pan asia towards the YueYang. Guess what the reason for that is? Hint: It starts with a "T", and ends with "orp range". It is imo a fact that playing around radar mainly means keeping your distance from the enemy. Hell, your own opening post specifically mention to stay at best at their extreme radar range, and definitely not go in closer. So yeah, imo sitting at 12km and lobbing torps at the enemy is passive gameplay. That used to be what the crappy DD players did, while the better ones tried to close on the opponent and launch from short range. Which brings us to the main issue with radar: There is no counter play to it. And no, staying at more than 12km of the enemy is not counter play. Thats like saying you should counter a Des Moines by staying at more than 15km from him. That is because it is a simple reveal all tool with no mechanics behind it. There is no hiding behind islands to stop the radar. Or a rotating radar, which to me still seems to be both realistic (if people care about that) and interesting. Where different ships could have for example also different rotation speed of the radar. Hell I would be okay with giving more BBs radar in that case, just a slowly rotating one. But currently as it is radar promotes passive gameplay. As you yourself write, stay at 10km-12km. That is for most DDs both their extreme torp and extreme firing range. And in for example a Gearing I'll be happy to hit a BB at that range, hitting one which is moving away is not even possible.
  8. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    Sorry but that is simply not true. The vast majority of the radar cruisers hide behind islands. Telling they are easy to deal with since they blindly rush into caps is just ridiculous. (Also most BB players are potatoes, I am simply not surprised anymore by players who start the game by turning around. I even have seen DDs do that). Your complete argument seems to be based around radar cruiser captains being incompetent. And sure, that is in general a reasonable argument, but you cannot claim them to be incompetent, and the BBs on your team to be competent. It is true that the US light cruiser hype is over, so the worst of it is gone. Still there are now more radar cruisers than before. Not really surprising, since which T8+ cruisers have been introduced lately? Maybe I am missing some, but I think it is new Cleveland, Seattle, Worchester, Salem and Krohnstadt. Surprisingly the Stalingrad does not seem to get radar? In addition at lower tiers now alot more people get an Indianapolis / Atlanta, although their radar is much more limitted. Still, alot more radar ships are now available, and if you pick a random cruiser, it is more likely to have radar.
  9. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    I deal with it, but as I said, I believe it makes gameplay more stagnant and boring. I also don't get why allowing pressuring the enemy DD would be dumbing down the game (which is perfectly well possible without so many radar cruisers, since then it takes at max 10 seconds to enter concealment instead of at minimum 30 seconds), while a single click all reveal in a flat out radius with no limitation would not be dumbing down the game. The only real advice I got is to stay at the absolute edge of cap, with at least your broadside to the enemy (since before their shells hit you you will be turned further), but preferably your rear to the enemy. The rest of it is treading the fine line between being suicidal and being useless. If you aren't going to cap until all radars are gone you are better of playing a different class (this is generic comment, there are always some DDs which play different). However for example last game a Moskva was going into the open right for the cap. I am stupid, but not suicidal (or the other way around), so then I do wait until he is forced back. (Turned out that the second radar cruiser was also in radar range of that cap, luckily he was spotted in time). If there are enough islands in the cap just rush right for the island and hide there. When the situation is hopeless, engine boost away and start long range torping. While I wouldn't go so far as advicing 20km torps on a Shima, I do understand why people pick them. In general I would advice against trying to bait radar. IMO the risk/reward of that action is not sufficient to make it worth it. Sure it is nice if late game they run out of radar, but lets first try to survive early game. And considering the time that capping takes, reasonable margins (also because you don't know if he has radar mod), and the reload time of radar consumable, I wouldn't advice people to do it. I am sure there are some who are succesfull with it, but I wouldn't advice random people to try it. So to simplify that comment: Stay outside radar range at (almost) all times. Now the good readers should have noticed I write here to stay out of radar range, and previously I said if you don't cap with a possible radar cruiser near you never get to capping. So situations where I would enter radar range is where mountains protect me, where I don't know where radar cruisers are (I am not going to hide until the position of every radar cruiser is known), or where there is simply nothing that can shoot me without being blasted away by the lemming train behind me. But thats also only because those caps are important. On a standard game just stay outside radar range as far as possible.
  10. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    Not going to deep is of course a good idea, but also an unrealistic idea. Especially Russian cruisers have such a huge radar range that they can easily radar entire caps with sufficient margin on many maps. The huge difference with a DD spotting is, is that you can stop it quite fast with smoke. Or if you get an island between you and the other DD the spotting is gone. The only thing which saves you from radar is range or time. Sure you can call it baiting radar, but in the end it is just making sure you are pointed in the correct direction and pray the RNG gods favor you. Saying you are baiting radar is like making a shitpost on a forum and afterwards claiming you were just trolling. Sure sometimes it really works like that, but normally you will get hurt. How badly you get hurt decides if it was worth it, but I call [edited] on that intentionally working often. I also still disagree with your statement that pressuring an enemy DD always was relying on luck. It wasn't luck when you had a reasonable GTFO plan. Hoping the radar cruiser isn't hiding behind an island where no one has vision is not a reasonable GTFO plan. Flanking around islands to spot them is, sorry for my words, [edited]. Sure you do that 10 minutes in the game, but if you do it on the start the enemy is 200 points ahead by the time you finally got vision around the island. Which probably brings you in the radar envelop of another cruiser. Are we playing the same game? It is quite normal to have an entire team lemming training on the 3 cap maps. The 2 cap maps (well where 2 are contested) it is more often a fairly equal split. And while radar cruisers might be the issue, they are not the solution. What you need are battleships to force enemy cruisers into hiding, where they still radar you through a mountain, but at least they can't hit you. Literally the third post in this topic... You yourself said if there are multiple radars at a cap (which is not every game, but a quite normal situation) you should avoid the cap, which I assume is intended to avoid the radars covering the cap. Anyway, in the end I suppose we end up at different play styles. But I am not going to rely on support, since too often it does not exist, and I am not gonna lemming train or AFK until the support arrives. Sure that isn't always because of lemming trains, often enough it is just because all BBs hide at the edge of the map. BBs who start by literally turning around and running away from the cap sadly don't surprise me anymore. And for example on Trap map at B half your team will be in such a position behind islands that they can't hit anything. In the end I can work around radar. The problem is I do that in general with the solution of staying at range. So lobbing long range torps into the enemy and praying someone gets hit by it. It is an option, but it surely isn't more fun than trying to sneak up on a BB and intentionally hitting him with torps.
  11. [How to:] Play around RADAR

    My first ever reply here, but just have to reply to this. As background, I main as DDs and think I am an acceptable player. (I am sure someone will bother searching my stats to burn me down :P). And while some things I common sense, other things I strongly disagree with. To start with a generic point towards the "radar is fine" crowd: Especially since the release of US light cruiser lines the number of radar ships went up. And while radar duration module itself is nerfed, everyone and his mother now has them on every ship which has a radar. Would you say that a year ago the game really lacked enough radar ships vs the DDs? If no, why do you think it is now then fine with a lot more radar ships? And sure, sometimes I have a TX game with 1 radar ship, but 4 enemy radars is pretty normal. Hell I have recently already 3 Missouris in opposing team (yeah yeah, at least that monstrosity is not sold anymore). Now to go through the points in random order, me roughly interpreting them: Know where which radar ships are with what range, and avoid them I fully agree it is really important to know the radar ranges (10km for US, 12km for USSR is close enough). But at the start you simply cannot know where the radar ships are. Even halfway the game often enough ships go unspotted for a long time. I know because I then get a ribbon for spotting them. And I can summarize on many maps the radar range of the enemy ships: The entire cap. In my opinion avoiding them is not an option, then you are just freely giving the caps to the enemy. Have a way out when entering the cap Agreed, but isn't it kinda obvious? Granted in the past (read: before US light cruisers) I often tried to pressure the enemy DD if I was in a reasonable gun DD. I don't do that anymore, because getting any further away from my team which is cowarding somewhere at the 1 line is not good for your health. But yeah in general make sure you can make the required turn to get out of the cap without running into an island, and make sure you are at least pointed halfway to your retreat vector. Make sure you have support And here is where I am disagreeing. If I am only going to cap when I got sufficient support I might as well stop playing this game. It is more useful to assume your team are idiots, and be pleasantly surprised if they aren't. It is useful to keep an eye on minimap what the lemmings on your team are doing (and tbh a weakness of my play, if I am busy shooting something I often miss that my team ran away to the A line). But if you are just gonna go lemming after your team you are as useless as the rest of your team. And sure, a DD is fastest class. But in the end you are barely faster than a cruiser, and also not that much faster than a high tier BB. By the time you arrive at that cap at the side everyone is lemminging to you don't have anything useful to add anymore. Better try to cap if you can, and by first sign of danger (probably when you get shot to crap) run away and start long range torping the enemy. Literally everything you can do is more useful than not just adding your DD to the lemming train, but adding your DD to the back of a lemming train. Just spot radar cruisers Radar cruisers hug islands like it is the only thing in the world who likes them (which is true). Normally you cannot spot them if they are not firing. Even if you can, the margin with for example spotting a Des Moines and its radar range is so small that you enter its range before you finish your turn which you started upon spotting him. If you end up in the situation where you can spot a radar cruiser hugging an island, you might as well just fill him with torps. And sure, spam F3 and maybe a BB on your team manages to delete him from 20km distance. Bait radar, because chances are there is only one radar cruiser at a given cap That is the kind of stuff which gets you killed. Assume every single radar cruiser of the enemy team is at that cap, since they probably are. And assume unless proven otherwise that that mino also has radar. Sure a mino can't do much vs a DD once it is running away, but his 11 lemming friends can. Don't cap in ships like a Shimakaza Why not? Now I freely admit majority of my DDs are hybrids, but I also got IJN line including Shima. But giving caps for free to the enemy is bad for your team chances of winning. Sure it is good for your survivability, but if you worry that much about it just start playing a Kurfurst which camps 25km from the enemy (serious what is it with top tier german BBs hiding further than even the other top tier BBs?). Lets face it, in which way is a Shima worse at capping than a Gearing? It has smaller detection. Its guns aren't horrible. Sure you aren't gonna win a gun fight vs a Gearing, but the 11 lemmings which hopefully followed you to your cap will do the shooting. You are just there to stop the capping process until the radar cruisers arrive. I suppose Shima has bit worse HP than Gearing, that is relevant, but he should be bit harder to hit from top of my head. So my TL;DR: Don't expect help from your team, and don't rely on it. If you leave everywhere without support you might as well stop playing as DD. Do have a way out, and keep your distance. And that is imo the worst part about radar. Sure in the end I don't die that often, but when I just got Gearing I hated the slower torp reload. Now I can put Fletcher torps on my Gearing, but I don't do it. Simply because by now the vast majority of torps I fire is from 10km+, getting close and being ninja spotted by enemy DD is one thing, I can smoke against it, but getting ninja radared means you get penetrated by a BB AP round for 10k damage.